Do any current AVRs support 1080p@120Hz pass-through? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 26 Old 07-12-2017, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Do any current AVRs support [email protected] pass-through?

I'm looking for an AVR that can handle passing through a 120Hz 1080p signal without skipping frames (for PC gaming on a Vizio TV).
Does one exist?
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post #2 of 26 Old 07-12-2017, 11:00 PM
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AFAIK, there are no true "120 Hz" TVs out there. Just 60 Hz refresh panels with frame interpolation. There are 144 Hz PC displays, but nothing above 60 for actual refresh rates for TVs to the best of my knowledge.

If you're attempting to use a 120 Hz refresh rate specifically from a game's resolution menu, it will end up with your TV not recognizing the signal (regardless of whether or not an AVR is present in the mix) and nothing on your display except your TV's "there is no signal" message.

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post #3 of 26 Old 07-13-2017, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post
AFAIK, there are no true "120 Hz" TVs out there. Just 60 Hz refresh panels with frame interpolation. There are 144 Hz PC displays, but nothing above 60 for actual refresh rates for TVs to the best of my knowledge.

If you're attempting to use a 120 Hz refresh rate specifically from a game's resolution menu, it will end up with your TV not recognizing the signal (regardless of whether or not an AVR is present in the mix) and nothing on your display except your TV's "there is no signal" message.
Vizio TVs with 120Hz panels have been able to handle true 120Hz for a few years now. I believe some Sony TVs can do it too. My issue is that most AVRs don't pass this signal through, which forces me to bypass the AVR and connect the PC to the TV directly.
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post #4 of 26 Old 07-13-2017, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by GorillaBot View Post
Vizio TVs with 120Hz panels have been able to handle true 120Hz for a few years now. I believe some Sony TVs can do it too. My issue is that most AVRs don't pass this signal through, which forces me to bypass the AVR and connect the PC to the TV directly.
Yes i have a 42in Vizio with a true 120hz panel, i use it for PC gaming.
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post #5 of 26 Old 07-13-2017, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
Yes i have a 42in Vizio with a true 120hz panel, i use it for PC gaming.
What is the model of the TV you're using?

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post #6 of 26 Old 07-14-2017, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post
What is the model of the TV you're using?
M422i-B1.



Also tested here,https://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

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post #7 of 26 Old 07-14-2017, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
M422i-B1.



Also tested here,https://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates
OK, after reading the RTings comments and the user manual I think I know what's going on here. You may or may not actually like it depending on the results.

There is apparently a different chip used in the 42" version of Vizio's M series, which accepts (with some finagling) a 1080p120 signal. However, that's just the chip. The actual panel itself may or may not be 60 Hz. However, you can use this test to see if any frameskipping is taking place. If at 120 Hz that test shows frameskipping, your TV can accept a 120 Hz signal, but your panel is only 60 Hz. If the test shows no frameskipping, you're getting true 120 Hz out of your display panel. More information regarding the nature of 120 Hz TVs can be found here.

Very, very few even accept 120 Hz signals at all, and even fewer than that actually have panels capable of greater than 60 Hz, and still fewer than that are panels that can reach a full 120 Hz at 1080p. You'll need to test your TV to see if it's getting true 120 Hz or just using the 120 Hz signal for purposes of interpolation (which is what most TVs internally use that pixel clock for).

With that said, to do what you need regarding signal passthrough, you're going to need an AVR that has true 4k60p 4:4:4 support. That 4:4:4 support is critical as that is how ARGB signals are sent from computers except for the early 4k draft mode "hack" employed by nVidia and AMD that sent 4k60 at 4:2:0, making it worthless for computer gaming/text. Ultimately it's going to come down to trial and error, because almost nobody tries to force 1080p120 in a home theater setup, so you're not likely to find any info on whether or not it's even possible. Usually computer connections are made directly, unless the end user is using the HDMI audio out capability of the GPU and can send signals through an AVR (like I do). The chipset used in the AVR's HDMI/DSP board will determine whether or not it handles 1080p120, as while the spec for HDMI 2.0a/b can handle it bandwidth-wise, it is not an official VESA timing, and as such may or may not pass through properly.

