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post #211 of 271 Old 08-17-2018, 02:03 PM
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I don't know if we are talking about the same thing.

Obviously not, I was responding to your comment


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I think the most elegant solution is the trigger box if you want to solder and build something.

That's why I quoted it


Its always going to be simpler to buy something off the shelf, no disagreement there.


However simple is not always best so why not use the trigger out in the pre-pro to power on/off the amps so we loop back around to the diagram, now thats what I call an elegant solution

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post #212 of 271 Old 08-18-2018, 04:08 PM
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Little bit of entertainment



Practice your Lua - Block programming skills
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post #213 of 271 Old 08-19-2018, 03:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I've been following the suggestions here, just couldn't give a detailed response until now....I'm VERY thankful for that diagram.....and also for the sharing of the recommendation to leave them on. I'm going to try that first, and see how that affects my electric bill. If theres no real hit, then I'll def do that! If there is, then I'm going to follow that digran, BUT I'll have some questions on it because I dont understand everything in it (I haven't built a circuit from a diagram since college). Now, the power strip wouldnt work for me unless I got a few of them. Each amp has it's own 20A circuit, so I'd need one switched MA strip per amp...which I dont mind and I'll def go that route if leaving the DCAs on impacts my electric bill too much.

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post #214 of 271 Old 08-20-2018, 07:48 AM
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Hey guys, I've been following the suggestions here, just couldn't give a detailed response until now....I'm VERY thankful for that diagram.....and also for the sharing of the recommendation to leave them on. I'm going to try that first, and see how that affects my electric bill. If theres no real hit, then I'll def do that! If there is, then I'm going to follow that digran, BUT I'll have some questions on it because I dont understand everything in it (I haven't built a circuit from a diagram since college). Now, the power strip wouldnt work for me unless I got a few of them. Each amp has it's own 20A circuit, so I'd need one switched MA strip per amp...which I dont mind and I'll def go that route if leaving the DCAs on impacts my electric bill too much.

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Out of curiosity Matt what do you have them plugged into now? 7 different outlets? It is no different than when running amps for pro tours. A friend of ours, who is a sound engineers and tours with Metallica, uses the same setup with the Middle Atlantic 20A switcher. That's who directed me to the product in the first place. Not trying to say what you should do, only that the above logic does not hold in practice.
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post #215 of 271 Old 08-20-2018, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Out of curiosity Matt what do you have them plugged into now? 7 different outlets? It is no different than when running amps for pro tours. A friend of ours, who is a sound engineers and tours with Metallica, uses the same setup with the Middle Atlantic 20A switcher. That's who directed me to the product in the first place. Not trying to say what you should do, only that the above logic does not hold in practice.
Yup, 7 different outlets ...one per amp. You're saying one switched outlet per dedicated circuit? Any idea what pricing is?

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post #216 of 271 Old 08-20-2018, 11:26 AM
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Yup, 7 different outlets ...one per amp. You're saying one switched outlet per dedicated circuit? Any idea what pricing is?

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You can find them used for about $300 each on the 20A model. There is no way that you are drawing that much current from each amp to where 7 individual circuits would be needed. Regardless, given your current setup, you would probably need a couple of them and quite frankly making the circuit box would be cheaper.

You should post some pictures as you are making it and of the finished product. I think it would be an asset for others with a similar situation to emulate. Good luck with the GTG.
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post #217 of 271 Old 08-21-2018, 09:15 AM
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Just purchased two TSC-7W's to add to my QSC collection.


$250 for both - NIB, MSRP $1499 each
Black Friday came early




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post #218 of 271 Old 08-21-2018, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jish9 View Post
You can find them used for about $300 each on the 20A model. There is no way that you are drawing that much current from each amp to where 7 individual circuits would be needed. Regardless, given your current setup, you would probably need a couple of them and quite frankly making the circuit box would be cheaper.

You should post some pictures as you are making it and of the finished product. I think it would be an asset for others with a similar situation to emulate. Good luck with the GTG.
Sounds like a plan!
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Just purchased two QSC-7W's to add to my QSC collection.


$250 for both - NIB, MSRP $1499 each
Black Friday came early



WHERE WHERE WHERE?

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post #219 of 271 Old 08-21-2018, 09:42 AM
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Sounds like a plan! WHERE WHERE WHERE?

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Unfortunately the seller only had 4, I would have grabbed all of them but by the time I blinked two had already gone. Perfect case of some eBay seller not realizing what they had.


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post #220 of 271 Old 09-28-2018, 03:35 AM - Thread Starter
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QSC Q-Sys: Immersive Audio Channel Expansion (Atmos and Beyond)

Uploading some pics of my UCI....my listening preferences change based on content. Thankfully, Qsys is here to help! Lol. Ive found it helpful to represent actual speaker positions with graphical approximations--it makes tweaking so easy.

