QSC Q-Sys: Immersive Audio Channel Expansion (Atmos and Beyond) - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 269 Old 12-01-2018, 02:52 PM
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I was wondering how well the QSC Q-Sys would work with Seaton Catalysts 12C. Just wondering since they are active speakers and have their own DSP.

Thanks

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post #242 of 269 Old 12-01-2018, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I was just basing my comment on the QSC literature. It is usually correct. Also, a DTS HD MA bitstream carries a lossy DTS HD core inside so it may just been playing that. Whereas a TrueHD bitstream does not carry the lossy DD companion inside.
Yeah could be.

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If you already have a Pro Tools rig, you can add the Dolby Atmos plugin for $300.
That plugin only mentions Master files so not sure if it could decode the Atmos track from a UHD Bluray disc.
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post #243 of 269 Old 12-01-2018, 04:09 PM
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That plugin only mentions Master files so not sure if it could decode the Atmos track from a UHD Bluray disc.
That indeed would put a crimp in the plans.

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post #244 of 269 Old 12-02-2018, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I'm certain it is their upmixer. So much of the "non-sync" programming comes with stereo soundtracks, it needs something to drive the center speaker, at minimum.
In that case, wonder why DSU is limited to 7.1 in the QSC immersive audio cinema processor.

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post #245 of 269 Old 12-02-2018, 04:44 PM
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In that case, wonder why DSU is limited to 7.1 in the QSC immersive audio cinema processor.
Good question. Probably Dolby is not interested in using that mode in cinemas. At least there is precedent for upmixing stereo to 5.1 -- Dolby Stereo matrix decoding.

I wonder what upmixing modes the CP-850 supports.

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post #246 of 269 Old 12-26-2018, 06:55 AM
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Long have I searched for a solution enabling a full immersive experience.
Matt do you use bare wire to connect to amps or some sort of connectors? I bought some RCA to Phoenix cables for the AVR -> Amp connection.

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Question:

Right now I have a stack of 8 surround sound processors that I use to derive 6 centers from 6 pairs, rear left and right from a single pair and rear left and right heights from a single pair.

I would like to expand this in the future with 4 more centers from 4 more pairs.

Would I be able to do all of this using a single Q-Sys core 500i and eliminate that stack?

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post #248 of 269 Old 12-27-2018, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Socio View Post
Question:



Right now I have a stack of 8 surround sound processors that I use to derive 6 centers from 6 pairs, rear left and right from a single pair and rear left and right heights from a single pair.



I would like to expand this in the future with 4 more centers from 4 more pairs.



Would I be able to do all of this using a single Q-Sys core 500i and eliminate that stack?
There is probably an Audio Component you might be able to use, but its name has escaped me and travelling so can't check.

It takes a 2 channel input and extracts a centre ouput channel and a surround output channel in addition to the left and right. You might be able to use it without connecting the surround output channel, so you end up just end up extracting the channel between the two input channels.

I haven't tested it so not certain it will work should since it basically does the same as you are doing with your avr's.
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post #249 of 269 Old 12-27-2018, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
Matt do you use bare wire to connect to amps or some sort of connectors? I bought some RCA to Phoenix cables for the AVR -> Amp connection.


Yup, I’m using bare wire to connect speakers to the amps. I spent a lot of time trying to find spade connectors that would fit.....but none did, so i went with bare wire. I’m using XLR-Phoenix to get that signal from the Pre/Pro to the Qsys. I made my own Phoenix cable using XLR microphone cable and Phoenix ends (this took a longggg time) to take the signal from the Qsys to the amp inputs.


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post #250 of 269 Old 12-27-2018, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Yup, I’m using bare wire to connect speakers to the amps. I spent a lot of time trying to find spade connectors that would fit.....but none did, so i went with bare wire. I’m using XLR-Phoenix to get that signal from the Pre/Pro to the Qsys. I made my own Phoenix cable using XLR microphone cable and Phoenix ends (this took a longggg time) to take the signal from the Qsys to the amp inputs.


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Thanks. I am not good at those things. I went ahead and bought these

ATLAS MALE RCA TO PHOENIX CONNECTOR CABLE

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post #251 of 269 Old 12-27-2018, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apgood View Post
There is probably an Audio Component you might be able to use, but its name has escaped me and travelling so can't check.

