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post #9241 of 9944 Old 08-11-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by AVTimme View Post
This is the only time I'm a bit upset with Dirac. It obviously doesn't honor our target curves
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Except that when you do a room feel curve which is a form of ski ramp vs flat the bass is substantially stronger/louder then flat curve so I can’t see how it’s a problem. They sound very very different so it would not be the case if Dirac went ahead and lowered the sub setting after adding a room feel target
There is probably a threshold which we are clearly trying to push past. I suppose we just calibrate to 75 dB with sub gain at a reasonable level (half?), use a reasonably tilted target curve, then up the sub gain afterward.

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post #9242 of 9944 Old 08-11-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Why has this taken several years to be figured out? I'm at a loss.


The only issue is that, as often happened with Audyssey, increasing the subs left a stair-step down to the midbass. So make sure you have a rise from about 150Hz on down to meet your subs.
you now, I think this just started after the latest versions of Dirac. I didn't have this when I first got my and about 5 months ago


Hmmm I have ah rather high crossover to my mains at 130hz, maybe this can counter the effect of a to big step down to mid-bass?

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post #9243 of 9944 Old 08-11-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AVTimme View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Why has this taken several years to be figured out? I'm at a loss.


The only issue is that, as often happened with Audyssey, increasing the subs left a stair-step down to the midbass. So make sure you have a rise from about 150Hz on down to meet your subs.
you now, I think this just started after the latest versions of Dirac. I didn't have this when I first got my and about 5 months ago


Hmmm I have ah rather high crossover to my mains at 130hz, maybe this can counter the effect of a to big step down to mid-bass?
I just did a Dirac calibration a week ago and if this was a problem then I wouldn’t hear a huge bass boost with room feel vs my flat target-both of which were made at the same time. But I can clearly hear (and feel) a huge change in bass with the room feel target vs the flat...so not sure why this would be if there was a problem

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post #9244 of 9944 Old 08-11-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
There is probably a threshold which we are clearly trying to push past. I suppose we just calibrate to 75 dB with sub gain at a reasonable level (half?), use a reasonably tilted target curve, then up the sub gain afterward.
yes this is probably the way to go. I'll do this instead of using my crazy sky rocket bass curve

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post #9245 of 9944 Old 08-11-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I just did a Dirac calibration a week ago and if this was a problem then I wouldn’t hear a huge bass boost with room feel vs my flat target-both of which were made at the same time. But I can clearly hear (and feel) a huge change in bass with the room feel target vs the flat...so not sure why this would be if there was a problem
I do to hear a big bass boost when a bass heavy target curve is applied yes, but if I won't to boost my, there is a threshold where this isn't doing anything and Dirac just lover my sub trim and increase my mains trim level as soulburner pointed out

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post #9246 of 9944 Old 08-11-2019, 12:20 PM
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Guys, I need you to convince me that I have to buy this NAD and sell my Yamaha A2070 lol

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post #9247 of 9944 Old 08-11-2019, 12:46 PM
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Guys, I need you to convince me that I have to buy this NAD and sell my Yamaha A2070 lol
Looks like a modern and well-featured AVR.

If you're after Dirac, it may be worth it if you don't have other ways to EQ your system or you have a whacky room setup (always try to work on that first) that YPAO can't handle.

Otherwise looks like you wouldn't gain a lot. Didn't delve into the specs too far on the Yamaha, though.
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post #9248 of 9944 Old 08-12-2019, 04:39 AM
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Guys, I need you to convince me that I have to buy this NAD and sell my Yamaha A2070 lol
The sound that the NAD with Dirac delivers is amazing. My Marantz SR7012 before sounded dull and off compared to what I have now. I don't think you will be disappointed with this NAD. I think that you will love the sound, especially if you buy the full Dirac for 99 dollars
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post #9249 of 9944 Old 08-12-2019, 05:58 AM
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Hmm, maybe that is what is happening. I did the same - I wasn't getting nearly enough from the subs, so I implemented a sharp ski ramp, using all 10dB of allowed range. Even lowered the mains a few dB.

REW sweep still showed a mostly flat response.

At no point did Dirac tell me that it wasn't going to honor my curve. It even predicted the ramp would be there.

The takeaway would then be, Dirac does not strictly respect your target curve, at least when it comes to subs.

