NAD 758 v3 - Page 313 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 6291Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #9361 of 9890 Old 08-20-2019, 08:30 AM
Senior Member
 
xhattan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 335
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post
Xhattan, thanks for your response. I should mention that the Onkyo and Integra won't be in the equation. Also the NAD has coax outs but
they are analog. The Meridians are digital only.

In hindsight, I should have asked for opinions on the Outlaw for LCR and the 758 for everything else.
You can only use the NAD for 2 Atmos speakers. So, the Outlaw would also have to take the other two Atmos speakers along with the fronts and center.


And NAD only has RCA outputs, which puts the Meridians out of the equation for surrounds or surrounds back.
xhattan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #9362 of 9890 Old 08-20-2019, 03:17 PM
Newbie
 
adrianr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
I'm streaming everything off a an Apple 4K TV device that is connected directly to NAD. I was told that Apple 4K would decode the dolby stuff. But every single thing I watch - the sound comes up on NAD as PCM. And I'd definitely selecting the VUDU content that is HDX/Ultra or whatever.


I even tried the Atmos 4 pack trailer on VUDU, which I now from past experience will say 'Dolby Atmos' …. and nope, just says PCM on NAD.
Hi, I think your problem is that you have your Apple TV set to decode the audio. Therefore your Apple TV is sending multi-channel un-encoded audio to the NAD in the PCM format. It should give you Atmos sound field effects but most likely the DACs and processing of the NAD are superior to the Apple's.

My understanding is that you want the NAD to do the decoding, even if only so that you can see the codec being received displayed on the NAD. I have never used an Apple TV, but the solution should be simple - turn off Atmos decoding in it's set-up menu, so that the Atmos/Dolby/DTS data is sent direct to the NAD to be processed there.
DaveyMac likes this.
adrianr is offline  
post #9363 of 9890 Old 08-20-2019, 03:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
DaveyMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 664 Post(s)
Liked: 143
I'm really suffering with how the Audio format is reading on front of NAD.

Is PCM SURROUND the best audio format you can get the NAD 758 to show on it's display?

I did some testing last night , my set up is Apple 4K TV hooked directly to NAD. After research, apparently the ATV4 does the decoding. I absolutely verified I have the ATV4 on correct setting of "Atmos" - yet when I stream any content that I know has Atmos (like Vudu Atmos trailer)….. it only reads on my NAD as "PCM Surround - 3/2.1 48K"

I really am not impressed with this. It should say Atmos right?

I then went into my Samsung 4K players 'smart apps' and played the Vudu Atmos trailer and when doing that (not using ATV4) - then the NAD would read "Dolby Digital + - 3/4.1 48K"
DaveyMac is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #9364 of 9890 Old 08-20-2019, 03:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
DaveyMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 664 Post(s)
Liked: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianr View Post
Hi, I think your problem is that you have your Apple TV set to decode the audio. Therefore your Apple TV is sending multi-channel un-encoded audio to the NAD in the PCM format. It should give you Atmos sound field effects but most likely the DACs and processing of the NAD are superior to the Apple's.