It takes a 2 channel input and extracts a centre output channel and a surround output channel in addition to the left and right. You might be able to use it without connecting the surround output channel, so you end up just end up extracting the channel between the two input channels.

I haven't tested it so not certain it will work should since it basically does the same as you are doing with your avr's.
Yes, Q-Sys Designer offers a Matrix Surround Decoder. In my understanding, it is 2 in, 4 out (LCRS). It is a sort of "Pro Logic" but ideally you'd want a 3-ch mode (Dolby called it 3 Stereo). It will not make any appreciable difference to just ignore the surround output, as there is seldom very strong opposite phase content in these adjacent channels you want to expand.

So yes, it would replace all those external decoders.
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post #252 of 269 Old 12-27-2018, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Yes, Q-Sys Designer offers a Matrix Surround Decoder. In my understanding, it is 2 in, 4 out (LCRS). It is a sort of "Pro Logic" but ideally you'd want a 3-ch mode (Dolby called it 3 Stereo). It will not make any appreciable difference to just ignore the surround output, as there is seldom very strong opposite phase content in these adjacent channels you want to expand.

So yes, it would replace all those external decoders.
Thanks for the info sounds like this will be my next upgrade.
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post #253 of 269 Old 01-10-2019, 05:57 PM
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Matt,
My new theater is almost ready and I am debating between using QSYS 110f and MiniDSP DDRC-88A (two of them). My theater is 7.2.4. My question to you is how did you calibrate your system? In the video I did notice the EQs for the Subs. How about rest of the channels? Did you run the Audyssey setup first and then tweaked the Subs alone? (Sorry if I missed that part in the video).
I am preferring to use 110f as it adds least delay compared to DDRC-88A and also coming from IT background I love the programming options that qsys platform offers. My only worry is the ability to calibrate it. I can create simple IIR filters but I am not sure if I can replicate quality similar to some advanced calibrations like Audyssey and DIRAC by manually creating several filters. Thanks!

-MK

Last edited by av_life; 01-10-2019 at 07:30 PM.
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post #254 of 269 Old 01-11-2019, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av_life View Post
Matt,
My new theater is almost ready and I am debating between using QSYS 110f and MiniDSP DDRC-88A (two of them). My theater is 7.2.4. My question to you is how did you calibrate your system? In the video I did notice the EQs for the Subs. How about rest of the channels? Did you run the Audyssey setup first and then tweaked the Subs alone? (Sorry if I missed that part in the video).
I am preferring to use 110f as it adds least delay compared to DDRC-88A and also coming from IT background I love the programming options that qsys platform offers. My only worry is the ability to calibrate it. I can create simple IIR filters but I am not sure if I can replicate quality similar to some advanced calibrations like Audyssey and DIRAC by manually creating several filters. Thanks!

-MK
I can tell you that I started with MiniDSP, then upgraded to the 110f, and have never looked back. The MiniDSP did the job, but IMO the QSYS is in a completely separate league. The way I look at it: the MiniDSP has the tools to accomplish what you're looking to do, but QSC is designed to do it - in commercial settings.

I know that @BrolicBeast had a similar journey, and will likely give a similar answer, but I'll let him respond.
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post #255 of 269 Old 01-11-2019, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av_life View Post
Matt,
My new theater is almost ready and I am debating between using QSYS 110f and MiniDSP DDRC-88A (two of them). My theater is 7.2.4. My question to you is how did you calibrate your system? In the video I did notice the EQs for the Subs. How about rest of the channels? Did you run the Audyssey setup first and then tweaked the Subs alone? (Sorry if I missed that part in the video).
I am preferring to use 110f as it adds least delay compared to DDRC-88A and also coming from IT background I love the programming options that qsys platform offers. My only worry is the ability to calibrate it. I can create simple IIR filters but I am not sure if I can replicate quality similar to some advanced calibrations like Audyssey and DIRAC by manually creating several filters. Thanks!

-MK
I can tell you that I started with MiniDSP, then upgraded to the 110f, and have never looked back. The MiniDSP did the job, but IMO the QSYS is in a completely separate league. The way I look at it: the MiniDSP has the tools to accomplish what you're looking to do, but QSC is designed to do it - in commercial settings.