@Molon_Labe could this explain our bass troubles with Dirac?
I never took the time to sort things out with REW, but I do remember the bass being pretty anemic even with a ski slope house curve.
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post #9250 of 9944 Old 08-12-2019, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Hmm, maybe that is what is happening. I did the same - I wasn't getting nearly enough from the subs, so I implemented a sharp ski ramp, using all 10dB of allowed range. Even lowered the mains a few dB.

REW sweep still showed a mostly flat response.

At no point did Dirac tell me that it wasn't going to honor my curve. It even predicted the ramp would be there.

The takeaway would then be, Dirac does not strictly respect your target curve, at least when it comes to subs.

@Molon_Labe could this explain our bass troubles with Dirac?
I never took the time to sort things out with REW, but I do remember the bass being pretty anemic even with a ski slope house curve.
Have you tried room feel curve? Bass definetly doesn’t seem anemic with that
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post #9251 of 9944 Old 08-12-2019, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Have you tried room feel curve? Bass definetly doesn’t seem anemic with that
I am back with Dirac Live after a couple of years hiatus on the receiver/processor merry go round. I hope to have my current Dirac Live processor online sometime this week. I will post my findings on bass and will spend the time to cross reference REW measurements this time around.
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post #9252 of 9944 Old 08-12-2019, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I am back with Dirac Live after a couple of years hiatus on the receiver/processor merry go round. I hope to have my current Dirac Live processor online sometime this week. I will post my findings on bass and will spend the time to cross reference REW measurements this time around.


So you ditched the Onkyo REQ?


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post #9253 of 9944 Old 08-13-2019, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AVTimme View Post
you now, I think this just started after the latest versions of Dirac. I didn't have this when I first got my and about 5 months ago


Hmmm I have ah rather high crossover to my mains at 130hz, maybe this can counter the effect of a to big step down to mid-bass?
giving the room feel curve an honest shot now


edit: it is brighter than the Dirac stock curve but the sound is of course still amazing. I will soon adjust to the brighter sound

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post #9254 of 9944 Old 08-13-2019, 12:37 PM
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I think it is an excellent unit, and the inclusion of Dirac Live more than makes up for a lack of bells and whistles, most of which usually go unused anyway. Dirac Live will give you a very significant increase in perceived sound quality and is probably the most sophisticated room EQ system currently available, at anything like an affordable price. Combine that with Dolby Atmos and you will be in for a great experience IMO.
I'd have to agree. If I didn't have a Trinnov Altitude, an NAD solution with Dirac Live built-in would have been my ideal choice. Relatively proven brand, a high quality, mixed phase room EQ, and you'd be right up there in capturing the essence of the Dolby Atmos and DTS:X experience with 7.1.4. Not high end channel count, but like some other Lenbrook brands, punching above their weight. And it nicely pairs with M27 class D amps as well.
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post #9255 of 9944 Old 08-13-2019, 12:41 PM
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I'd have to agree. If I didn't have a Trinnov Altitude, an NAD solution with Dirac Live built-in would have been my ideal choice. Relatively proven brand, a high quality, mixed phase room EQ, and you'd be right up there in capturing the essence of the Dolby Atmos and DTS:X experience with 7.1.4. Not high end channel count, but like some other Lenbrook brands, punching above their weight. And it nicely pairs with M27 class D amps as well.
Wow er...comparing a nad to trinnov? Seriously? Tbh im looking to get rid of mine for a onkyo, totally underwhelming.

Hides from the nad police

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post #9256 of 9944 Old 08-13-2019, 12:54 PM
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giving the room feel curve an honest shot now


edit: it is brighter than the Dirac stock curve but the sound is of course still amazing. I will soon adjust to the brighter sound
I simply brought the highs down manually, like a tone control would.

In the future, we'll see if I even use full range correction once I have flat-measuring speakers. Depends what I think of the overall sound.

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post #9257 of 9944 Old 08-13-2019, 01:50 PM
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Wow er...comparing a nad to trinnov? Seriously? Tbh im looking to get rid of mine for a onkyo, totally underwhelming.

