StormAudio I.ISP 3D.16.12 16-Channel Integrated AV Processor Hands-On - Page 29 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #841 of 893 Old 06-14-2019, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by shashankmittal View Post
So Bryston has confirmed that the gain and input impedance mismatch with my NAD M27 is causing the noise issue for me. They are checking with Storm engineers on possible options.

I wonder if they really designed it to be used with Pro amps or just Bryston amps, that have a gain selector switch.

FWIW, when i had the bryston connected to an ATI 4007 and a marantz 7055 i had no noise.
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post #842 of 893 Old 06-14-2019, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shashankmittal View Post
So Bryston has confirmed that the gain and input impedance mismatch with my NAD M27 is causing the noise issue for me. They are checking with Storm engineers on possible options.

I wonder if they really designed it to be used with Pro amps or just Bryston amps, that have a gain selector switch.
The same thing happened with somebody who tried the Lyngdorf MP50 with the NAD M27, it was a scandinavian reviewer.
He had also a noise issue. He solved the problem with XLR attenuators.
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post #843 of 893 Old 06-14-2019, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
FWIW, when i had the bryston connected to an ATI 4007 and a marantz 7055 i had no noise.
I had zero noise either connected to ATI N-core 5200 and 5400 series amps.

*Its probably NAD sabotaging Bryston
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post #844 of 893 Old 06-14-2019, 04:16 PM
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Nice to read that many visitors thought that the PMC booth had the best sound during the Munich High End exhibition.
Needless to say the Atmos sound was created by the SP4

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post #845 of 893 Old 06-28-2019, 06:03 AM
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I hope for an owner update herein, because I am on the verge of ordering the SP4.

Any reservations thereto?

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post #846 of 893 Old 06-28-2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_Pasich View Post
Does anyone know if these will handle both surround Height and rear Height channels? From the manual it appears they have combined them into a single channel. It’s disappointing since the upcoming DTS:X Pro will allow for both to be used.
It supports both positions. Storm's nomenclature is Floor.subs.heights.tops. 7.1.6.0 = front, surround & rear heights.

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post #847 of 893 Old 07-10-2019, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicvinny View Post
The same thing happened with somebody who tried the Lyngdorf MP50 with the NAD M27, it was a scandinavian reviewer.
He had also a noise issue. He solved the problem with XLR attenuators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
I had zero noise either connected to ATI N-core 5200 and 5400 series amps.
*Its probably NAD sabotaging Bryston
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
FWIW, when i had the bryston connected to an ATI 4007 and a marantz 7055 i had no noise.
After working with Bryston for over 4 weeks and visiting their service center in Vermont with my SP4, NAD M27 amp and one of the B&W speakers, we found that the noise issues is a combination of the following -

1. Sensitive speakers - All of my B&W speakers are 89dB or higher.
2. High noise floor of the NAD M27 amp.
3. Difference in gain structure of the SP4 and NAD amp. This difference is the same between SP4 and ATI class D amps. I spoke to ATI about this and they confirmed the same.
4. Listening conditions - My room is acoustically treated and sound proof and I have sensitive ears.

At the Bryston service center, we tried using a Bryston amp that has a 23dB gain and it lowered the noise significantly. As an experiment, we tried using an inline 20dB attenuator with the XLR interconnect and it eliminated the noise almost 90%. While this reduces the overall volume, this is the best workaround we have found so far.

The Bryston service manager has brought in a NAD M27 amp at their Peterborough ON facility and their engineers are performing more tests. Basically the theory right now is that any amp with 29dB of gain powering sensitive speakers will generate white noise when used in conjunction with the SP4.

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post #848 of 893 Old 07-10-2019, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shashankmittal View Post
After working with Bryston for over 4 weeks and visiting their service center in Vermont with my SP4, NAD M27 amp and one of the B&W speakers, we found that the noise issues is a combination of the following -

1. Sensitive speakers - All of my B&W speakers are 89dB or higher.
2. High noise floor of the NAD M27 amp.
3. Difference in gain structure of the SP4 and NAD amp. This difference is the same between SP4 and ATI class D amps. I spoke to ATI about this and they confirmed the same.
4. Listening conditions - My room is acoustically treated and sound proof and I have sensitive ears.

At the Bryston service center, we tried using a Bryston amp that has a 23dB gain and it lowered the noise significantly. As an experiment, we tried using an inline 20dB attenuator with the XLR interconnect and it eliminated the noise almost 90%. While this reduces the overall volume, this is the best workaround we have found so far.

