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post #8161 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flax View Post
You'll find it here:
https://nadelectronics.com/dirac-live/
while NAD's suggestions for using it are here:
https://support.nadelectronics.com/h...34-Dirac-Setup
Could you shed any insight into NAD's reasoning for setting level/delay prior to running Dirac and not applying the RoomFeel curve to the subwoofer?
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post #8162 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 07:35 AM
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Dts:x
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post #8163 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
Update applied, can confirm DTS:X works (shows up in markus' iOS app as DTSXMasterAudio)
Please share your opinion on DTS Neural-X Upmix VS Dobly Surround Upmix when you had the chance to compare both
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post #8164 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 08:15 AM
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UPDATED !!!

So latest DTS-X FW is almost from perfect:
1. Now I’ve more hiss on the 4 Atmos speakers... I mean the hiss increases a lot with this release.
-> cannot confirm it was not the case before the release
2. DTS:X doesn’t work correctly, sound from TOP speakers is almost not present.
-> It actually works correctly (tested with DTS-X demo)

Neural-X seems OK, no bad impact on Dolby Atmos track.
Test done from my Vero 4K+.

I will test from Blu-ray UHD later.


Last edited by DavCap78; 04-16-2019 at 09:10 AM.
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post #8165 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
Please share your opinion on DTS Neural-X Upmix VS Dobly Surround Upmix when you had the chance to compare both
I’ve compared them before back when I had my Arcam, I prefer Dolby Surround
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post #8166 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 08:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavCap78 View Post
So latest DTS-X FW is far from perfect:
1. Now I’ve more hiss on the 4 Atmos speakers... I mean the hiss increases a lot with this release.
2. DTS:X doesn’t work correctly, sound from TOP speakers is almost not present.

Neural-X seems OK, no bad impact on Dolby Atmos track.
Test done from my Vero 4K+.

I will test from Blu-ray UHD later.

GRRRRRRRRR
There's always ONE person things don't work for.
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post #8167 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Parrotheads View Post
There's always ONE person things don't work for.
I hope you won’t be the second one
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post #8168 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
Could you shed any insight into NAD's reasoning for setting level/delay prior to running Dirac and not applying the RoomFeel curve to the subwoofer?
I'm not him, but I can maybe give you an idea for setting levels before running dirac. In my case, my speakers have quite a bit of difference in sensitivity, especially my front left and front right. When I first tried Dirac, I couldn't get the front left (and right) loud enough to be in the green when running Dirac, and keep the master volume low (-24). I increased the levels for front left and right in the set up by A LOT (say +6), lowered the levels of the rest of the speakers some (say -2). Then when I ran Dirac the levels were pretty close to ideal to keep it in the green and keep the master volume low (-24). When I went back to compare with and without Dirac, the levels were close, so it gave me a better comparison of the sound with and without Dirac.

As for not applying RoomFeel curve to the sub, they said that was because it may overdrive the sub in some peoples setups, so they don't recommend it. I believe Marcus recommended setting each speaker AND sub to the same curve though (which I did as well).

Just my experience. There may be a more technical reason though!

Darren
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post #8169 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 08:58 AM
 
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I hope you won’t be the second one

Works just fine here so nope won't be me. Be careful when you do it I'm betting you'll fail too.
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post #8170 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Parrotheads View Post
Works just fine here so nope won't be me. Be careful when you do it I'm betting you'll fail too.
I can now confirm it works correctly for me too(I did an unplug of my device but not sure it really helped).
I’ve updated my first post. Test with DTS-X demo shows that the FW is OK.
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post #8171 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 09:26 AM
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Do we now have all what NAD promised?

Well, 1 year 1 month and 1 week as I brought my AVR home!
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post #8172 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optoguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
Could you shed any insight into NAD's reasoning for setting level/delay prior to running Dirac and not applying the RoomFeel curve to the subwoofer?
As for not applying RoomFeel curve to the sub, they said that was because it may overdrive the sub in some peoples setups, so they don't recommend it. I believe Marcus recommended setting each speaker AND sub to the same curve though (which I did as well).
This never made sense to me - it's backwards. The sub can handle it - it was literally made to handle those frequencies. The MAIN speakers were not, unless you're running Revel Salon2s. If you apply your sub levels to your speakers, you'll be adding a HUGE boost below their F3 point.

You need to drop the level of your speakers below their F3 point or you're telling your amps to throw huge amounts of power at the wall of physics.

They need different curves - but they need to mesh together.