My understanding is that you want the NAD to do the decoding, even if only so that you can see the codec being received displayed on the NAD. I have never used an Apple TV, but the solution should be simple - turn off Atmos decoding in it's set-up menu, so that the Atmos/Dolby/DTS data is sent direct to the NAD to be processed there.
I literally posted a follow up on this issue at same time you replied with this. I think that the ATV4K decoding is indeed the challenge. But I also don't think you can simply turn it off. I believe you can only select for it to decode Dolby.
DaveyMac is offline  
post #9365 of 9890 Old 08-20-2019, 03:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
DaveyMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 664 Post(s)
Liked: 143
Sorry for thread spam, but I found this on Apple site finally
About Apple TV’s “Best Quality Available” setting.
With “Best Quality Available” selected in the Apple TV Surround Sound audio settings, be aware your receiver may not display the text “Dolby Digital” on the front like it might when hooked up to a Blu-Ray player or game console, or even an older model Apple TV 2 or 3 (see image above). This is perfectly normal, and is because the Apple TV models 4 and 4K decode the Dolby Digital signal on board the Apple TV itself and then sends raw PCM format audio downstream to the receiver. With the Apple TV audio settings on “Dolby Digital” option, the Apple TV decodes the Dolby signal on board, and then re-encodes the signal to Dolby Digital AC3 audio for compatibility with older receiver models. In this case, the receiver will indeed say “Dolby Digital.” However, due to the re-encoding process to the lower-quality AC3 format audio (as opposed to Dolby Digital Plus E-AC3 format), it is recommended you choose the “Best Quality Available” setting mentioned in Step 1.
I interpret the above to mean that PCM Surround indicates the best audio setting when using Apple 4K TV with NAD 758 V3 ?? And I definitely should not be turning off Atmos/'Best Quality Available' setting at ATV4K. Let me know if my thinking is flawed.
DaveyMac is offline  
post #9366 of 9890 Old 08-20-2019, 03:58 PM
Member
 
pixelknave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
…And I definitely should not be turning off Atmos/'Best Quality Available' setting at ATV4K. Let me know if my thinking is flawed.
You're absolutely right…here's their latest knowledge base article about it:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204069

TL;DR: Make sure "Convert Format" is off, and let the Apple TV detect what your hardware supports (you'll want to plug your Apple TV directly into the NAD so the handshake doesn't get scrambled by a switch etc.). This should lead the Apple TV's "Audio Format" to show "Auto, Atmos Available" if everything's set up correctly.

Any Dolby Digital content will be decoded by the Apple TV (this is basically just decompression, so the resulting PCM waveform is no different than you'd get if the NAD was decoding the Dolby Digital), and the resulting LPCM is sent losslessly to the NAD DAC to process and play. So you won't get the Dolby light on the NAD, but you're not missing out on any quality.

Atmos is handled slightly differently…Apple TV still decodes the audio to PCM, but sends that PCM wrapped up with the original Atmos metadata in a MAT container. This should show as "Dolby Atmos" on your NAD, and you'll get the appropriate object-based Atmos effects and immersive presentation.
adrianr, pixphipau and richardsim7 like this.
pixelknave is offline  
post #9367 of 9890 Old 08-20-2019, 04:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,882
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1623
I wasn't getting surround sound the other night. For some reason, my only two options for sound modes were "Stereo Downmix" and "Direct". In my opinion these are both wrong, however "Direct" gave me my surrounds. Is this normal?

Movie was Great Wall, player is a PS4.
Soulburner is online now  
post #9368 of 9890 Old 08-20-2019, 10:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,119
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1823 Post(s)
Liked: 1872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I wasn't getting surround sound the other night. For some reason, my only two options for sound modes were "Stereo Downmix" and "Direct". In my opinion these are both wrong, however "Direct" gave me my surrounds. Is this normal?

Movie was Great Wall, player is a PS4.

What was the source format? DD 5.1? It sounds like it.

Stereo Downmix would convert it to 2 channel. Direct would pass it through unaltered and it would play in 5.1.
zeus33 is offline  
post #9369 of 9890 Old 08-21-2019, 05:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,882
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1623
It's a Dolby Atmos movie, actually, though I only have side surrounds at the moment. This is a Blu-ray disc.
Soulburner is online now  
post #9370 of 9890 Old 08-21-2019, 09:27 AM
Newbie
 
adrianr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelknave View Post
You're absolutely right…here's their latest knowledge base article about it:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204069

TL;DR: Make sure "Convert Format" is off, and let the Apple TV detect what your hardware supports (you'll want to plug your Apple TV directly into the NAD so the handshake doesn't get scrambled by a switch etc.). This should lead the Apple TV's "Audio Format" to show "Auto, Atmos Available" if everything's set up correctly.