The Bryston service manager has brought in a NAD M27 amp at their Peterborough ON facility and their engineers are performing more tests. Basically the theory right now is that any amp with 29dB of gain powering sensitive speakers will generate white noise when used in conjunction with the SP4.

Kudos to Bryston for working with you like that to troubleshoot the problem.
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post #849 of 893 Old 07-11-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by shashankmittal View Post

3. Difference in gain structure of the SP4 and NAD amp. This difference is the same between SP4 and ATI class D amps. I spoke to ATI about this and they confirmed the same.
Hmmm.
I have an SP4 on order and it will be hooked up to an ATI 527 - should I be worried?
My speakers do not have high sensitivity.
I have two 10dB Rothwell laying around but have no plans of using 10 of those (7.1.2).

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post #850 of 893 Old 07-11-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Extreman View Post
Hmmm.
I have an SP4 on order and it will be hooked up to an ATI 527 - should I be worried?
My speakers do not have high sensitivity.
I have two 10dB Rothwell laying around but have no plans of using 10 of those (7.1.2).
I had my SP4 connected to an ATI 523 + ATI 528 running Magico A3s which are 88db sensitivity. I had zero noise issues.
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post #851 of 893 Old 07-11-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Extreman View Post
Hmmm.
I have an SP4 on order and it will be hooked up to an ATI 527 - should I be worried?
My speakers do not have high sensitivity.
I have two 10dB Rothwell laying around but have no plans of using 10 of those (7.1.2).
Not sure, only you can test and tell whether you hear any noise or not.



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Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
I had my SP4 connected to an ATI 523 + ATI 528 running Magico A3s which are 88db sensitivity. I had zero noise issues.
It is certainly possible that you don't have any noise, but a lot of times it is dependent on the listener's ears and how quiet their room is. I am very sensitive to noise and my room is dead quiet (purpose built, acoustically treated and sound proof construction), so any noise can be easily heard. Whatever the case might be, I am glad you don't have the issue I am facing.


I had the same issue with NAD M17 V2 and even though it was connected to a NAD amp (one would assume they would play well together), the speaker sensitivity and my dead quiet listening environment did not help. NAD provided the same solution of using inline attenuation in the XLR cables that Bryston is pursuing for me.

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post #852 of 893 Old 07-11-2019, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by shashankmittal View Post
Not sure, only you can test and tell whether you hear any noise or not.
I think the composition of equipment and the gain structure for the entire chain may play a significant role.
Did the Bryston listening environment provide similar qualities as yours?

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post #853 of 893 Old 07-11-2019, 11:13 AM
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I think the composition of equipment and the gain structure for the entire chain may play a significant role.
Did the Bryston listening environment provide similar qualities as yours?
They tested my SP4 with my NAD amp and one of my B&W speakers in their lab. They confirmed the noise. Then they used a Bryston amp, which has a 23dB gain and it lowered the noise considerably...to the point that I could find it acceptable. They are still running more tests and waiting for their engineers to come up with the right resistor values for the H-pad.
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post #854 of 893 Old 07-11-2019, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by shashankmittal View Post
Not sure, only you can test and tell whether you hear any noise or not.




It is certainly possible that you don't have any noise, but a lot of times it is dependent on the listener's ears and how quiet their room is. I am very sensitive to noise and my room is dead quiet (purpose built, acoustically treated and sound proof construction), so any noise can be easily heard. Whatever the case might be, I am glad you don't have the issue I am facing.


I had the same issue with NAD M17 V2 and even though it was connected to a NAD amp (one would assume they would play well together), the speaker sensitivity and my dead quiet listening environment did not help. NAD provided the same solution of using inline attenuation in the XLR cables that Bryston is pursuing for me.
Obviously I can't begin to tell you what you and I may hear or not hear in a given environment. Additionally, I can't say whether your NAD amp and B&W speakers would result in noise in my room. What I can for a fact say is my room is a 15' x 28' x 8' heavily treated (GIK Acoustics) dedicated media room in my basement with a concrete slab floor and 8' concrete walls on 2 sides (pad/carpet & drywall covering). No windows and one door. I'm running a 7.2.6 system. I also find myself pretty anal when it comes to my gear and spend countless hours in that room and do all my own gear installation from control system programming to speaker installation. If there was any noise whatsoever I'm pretty confident in saying I'd know it.