I wish I could give you more definitive answers, but what you're doing is a really niche use case. It's awesome to see that there is the possibility that some panels are actually being made with 120 Hz capability, but those are still so few and far between and you still have to deal with the HDMI controller chipset being able to parse 120 Hz externally also, and both of those requirements being true is almost nonexistent, and so AVR manufacturers aren't necessarily spending any efforts to get that particular signal timing working, so it's going to come down to dumb luck currently.

Edit: The reason 4k60 @ 4:4:4 support is required is because if the AVR has only 4k30 @ 4:4:4 support, it does not have the bandwidth to accomplish what you need from a computer display signal. Your best bets will be a recent AVR with at least HDMI 2.0b connections. However, next year AVRs will appear with HDMI 2.1, and 1080p120 is part of that spec officially so you may want to wait out the HDMI spec bump.
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post #8 of 26 Old 07-15-2017, 09:31 AM
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Ya that is the test I POSTED. Did it and passed. The tv was recognized as 120hz by both my Nvidia card and my AMD card. I also have a 4k tv that I can force into 120hz mode with software, but the Vizio did not need that.

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post #9 of 26 Old 07-15-2017, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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@cardoski same here on my 2015 M60 and 2016 P65 (Vizios 120Hz support is well known among owners here)..
More and more TVs are supporting 120Hz input every year. Rtings has also started including it in their standard tests. You can see on their site that several Sony's as well as a couple of LG models support it beside the Vizios.
I'm assuming it's just a matter of time until receivers support it as well... I was just hoping someone has done it already!
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post #10 of 26 Old 07-17-2017, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillaBot View Post
I'm looking for an AVR that can handle passing through a 120Hz 1080p signal without skipping frames (for PC gaming on a Vizio TV).
Does one exist?
Nope. However, the new HDMI 2.1 spec to be released later this fall supports up to 10k/120Hz which may be available on AVRs by 2019 or 2020.
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post #11 of 26 Old 07-17-2017, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Nope. However, the new HDMI 2.1 spec to be released later this fall supports up to 10k/120Hz which should be available on some 2018 AVR models and most 2019 AVR models.
Excellent, thanks! I'll wait until next year then!
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post #12 of 26 Old 07-17-2017, 12:22 PM
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Ya that is the test I POSTED. Did it and passed. The tv was recognized as 120hz by both my Nvidia card and my AMD card. I also have a 4k tv that I can force into 120hz mode with software, but the Vizio did not need that.
No, the test you posted is this one: https://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

The test I posted is this one: https://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

So no, they are not the same tests. The second one will tell you whether or not your TV's display panel is actually utilizing 120 Hz or is just interpolating from it and is natively 60 Hz.

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post #13 of 26 Old 07-17-2017, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post
No, the test you posted is this one: https://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

The test I posted is this one: https://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

So no, they are not the same tests. The second one will tell you whether or not your TV's display panel is actually utilizing 120 Hz or is just interpolating from it and is natively 60 Hz.
Did that test and passed. I am aware of all the tests on that sight, which is why I posted the page in the first place lol. I also posted a screen shot of my Nvidia control center which automatically detects 120hz. As did my AMD card. I previously had a Korean 27in 2560X1440 monitor that I could overclock to 120hz with software. It did not show up as 120hz natively.