Any Dolby Digital content will be decoded by the Apple TV (this is basically just decompression, so the resulting PCM waveform is no different than you'd get if the NAD was decoding the Dolby Digital), and the resulting LPCM is sent losslessly to the NAD DAC to process and play. So you won't get the Dolby light on the NAD, but you're not missing out on any quality.

Atmos is handled slightly differently…Apple TV still decodes the audio to PCM, but sends that PCM wrapped up with the original Atmos metadata in a MAT container. This should show as "Dolby Atmos" on your NAD, and you'll get the appropriate object-based Atmos effects and immersive presentation.
A good, very clear, response - better than mine! I also found that Apple page when searching later, as well as some user forums with people seen complaining that Apple had disabled audio passthrough via HDMI sometime in 2018, and a very low-key campaign requesting the choice to be reversed. Bizarre that Apple should not permit passthrough but in my experience that is typical of their approach - they know better than the user what the user wants! I also note that the only user guide for the TV 4k is really useless in researching the topic and settings options - shows that there are options to choose from but doesn't list each of the choices that will be available for each item, so I could not confirm that passthrough was not buried in there somewhere. As you write, the end result for Atmos output by the NAD should not be different, though. Personally I recommend selling the Apple TV and using a Shield TV instead - more to fiddle with but you can definitely get what you want from it:-)
adrianr is offline  
post #9371 of 9890 Old 08-21-2019, 10:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
Patrick Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SW, Fl. USA
Posts: 637
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhattan View Post
You can only use the NAD for 2 Atmos speakers. So, the Outlaw would also have to take the other two Atmos speakers along with the fronts and center.


And NAD only has RCA outputs, which puts the Meridians out of the equation for surrounds or surrounds back.
Since I don't have the NAD, I was unaware of the 2 powered Atmos speakers limitation. As to the Meridians, they'll remain in the den.

Patrick
Patrick Collins is offline  
post #9372 of 9890 Old 08-21-2019, 11:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,119
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1823 Post(s)
Liked: 1872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
It's a Dolby Atmos movie, actually, though I only have side surrounds at the moment. This is a Blu-ray disc.

OK, it sounds like this is what's going on:


Since you don't have Atmos speakers set up yet, the NAD will recognize that and it will play the Dolby TrueHD track. If you have a 5.1 setup, then the "Direct" option makes sense. There are no extra speakers for "Dolby Surround" to utilize, so "Stereo Downmix" would be the only other option for sound.

How do you have your NAD display configured? I set mine to show the source format on the top line and the output format on the lower line. When I watch Atmos material, it shows:

Atmos
Direct

In your situation, it would show:

Dolby TrueHD
Direct

From Dolby's site:

While Dolby Atmos and Dolby TrueHD are two separate soundtrack formats, Atmos data on Ultra HD Blu-ray is actually an extension to TrueHD that is folded into the bitstream to maintain backwards compatibility. Here’s how that works: If you play a disc with an Atmos soundtrack, the Atmos extension data is decoded by an Atmos-compatible receiver. If your receiver isn’t Atmos compatible, the extension data is ignored and the soundtrack is decoded as regular Dolby TrueHD.
zeus33 is offline  
post #9373 of 9890 Old 08-21-2019, 07:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,882
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1623
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
OK, it sounds like this is what's going on:


Since you don't have Atmos speakers set up yet, the NAD will recognize that and it will play the Dolby TrueHD track. If you have a 5.1 setup, then the "Direct" option makes sense. There are no extra speakers for "Dolby Surround" to utilize, so "Stereo Downmix" would be the only other option for sound.