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post #855 of 893 Old 07-11-2019, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
Obviously I can't begin to tell you what you and I may hear or not hear in a given environment. Additionally, I can't say whether your NAD amp and B&W speakers would result in noise in my room. What I can for a fact say is my room is a 15' x 28' x 8' heavily treated (GIK Acoustics) dedicated media room in my basement with a concrete slab floor and 8' concrete walls on 2 sides (pad/carpet & drywall covering). No windows and one door. I'm running a 7.2.6 system. I also find myself pretty anal when it comes to my gear and spend countless hours in that room and do all my own gear installation from control system programming to speaker installation. If there was any noise whatsoever I'm pretty confident in saying I'd know it.
Great to know. My basement room is 90% the size of yours and has similar construction.
I have been trying to find a demo ATI amplifier near me to test with, but so far I haven't been able to find any dealer who has a ATI amplifier that I can bring for a in-home demo. I will be buying a second amplifier soon to power my front channels, while the NAD will power the surrounds/height channels...so the ATI class D and 6000 series are high on my list.
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post #856 of 893 Old 07-11-2019, 12:45 PM
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Great to know. My basement room is 90% the size of yours and has similar construction.
I have been trying to find a demo ATI amplifier near me to test with, but so far I haven't been able to find any dealer who has a ATI amplifier that I can bring for a in-home demo. I will be buying a second amplifier soon to power my front channels, while the NAD will power the surrounds/height channels...so the ATI class D and 6000 series are high on my list.



I went from the class D to the signature series (4000 though........the 6000 is just too much of a pain to move).



The one thing I can say for sure is the signature series has a lower noise floor. I always had a slight hiss with the 528, wheres as the 4007 is dead silent
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post #857 of 893 Old 07-11-2019, 12:49 PM
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Great to know. My basement room is 90% the size of yours and has similar construction.
I have been trying to find a demo ATI amplifier near me to test with, but so far I haven't been able to find any dealer who has a ATI amplifier that I can bring for a in-home demo. I will be buying a second amplifier soon to power my front channels, while the NAD will power the surrounds/height channels...so the ATI class D and 6000 series are high on my list.

I find processors, amps, speakers, & noise to be a bit like a spoiled child at times. You never know what will set them off!

I have a small 5 channel system in my family room consisting of an Anthem processor, ATI544 amp, Revel F206s, and the odd ball of the bunch a Definitive center channel I had laying around. Well the DT center has a noise problem. Everything else is good...just the center and it’s fairly loud. It doesn’t matter enough to me to investigate so I’ll probably just pull the center and call it a day.


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post #858 of 893 Old 07-11-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by shashankmittal View Post
After working with Bryston for over 4 weeks and visiting their service center in Vermont with my SP4, NAD M27 amp and one of the B&W speakers, we found that the noise issues is a combination of the following -

1. Sensitive speakers - All of my B&W speakers are 89dB or higher.
2. High noise floor of the NAD M27 amp.
3. Difference in gain structure of the SP4 and NAD amp. This difference is the same between SP4 and ATI class D amps. I spoke to ATI about this and they confirmed the same.
4. Listening conditions - My room is acoustically treated and sound proof and I have sensitive ears.

At the Bryston service center, we tried using a Bryston amp that has a 23dB gain and it lowered the noise significantly. As an experiment, we tried using an inline 20dB attenuator with the XLR interconnect and it eliminated the noise almost 90%. While this reduces the overall volume, this is the best workaround we have found so far.

The Bryston service manager has brought in a NAD M27 amp at their Peterborough ON facility and their engineers are performing more tests. Basically the theory right now is that any amp with 29dB of gain powering sensitive speakers will generate white noise when used in conjunction with the SP4.
For what it's worth, I'm using three NAD M27s with my 24 channel Altitude 32, all speakers using XLR connectors to the M27s (DB-25 on the Altitude's output side), and never had any discernible noise issues, at least playing at 85 db reference. My speakers are all PSBs, but I think the highest efficiency one is the Imagine T3, which is rated as 91 db sensitivity in a listening room in their manual. My others are listed at 89/90 db by PSB in the same setting within the Imagine series. Not sure if this is helpful but just a point of information.

