StormAudio I.ISP 3D.16.12 16-Channel Integrated AV Processor Hands-On - Page 41 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1201 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 09:46 AM
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When my first Storm was delivered it did not work, probably transport damage. I informed the support and 3 days later the new Storm was there, was shipped by express directly from the factory, all this cost me nothing. This is how it works in EU, how it looks like in US, I can not know.
But I can understand your concerns.

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post #1202 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 10:30 AM
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StormAudio goes to CES with DTS-X pro
Hi there! Olivier Thumerel, CEO of StormAudio here.
At CES we are part of an event organised by Xperi/DTS showcasing IMAX Enhanced and DTS:X Pro. These cutting-edge
immersive audio technologies will be available with the ISP MK2 processor which is officially launched at Integrated Systems Europe 2020 (Booth 5-V85).
As well as IMAX Enhanced, the MK2 will also be bundled with the DTS:X Pro decoder supporting up to 24ch. There will also be the optional hardware upgrade planned for MK1 where owners get a MK1.5 version of their processor.
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post #1203 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 10:34 AM
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Does the information about Auro 3D V2 actually already exist? What has been changed or adapted?
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post #1204 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
StormAudio goes to CES with DTS-X pro
Hi there! Olivier Thumerel, CEO of StormAudio here.
At CES we are part of an event organised by Xperi/DTS showcasing IMAX Enhanced and DTS:X Pro. These cutting-edge
immersive audio technologies will be available with the ISP MK2 processor which is officially launched at Integrated Systems Europe 2020 (Booth 5-V85).
As well as IMAX Enhanced, the MK2 will also be bundled with the DTS:X Pro decoder supporting up to 24ch. There will also be the optional hardware upgrade planned for MK1 where owners get a MK1.5 version of their processor.
Hopefully you’ll get it sooner rather than later. The latest is that Trinnov finished DTS:X Pro certification and will make it available as a free update for A16 and A32 owners in the next week or so.

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post #1205 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 10:51 AM
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I think Storm will deliver it in March.
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post #1206 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

Worries are in the event of a serious issue the unit would have to go back to Storm (or a remote dealer) rather than to be sent to a local authorized dealer capable of actually working on the unit and being able to provide a lender unit (not necessarily a Storm unit but even say a receiver from another manufacturer that they sell) while the Storm is being worked on. To ship it across country, out of country or over seas and back would mean weeks of down time plus a very expensive shipping bill.
If you buy an Anthem PrePro and you have an issue you have to send it to Canada to get fixed ! Storm would go to LA to get fixed ! This would be an issue for many PrePros that you have a major issue it would not be fixed by local dealer.
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post #1207 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Yes, unfortunately, but the All-16 does not sound as good as Storm to me and the All-16 lacks the flexibility of the Storm.
I had heard that from several sources that Trinnov 16 does not sound as good as Storm, and you have to go to the Trinnov 32 to get the improvement. And at double the price it should sound better .
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post #1208 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post
I had heard that from several sources that Trinnov 16 does not sound as good as Storm, and you have to go to the Trinnov 32 to get the improvement. And at double the price it should sound better .
Two dealers who have Storm and Trinnov also told me that. I also wanted to buy an All-16, the dealer told me, take off the Trinnov glasses and compare. So I came to Storm.
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post #1209 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post
I had heard that from several sources that Trinnov 16 does not sound as good as Storm, and you have to go to the Trinnov 32 to get the improvement. And at double the price it should sound better .
Hopefully this rumor of the Altitude16 sounding worse than its bigger sister, will soon get some company from more descriptive comparisons. From a pure hardware point of view, a difference in sound quality between the A16 and A32 should only be possible with >96kHz material. Can any of your sources refer to a A-B comparison with some description of how this was set up?

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post #1210 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 11:34 AM
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How does Trinnov explain the big price difference between All-16 and All-32?
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post #1211 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Two dealers who have Storm and Trinnov also told me that. I also wanted to buy an All-16, the dealer told me, take off the Trinnov glasses and compare. So I came to Storm.
Can’t blame dealers who offer both, to throw in some subjective statements to allow them to sell both Trinnov as StormAudio units. That to me is by no means any proof that this difference is real. It may be there, but for me it needs either my own comparison or a very well description of a double blind A-B comparison with some well trained ears present.

