StormAudio I.ISP 3D.16.12 16-Channel Integrated AV Processor Hands-On - Page 34 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #991 of 1036 Old 08-10-2019, 10:38 AM
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Do you have the possibility to measure Bryston with Earthworks M23 / Sound Devices USBPre 2? At the moment I am measuring with EMX-7150, the result is better.
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post #992 of 1036 Old 08-10-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Do you have the possibility to measure Bryston with Earthworks M23 / Sound Devices USBPre 2? At the moment I am measuring with EMX-7150, the result is better.
I don't have an Earthworks mic but I have several other including a ACO Pacific 7102 reference mic. Is that good enough?

The mic shouldn't matter if you have its proper calibration file. I'm surprised your measurements differ between calibrated mics. How low do your subwoofers extend below 20Hz? I'd love to take a look at your measurements.
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post #993 of 1036 Old 08-10-2019, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
Nice Marc, I think you're officially Madhuski Jr. A few more swaps and you'll be a full @madhuski .
I prefer " @madhuski 's shadow".
I plan to finalize my systems for years to come by 1/1/2020. It's my resolution.

I'm going to keep a Sherwood R-972 in our bedroom. The media room will be A16, SP4, or ISP 3D. The Den will be NAD M15HD, Lyngdorf MP-50 or R-972.
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post #994 of 1036 Old 08-10-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I never said that Dirac is superior to the Trinnov Optimizer. Will probably be due to the Google translation.
I think I understand what you mean now.
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
At the test, LM says at 48:08 if he had to take out a device from StormAudio / Datasat / Lyndorf / Trinnov-32 and Trinnov-16, then he would take out the Trinnov-16, the Kling only 98% compared to the others. With him in the studio you can hear all. He has several Datasat customers who have switched to StormAudio. I meter with the Micro from the Datasat, Trinnov does not fit, the difference to UMIK is enormous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWtlIpttf6s
Is this what you mean:
  • All of the listed SSPs are essential equal in SQ except for the A16 (98%).
  • You are using the microphone from the Datasat Dirac Live calibration kit and the results are superior to the UMIK.
Are you using the proper calibration files with each microphone?

Last edited by Marc Alexander; 08-10-2019 at 11:20 AM.
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post #995 of 1036 Old 08-10-2019, 12:35 PM
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Marc- if you are using Dig out for LRC- then based on your 14+ channel needs, your choices are Storm Elite (not SP4), and Trinnov Alt32 (uses i7 based platform) - which means you need to sell the rest
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post #996 of 1036 Old 08-10-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Kishore View Post
Marc- if you are using Dig out for LRC- then based on your 14+ channel needs, your choices are Storm Elite (not SP4), and Trinnov Alt32 (uses i7 based platform) - which means you need to sell the rest
I'm only using for L&R, not C.

I'm not upgrading the DSP for my CC [at this time]. I'll have to see what audible gains (if any) digital provides.

If/when the opportunity presents itself down the road, I will most likely jump up to the A32 down the road.

I've been exploring the A16 today and I am quite impressed. StormAudio would have to blow me away at CEDIA for me to let go of Trinnov now. Even if the A16 is 98% of the SQ.
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post #997 of 1036 Old 08-10-2019, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I'm only using for L&R, not C.

I'm not upgrading the DSP for my CC [at this time]. I'll have to see what audible gains (if any) digital provides.

If/when the opportunity presents itself down the road, I will most likely jump up to the A32 down the road.

I've been exploring the A16 today and I am quite impressed. StormAudio would have to blow me away at CEDIA for me to let go of Trinnov now. Even if the A16 is 98% of the SQ.
StormAudio will likely be showing just with the upgraded HDMI board at CEDIA, but I believe will announce a hardware upgrade option (extra DSP chip) to allow DTS:X Pro and IMAX enhanced it "may" allow processing to be increase up to 24/96. Not clear if that was just for Dirac or all processing.