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Last edited by cardoski; 07-17-2017 at 02:01 PM.
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post #14 of 26 Old 07-17-2017, 03:10 PM
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Did that test and passed. I am aware of all the tests on that sight, which is why I posted the page in the first place lol. I also posted a screen shot of my Nvidia control center which automatically detects 120hz. As did my AMD card. I previously had a Korean 27in 2560X1440 monitor that I could overclock to 120hz with software. It did not show up as 120hz natively.
Right. The reason I posted the second test is because while your graphics card saw it could use 120 Hz, that's due to the HDMI controller chip. The controller chip is between the GPU and the actual display panel, which is why I suggested the frameskipping test. But if yours actually shows no frameskipping, grats, I'm jealous. I was just letting you know that if frameskipping did show up, the panel itself wasn't truly capable of 120 Hz even if the controller was telling the GPU it could.
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post #15 of 26 Old 07-21-2017, 09:24 AM
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So did anyone ever answer the OP's question? Are there any current AV Recievers that support passthrough 120Hz without frameskipping? What make/model? There are many, many televisions that support it, but what about AVRs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillaBot View Post
I'm looking for an AVR that can handle passing through a 120Hz 1080p signal without skipping frames (for PC gaming on a Vizio TV).
Does one exist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post
No, the test you posted is this one: https://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates
The test I posted is this one: https://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping
So no, they are not the same tests. The second one will tell you whether or not your TV's display panel is actually utilizing 120 Hz or is just interpolating from it and is natively 60 Hz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
Did that test and passed. I am aware of all the tests on that sight, which is why I posted the page in the first place lol. I also posted a screen shot of my Nvidia control center which automatically detects 120hz. As did my AMD card. I previously had a Korean 27in 2560X1440 monitor that I could overclock to 120hz with software. It did not show up as 120hz natively.
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post #16 of 26 Old 07-21-2017, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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So did anyone ever answer the OP's question? Are there any current AV Recievers that support passthrough 120Hz without frameskipping? What make/model? There are many, many televisions that support it, but what about AVRs?
Yes, jdsmoothie answered it above (the answer is no). He knows his AVRs so I take his word for it!
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post #17 of 26 Old 07-21-2017, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
So did anyone ever answer the OP's question? Are there any current AV Recievers that support passthrough 120Hz without frameskipping? What make/model? There are many, many televisions that support it, but what about AVRs?
The technical answer: AVRs that support 4k60 @ 4:4:4 have the bandwidth to support 1080p120 @ 4:4:4 no problem. However, 1080p120 is not a part of the HDMI spec as a valid timing until HDMI 2.1, so only AVRs that incorporate all of the baseline HDMI 2.1 spec will accept a 1080p120/4:4:4 signal coming from a computer's GPU. DisplayPort 1.4 can do this now, but not one AVR has a DP input that I know of.

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post #18 of 26 Old 10-20-2017, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Squishy Tia View Post
The technical answer: AVRs that support 4k60 @ 4:4:4 have the bandwidth to support 1080p120 @ 4:4:4 no problem. However, 1080p120 is not a part of the HDMI spec as a valid timing until HDMI 2.1, so only AVRs that incorporate all of the baseline HDMI 2.1 spec will accept a 1080p120/4:4:4 signal coming from a computer's GPU. DisplayPort 1.4 can do this now, but not one AVR has a DP input that I know of.
1080p 120Hz has been a part of HDMI since 1.4 - I know this for a fact because I have used it. The issue is that AVR-makers don't pass it through, they limit output to 60Hz. HDMI 2.1 supports 1080p 240Hz, but it's still going to be up to manufacturers to actually support it in the controller SoC.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
1080p 120Hz has been a part of HDMI since 1.4 - I know this for a fact because I have used it. The issue is that AVR-makers don't pass it through, they limit output to 60Hz. HDMI 2.1 supports 1080p 240Hz, but it's still going to be up to manufacturers to actually support it in the controller SoC.
Is this still true in 2019?

My AVR (Denon x4300h) is crushing the whites when I enable 120hz with HDR ON at 1080p.
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post #20 of 26 Old 12-12-2019, 02:19 AM
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damnit if i only knew this,
bought a Denon X1500H which has not even HDMI 2.1 and i wondered why i cant get my new TV (LG OLED 65C9MLB) running at more than 60 HZ.
Can't belive this is an issue on new receivers in 2019.
Is there any AVR meanwhile, that would allow me to pass through more than 60 HZ when playing games with my TV?
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post #21 of 26 Old 12-12-2019, 03:34 AM
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Yes. See here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/145-h...p-without.html

Media: LG 88" 8K OLED Z9 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original)
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post #22 of 26 Old 12-12-2019, 04:07 AM
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Yes. See here:

thanks.
I guess i don't even neet to ask if someone knows if there are coming out new models any soon, which also pass 4k with over 60 fps...
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post #23 of 26 Old 12-12-2019, 04:26 AM
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thanks.
I guess i don't even neet to ask if someone knows if there are coming out new models any soon, which also pass 4k with over 60 fps...
That would require HDMI 2.1.

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Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
That would require HDMI 2.1.
Are you saying there are no AVRs out with HDMI 2.1 yet?
And if there are some, that alone doesn't assure it will work, does it?
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post #25 of 26 Old 12-12-2019, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
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Are you saying there are no AVRs out with HDMI 2.1 yet?
And if there are some, that alone doesn't assure it will work, does it?
Correct on both accounts

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Ok
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