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post #1212 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 11:59 AM
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The video was translated for me:
In the video Trinnov has won, at the end the integrator says a few words about it. He was surprised by the result and believes that Trinnov won only because of the excesses of space. He could not achieve the good sound result of the Storm in four hours with the Trinnov, although he knows the Trinnov for years and the Storm is new to him. He noticed during calibration that the Trinnov does not play as brilliant in the high frequencies and not as precise in the treble as the Storm.
This is exactly what I noticed at that time.
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post #1213 of 1413 Old 01-11-2020, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Yes, unfortunately, but the All-16 does not sound as good as Storm to me and the All-16 lacks the flexibility of the Storm.
The Storm has more expandability but the Altitude 16 is arguably more flexible.
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Does the information about Auro 3D V2 actually already exist? What has been changed or adapted?
What are you referencing regarding Auro3D V2? AFAIK Auro3D v2 is simply Auro3D 13.1 and 11.1(7+4) which is supported by Storm. Can you provide a link?
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post
I had heard that from several sources that Trinnov 16 does not sound as good as Storm, and you have to go to the Trinnov 32 to get the improvement. And at double the price it should sound better.
All it takes is one source to start the rumor, and it will multiply. The power of suggestion and expectation bias. I don't doubt that @[email protected] truly perceived a difference, because I did too... until I investigated further and it was psychoacoustics at play.

"And at double the price it should sound better." This may have been the start the narrative that the A32 was audibly superior/different compared to the A16.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Two dealers who have Storm and Trinnov also told me that. I also wanted to buy an All-16, the dealer told me, take off the Trinnov glasses and compare. So I came to Storm.
I can see the dealer preferring to sell A32s and Storms over the A16 as they are expandable and the A16 is not.

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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
How does Trinnov explain the big price difference between All-16 and All-32?
From https://store.acousticfrontiers.com/...ros-altitude16
Relative to the Altitude 32, cosmetics are simplified, with a lower cost front panel. It gives up little functionally - there's no channel count upgradeability, second analog input or digital outputs.
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post #1214 of 1413 Old 01-12-2020, 12:04 AM
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In the post by Kishore, on the picture is Auro 3D V2 Update. What is meant by that? Will Auro also change something in the Auro-Ubmixer?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post

"And at double the price it should sound better." This may have been the start the narrative that the A32 was audibly superior/different compared to the A16.

I can see the dealer preferring to sell A32s and Storms over the A16 as they are expandable and the A16 is not. I also suspect that the margins on StormAudio are a bit wider than from Trinnov, in the US at least.

From https://store.acousticfrontiers.com/...ros-altitude16
Relative to the Altitude 32, cosmetics are simplified, with a lower cost front panel. It gives up little functionally - there's no channel count upgradeability, second analog input or digital outputs.
So the reason two dealers who sold both brands of PrePros recommended Storm over Trinnov Alt16 is because “you think” Storm may have a wider margin. It just takes one to start rumors like that Marc. 🤔😉😉
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post #1216 of 1413 Old 01-12-2020, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post
So the reason two dealers who sold both brands of PrePros recommended Storm over Trinnov Alt16 is because “you think” Storm may have a wider margin. It just takes one to start rumors like that Marc.
I think StormAudio is quite popular with custom installers as has quite a few features and updradable modules that lend themselves better to a whole home setup.

Also compared to the Trinnov it will have a lower learning curve for setup and calibration to get a good result. Yes you might be able to get a better result with Trinjov and Optimzer, but you need someone that really knows what they to achieve this. I seem to remember reading a Blogpost a few years ago where a highly regarded calibrator (not Adam) made a comment about encountering another botched Trinnov install.

If this is the case and with the introduction of Alt16 more installs have been do by CI's not fully trained to dial them in properly then would not be surprised if the StormAudio sounded better after it replaced the Alt16.

I've just bought an ISP 3D.32, not because I think it sounds better, but because of the feature set it provides, e.g. 2nd theater module... ...not to mention I got it at a significantly lower price than a 2nd hand Alt32 8-16 (with old HDMI board) that I was negotiating for at the same time.

This means I can get the 24ch decoder board for the ISP to make it MK1.5 after any initial firmware issues are sorted but still have a full 32ch now and later for additional audio zones and on top of that another upto 16 channel theatre zone should I decide to get the 2nd Theater Module.

I'm also eyeing off the 32 channel Digital output AES module so I can avoid an unnecessay DA-AD conversion between to my Q-SYS system. Not to mention reducing 32 balanced cables down to 4 network cables.
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post #1217 of 1413 Old 01-12-2020, 04:57 AM
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Hello, Stromer,
listen to the CD, track 10, I keep getting pulled off the sofa.
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post #1218 of 1413 Old 01-12-2020, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
The video was translated for me:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=defOWw0YFn0
In the video Trinnov has won, at the end the integrator says a few words about it. He was surprised by the result and believes that Trinnov won only because of the excesses of space. He could not achieve the good sound result of the Storm in four hours with the Trinnov, although he knows the Trinnov for years and the Storm is new to him. He noticed during calibration that the Trinnov does not play as brilliant in the high frequencies and not as precise in the treble as the Storm.
This is exactly what I noticed at that time.
[email protected], for those of us that aren't Russian speakers, can you explain what he meant by "Trinnov won only because of the excesses of space"? Without content examples, it's also difficult to understand his opinion on calibration (whatever "brilliant" and "not as precise" in high frequencies and treble mean), but that terminology is sometimes used in an subjectivist circle, though.