I expect 98% is well within the range of variance of measurement execution and highly subjective.
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post #998 of 1036 Old 08-11-2019, 01:18 AM
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With 98% he says that the A16 is restrained in the high tone and can not get to the good resolution of A32 and Storn.
On the A16, I also felt like I was playing with the curtain closed, the curtain went up in the A32 and Storm. I do not want to be influenced, it was my experience with 5 friends. Marc, Cal files were always loaded correctly.
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post #999 of 1036 Old 08-11-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
With 98% he says that the A16 is restrained in the high tone and can not get to the good resolution of A32 and Storn.
On the A16, I also felt like I was playing with the curtain closed, the curtain went up in the A32 and Storm. I do not want to be influenced, it was my experience with 5 friends. Marc, Cal files were always loaded correctly.
Was the Trinnov Optimizer calibrated (level, delay, acoustic correction though drawing of target curves) and with what content, source(s), sampling rate(s), and upmixing, if any?

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
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post #1000 of 1036 Old 08-11-2019, 11:02 AM
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In re: microphones

Ten omni microphones compared
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post #1001 of 1036 Old 08-11-2019, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
With 98% he says that the A16 is restrained in the high tone and can not get to the good resolution of A32 and Storn.
On the A16, I also felt like I was playing with the curtain closed, the curtain went up in the A32 and Storm. I do not want to be influenced, it was my experience with 5 friends. Marc, Cal files were always loaded correctly.
Well I'll be damned! With straight from the initial default settings and 9.1.0.6 configs (no distance/delay or REQ corrections) I am observing the same as @[email protected] describes. The A16 sounds veiled compared to the Bryston SP4 and Lyngdorf MP-50 (Aquaman and Mary Poppins Returns UHDs).

My son is watching Mary Poppins at the moment. I'm going to listen to the NAD M15HD and Sherwood R972 tomorrow. I have a Denon X4000 that sounds veiled in comparison to the Sherwood and Yamaha RX-V1800. I may compare them as well (in 7.1 of course). I am working on a test bed that will allow me to instantly switch between the MP-50 and up to three other processors (all fed by the same HDMI source), L C & R outputs.

I still expect (hope?) the A16 to pull even once calibrated and tweaked to my liking. There are many toos and tweaks not available on StormAudio. I believe my room layout will also benefit from 3D remapping. If StormAudio releases their own version of 3D remapping the platform will be even more formidable.

I do prefer the color front panel display of the SP4 as well as the feel of the volume knob over that of the A16 (which is still very nice). As much as I appreciate the GUI of StormAudio, Trinnov is simply on another level… doing everything StormAudio does and more. The Trinnov software is like StormAudio + Q-Sys together.

StormAudio is a great 16ch SSP for a set-and-forget installation (likely to support more channels via DSP upgrade soon I surmise). Trinnov is a tweaker's fantasy come to life.
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post #1002 of 1036 Old 08-12-2019, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
With 98% he says that the A16 is restrained in the high tone and can not get to the good resolution of A32 and Storn.
On the A16, I also felt like I was playing with the curtain closed, the curtain went up in the A32 and Storm. I do not want to be influenced, it was my experience with 5 friends. Marc, Cal files were always loaded correctly.

Regarding Trinnov- that is identical feedback I got - go for Alt 32.

Regarding Storm- preferred (or better) unit is using Storm Elite 20 model (not applicable for SP4) since 4 addon channels have double the DACs/better SNR for fronts. Will get interesting in Sept timeframe (when new HDMI boards are also available)
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post #1003 of 1036 Old 08-12-2019, 03:28 AM
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For me the Storm sounds better than A16, Trinnov I would only buy A32. I also have the Storm 20, the sound is great and the noise is almost gone.
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post #1004 of 1036 Old 08-12-2019, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Was the Trinnov Optimizer calibrated (level, delay, acoustic correction though drawing of target curves) and with what content, source(s), sampling rate(s), and upmixing, if any?
All measurements and parameters were made equal on the A16 and A32 and the sound was different. You're using NAD M27, is not the noise with NAD louder? I have not had a good experience with NAD.
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post #1005 of 1036 Old 08-12-2019, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
You're using NAD M27, is not the noise with NAD louder? I have not had a good experience with NAD.
I have three NAD M27 Class D amps for my HT, and they’re dead silent in my room.