I know that @BrolicBeast had a similar journey, and will likely give a similar answer, but I'll let him respond.
Got it. How did you end up calibrating it? Let Audyssey or whichever system run first and then tweak the Sub EQs in 110f? Any guidance here would be great!
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post #256 of 269 Old 01-11-2019, 05:31 AM
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Got it. How did you end up calibrating it? Let Audyssey or whichever system run first and then tweak the Sub EQs in 110f? Any guidance here would be great!
My opinion, and I admit that I tend to dig too deeply and over complicate things: Audyssey is fine for systems that are based on receivers, but once you make the commitment to go the separates route, it's time to get more serious about EQ.

Audyssey will do its best to calculate levels and settings for your room, based on algorithms and readings from its test mic.

Room EQ Wizard (REW) (grossly-oversimplified) is a DIY-Audyssey. It is designed for you to have far greater control and responsibility for the EQ. It takes a good bit of reading, trial and error, luck, and the always-awesome-support of those in the REW thread . I think you'll find that you can set a house curve that hits your own personal sweet spot, and IMO takes your room to the next level.
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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post

My opinion, and I admit that I tend to dig too deeply and over complicate things: Audyssey is fine for systems that are based on receivers, but once you make the commitment to go the separates route, it's time to get more serious about EQ.

Audyssey will do its best to calculate levels and settings for your room, based on algorithms and readings from its test mic.

Room EQ Wizard (REW) (grossly-oversimplified) is a DIY-Audyssey. It is designed for you to have far greater control and responsibility for the EQ. It takes a good bit of reading, trial and error, luck, and the always-awesome-support of those in the REW thread . I think you'll find that you can set a house curve that hits your own personal sweet spot, and IMO takes your room to the next level.
Understood. My question is in REW we don’t see QSC model in DSP list. Should we select generic and then apply those parameters in the IIR filters in 110f?
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post #258 of 269 Old 01-11-2019, 06:25 AM
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QSC Q-Sys: Immersive Audio Channel Expansion (Atmos and Beyond)

Quote:
Originally Posted by av_life View Post
Matt,

My new theater is almost ready and I am debating between using QSYS 110f and MiniDSP DDRC-88A (two of them). My theater is 7.2.4. My question to you is how did you calibrate your system? In the video I did notice the EQs for the Subs. How about rest of the channels? Did you run the Audyssey setup first and then tweaked the Subs alone? (Sorry if I missed that part in the video).

I am preferring to use 110f as it adds least delay compared to DDRC-88A and also coming from IT background I love the programming options that qsys platform offers.

-MK

An important distinction to make is that a DDRC-88A is a Room Correction and speaker calibration system based on DIRAC RC. At one point I was running 2 88A’s with a Denon 7200 and it did a great job.

The QSC Core 110f is neither of these since it doesn’t support a MIC. Yes you can use REW and feed those results into the core and calibrate your speakers play about with PEQ's, FIR/IIR filters & some other really great tools but it will never be a substitute for a room calibration system.


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Matt,
My only worry is the ability to calibrate it. I can create simple IIR filters but I am not sure if I can replicate quality similar to some advanced calibrations like Audyssey and DIRAC by manually creating several filters. Thanks!

-MK
Yep that's going to be a bit like re-inventing the wheel.


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post #259 of 269 Old 01-11-2019, 09:03 AM
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Understood. My question is in REW we don’t see QSC model in DSP list. Should we select generic and then apply those parameters in the IIR filters in 110f?
Yes, you just want to make sure (especially if you have REW create the rules for you) that you pick a setting that has a similar allowed number of rules as the hardware that you'll be configuring.
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post #260 of 269 Old 01-11-2019, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av_life View Post
Understood. My question is in REW we don’t see QSC model in DSP list. Should we select generic and then apply those parameters in the IIR filters in 110f?