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post #1219 of 1413 Old 01-12-2020, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Apgood View Post
I think StormAudio is quite popular with custom installers as has quite a few features and upgradable modules that lend themselves better to a whole home setup.

Also compared to the Trinnov it will have a lower learning curve for setup and calibration to get a good result. Yes you might be able to get a better result with Trinjov and Optimzer, but you need someone that really knows what they to achieve this. I seem to remember reading a Blogpost a few years ago where a highly regarded calibrator (not Adam) made a comment about encountering another botched Trinnov install.

If this is the case and with the introduction of Alt16 more installs have been do by CI's not fully trained to dial them in properly then would not be surprised if the StormAudio sounded better after it replaced the Alt16.

I've just bought an ISP 3D.32, not because I think it sounds better, but because of the feature set it provides, e.g. 2nd theater module... ...not to mention I got it at a significantly lower price than a 2nd hand Alt32 8-16 (with old HDMI board) that I was negotiating for at the same time.

This means I can get the 24ch decoder board for the ISP to make it MK1.5 after any initial firmware issues are sorted but still have a full 32ch now and later for additional audio zones and on top of that another upto 16 channel theatre zone should I decide to get the 2nd Theater Module.

I'm also eyeing off the 32 channel Digital output AES module so I can avoid an unnecessay DA-AD conversion between to my Q-SYS system. Not to mention reducing 32 balanced cables down to 4 network cables.
Great points!
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post #1220 of 1413 Old 01-12-2020, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post
So the reason two dealers who sold both brands of PrePros recommended Storm over Trinnov Alt16 is because “you think” .... It just takes one to start rumors like that Marc. 🤔😉😉
You are so right. Regardless whether I think or know, it is not appropriate for me to post regarding (therefor I have redacted it from my post).
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post #1221 of 1413 Old 01-12-2020, 12:04 PM
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I can tell you having considered both and ultimately choosing to sell the Storm over the Trinnov, that I’m a little doubtful margins had much to do with the choice. The $$ aren’t so different as to move the needle IMO, and for dealers so inclined, the upper level Trinnov is far more expensive which obviously yields more revenue. Sonically, in a fairly brief a/b, I felt them fairly equal. But I felt and feel that the Storm, though perhaps missing a feature or two (remapping the only possibly consequential one to my mind), is the better software platform for both dealer and user. Easier to use and more reliable. Further, where Dirac has evolved and will continue to do so because of the larger user/revenue base, I am not sure how that will play out with Optimzer.

That was the gist of my reasoning

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post #1222 of 1413 Old 01-12-2020, 04:06 PM
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The Trinnov Alt32 (16, 24, 32 ch) vs Alt 16 (16 ch)

The 32 has expanded ch count and rumor is it will go beyond 32 soon.

The 32 up samples to 192.

The 32 has a discrete digital out via AES. I was at Genelec in March and they got a unit to test.

Trinnov is a software based Linux PC. Software engineering is expensive to keep it all in house.

That said it may or may not justify the price tag for many.

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post #1223 of 1413 Old 01-13-2020, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
The video was translated for me:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=defOWw0YFn0
In the video Trinnov has won, at the end the integrator says a few words about it. He was surprised by the result and believes that Trinnov won only because of the excesses of space. He could not achieve the good sound result of the Storm in four hours with the Trinnov, although he knows the Trinnov for years and the Storm is new to him. He noticed during calibration that the Trinnov does not play as brilliant in the high frequencies and not as precise in the treble as the Storm.
This is exactly what I noticed at that time.
So if I understand you correctly, here is an integrator who organizes a shoot-out where a panel of three listeners calls the Trinnov A16 the winner, and then explains how surprised he is about this outcome and that he himself favors the sound of StormAudio for reasons of being more "brilliant and "precise" in the high frequencies. Qualifications as "brillant" and "precise" are however not necessarily indicative for the better, more representative or natural sound. I have experienced that small exaggerations (sometimes caused by distortions) in the high frequencies can produce more sparkling, bright ("brilliant") sounds, which some people experience as being the better sound. More clarity or brightness is often used to describe such difference. In those situations I found that the best way to demonstrate that this can be an illusion, is to ask the individual to select a track they know well and that contains a good recorded voice, to concentrate on the voice, and decide again between A and B which give the most natural representation. That can be quite a revelation. The reason for this is that we just don't know how certain instruments or other sounds are supposed to exactly sound (unless you are very familiar with the sound of that specific instrument), as we were not present during the performance or during the mixing stage. As we are all very sensitive to the sound of the human voice, we are able to judge the quality by just listening to a recording much better and more consistently than any other sound.