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post #1006 of 1036 Old 08-12-2019, 07:28 AM
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Thanks, I'm considering to buy the M27, but I did not dare.
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post #1007 of 1036 Old 08-12-2019, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I still expect (hope?) the A16 to pull even once calibrated and tweaked to my liking. There are many tools and tweaks not available on StormAudio.
Marc, when we meet up @ Mike's place next Monday I can walk you thru some of the less obvious but easily audible fine tuning tools. I suspect that, at this early point, you're nowhere near hearing what the A16 is capable of.
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post #1008 of 1036 Old 08-12-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thanks, I'm considering to buy the M27, but I did not dare.
We have no noise running the M27 w/the Storm in its 20 (or 16) channel version.

Quote:
StormAudio is a great 16ch SSP for a set-and-forget installation (likely to support more channels via DSP upgrade soon I surmise). Trinnov is a tweaker's fantasy come to life.
I think this short sells the amount of tweaking possible w/the Storm a bit. It's FAR more than a set and forget device should you choose to use it in a more tweaky way. In fact, I think it encourages experimentation because it makes its extensive feature set (a close second to Trinnov in this regard) of vast crossover options, PEQ per channel, modified Dirac target curves etc., easily and intuitively adjusted, then a button push away to A/B and hear the effect.

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post #1009 of 1036 Old 08-13-2019, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post

StormAudio is a great 16ch SSP for a set-and-forget installation (likely to support more channels via DSP upgrade soon I surmise). Trinnov is a tweaker's fantasy come to life.
You seem to be short selling the Storm PrePro.
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post #1010 of 1036 Old 08-13-2019, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishore View Post
Regarding Trinnov- that is identical feedback I got - go for Alt 32.

Regarding Storm- preferred (or better) unit is using Storm Elite 20 model (not applicable for SP4) since 4 addon channels have double the DACs/better SNR for fronts. Will get interesting in Sept timeframe (when new HDMI boards are also available)
Regards,
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Hi

Could you please explain me why the elite 20 is better sounding that the 16 ? Because to me there’s just an additional card for the 4 xlr to reach 20 channels but the first 16 should stay untouched, am i wrong ? Would my 16 sound better if i would add that optional card then ?

Thanks
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post #1011 of 1036 Old 08-13-2019, 10:57 AM
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Just to clarify I have not compared both units side by side to qualify that Elite20 add on is better unit- but it only follows logic considering it is the same unit we are talking about :-)

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...... Because to me there’s just an additional card for the 4 xlr to reach 20 channels but the first 16 should stay untouched, am i wrong ? Would my 16 sound better if i would add that optional card then ?
Thanks
The XLR4 4 channel card has more DACs per channel and hence has improved SNR only for these 4 channels. If it make a perceptible difference - I do not know..there are many variables.You can assign front channels to these 4 channels for 'theortically' better sonics based on better tech specs. Yeah the other 16 are untouched.

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post #1012 of 1036 Old 08-13-2019, 11:39 AM
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Thanks, i see your point. But not sure it would make a difference, does anyone here has a 20ch version to tell us if there’s any difference in the sound produced by those extra channels compared to the first 16 ?
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post #1013 of 1036 Old 08-14-2019, 12:12 AM
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The difference is heard in an optimized room, the treble dissolves a bit better and the dynamics are slightly better. For a normal room I would not buy the board.
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post #1014 of 1036 Old 08-14-2019, 12:15 AM
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I have a dedicated and fully treated box in a box room, so yes i’m very interested
I’ll ask my integrator
Thanks
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post #1015 of 1036 Old 08-14-2019, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
The difference is heard in an optimized room,
How accurately did you equalize SPLs between the different sources?