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post #8173 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optoguy View Post
I'm not him, but I can maybe give you an idea for setting levels before running dirac. In my case, my speakers have quite a bit of difference in sensitivity, especially my front left and front right. When I first tried Dirac, I couldn't get the front left (and right) loud enough to be in the green when running Dirac, and keep the master volume low (-24). I increased the levels for front left and right in the set up by A LOT (say +6), lowered the levels of the rest of the speakers some (say -2). Then when I ran Dirac the levels were pretty close to ideal to keep it in the green and keep the master volume low (-24). When I went back to compare with and without Dirac, the levels were close, so it gave me a better comparison of the sound with and without Dirac.

As for not applying RoomFeel curve to the sub, they said that was because it may overdrive the sub in some peoples setups, so they don't recommend it. I believe Marcus recommended setting each speaker AND sub to the same curve though (which I did as well).

Just my experience. There may be a more technical reason though!

Darren
Thanks. I am aware of all that. We have had other members question the NAD recommendation to set level/delay prior to running Dirac so I was hoping flax could give an official explanation.
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post #8174 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 09:48 AM
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I'm running a 5.1.2 speaker config and downloaded the update before heading to work, and didn't have a chance to test it.

Question: by default, will DTS:MA 5.1 or 7.1 tracks automatically upmix to DTS:X with the update, or is there a setting I need to change for that?
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post #8175 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by tebling View Post
I'm running a 5.1.2 speaker config and downloaded the update before heading to work, and didn't have a chance to test it.

Question: by default, will DTS:MA 5.1 or 7.1 tracks automatically upmix to DTS:X with the update, or is there a setting I need to change for that?

You need to enable DTS:Neural X to upmix DTS tracks. If you want to upmix DTS using DSU you need to output DTS as PCM
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post #8176 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
You need to enable DTS:Neural X to upmix DTS tracks. If you want to upmix DTS using DSU you need to output DTS as PCM
Ok, thanks! Just to confirm, by "enable DTS:Neural X", I'm assuming that's done by setting DTS -> Surround to "Neural X" in the Listening Mode setup menu.
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post #8177 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 11:33 AM
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I verified that NAD did not enable DolbySurround for DTS-MA in this release, even though Dolby hasn't forbidden that (just application of another upmixer to Dolby soundtracks, I believe). The Neural-X sounded good to me on a snipet of Spiderman Homecoming I threw on and I set it to default for all DTS soundtracks (because, why not?).

I'm extremely pleased with my latest Dirac 2.2 filter set, which is based on Jerry's 8db Harman curve. One thing that I noticed comparing target curves is that default and Roomfeel both target along an average around 0.0db, whereas Jerry's curves are designed to run lower, starting about +2.5 db for the boost and running down to -5.0 db for flat to 20kHz (I added an additional slope to -11db at 21.5kHz with corner at 1kHz). This ensures that the target curve rides below the dips in measured response and will provide a more accurate correction because there are no boosts for the suckouts. In my case, this has resulted in an extremely clean room sound with precise imaging and the preamp is running just under 0.0db gain for maximum volumes, which may be higher gain that typical, but with no adverse consequences that I can detect. I think I am done with sound at this point. I'm all the way there now. Booyah!

Also, I note that you can't drag a target curve up or down to change its center gain, which is something that Dirac should allow and what I am accustomed to using in Acourate. Seems like a big oversight.
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post #8178 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 12:02 PM
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DTSX demo??

Is there any DTS-X demo material links that people have so we can play files similar to the atmos demos??

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post #8179 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Is there any DTS-X demo material links that people have so we can play files similar to the atmos demos??
Just search for:  dts x demo download

Official well known demo:
- DTS:X Object Emulator
- DTS:X Out of the Box
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Last edited by DavCap78; 04-16-2019 at 12:14 PM.
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post #8180 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Is there any DTS-X demo material links that people have so we can play files similar to the atmos demos??
Just search for:  dts x demo download

Official well known demo:
- DTS:X Object Emulator
- DTS:X Out of the Box
I guess there aren’t 15-20 like the Amos then..,oh well

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post #8181 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Niles Crane View Post
I verified that NAD did not enable DolbySurround for DTS-MA in this release, even though Dolby hasn't forbidden that (just application of another upmixer to Dolby soundtracks, I believe). The Neural-X sounded good to me on a snipet of Spiderman Homecoming I threw on and I set it to default for all DTS soundtracks (because, why not?).

I'm extremely pleased with my latest Dirac 2.2 filter set, which is based on Jerry's 8db Harman curve. One thing that I noticed comparing target curves is that default and Roomfeel both target along an average around 0.0db, whereas Jerry's curves are designed to run lower, starting about +2.5 db for the boost and running down to -5.0 db for flat to 20kHz (I added an additional slope to -11db at 21.5kHz with corner at 1kHz). This ensures that the target curve rides below the dips in measured response and will provide a more accurate correction because there are no boosts for the suckouts. In my case, this has resulted in an extremely clean room sound with precise imaging and the preamp is running just under 0.0db gain for maximum volumes, which may be higher gain that typical, but with no adverse consequences that I can detect. I think I am done with sound at this point. I'm all the way there now. Booyah!