How do you have your NAD display configured? I set mine to show the source format on the top line and the output format on the lower line. When I watch Atmos material, it shows:

Atmos
Direct

In your situation, it would show:

Dolby TrueHD
Direct

From Dolby's site:

While Dolby Atmos and Dolby TrueHD are two separate soundtrack formats, Atmos data on Ultra HD Blu-ray is actually an extension to TrueHD that is folded into the bitstream to maintain backwards compatibility. Here’s how that works: If you play a disc with an Atmos soundtrack, the Atmos extension data is decoded by an Atmos-compatible receiver. If your receiver isn’t Atmos compatible, the extension data is ignored and the soundtrack is decoded as regular Dolby TrueHD.
Thanks. I am not used to this as my Denons worked differently.

I played around with things a bit more. I found the PS4 was sending Linear PCM, so I changed it to Bitstream. It's really not a problem, other than you don't get a display of your codec (unless you hit Info on the PS4 remote). I suppose it doesn't matter whether the PS4 or the NAD does the decoding.

I also set the display to show the source format and the audio codec. I only need the "surround mode" to display when the button is pressed as a temp line.

So now I see:

Dolby TrueHD
3/4.1 48 kHz

So what you say sounds correct. But what's the "3" signify?

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is online now  
post #9374 of 9890 Old 08-21-2019, 08:42 PM
Senior Member
 
sb01gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
So now I see:

Dolby TrueHD
3/4.1 48 kHz

So what you say sounds correct. But what's the "3" signify?

3 front, 4 surround, 1 sub
Soulburner likes this.

Panasonic EZ1000 65" OLED / Panasonic DMP UB400 / NAD T758v3 / Nvidia Shield TV
5.1.2 speaker setup - KEF R300 / R600c / Q50a / Focal Chorus SR800V / HSU ULS-15 mk2
sb01gt is offline  
post #9375 of 9890 Old 08-22-2019, 12:23 AM
Member
 
ajaxmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ajax (Toronto) Canada
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 16
What DAC does this unit use?
SpeedDemon likes this.
ajaxmike is offline  
post #9376 of 9890 Old 08-22-2019, 01:10 PM
Member
 
Mickeyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeriko View Post
How to choose calibration file!
thanks for your help. I got everything to work. Belatedly yours.
Mickeyboy is offline  
post #9377 of 9890 Old 08-22-2019, 01:12 PM
Member
 
Mickeyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
It's in the Dirac installation directory. In version 1, it would open a window and allow you to click on it.

I haven't done a V2 calibration yet.
thanks for your helpful input. Got everything to work.
Mickeyboy is offline  
post #9378 of 9890 Old 08-22-2019, 01:31 PM
Member
 
Mickeyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I wonder how 5.1 or 5.0 SACD input into a T758 with Dirac and Dolby surround enabled. More specifically when the setup is 8.0. I output bitstream from an Oppo 103 via hdmi to the T758. There is output from the rear and height speakers, which lcerly must be synthesized. But what about the 5.1 and 5.0 channels? Will the output be synthesized or as on the SACD?

TIA for any enlightenment.
Mickeyboy is offline  
post #9379 of 9890 Old 08-22-2019, 05:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,882
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickeyboy View Post
thanks for your helpful input. Got everything to work.
If anyone needs to know, it's:

C:\Users\%username%\AppData\Roaming\Dirac\OEM\NAD

On a Windows Vista or later system.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is online now  
post #9380 of 9890 Old 08-23-2019, 09:52 AM
Member
 
NoFuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFuzz View Post
OK, here is something odd again.

Can somebody with Tidal (and a NAD T758v3) play Jesca Hoop - Free of the Feeling?
Around 2:00 and a few seconds the background choir sets in. I hear distortion which I don't hear on my headphones. I hear it on multiple speakers, different cables...

In my home studio I don't hear it (playing same track from Tidal, on Windows PC, with tannoy monitors).

I hear it in some other tracks too, but in this one it's most prominent.
Did anybody try this? I'm really curious because I bought another T758v3 to compare (actually, to return "#2" and not be "between AVR's") and this one shows the exact same problem (funny is, this one has a lower serial number).