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post #859 of 893 Old 07-11-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
I went from the class D to the signature series (4000 though........the 6000 is just too much of a pain to move).
The one thing I can say for sure is the signature series has a lower noise floor. I always had a slight hiss with the 528, wheres as the 4007 is dead silent
I'll shove the 6000 series in a rack and will never have to deal with it lol. Good to know that the signature amps are quieter.

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Originally Posted by dinamigym View Post
I find processors, amps, speakers, & noise to be a bit like a spoiled child at times. You never know what will set them off!
I have a small 5 channel system in my family room consisting of an Anthem processor, ATI544 amp, Revel F206s, and the odd ball of the bunch a Definitive center channel I had laying around. Well the DT center has a noise problem. Everything else is good...just the center and it’s fairly loud. It doesn’t matter enough to me to investigate so I’ll probably just pull the center and call it a day.
Send me one of your ATI amps so that I can test with it! haha.

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For what it's worth, I'm using three NAD M27s with my 24 channel Altitude 32, all speakers using XLR connectors to the M27s (DB-25 on the Altitude's output side), and never had any discernible noise issues, at least playing at 85 db reference. My speakers are all PSBs, but I think the highest efficiency one is the Imagine T3, which is rated as 91 db sensitivity in a listening room in their manual. My others are listed at 89/90 db by PSB in the same setting within the Imagine series. Not sure if this is helpful but just a point of information.
Interesting that you pointed it out. When I was dealing with the same noise issue with NAD M17 processor, NAD M27 and B&W speakers, NAD engineers couldn't reproduce the issue in their lab...guess what.....they were using PSB speakers (their sister brand). They had to get a B&W speaker to reproduce the issue! So somehow, the NAD amp plays well with PSB speakers.
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One other issue to think about is to map the frequency of the noise to the crossover point of the speaker elements. Maybe the B&W has an ‘undesired’ XO that emphasizes reproduction of the noise?

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I hope for an owner update herein, because I am on the verge of ordering the SP4.

Any reservations thereto?
I have a Storm isp elite connected to Hegel H20, Theta Dread D , and the ceiling Atmos speakers are connected to a ATI 5400 amp. I use Kef Blade twos , Kef Reference 4c , Kef C3160s for surrounds , and Kef CI200RR for Atmos. No noise.
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post #862 of 893 Old 07-12-2019, 03:24 PM
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Does anyone know if the ISP series will get IMAX and DTS:X Pro processing? I’m going back and forth between StormAudio and Trinnov.
Robert who posts on here often would know that !
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post #863 of 893 Old 07-15-2019, 02:42 AM
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I am considering a Storm audio, I have a concern though, I read at some other forum (although an old post) that there seems to be a considerable delay with sound when you pause a movie and resume there will be a delay before the sound comes back (up to 8 sec, picure is showing instantly), have you experienced this?

Also I would need a remote, looking at harmony Elite, but as I understand I would need to get a IR receiver to connect to the Storm, is there a special spec of 3,5mm IR receiver or do all work (are there different standard, if sp which did you use?)?
Thank you in advance 😊
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post #864 of 893 Old 07-15-2019, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredrikb125 View Post
I am considering a Storm audio, I have a concern though, I read at some other forum (although an old post) that there seems to be a considerable delay with sound when you pause a movie and resume there will be a delay before the sound comes back (up to 8 sec, picure is showing instantly), have you experienced this?

Also I would need a remote, looking at harmony Elite, but as I understand I would need to get a IR receiver to connect to the Storm, is there a special spec of 3,5mm IR receiver or do all work (are there different standard, if sp which did you use?)?
Thank you in advance 😊
I never noticed a delay with pause/resume. Sometimes when initially loading a codec, there was some difficulty locking on sound but that was rare.

re: remote if you buy a elite, you can plug directly into the IR IN port on the back of he storm from the port on the harmony hub (you may need a 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable...can’t remember if the hub was 2.5mm or not)

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post #865 of 893 Old 07-15-2019, 06:30 AM
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There is only a delay when switching the sources. I have connected my Harmony with the cable, runs smoothly.
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post #866 of 893 Old 07-15-2019, 10:43 AM
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Thank you for the quick informative posts, looks like I will be getting a Storm Audio tomorrow
I got the harmony Elite remote today, thanks to your info.
BR
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post #867 of 893 Old 07-15-2019, 11:01 AM
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Have fun with the great Storm.
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post #868 of 893 Old 07-15-2019, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredrikb125 View Post
I am considering a Storm audio, I have a concern though, I read at some other forum (although an old post) that there seems to be a considerable delay with sound when you pause a movie and resume there will be a delay before the sound comes back (up to 8 sec, picure is showing instantly), have you experienced this?

