Emotiva RMC-1 AV Processor Demoed at CEDIA 2017 - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 532 Old 07-26-2018, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
They are hoping to start shipping by CEDIA so there should be an owner's thread soon. :hopefull:
I hope you're right...but for good reason I take Emotiva's shipping estimates with a grain of salt.
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post #452 of 532 Old 07-26-2018, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Where did you here this rumor? The standard ready in two months has been floating around for 2 1/2 years , unless there is a written statement from Emotiva instead of hearsay , don't count on it. The RMC-1 received best new product or something of the sort CEDIA 2017 , almost CEDIA 2018 now still nothing official .
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Latest thing I read on the Emotiva lounge was before the end of summer.

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post #453 of 532 Old 07-26-2018, 08:02 PM
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Latest thing I read on the Emotiva lounge was before the end of summer.
The end of summer in Australia is February, so it could still be a while.
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post #454 of 532 Old 07-26-2018, 09:58 PM
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How do you figure that? Even the most expensive setups are calibrated.

Maybe be better to say once you have good enough speakers and a perfect room......

The most expensive setups are just that... expensive... seldom good.


The simple answer is that you cannot fix the room with DRC without breaking the direct sound... so if that is perfected, then any DRC you add will only make it worse. The room you need to fix with acoustic treatment.


With worse speakers DRC could improve the direct sound, as well as room issues - so there is has it's place. Could even save you a good deal on money when you can buy cheaper speakers.

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post #455 of 532 Old 07-26-2018, 10:56 PM
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@hasta666 what speaker locations are you looking to add?


I’m running 7.1.4 with an Arcam 550. Thinking about adding a sub and wides.
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post #456 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 05:21 AM
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Latest thing I read on the Emotiva lounge was before the end of summer.

Well no matter the rumor or the source don't make the mistake of planning on it, or trying to hold anyone accountable to the remark, they'll eat you alive in that Emotiva thread . Emotiva is the best, make the best and do no wrong, if a delivery promised is missed, it's your fault. Don't ask questions or suggest disappointment, it's just the way it works, apparently .
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post #457 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 05:29 AM
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How can one get an award for "Best of CEDIA" if the unit is not even close to completion , ready for manufacturer and distribution? Any product I have ever seen receiving an award was released shortly thereafter, this was nothing more that a publicity stunt many honest consumers believed it was legitimately ready and planned around the arrival later the same year , early 2018 . I certainly did, even presold my Anthem in anticipation, my new theater would not be complete until the fall of 2018, no way possible it would not be available.......................right ?


I ordered the AVR X8500 yesterday, if there is any legitimacy to the latest rumor please do tell, I'd still like to give the product a go, rather that make another change would rather install the RMC-1 now .

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post #458 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 05:53 AM
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The simple answer is that you cannot fix the room with DRC without breaking the direct sound... so if that is perfected, then any DRC you add will only make it worse.
Red herring. What we hear in acoustically small rooms is direct AND reflected sound. At low frequencies we ONLY hear the room. So DRC is indeed capable of fixing acoustical issues. There's quite a bit of literature and reserach out there showing this.

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The room you need to fix with acoustic treatment.
Sometimes it's more practical to use active absorption, e.g. DBA.

So the question isn't "DRC vs. acoustical treatments" but "what is most practical". More a gray area than the black and white picture you seem to have in your mind.

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post #459 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Red herring. What we hear in acoustically small rooms is direct AND reflected sound. At low frequencies we ONLY hear the room. So DRC is indeed capable of fixing acoustical issues. There's quite a bit of literature and reserach out there showing this.



Sometimes it's more practical to use active absorption, e.g. DBA.

So the question isn't "DRC vs. acoustical treatments" but "what is most practical". More a gray area than the black and white picture you seem to have in your mind.

The original blanket statement was "Once you go Dirac you never go back"... that's what I challenged. So that is the question here. If it's black&white - it's not my doing.

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post #460 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 07:24 AM
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The original blanket statement was "Once you go Dirac you never go back"... that's what I challenged.
Nope, you made a (false) blanket statement against DRC.

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So that is the question here. If it's black&white - it's not my doing.
There seems to be quite a disconnect between what you're trying to say and what you're actually saying:

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The most expensive setups are just that... expensive... seldom good.


The simple answer is that you cannot fix the room with DRC without breaking the direct sound... so if that is perfected, then any DRC you add will only make it worse. The room you need to fix with acoustic treatment.


With worse speakers DRC could improve the direct sound, as well as room issues - so there is has it's place. Could even save you a good deal on money when you can buy cheaper speakers.

Markus

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post #461 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
There seems to be quite a disconnect between what you're trying to say and what you're actually saying:
You are entitled to think so, as long as you don't claim it to be so.