Checked other speakersets: nope

Tried external power amp: nope

Tried different speakercabling : nope

Current firmware versions:
MCU : v2.13
DSP : v1.16
Video: v1.09
BluOS : 3.4.20

Downgraded to BluOS 3.4.13 but to no avail.
NoFuzz is offline  
post #9381 of 9890 Old 08-23-2019, 10:12 AM
Advanced Member
 
SpeedDemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFuzz View Post
Did anybody try this? I'm really curious because I bought another T758v3 to compare (actually, to return "#2" and not be "between AVR's") and this one shows the exact same problem (funny is, this one has a lower serial number).



Checked other speakersets: nope



Tried external power amp: nope



Tried different speakercabling : nope



Current firmware versions:

MCU : v2.13

DSP : v1.16

Video: v1.09

BluOS : 3.4.20



Downgraded to BluOS 3.4.13 but to no avail.
Is it an MQA track?
Are you playing from Roon or BluOS app?
I’ve ran into this before on my C658 and it was because of how I had the MQA settings configured.
NoFuzz likes this.

--
Spoiler!
SpeedDemon is offline  
post #9382 of 9890 Old 08-23-2019, 11:27 AM
Member
 
NoFuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedDemon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFuzz View Post
Did anybody try this? I'm really curious because I bought another T758v3 to compare (actually, to return "#2" and not be "between AVR's") and this one shows the exact same problem (funny is, this one has a lower serial number).



Checked other speakersets: nope



Tried external power amp: nope



Tried different speakercabling : nope



Current firmware versions:

MCU : v2.13

DSP : v1.16

Video: v1.09

BluOS : 3.4.20



Downgraded to BluOS 3.4.13 but to no avail.
Is it an MQA track?
Are you playing from Roon or BluOS app?
I’️ve ran into this before on my C658 and it was because of how I had the MQA settings configured.
BluOS

It happens only with 44k tracks, not higher res ones. Norah Jones has 3 different qualities of same album on TIDAL and the better the quality, the lesser this occurs. (Not at all at 192khz).

Do you have a T758v3 to try this track (Free of the Feeling, Jesca Hoop, @2:00) on?

NAD T758v3 | F:Dynaudio EMIT M20 C:Dynaudio Audience 122C S:Dynaudio Audience 62 B:T+A Triton TR1 TF:Dynaudio Audience 42W TR:JBL Pro
Oppo BDP-93 | Sony VPL-HW50ES 3D | FireTV | Mede8er X5003D | 2x Behringer A500 | Cadillac Sedan Deville 1973
NoFuzz is offline  
post #9383 of 9890 Old 08-23-2019, 12:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bkeeler10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woods Cross, Utah
Posts: 1,034
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked: 310
So last night I was using REW to do some measuring of my system. I ran across a curious behavior, and I'm not sure where the problem lies. For reference, I use my HDMI-equipped laptop running Windows 10 and the latest (or nearly latest) version of REW, and UMIK-1 microphone with calibration file.

I have bass management running on the NAD of course. However, when I run a sweep with HDMI channel 1, 2, or 3 (left, right and center channels) I sometimes don't get output from the subs. Rather, everything is going to the main speaker - it's as if bass management has been turned off in the receiver. Perhaps the strangest part is, it seems to be intermittent. On some sweeps I'll get the response I expect and the subs are clearly participating, and on other sweeps the subs just go away. This is happening in back-to-back measurements, without restarting any equipment or software, or changing any connections.

I can't think of anything going on with the computer itself or the REW software that would cause this. After all, REW can't know whether there's bass management running downstream of it. The receiver should simply receive content from the channel being sent and apply bass management to it. But I also haven't noticed a lack of bass on any content that I've played through the NAD.

As I thought about it some more, I realized I do get pretty good response from the speakers themselves (they're big floorstanders with response below 40 Hz in-room). Most content that I listen to that has heavy or deep bass also has an LFE channel, so it may not be particularly obvious if the bass management is not working in that sort of content. And most of the content I listen to that doesn't have an LFE channel is not demanding in the bass department, so perhaps it just hasn't been noticeable.