PS In analogy: We are so accustomed to hearing a centrally positioned voice through stereo speakers, that we tend to prefer this sound above the same voice reproduced by one center speaker (for example by activating DSU). However, if you try and really judge the sound on basis of "what is the most natural sounding", chances are that you will choose the center speaker presentation as the better one (obviously you'll need identical LCR speakers for such listening test),

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post #1224 of 1413 Old 01-13-2020, 06:02 AM
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[email protected], for those of us that aren't Russian speakers, can you explain what he meant by "Trinnov won only because of the excesses of space"? Without content examples, it's also difficult to understand his opinion on calibration (whatever "brilliant" and "not as precise" in high frequencies and treble mean), but that terminology is sometimes used in an subjectivist circle, though.
I need it translated too.
All three were calibrated in the room with a time limit of 4 hours and the Storm was very quick to set up, although it is not familiar with the Storm, is its first device. He knows the Trinnov very well, but could not reach the good gait results of the Storm in 4 hours. It should be a blind test, the intended personnel and time was missing, therefore spontaneous test.
The persons evaluated several criteria, the points were then added together.

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post #1225 of 1413 Old 01-13-2020, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rblnr View Post
I can tell you having considered both and ultimately choosing to sell the Storm over the Trinnov, that I’m a little doubtful margins had much to do with the choice. The $$ aren’t so different as to move the needle IMO, and for dealers so inclined, the upper level Trinnov is far more expensive which obviously yields more revenue. Sonically, in a fairly brief a/b, I felt them fairly equal. But I felt and feel that the Storm, though perhaps missing a feature or two (remapping the only possibly consequential one to my mind), is the better software platform for both dealer and user. Easier to use and more reliable. Further, where Dirac has evolved and will continue to do so because of the larger user/revenue base, I am not sure how that will play out with Optimzer.

That was the gist of my reasoning
With Dirac BM the first serious renewal is imminent. I am curious how this will affect the sound.
Storm will also extend the BM on the processor.
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post #1226 of 1413 Old 01-13-2020, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
The Trinnov Alt32 (16, 24, 32 ch) vs Alt 16 (16 ch)

The 32 has expanded ch count and rumor is it will go beyond 32 soon.
Not so much rumor - there's the 48ext addition designed to work with a 32 channel Altitude.
https://www.trinnov.com/altitude-48ext/

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post #1227 of 1413 Old 01-13-2020, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I need it translated too.
All three were calibrated in the room with a time limit of 4 hours and the Storm was very quick to set up, although it is not familiar with the Storm, is its first device. He knows the Trinnov very well, but could not reach the good gait results of the Storm in 4 hours. It should be a blind test, the intended personnel and time was missing, therefore spontaneous test.
The persons evaluated several criteria, the points were then added together.
I guess we need to tell them to "perevoditye po-angliski, pozhalsta" . (that's Russian for please translate into English, which I remember from my long-ago Russian class in high school)

Seriously, not knowing anything about the gear in the room, one thought that comes to mind - aside from Marc Alexander's comment about level matching between processors - is that the default target curve on the Altitude is flat (zero at all frequencies), not a downward sloping curve that I believe is the default in Dirac software (at least, on the MiniDSP/Dirac version). You have flexibility to draw the Trinnov's target curve however you want, but if you're using a flat curve out of the box you'll likely get less pleasant sounding results in the high frequencies. Part of the art of using Optimizer or Dirac by a user or calibrator is just how that curve is drawn.

At least that's the case on the Advanced settings that were the way you'd run a calibration until relatively recently....I believe the default curve on the Configuration Wizard is flat but I don't have my processor handy at work. And without identical target curves, speaker configurations, and level matching, any test results will be subjective.

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
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post #1228 of 1413 Old 01-13-2020, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
With Dirac BM the first serious renewal is imminent. I am curious how this will affect the sound.
Storm will also extend the BM on the processor.
Dirac has sent the DL BMM code for the APM-117 DSP. I expect the ISP 3D mk2 & mk1.5 to launch with it.

I was told by Dirac that the current SHARC DSP (StormAudio/Bryston/Focal mk1) can support DL BMM… if the manufacturer so chooses. (At what cost? IDK)
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post #1229 of 1413 Old 01-14-2020, 04:52 AM
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According to StormAudio, the Dirac BM will also be available for MK1, the license must be purchased from Dirac. For MK2 the Dirac BM will be free of charge.
The question is, if the license is already included in the upgrade to MK 1.5 or if it has to be bought separately from Dirac?
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post #1230 of 1413 Old 01-17-2020, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
According to StormAudio, the Dirac BM will also be available for MK1, the license must be purchased from Dirac. For MK2 the Dirac BM will be free of charge.
The question is, if the license is already included in the upgrade to MK 1.5 or if it has to be bought separately from Dirac?
StormAudio should have the answer to that !
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