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post #462 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 08:06 AM
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I don't think so. You might have to start thinking in Swedish to get it, possibly.
Well, the issue is that you say things that are simply false. Has nothing to do with being Swedish or not.

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post #463 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 08:14 AM
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Well, the issue is that you say things that are simply false. Has nothing to do with being Swedish or not.

No, I'm correct, whether you believe it or not. But it's your free choice to refuse to learn.

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post #464 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 09:58 AM
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No, I'm correct, whether you believe it or not. But it's your free choice to refuse to learn.
I don't cling to audiophile beliefs when it comes to physics and psychoacoustics. Your claim is simply wrong and has been shown to be wrong by scientific research. Read through the references you'll find in Toole's book "Sound reproduction". You'll be surprised what can be learned about the topic.

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post #465 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 10:34 AM
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How can one get an award for "Best of CEDIA" if the unit is not even close to completion , ready for manufacturer and distribution? Any product I have ever seen receiving an award was released shortly thereafter, this was nothing more that a publicity stunt many honest consumers believed it was legitimately ready and planned around the arrival later the same year , early 2018 . I certainly did, even presold my Anthem in anticipation, my new theater would not be complete until the fall of 2018, no way possible it would not be available.......................right ?


I ordered the AVR X8500 yesterday, if there is any legitimacy to the latest rumor please do tell, I'd still like to give the product a go, rather that make another change would rather install the RMC-1 now .
As others have pointed out, this unit has been 2-3 months away for well over a year now. There has always been a disconnect between Emotiva's marketing strategies and their engineering.

However, the unit is real and not vapor. It will eventually come to market. It will be a major embarrassment if not shipping by CEDIA.

I was in the same boat Roxie. I sold my AV7702mkII in anticipation of the RMC-1 being available April of 2017. Rather than disrupting the market with the RMC/XMC/XMR immersive processors, I now believe they will just end up being among several options in the price range.

All signs point to 9.1.6 becoming the new standard for the home. I expect that most AVR/AVP manufacturers are now actively planning for or at least considering 9.1.6 support.

I'm really looking forward to CEDIA this year!
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post #466 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 10:41 AM
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I don't cling to audiophile beliefs when it comes to physics and psychoacoustics. Your claim is simply wrong and has been shown to be wrong by scientific research. Read through the references you'll find in Toole's book "Sound reproduction". You'll be surprised what can be learned about the topic.


From Psychology today:
Quote:
Alas, at some point we change.  We stop learning. We move from being learners to being knowers.  Strangely, being someone who ‘knows’ can interfere with being someone who ‘learns’.   Paradoxically, the better we were at learning, the worse this problem can be.  Why does knowing get in the way of learning?  We constantly need to keep learning regardless of how much we knew at some point in time.
All participants in forums should be learners IMO. Knowers have no reason to be here.
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post #467 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 11:05 AM
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All participants in forums should be learners IMO.
Not only in forums. All participants in life should be learners

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post #468 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 12:30 PM
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No, I'm correct, whether you believe it or not.

It is certainly incorrect that DRC doesn't fix the bass region.

Noah
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post #469 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 03:38 PM
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I use Dirac below 250Hz and I find it good for that. Even in a treated room I find that it's not quite there yet regarding higher frequencies though. But well worth it for bass for most people. Getting a good enough room for the bass is really difficult.

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post #470 of 532 Old 07-27-2018, 05:45 PM
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As others have pointed out, this unit has been 2-3 months away for well over a year now. There has always been a disconnect between Emotiva's marketing strategies and their engineering.

However, the unit is real and not vapor. It will eventually come to market. It will be a major embarrassment if not shipping by CEDIA.

I was in the same boat Roxie. I sold my AV7702mkII in anticipation of the RMC-1 being available April of 2017. Rather than disrupting the market with the RMC/XMC/XMR immersive processors, I now believe they will just end up being among several options in the price range.

All signs point to 9.1.6 becoming the new standard for the home. I expect that most AVR/AVP manufacturers are now actively planning for or at least considering 9.1.6 support.

I'm really looking forward to CEDIA this year!

I see your posts on the Lyngdorf MP50 thread as well. Are you thinking of replacing the MP50 with the RMC1? I am strongly considering picking up the MP50 if the RMC1 doesn't show up soon.
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post #471 of 532 Old 07-28-2018, 12:02 AM
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It is certainly incorrect that DRC doesn't fix the bass region.

Sound isn't just bass. If you talk about DRC just for bass, you'll at least have to call it partial DRC to make the distinction known. And there are more efficient methods. Remove the rear wall to the outside and make it 50% acoustically transparent and you will have fixed the issues with resonances in the bass region without destroying to original sound.


Nothing is set in stone unless you decide to constrain yourself to certain solutions. Just because something is difficult or impractical or expensive, one should never disregard it from thought while hunting for the optimal solution. Unless you do, you will never understand the constraints you place on yourself...