Tapping a blue box above each speaker does two things: tapping and dragging up or down will increase or decrease the gain, but more importantly (and here’s why I went with this box as opposed to the knob), I can tap once and input a gain value directly. This is important because it allows for a level of accuracy not really possible (or not as quickly possible) as with the knobs and other options. PEQ is accessible on the “Wall” pages.

There are several listening modes, each one the product of painstaking testing and lengthy evaluation:

CALIBRATION: this mode disables all curves, shelves, and customizations to allow me to take neutral speaker/subwoofer measurements.

ATMOS: This mutes all non-ceiling speakers. Great for determining how much overhead content has been mixed into a track.

MUSIC: This mode was created purely for two-channel music. I’ve tailored this mode to really bring voices forward. The result is a very clear-sounding vocal presentation.

MOVIE NIGHT: This mode is basically for casual watching. Ticks all of the right boxes calibration-wise, and is basically “industry standard” before customization. If the other modes are the “after” then this is the “before.”

BEAST MODE: This is the mode that sounds great with everything. All material thrown at it excels. Has been customized to provide a high-impact experience with zero listening fatigue, even at very loud volumes.

THE BROLIC EXPERIENCE: This mode tightens the immersive audio bubble ( Dolby Atmos, DTS:X) around the seating area. This is certainly the recommended listening mode.

DANGER CLOSE: This mode is extreme. This mode is not for the faint of heart, as it uses a very special EQ shelf in conjunction with some other tweaks on the subwoofers that really put you into the action. This mode is, to me, the ULTIMATE listening mode. :-)



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post #221 of 271 Old 10-11-2018, 04:11 AM - Thread Starter
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QSC Q-Sys: Immersive Audio Channel Expansion (Atmos and Beyond)

Posted this in my build thread, but wanted to re-post here since it directly involves QSys equalization comparisons against a well-measuring baseline.
______________________

Now that the G2G event has come and gone, I am posting bass measurements of the primary modes used, for both rows. I started with this baseline and then tuned each mode by ear.



I was very adamant about NOT measuring at any point during the customization process because I wanted my ears—not graphs—to tell me what I really liked to hear. I wanted the same thing for the G2G—I wanted everyone to judge the sound and video quality and impact based on subjective, not objective analyses.

What you’ll see below are the following: Rear Row 0-100Hz, Front Row 0-100Hz. The modes I measured are:

The Ultimate Experience (formerly Danger Close)
The Brolic Experience
The Movie Experience (Formerly Beast Mode)
The Music Experience (formerly Music)

Here are the graphs. Each mode has slight (or not so slight) variations in slope at select frequencies. Compare these modes to the baseline picture near the top of this post. Note that I enabled the REW feature that provides as much separation as possible between lines, so please the dB values are only relative within each line. dB values are not relative across lines:

Front Row Bass Response:


Rear Row Bass Response:


Having swapped back and forth between the “standard” and my various “custom” modes, I vastly prefer the custom modes.

Also re-posting the list that shows which mode was used with which content:



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post #222 of 271 Old 10-13-2018, 09:54 PM
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If anyone is interested, I am selling off one of my brand new QSC I/O 8Flex units that I am not using. All original accessories and packaging included along with appropriate AC adapter wired for immediate use versus POE. PM me if interested.
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post #223 of 271 Old 11-29-2018, 02:51 PM
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Joined the q-sys club, super impressed. This is head and shoulders above any other platform I've tried.
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Joined the q-sys club, super impressed. This is head and shoulders above any other platform I've tried.
This is one of the reasons why I never upgraded to the Trinnov. The flexibility of the Core and the robust nature of the design architecture is truly something else. They will also be coming out with their own cinema processor that can do immersive audio in the near future. Once you learn how to design, you can create some of the most immersive experiences all the while in a scalable fully customizable fashion. Welcome to the family!
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post #225 of 271 Old 11-30-2018, 12:13 AM
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This is one of the reasons why I never upgraded to the Trinnov. The flexibility of the Core and the robust nature of the design architecture is truly something else. They will also be coming out with their own cinema processor that can do immersive audio in the near future. Once you learn how to design, you can create some of the most immersive experiences all the while in a scalable fully customizable fashion. Welcome to the family!
You got any links about the cinema processor? Is it for home or commerical (or commercial ficussed but can decide home formats)?
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post #226 of 271 Old 11-30-2018, 05:59 AM
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This is one of the reasons why I never upgraded to the Trinnov. The flexibility of the Core and the robust nature of the design architecture is truly something else. They will also be coming out with their own cinema processor that can do immersive audio in the near future. Once you learn how to design, you can create some of the most immersive experiences all the while in a scalable fully customizable fashion. Welcome to the family!
You got any links about the cinema processor? Is it for home or commerical (or commercial ficussed but can decide home formats)?
That have yet to release it and hence no product link. This was info that I got while talking with them directly. As they are on the pro side, it will most likely compete directly with the Dolby commercial cinema processor but can probably be used for non commercial mixes as well. In our discussion they also spoke to being an alternative to Trinnov so I suspect pricing to be similar.
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post #227 of 271 Old 11-30-2018, 06:08 AM
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Sounds interesting. They give any indication on release timeframe?
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post #228 of 271 Old 11-30-2018, 06:26 AM
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Sounds interesting. They give any indication on release timeframe?
Apparently it will be one of two products released in 2019-2020. That is about as far as they knew. I am suspecting in the next 2-3 years as product development on the commercial side takes longer due to their specific application and clientele.
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Apparently it will be one of two products released in 2019-2020. That is about as far as they knew. I am suspecting in the next 2-3 years as product development on the commercial side takes longer due to their specific application and clientele.
It'll be interesting to see what they develop.
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post #230 of 271 Old 11-30-2018, 09:29 AM
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Probably was a matter of time before QSC came up with a cinema decoder. Their capability to natively decode/render the cinema version of DTS:X (DTS MDA) was mentioned back in 2014:

https://www.qsc.com/news/news/detail...mersive-audio/

Doubt that Dolby would let anyone else manufacture a cinema Atmos decoder to compete with their own. Better chance that Barco would license cinema Auro decoding.

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post #231 of 271 Old 11-30-2018, 03:24 PM
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Probably was a matter of time before QSC came up with a cinema decoder. Their capability to natively decode/render the cinema version of DTS:X (DTS MDA) was mentioned back in 2014:

https://www.qsc.com/news/news/detail...mersive-audio/

Doubt that Dolby would let anyone else manufacture a cinema Atmos decoder to compete with their own. Better chance that Barco would license cinema Auro decoding.
I suspect that the QSC product would be aimed at playing the newly minted SMPTE ST 2098-2 "IAB" (Immersive Audio Bitstream) format. It is directly based on the Dolby Atmos format, so those files should also be playable -- theoretically. TBD.

What it probably will not play is any consumer bitstream format like DD, DD+, TrueHD, Atmos, or DTS:X. For that, some external decoder will be needed, same as today. Dolby's CP850 supports various Dolby codecs for alternative content (Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus™, Dolby Digital, and Dolby E upmixing of non-digital cinema package content). Absent is consumer Dolby Atmos.

In case anyone is interested in the ST 2098-2 standard, here's an informative presentation. Link
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I suspect that the QSC product would be aimed at playing the newly minted SMPTE ST 2098-2 "IAB" (Immersive Audio Bitstream) format. It is directly based on the Dolby Atmos format, so those files should also be playable -- theoretically. TBD.

What it probably will not play is any consumer bitstream format like DD, DD+, TrueHD, Atmos, or DTS:X. For that, some external decoder will be needed, same as today. Dolby's CP850 supports various Dolby codecs for alternative content (Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital, and Dolby E upmixing of non-digital cinema package content). Absent is consumer Dolby Atmos.

In case anyone is interested in the ST 2098-2 standard, here's an informative presentation. Link
The q-sys core already has a decoder built into it for DTS MDA and the "H" version of their new IO box already decided everything up to DTS HD MA and DD+ & Dolby Surround 7.1 via HDMI, but not TrueHD. Saw this on the q-sys Facebook group programming page supported with some photos.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I suspect that the QSC product would be aimed at playing the newly minted SMPTE ST 2098-2 "IAB" (Immersive Audio Bitstream) format. It is directly based on the Dolby Atmos format, so those files should also be playable -- theoretically. TBD.
Thanx for the link. Object coordinates look like they're based on the consumer version of Atmos (values = 0 to 1, location 0,0,0 is left bottom corner, etc) rather than cinema Atmos. Is IAB coming to a cinema (or mixing room) near you? Or is that what you meant by "theoretically"?

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post #234 of 271 Old 11-30-2018, 07:48 PM
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The q-sys core already has a decoder built into it for DTS MDA and the "H" version of their new IO box already decided everything up to DTS HD MA and DD+ & Dolby Surround 7.1 via HDMI, but not TrueHD. Saw this on the q-sys Facebook group programming page supported with some photos.
Oh yes, Q-Sys was the first to support DTS:X Cinema soundtracks (aka DTS MDA bitstreams). Just to clarify, this is not related with the DTS:X consumer bitstream format.