Hides from the nad police
Not really comparing an NAD to Trinnov , as the Altitude is in a class by itself for its feature set, if you want it and can justify at least the Altitude 16 price point. My point is that outside of that, an NAD with built-in Dirac and Atmos/DTS:X supercedes or no worse equals what you can get from D&M (other than the flagship that can now do 7.1.6 or 9.1.4, but uses minimum phase Audyssey XT32), Yamaha or Onkyo for room EQ, immersive audio/upmixing and basic functionality with HDMI sources.

There's a few processors that have higher channel count competitive with NAD, but Emotiva's RMC-1 is still a work in progress with bugginess and odd quirks (see the audible DSP chirp), StormAudio's native 9.1.6 Elite ISP is closer to Altitude 16 pricing than NAD, and the Monoprice pre/pro is still not in the hands of consumers. Pricewise it's a bit less than a Lyngdorf with RoomPerfect. So at least in my opinion, a fully featured 758 is a reasonable value for the money and makes using Dirac Live with a 7.1.4 system much easier as it's built into the pre/pro; no need for multiple MiniDSP 88As or only EQing the mains. For what that's worth.
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post #9258 of 9944 Old 08-13-2019, 02:04 PM
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I have my NAD 758 v3 streaming movies and programs directly off the likes of Hulu and Vudu. It always says it's decoding as 'PCM' - is this correct? Shouldn't it be saying Dolby xxxx ?? It's currently only a 5.x system. Atmos is being installed in next week or so.... I certainly hope it starts saying "atomos" then.


But PCM for 5.x ?? Is that best? My old Denon X4100w would typically say Dolby Digitial + or something similar.
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Have you tried room feel curve? Bass definetly doesn’t seem anemic with that
What is room feel curve? I'm familiar with 'ski slope' curve. Not room feel. Is it somewhere in the settings or a certain curve you have to EQ for?
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post #9260 of 9944 Old 08-13-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
I have my NAD 758 v3 streaming movies and programs directly off the likes of Hulu and Vudu. It always says it's decoding as 'PCM' - is this correct? Shouldn't it be saying Dolby xxxx ?? It's currently only a 5.x system. Atmos is being installed in next week or so.... I certainly hope it starts saying "atomos" then.


But PCM for 5.x ?? Is that best? My old Denon X4100w would typically say Dolby Digitial + or something similar.

Sounds like your playback device is outputting as PCM (not bitstream) if that's what the NAD is seeing
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post #9261 of 9944 Old 08-13-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
I have my NAD 758 v3 streaming movies and programs directly off the likes of Hulu and Vudu. It always says it's decoding as 'PCM' - is this correct? Shouldn't it be saying Dolby xxxx ?? It's currently only a 5.x system. Atmos is being installed in next week or so.... I certainly hope it starts saying "atomos" then.


But PCM for 5.x ?? Is that best? My old Denon X4100w would typically say Dolby Digitial + or something similar.

Are you saying streaming directly off the TV apps here? If so, that could be your issue. In my case my Panasonic TV, even when it is set to output bitstream, when I used to use the netflix app directly off the TV I could not get 5.1 from it and it would always output in PCM.

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post #9262 of 9944 Old 08-13-2019, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Have you tried room feel curve? Bass definetly doesn’️t seem anemic with that
What is room feel curve? I'm familiar with 'ski slope' curve. Not room feel. Is it somewhere in the settings or a certain curve you have to EQ for?
Room feel is a target curve that can be applied after a Dirac session and saved to 1 or 3 preset slots on the NAD

It actually isn’t bright at all-quite the opposite in-fact. It boosts the dBs at the low end only to make better bass and low freq vs flat Dirac house curve

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post #9263 of 9944 Old 08-13-2019, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Not really comparing an NAD to Trinnov , as the Altitude is in a class by itself for its feature set, if you want it and can justify at least the Altitude 16 price point. My point is that outside of that, an NAD with built-in Dirac and Atmos/DTS:X supercedes or no worse equals what you can get from D&M (other than the flagship that can now do 7.1.6 or 9.1.4, but uses minimum phase Audyssey XT32), Yamaha or Onkyo for room EQ, immersive audio/upmixing and basic functionality with HDMI sources.