But I guess those talking of "never stop learning" has considered this solution every one of them? Or did they just learn something new? I'm learning new stuff every day, but it's long since I took peoples' words in hifi to mean very much... there's so much bull**** in this business, that it's just because most the claims can't be proven wrong that they don't end up in court. You have to have a sound understanding of physics, possibilities of measurements and understanding of what conclusions you cannot draw from a measurement as well... And you have to have a sound understanding of the placebo effect and why you most often can't rely on yourself.



The designer of my loudspeakers and my basic acoustic design for my cinema did experiments with live music vs. different surround system setups outdoors with a removable wall room to find the boundary (pun intended) of what level of realism is possible to attain and what causes the limitations and what speaker placements would be needed for the best reproduction of a live sound. This was done around the time of the introduction of pro logic or possibly earlier. (Same guy that Tom Holman got the 80Hz sub-woofer crossover frequency from, BTW. Tom has said this in his Scott Wilkinson interview, albeit not by name but by "Swedish Radio" or similar. Don't have the minute count, I'm not sure, but I think it's in the 2nd half.) I don't have the facts on the exact speaker placement it resulted in, but I do know that there did end up speakers in a few places that none of our current systems have yet put to use.


I am Swedish... and I shorten my posts to the bare minimum to avoid giving too many places to nitpick by you who have a more firm grasp of the language and the nuances of every word chosen. This time it had to become verbose. I don't want to have to reply to this again, so please just read it and let it rest in peace and get on with the thread. If there is a single person out there that learned something from it, then mission accomplished.



Nightlord out.
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post #472 of 532 Old 07-28-2018, 07:44 AM
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Sound isn't just bass. If you talk about DRC just for bass, you'll at least have to call it partial DRC to make the distinction known.
Well, "eating a pizza" is still "eating"...

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And there are more efficient methods. Remove the rear wall to the outside and make it 50% acoustically transparent and you will have fixed the issues with resonances in the bass region without destroying to original sound.
More efficient and also practical would be a DBA. Suggesting to remove walls is impractical.

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Nothing is set in stone unless you decide to constrain yourself to certain solutions. Just because something is difficult or impractical or expensive, one should never disregard it from thought while hunting for the optimal solution. Unless you do, you will never understand the constraints you place on yourself...
Exactly. But you're ignoring the fact that most people aren't hunting for the optimal solution but the optimal solution within the constraints they are facing.

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But I guess those talking of "never stop learning" has considered this solution every one of them? Or did they just learn something new? I'm learning new stuff every day, but it's long since I took peoples' words in hifi to mean very much... there's so much bull**** in this business, that it's just because most the claims can't be proven wrong that they don't end up in court. You have to have a sound understanding of physics, possibilities of measurements and understanding of what conclusions you cannot draw from a measurement as well... And you have to have a sound understanding of the placebo effect and why you most often can't rely on yourself.
I agree and yet you don't show any data nor do you cite scientific research to back up your claims. And I'm not just talking about your last few posts but about most of your posts over the last years.

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The designer of my loudspeakers and my basic acoustic design for my cinema did experiments with live music vs. different surround system setups outdoors with a removable wall room to find the boundary (pun intended) of what level of realism is possible to attain and what causes the limitations and what speaker placements would be needed for the best reproduction of a live sound. This was done around the time of the introduction of pro logic or possibly earlier. (Same guy that Tom Holman got the 80Hz sub-woofer crossover frequency from, BTW. Tom has said this in his Scott Wilkinson interview, albeit not by name but by "Swedish Radio" or similar. Don't have the minute count, I'm not sure, but I think it's in the 2nd half.) I don't have the facts on the exact speaker placement it resulted in, but I do know that there did end up speakers in a few places that none of our current systems have yet put to use.
You probably should follow your own advice above instead of following some "guru" who's name or work you don't reference.

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I am Swedish... and I shorten my posts to the bare minimum to avoid giving too many places to nitpick by you who have a more firm grasp of the language and the nuances of every word chosen. This time it had to become verbose. I don't want to have to reply to this again, so please just read it and let it rest in peace and get on with the thread. If there is a single person out there that learned something from it, then mission accomplished.



Nightlord out.
Being Swedish doesn't prevent one from backing up claims with data and proper references. And, if you don't want to discuss things then it doesn't necessarily help to participate in a discussion forum...
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post #473 of 532 Old 07-28-2018, 01:13 PM
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I see your posts on the Lyngdorf MP50 thread as well. Are you thinking of replacing the MP50 with the RMC1? I am strongly considering picking up the MP50 if the RMC1 doesn't show up soon.
While I have great interest in the upcoming Emotiva devices, it is no longer for my own use. While the delays and false promising are one thing, I'm especially disappointed by the censorship currently taking place on their forums.