Has anyone here had an issue with bass management on this receiver? I'm starting to wonder if I may have a defective unit.

System
Transducers: Revel Concerta2 F36 (3), M16 (4); Tannoy AMS 6DC (4); Rythmik F18 (2)
Front end: NAD T758 v3; Outlaw Model 7125
Sources: Panasonic UB820; Oppo BDP-103; Toshiba HD-A2
Projection: JVC DLA-RS440; Seymour CenterStage UF retractable 110" 2.35:1

bkeeler10 is offline  
post #9384 of 9890 Old 08-23-2019, 10:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bkeeler10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woods Cross, Utah
Posts: 1,034
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked: 310
Update: After movie night tonight I played some stereo music for a few minutes and the sub was playing content. Hard to duplicate this issue (if it's even an issue . . . )

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

System
Transducers: Revel Concerta2 F36 (3), M16 (4); Tannoy AMS 6DC (4); Rythmik F18 (2)
Front end: NAD T758 v3; Outlaw Model 7125
Sources: Panasonic UB820; Oppo BDP-103; Toshiba HD-A2
Projection: JVC DLA-RS440; Seymour CenterStage UF retractable 110" 2.35:1

bkeeler10 is offline  
post #9385 of 9890 Old 08-23-2019, 10:41 PM
Member
 
NoFuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 32
It happens to tracks from CD as well, through HDMI or using the analog output (Oppo 93).

It does not happen when listening through headphones directly on the NAD (Shure SRH 440, meant for studio monitoring)

When playing "Sunrise" from Norah Jones, it happens as soon as she starts to sing (on the "i" of "Sunrise", to be specific). This track is available on Tidal as 44.1k, 96k and 192k. Only the 192k does not show this clipping.

If I am the only one having this problem, on 2 different T758v3's, what could cause this? Tried other powercable, installed avr & speakers downstairs in the living room, no difference.






Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFuzz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedDemon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFuzz View Post
Did anybody try this? I'm really curious because I bought another T758v3 to compare (actually, to return "#2" and not be "between AVR's") and this one shows the exact same problem (funny is, this one has a lower serial number).



Checked other speakersets: nope



Tried external power amp: nope



Tried different speakercabling : nope



Current firmware versions:

MCU : v2.13

DSP : v1.16

Video: v1.09

BluOS : 3.4.20



Downgraded to BluOS 3.4.13 but to no avail.
Is it an MQA track?
Are you playing from Roon or BluOS app?
I’️ve ran into this before on my C658 and it was because of how I had the MQA settings configured.
BluOS

It happens only with 44k tracks, not higher res ones. Norah Jones has 3 different qualities of same album on TIDAL and the better the quality, the lesser this occurs. (Not at all at 192khz).

Do you have a T758v3 to try this track (Free of the Feeling, Jesca Hoop, @2:00) on?

NAD T758v3 | F:Dynaudio EMIT M20 C:Dynaudio Audience 122C S:Dynaudio Audience 62 B:T+A Triton TR1 TF:Dynaudio Audience 42W TR:JBL Pro
Oppo BDP-93 | Sony VPL-HW50ES 3D | FireTV | Mede8er X5003D | 2x Behringer A500 | Cadillac Sedan Deville 1973

Last edited by NoFuzz; 08-23-2019 at 11:07 PM.
NoFuzz is offline  
post #9386 of 9890 Old 08-24-2019, 01:47 AM
TMQ
Member
 
TMQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFuzz View Post
It happens to tracks from CD as well, through HDMI or using the analog output (Oppo 93).

It does not happen when listening through headphones directly on the NAD (Shure SRH 440, meant for studio monitoring)

When playing "Sunrise" from Norah Jones, it happens as soon as she starts to sing (on the "i" of "Sunrise", to be specific). This track is available on Tidal as 44.1k, 96k and 192k. Only the 192k does not show this clipping.