Also, I note that you can't drag a target curve up or down to change its center gain, which is something that Dirac should allow and what I am accustomed to using in Acourate. Seems like a big oversight.
I agree, and I just subtract from the values in the text file. Glad you're getting good sound.
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post #8182 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 02:23 PM
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Right setting for DTS X??

If I play a DTS blu ray and want to have the sound played in DTS X so my overheads are active is this the right setting to choose? (Pic is attatched below)

Sorry if this seems a basic question.
I don’t have any DTS X native discs so just want the DTS to go to overheads etc
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post #8183 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
If I play a DTS blu ray and want to have the sound played in DTS X so my overheads are active is this the right setting to choose? (Pic is attatched below)

Sorry if this seems a basic question.
I don’t have any DTS X native discs so just want the DTS to go to overheads etc

Yes what you've selected is correct, Neural:X is the only way to get DTS to natively upmix to the overheads on the NAD


If you want Dolby Surround to do it, you need to get your player to output DTS as PCM
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post #8184 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
If I play a DTS blu ray and want to have the sound played in DTS X so my overheads are active is this the right setting to choose? (Pic is attatched below)

Sorry if this seems a basic question.
I don’t have any DTS X native discs so just want the DTS to go to overheads etc

Yes what you've selected is correct, Neural:X is the only way to get DTS to natively upmix to the overheads on the NAD


If you want Dolby Surround to do it, you need to get your player to output DTS as PCM
I thought Dolby can’t upmix DTS??

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post #8185 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 03:18 PM
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I thought Dolby can’t upmix DTS??

Dolby can upmix whatever they want, it's just not technically in their spec so NAD haven't included it, hence why you force DTS as PCM, so you can upmix that using DSU


Dolby have said you're not allowed to apply 3rd party (ie: DTS:Neural X) to Dolby sources, which is why your only option there is Dolby Surround
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post #8186 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 06:42 PM
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Ran home for at lunch to dl dts:x. Threw in the Gladiator disc and watched for first battle scene. Sounds great! Although I think this disc lacks bass. I was using the Harman +6 boost and that's usually more bass than I want. I'm usually happy with Harman +4. But dts:x works just fine.

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post #8187 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 11:08 PM
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Can the update-file already be downloaded somewhere? I will never do the Wifi update again after bricking my first and brand new 758 V3.

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post #8188 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 11:09 PM
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Am I missing something very obvious or does the T758 V3 and its BluOS kit really don't offer Airplay support?


I've been using mine for a two months now and it's a fantastic device, with Dirac Live and Roon integration. However from time to time I find myself using apps and services which aren't officially supported by BluOS, like Soundcloud or Mixcloud. I'd love to have a convenient and universal way to stream any kind of audio from my iPhone or iPad to the T758 V3, but without Airplay I have to get back to my Mac to play music from these services or control anything, etc.


Admittedly I didn't check for Airplay support before buying the unit, and it's not a dealbreaker in light of more important features like Dirac Live, but it seems strange to offer a network- and streaming-enabled AVR in 2019 without Airpaly support. It feels short-sighted having to rely on the selection of services BluSound deems worthy of whitelisting.
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post #8189 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdsun View Post
Am I missing something very obvious or does the T758 V3 and its BluOS kit really don't offer Airplay support?


I've been using mine for a two months now and it's a fantastic device, with Dirac Live and Roon integration. However from time to time I find myself using apps and services which aren't officially supported by BluOS, like Soundcloud or Mixcloud. I'd love to have a convenient and universal way to stream any kind of audio from my iPhone or iPad to the T758 V3, but without Airplay I have to get back to my Mac to play music from these services or control anything, etc.


Admittedly I didn't check for Airplay support before buying the unit, and it's not a dealbreaker in light of more important features like Dirac Live, but it seems strange to offer a network- and streaming-enabled AVR in 2019 without Airpaly support. It feels short-sighted having to rely on the selection of services BluSound deems worthy of whitelisting.

Jepp, no Airplay support. This is also a major issue for me as I would like to avoid always using the Apple TV 4K when listening to music.

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post #8190 of 8906 Old 04-16-2019, 11:18 PM
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Jepp, no Airplay support. This is also a major issue for me as I would like to avoid always using the Apple TV 4K when listening to music.

It just seems strange - particularly since other BluOS devices support Airplay just fine. They even updated them to Airplay 2: https://support.bluos.net/hc/en-us/a...-Siri-are-Here

Surely, the T758 V3 isn't limited by its hardware capabilities, which would render the issue purely software-based...and even more baffling.
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