Quote:
the treble dissolves a bit better
I am not familiar with that characteristic. Would you care to explain how a difference in "dissolving treble" sounds?

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and the dynamics are slightly better
Are you referring to noise floor, maximum undistorted SPL, or both?

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post #1016 of 1036 Old 08-14-2019, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post
You seem to be short selling the Storm PrePro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rblnr View Post
I think this short sells the amount of tweaking possible w/the Storm a bit. It's FAR more than a set and forget device should you choose to use it in a more tweaky way. In fact, I think it encourages experimentation because it makes its extensive feature set (a close second to Trinnov in this regard) of vast crossover options, PEQ per channel, modified Dirac target curves etc., easily and intuitively adjusted, then a button push away to A/B and hear the effect.
I may be selling StormAudio short a bit. But after just a few short days (my in-laws were in town all week until earlier today) I don't find the StormAudio to be near the Trinnov in tweakability or features. It may be second but it isn't really close. The Trinnov does everything the StormAudio can but better. The StormAudio cannot do all that Trinnov can. I will save more detail for another thread.

I do believe the StormAudio/Bryston SSPs are a better choice for many owners and the Trinnov others.


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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Well I'll be damned! With straight from the initial default settings and 9.1.0.6 configs (no distance/delay or REQ corrections) I am observing the same as @[email protected] describes. The A16 sounds veiled compared to the Bryston SP4 and Lyngdorf MP-50
I have my test bed for A/B'ing up and running. I can conclude that the SP4, A16, and MP-50 sound different. However, I cannot say one or another is better as I cannot detect any loss of details. It seems to be a difference between low/mid/high tone emphasis of the DACs. Tomorrow I will see if measurements support my ears. (I should probably start a separate thread).

The beauty of the Trinnov is that one can utilize digital out and utilize the MP-50 or SP4 as the L&R DACs but still utilize the Trinnov Optimizer. I suspect the differences I am perceiving now will be nullified once Optimized. It also makes it easier to compare REQ algorithms on a level playing field.

I am highly suspicious of the assertion that the A16 and A32 sound different with a 48kHz source. I should have the opportunity to compare for myself soon.
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post #1017 of 1036 Old 08-15-2019, 02:27 AM
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It’s good to see that many of you are realizing that different processors or even model of processors can sound different. I always have experienced this, when comparing processors, and had a hunch that there would be sound differences between the A16 and A32 if one compared them closely. I discussed the differing sonic signatures in this thread and on the hardware vs software SSP thread. SSPs, AVRs (and even amps) often sound different due to significant hardware model design/spec differences, which goes beyond just the different RC algorithms being implemented. It’s no placebo effect. This is why I choose my hardware very carefully, as it must sound great first, without any RC engaged.
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post #1018 of 1036 Old 08-15-2019, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
The difference is heard in an optimized room, the treble dissolves a bit better and the dynamics are slightly better. For a normal room I would not buy the board.


Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
How accurately did you equalize SPLs between the different sources?



I am not familiar with that characteristic. Would you care to explain how a difference in "dissolving treble" sounds?



Are you referring to noise floor, maximum undistorted SPL, or both?

I’m always open to learn new subjective audio terms .... where does “treble dissolves” fit here?




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I’m always open to learn new subjective audio terms .... where does “treble dissolves” fit here?
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post #1020 of 1036 Old 08-17-2019, 10:08 PM
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Does anyone know if there is a way to factory reset the SP4/Storm? I was trying to reconfigure the theater last night, I deleted the existing theater and created a new one. It all worked, no issues. But today the unit doesn't start, the LCD is stuck on "Bryston" logo.



I disconnected the cables, including the power cord and let it sit for several hours. Plugged back in the power cord and tried to turn it on. Same behavior.
The unit is not even accessible over IP.

I have created a support case with Storm, but they won't respond until Monday and I was hoping to resolve the issue over the weekend if anyone has any suggestions.

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