If I am the only one having this problem, on 2 different T758v3's, what could cause this? Tried other powercable, installed avr & speakers downstairs in the living room, no difference.

Of course the distortion is there. I find that issue couple of months ago and reported to NAD, they think its a hardware issue but i don't. Try to turn off Dirac- no distortion. With Dirac on play with front speakers crossover - higher crossover gives less or no distortion. My solution is to lower whole dirac curve couple of dB's. This distortion is some kind of signal clipping and its corelated with Dirac. it's crucial to calibrate Dirac with its latest version because in my case with older version the problem was much more prominent.
NoFuzz likes this.

Last edited by TMQ; 08-24-2019 at 02:17 AM.
TMQ is offline  
post #9387 of 9890 Old 08-24-2019, 02:23 AM
Member
 
NoFuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMQ View Post
Of course the distortion is there. I find that issue couple of months ago and reported to NAD, they think its a hardware issue but i don't. Try to turn off Dirac- no distortion. With Dirac on play with front speakers crossover - higher crossover gives less or no distortion. My solution is to lower whole dirac curve couple of dB's. This distortion is some kind of signal clipping and its corelated with Dirac.
Ah, thank you! NAD support said "We are not seeing multiple distorted audio reports elsewhere, only from you. I think something in your setup is causing the distortion, or you are just having bad luck with NAD AVR's." I can imagine it's hard to keep track.

From what I gather it is indeed a software (DIRAC, DSP, DA convertor?) problem, since it appears on only 44.1k tracks.
But it also is there with DIRAC off, at least on my "bad luck" NAD AVR's. The 3rd T758v3 I have now is just connected and no DIRAC measurements or downloading to AVR done.

I changed the cut-off frequency as you mentioned and: when setting speakers to LARGE (so, no cut-off) the problem is NOT there! That explains why I did not notice the problem when looking for new speakers: I kept the setting on large, as to not influence the performance of the tested speaker.

Last edited by NoFuzz; 08-24-2019 at 02:31 AM.
NoFuzz is offline  
post #9388 of 9890 Old 08-24-2019, 05:04 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Just tried it. Exactly as you say, in stereo with speakers set to small I hear distortion at 2:06. With speakers set to large it is clean. Dirac on/off makes no difference.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
NoFuzz likes this.
ph73 is offline  
post #9389 of 9890 Old 08-24-2019, 05:20 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 7
NoFuzz,
Using your your Jesca Hoop track, Google Play Music on Chromecast gives the same result as Tidal on BluOs. Distortion when the front speakers are small but clean when large. I don't see why applying a crossover would have that effect, it's not as though it adds any boost to cause clipping. It is also odd that it is not more widespread, I haven't noticed it on any other tracks. All very strange.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
NoFuzz likes this.
ph73 is offline  
post #9390 of 9890 Old 08-24-2019, 06:06 AM
Member
 
NoFuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ph73 View Post
NoFuzz,
Using your your Jesca Hoop track, Google Play Music on Chromecast gives the same result as Tidal on BluOs. Distortion when the front speakers are small but clean when large. I don't see why applying a crossover would have that effect, it's not as though it adds any boost to cause clipping. It is also odd that it is not more widespread, I haven't noticed it on any other tracks. All very strange.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
Thanks for trying, I really appreciate it! To prove I'm not nagging, bugging or am crazy or whatever ;-)

Once you hear it, you can't unhear it: I heard it in more tracks...sorry for that.

NAD T758v3 | F:Dynaudio EMIT M20 C:Dynaudio Audience 122C S:Dynaudio Audience 62 B:T+A Triton TR1 TF:Dynaudio Audience 42W TR:JBL Pro
Oppo BDP-93 | Sony VPL-HW50ES 3D | FireTV | Mede8er X5003D | 2x Behringer A500 | Cadillac Sedan Deville 1973
NoFuzz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off