I stand corrected -- I see the DCIO box can ingest DD+ and DTS-HD (not HD MA). These are lossy codecs, probably for things like The Met on Fathom Events. Dolby Surround is their 7.1-channel upmixer for stereo sources. Be that as it may, it does not get us any closer to playing immersive bitstreams from UHD discs though Q-Sys.

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Thanx for the link. Object coordinates look like they're based on the consumer version of Atmos (values = 0 to 1, location 0,0,0 is left bottom corner, etc) rather than cinema Atmos. Is IAB coming to a cinema (or mixing room) near you? Or is that what you meant by "theoretically"?
The choice of origin for the Cartesian coordinates is quite arbitrary. As long as we stick with it for the whole movie!

Near me? Doubt it. I don't even have an Atmos cinema near me. More likely near you.

'Theoretically' refers to the ability of third-party (non-Dolby) IAB-compliant playback systems to also be able to play Atmos soundtracks as stated in the presentation.

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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Near me? Doubt it. I don't even have an Atmos cinema near me. More likely near you.
'Twas a figure of speech (coming to a theatre near you), asking whether IAB is already in use or soon to be.
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Dolby Surround is their 7.1-channel upmixer for stereo sources.
When I saw "Dolby Surround 7.1" in the previous post, I though it referred to the theatrical format that debuted with Toy Story 3. Is that what's in the QSC or Dolby's consumer upmixer?

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post #237 of 271 Old 11-30-2018, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
'Twas a figure of speech (coming to a theatre near you), asking whether IAB is already in use or soon to be.
Ahh -- of course. Well, I have no idea.

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When I saw "Dolby Surround 7.1" in the previous post, I though it referred to the theatrical format that debuted with Toy Story 3. Is that what's in the QSC or Dolby's consumer upmixer?
I'm certain it is their upmixer. So much of the "non-sync" programming comes with stereo soundtracks, it needs something to drive the center speaker, at minimum.

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post #238 of 271 Old 11-30-2018, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Oh yes, Q-Sys was the first to support DTS:X Cinema soundtracks (aka DTS MDA bitstreams). Just to clarify, this is not related with the DTS:X consumer bitstream format.

I stand corrected -- I see the DCIO box can ingest DD+ and DTS-HD (not HD MA). These are lossy codecs, probably for things like The Met on Fathom Events. Dolby Surround is their 7.1-channel upmixer for stereo sources. Be that as it may, it does not get us any closer to playing immersive bitstreams from UHD discs though Q-Sys.
For the DTS HD MA decide by the DCIO box I thought the same thing but there was the QSC distributor from Hong Kong showing it accepting a DTS HD MA input signal. He did confirm that he tried True HD and that didn't work.

Mind you for Home use I think the DCIO box is largely redundant as anything DTS-X or Atmos or Auro3D you can just decode into PCM a BD player or computer anyway and send straight to the core. It's really the DTS-X, Atmos or Auro3D tracks that some sort of special decoding box is needed for.

Pity there's no software solution available that can decide the bitstreams in to the different speaker layouts.... Assume the authoring tools can't do it or they are so expensive that it's cheaper to buy a Trinnov..
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post #239 of 271 Old 12-01-2018, 04:46 AM
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Bob Lee from QSC use to post on AVS quite often a few years ago. Maybe Roger and Sanjay can poke him and get him back.

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post #240 of 271 Old 12-01-2018, 10:00 AM
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For the DTS HD MA decide by the DCIO box I thought the same thing but there was the QSC distributor from Hong Kong showing it accepting a DTS HD MA input signal. He did confirm that he tried True HD and that didn't work.
I was just basing my comment on the QSC literature. It is usually correct. Also, a DTS HD MA bitstream carries a lossy DTS HD core inside so it may just been playing that. Whereas a TrueHD bitstream does not carry the lossy DD companion inside.

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Mind you for Home use I think the DCIO box is largely redundant as anything DTS-X or Atmos or Auro3D you can just decode into PCM a BD player or computer anyway and send straight to the core.
Yes, you can at least decode these in lossless quality up to the base 7.1 channels, but not the height channels.

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It's really the DTS-X, Atmos or Auro3D tracks that some sort of special decoding box is needed for.
Yes, you will still need an external decoder for the full immersive experience, same as today.

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Pity there's no software solution available that can decide the bitstreams in to the different speaker layouts.... Assume the authoring tools can't do it or they are so expensive that it's cheaper to buy a Trinnov..
If you already have a Pro Tools rig, you can add the Dolby Atmos plugin for $300.

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Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
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