My intention is to keep the Lyngdorf MP-50 indefinitely. I prefer the 5.1.4 + Wides decoding for both Atmos and Dts:X. I also prefer the matrixed/summed Top Mids to x.x.6 in my room (3 rows). I also use an Outlaw 950 to extract [via 3ch DPLII] a mono signal to feed the rear surrounds. The addition of a Symetrix Jupiter 8 DSP brings it all together. It allows me to mix, matrix, array, EQ, bass manage, etc.

I really do not need the additions to the Lyngdorf as it's matrixing works well for expanding 7.1.4 to a 9.1.6 layout. But once I experienced discrete decoding or processing of wides, I could not go back. This setup also allows me to expand Auro3D 9.1 to the 9.1.6 layout quite effectively.

My remaining Funk Audio speakers just shipped so I will be finalizing my media room very soon.

I would have to look to Storm or Trinnov to attempt to duplicate the full functionality of my current setup. I don't have faith that Emotiva will deliver this type flexibility anytime soon.

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post #474 of 532 Old 07-28-2018, 01:33 PM
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While the delays and false promising are one thing, I'm especially dissapointed by the censorship currently taking place on their forums.
That's new to you? Emotiva has been deleting posts and even whole threads in their "Lounge" for years. Nobody will ever know what has happened when you can make "evidence" simply disappear. Convenient, isn't it?
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post #475 of 532 Old 07-28-2018, 01:59 PM
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That's new to you? Emotiva has been deleting posts and even whole threads in their "Lounge" for years. Nobody will ever know what has happened when you can make "evidence" simply disappear. Convenient, isn't it?
I never payed close attention.
But when XMC-1 owners can not access beta firmware because they've been banned it gets my attention.
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post #476 of 532 Old 07-28-2018, 02:03 PM
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I never payed close attention.
But when XMC-1 owners can not access beta firmware because they've been banned it gets my attention.
That's how they treat "family & friends". Decide for yourself if you want to be part of that kind of family. Their sales tactics are ugly.
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post #477 of 532 Old 07-28-2018, 03:46 PM
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That's how they treat "family & friends". Decide for yourself if you want to be part of that kind of family. Their sales tactics are ugly.
This is why Im leaning towards the Marantz AV8805 or MP50. I honestly don't believe that Emotiva is up to the task of providing timely software updates to make sure their processor works properly, and I think their software will be very buggy at first release and will probably take a year or 2 to be fully stable judging from their previous track record. You are totally right about the Emotiva Lounge..the fanboys on there jump down the throat of anyone posting even legitimate complaints.
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post #478 of 532 Old 07-28-2018, 06:47 PM
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That's how they treat "family & friends". Decide for yourself if you want to be part of that kind of family. Their sales tactics are ugly.
"Hey kids! Big Dan here. There are no issues with any of our products and there haven't been countless delays and unfulfilled promises.

We'll continue our standard policy of telling customers that new products will be released in "two months" and if you don't like it, go buy a $200 Denon."
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post #479 of 532 Old 07-29-2018, 07:58 AM
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"Hey kids! Big Dan here. There are no issues with any of our products and there haven't been countless delays and unfulfilled promises.

We'll continue our standard policy of telling customers that new products will be released in "two months" and if you don't like it, go buy a $200 Denon."
Given what I've heard and seen of how their forum operates, I'm struggling to decide if that's an actual quote from their forum or a mock post.


But no matter how good their hardware may be, their attitude makes me seriously question whether I would want to purchase something like a pre-pro that potentially requires real support from them. An amp or their 12V trigger expander (which I've been very happy with) is another matter as those are items that pretty much just work and don't typically require ongoing firmware updates. The Marantz AV8805 is actually very good and has been very bug free so far and has a company with a much more professional approach (not perfect obviously, but pretty good) to customer service behind it.
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post #480 of 532 Old 07-30-2018, 07:52 AM
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As others have pointed out, this unit has been 2-3 months away for well over a year now. There has always been a disconnect between Emotiva's marketing strategies and their engineering.

However, the unit is real and not vapor. It will eventually come to market. It will be a major embarrassment if not shipping by CEDIA.

I was in the same boat Roxie. I sold my AV7702mkII in anticipation of the RMC-1 being available April of 2017. Rather than disrupting the market with the RMC/XMC/XMR immersive processors, I now believe they will just end up being among several options in the price range.

All signs point to 9.1.6 becoming the new standard for the home. I expect that most AVR/AVP manufacturers are now actively planning for or at least considering 9.1.6 support.

I'm really looking forward to CEDIA this year!

You mentioned a number of posts back that the RMC-1 was going to ( or likely to be) available at or just before CEDIA . You never confirmed if this was an official announcement or just another rumor . If you truely believe it's fact sharing the source would be appreciated .

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