There's a few processors that have higher channel count competitive with NAD, but Emotiva's RMC-1 is still a work in progress with bugginess and odd quirks (see the audible DSP chirp), StormAudio's native 9.1.6 Elite ISP is closer to Altitude 16 pricing than NAD, and the Monoprice pre/pro is still not in the hands of consumers. Pricewise it's a bit less than a Lyngdorf with RoomPerfect. So at least in my opinion, a fully featured 758 is a reasonable value for the money and makes using Dirac Live with a 7.1.4 system much easier as it's built into the pre/pro; no need for multiple MiniDSP 88As or only EQing the mains. For what that's worth.
Fair comment, thank you.
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Just plugged mine in and encountered several issues

Hi all.

Just wired up my T 758 v3 and immediately found some issues. In order of occurrence:

1. The remote's Enter button doesn't work correctly in the OSD menus. It appears to be confused with the "down" directional control.

2. The Wi-Fi dongle isn't working. The HUB shows that it has power, but there's no "VM130-xxxx" SSID being broadcast. I'm standing directly over the receiver with an iPad.

3. I downloaded what appear to be firmware updates for the receiver and BluOS, but there are no instructions for either. The receiver update appears to be a Windows executable, which is perplexing.

Anybody have experience with any of these? Thanks!
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post #9265 of 9944 Old 08-14-2019, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Stokestack View Post
Hi all.

Just wired up my T 758 v3 and immediately found some issues. In order of occurrence:

1. The remote's Enter button doesn't work correctly in the OSD menus. It appears to be confused with the "down" directional control.

2. The Wi-Fi dongle isn't working. The HUB shows that it has power, but there's no "VM130-xxxx" SSID being broadcast. I'm standing directly over the receiver with an iPad.

3. I downloaded what appear to be firmware updates for the receiver and BluOS, but there are no instructions for either. The receiver update appears to be a Windows executable, which is perplexing.

Anybody have experience with any of these? Thanks!

1) This is expected behaviour, press 'Right' to enter a menu


2) Have you tried a factory reset?


3) Guessing you don't have Windows? It's probably the RS232 utility
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post #9266 of 9944 Old 08-14-2019, 04:01 AM
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Thanks for the reply.

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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
1) This is expected behaviour, press 'Right' to enter a menu
I would never expect that; I have never seen any menu system on any device where "Enter" mimicked an arbitrary directional control and didn't select the highlighted item or enter a submenu. It's even dumber when you consider that Right actually does what you'd expect. Why doesn't Enter = Right, then, instead of Down?

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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
2) Have you tried a factory reset?
No, since I just took it out of the box. I can see the Bluetooth module from my computer, though, so I know the USB hub is powering that at least. I also plugged the Wi-Fi dongle directly into the receiver's USB port without the hub, and no dice. I'll look for the reset function as you suggest.

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Originally Posted by richardsim7 View Post
3) Guessing you don't have Windows? It's probably the RS232 utility
I can run Windows in a virtual machine. The download is called "TXX7 / T758 Firmware 2.13," but again there's no explanation on the page or in a text file.

Last edited by Stokestack; 08-14-2019 at 04:05 AM.
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post #9267 of 9944 Old 08-14-2019, 06:19 AM
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Thanks for the reply.



I would never expect that; I have never seen any menu system on any device where "Enter" mimicked an arbitrary directional control and didn't select the highlighted item or enter a submenu. It's even dumber when you consider that Right actually does what you'd expect. Why doesn't Enter = Right, then, instead of Down?
It's clunky IMO. I find myself getting stuck often.
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post #9268 of 9944 Old 08-14-2019, 08:09 AM
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What do you find underwhelming? I am an Onkyo fan and owner, but I have always found NAD to provide solid product offerings.
It just doesnt excite me.
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post #9269 of 9944 Old 08-14-2019, 08:18 AM
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It just doesnt excite me.
Have you considerd tapping party streamers and balloons to it? Maybe some flashing LED lighting ...
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post #9270 of 9944 Old 08-14-2019, 09:46 AM
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Wow er...comparing a nad to trinnov? Seriously? Tbh im looking to get rid of mine for a onkyo, totally underwhelming.



Hides from the nad police

You prefer Onkyo, which is below D/M/Y, to the NAD, which is above the 3 good Japanese’s?

The more I read this thread, the more confused I am about changing my Yamaha for a NAD. Sometimes I read the NAD is even better than Anthem 720 (which I am also considering), sometimes I read it is “equal no worse” than Denon/Marantz or even Onkyo
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