Also I would need a remote, looking at harmony Elite, but as I understand I would need to get a IR receiver to connect to the Storm, is there a special spec of 3,5mm IR receiver or do all work (are there different standard, if sp which did you use?)?
Thank you in advance 😊
If you want to use the Storm with Harmony hub (and for those who are currently using it with Harmony hub), you will have to make a custom cable to make it work reliably -

1. Harmony has a 2.5mm mono mini jack port. Tip - IR signal, Sleeve - ground.
2. The Storm IR In port uses a 3.5mm stereo mini jack port. This is the schematic* -




*page 62 of the user manual - https://www.stormaudio.com/media/201...8_29032019.pdf

As you may notice, if you connect the Storm and the Harmoney hub with an off the shelf 2.5mm mono to 3.5mm stereo cable, it may short the Storm's IR In port - ring and sleeve or tip and ring, depending on the cable construction. In my case, it was causing the processor to turn off randomly.

I bought these connectors and soldered them to a 2 conductor wire and made my own cable -

2.5mm connector - https://www.parts-express.com/parts-...-plug--090-328
3.5mm connector - https://www.parts-express.com/amphen...atin--092-0150

Other option - Instead of buying the 3.5mm connector, you could also buy a 3.5mm audio cable, remove one of the connectors and solder the 2.5mm connector (link above) in its place - https://www.parts-express.com/audtek...-6-ft--181-430

Basically you want to ensure that the hot wire (red) is soldered to the tip of both connectors and the other wire (black) is soldered to the sleeve of both connectors. The red wire will transmit IR signal and black wire will be your ground.
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post #869 of 893 Old 07-16-2019, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
I never noticed a delay with pause/resume. Sometimes when initially loading a codec, there was some difficulty locking on sound but that was rare.

re: remote if you buy a elite, you can plug directly into the IR IN port on the back of he storm from the port on the harmony hub (you may need a 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable...can’t remember if the hub was 2.5mm or not)
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
There is only a delay when switching the sources. I have connected my Harmony with the cable, runs smoothly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shashankmittal View Post
If you want to use the Storm with Harmony hub (and for those who are currently using it with Harmony hub), you will have to make a custom cable to make it work reliably -

1. Harmony has a 2.5mm mono mini jack port. Tip - IR signal, Sleeve - ground.
2. The Storm IR In port uses a 3.5mm stereo mini jack port. This is the schematic* -




*page 62 of the user manual - https://www.stormaudio.com/media/201...8_29032019.pdf

As you may notice, if you connect the Storm and the Harmoney hub with an off the shelf 2.5mm mono to 3.5mm stereo cable, it may short the Storm's IR In port - ring and sleeve or tip and ring, depending on the cable construction. In my case, it was causing the processor to turn off randomly.

I bought these connectors and soldered them to a 2 conductor wire and made my own cable -

2.5mm connector - https://www.parts-express.com/parts-...-plug--090-328
3.5mm connector - https://www.parts-express.com/amphen...atin--092-0150

Other option - Instead of buying the 3.5mm connector, you could also buy a 3.5mm audio cable, remove one of the connectors and solder the 2.5mm connector (link above) in its place - https://www.parts-express.com/audtek...-6-ft--181-430

Basically you want to ensure that the hot wire (red) is soldered to the tip of both connectors and the other wire (black) is soldered to the sleeve of both connectors. The red wire will transmit IR signal and black wire will be your ground.

Thank you for this info, great to know, I was hoping just to buy a cable, but will try and make it according to your instructions!
BR
Fredrik
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post #870 of 893 Old Yesterday, 03:23 PM
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I got my Storm Audio , initially I had some hassel but I got the latest FW from the support (R3.5r2), now it seems fine and I will try and calibrate in the coming days.

However I soldered a cable according to the instructions (red cable to the tip of both connectors and black to the sleeve) for the harmony Elite, however I get no response from the Storm, do I need to do any settings in the Storm?
I used a 2,5 stereo connector (all I could find in short notice) instead of mono, however there is only cables connected to the tip and the sleave, could there still be an issue using a stero connector instead of mono?

BR
Fredrik
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