Another way to do it in Q-SYS is to use custom voicing but you'll need to obtain the voicing parameters from the speaker manufacturer, which is sometimes possible if your using an off the shelf speaker or an internet direct brand. DIY speakers; then you're definitely reliant on REW

https://training.qsc.com/mod/book/view.php?id=198

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post #261 of 269 Old 01-14-2019, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av_life View Post
Matt,
My new theater is almost ready and I am debating between using QSYS 110f and MiniDSP DDRC-88A (two of them). My theater is 7.2.4. My question to you is how did you calibrate your system? In the video I did notice the EQs for the Subs. How about rest of the channels? Did you run the Audyssey setup first and then tweaked the Subs alone? (Sorry if I missed that part in the video).
I am preferring to use 110f as it adds least delay compared to DDRC-88A and also coming from IT background I love the programming options that qsys platform offers. My only worry is the ability to calibrate it. I can create simple IIR filters but I am not sure if I can replicate quality similar to some advanced calibrations like Audyssey and DIRAC by manually creating several filters. Thanks!

-MK
Hey there! So, the 110f is definitey the better option! I've done a couple things in calibration--in one design, my equalizations are REW-driven on top of my Anthem AVM60's Anthem Room Correction (ARC) instance. in another design, equalizatons do not start with ARC as a baseline...just the pure response.

My preference? I prefer my equalizations on top of ARC. autocorrection does something that I just can't do on my own. Now, when I get a professional calibration done, there will be no ARC in the equation. But my current loaded design is one that includes filter values based on REW measurements on the room with ARC engaged.
Having an IT background definitely helps with navigating qsys--i think we can all associate design elements in the context of "architecture." Definitely not a requirement, but you're definitely going to enjoy the process. I'd definitely recommend using the REW-recommended filter values as well...the tool should cost a few hundred bucks.....can't believe (but I'm so glad it's) free.
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post #262 of 269 Old 01-29-2019, 05:34 AM
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Thank you all. I will be starting this work in mid Feb and will post my experience & questions!
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Does anyone understand the difference between the newly introduced CX-Q amplifiers vs the CXD-Q amplifiers?
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post #264 of 269 Old 02-25-2019, 11:02 AM
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Does anyone understand the difference between the newly introduced CX-Q amplifiers vs the CXD-Q amplifiers?
My understanding is that it has QSC's new FlexAmp technology. Typical amp outputs fixed max power per channel. The flexamp technology can output more power to demanding channels and less power to less demanding channels. For example, the CX-Q 4K8 has 1000w of max power per channel, total of 8000W which can be flex allocated across the 8 channels. Hope this helps!
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Have had the 110f since November now. Very very happy with it. 0 chance I'd ever go back down the MiniDSP route.

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DIY Mid Hi Speakers Build - SKHorn Build - Gjallarhorn Build SOLD - Othorn Build SOLD - SEOS 12 Build - Other Gear: JVC NX5 - Seymour Matinee Black - QSC CX4.5Q amps x 5 - QSC Q-sys 110f - Speakerpower 6000 x2
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Yes, Q-Sys Designer offers a Matrix Surround Decoder. In my understanding, it is 2 in, 4 out (LCRS). It is a sort of "Pro Logic" but ideally you'd want a 3-ch mode (Dolby called it 3 Stereo). It will not make any appreciable difference to just ignore the surround output, as there is seldom very strong opposite phase content in these adjacent channels you want to expand.



So yes, it would replace all those external decoders.
Is anyone using this to expand from 7.1.4 to beyond? Has anyone at least tried it?
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post #267 of 269 Old 04-30-2019, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Is anyone using this to expand from 7.1.4 to beyond? Has anyone at least tried it?
Not yet. Was planning to but don't have the space for the speakers in the apartment.
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post #268 of 269 Old 05-10-2019, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by kingwiggi View Post
Things are quiet around here so I thought that I would throw up my design for critique or suggestions on how it might be further improved. This is pretty new stuff so there is not a lot of 'best practice' out there for schematic audio design. I tried to keep things simple and easy to read, using signal names instead of wire links where lines would have crossed over and caused wire spaghetti.

There is not much EQ needed in the Q-SYS DSP because I am still using MiniDSP 88A's for Dirac room correction. Just installed another Network amp (CXD4.5Q), so my front LCR are now Bi-amped and Q-SYS is being used as an active crossover for 3 JBL M2's which are represented in the top tier, other than that its pretty straight forward Atmos 9.4.4.

What is in the "Matrix" blocks for the surrounds? Is the a summation or do you have any logic to accomplish this?

The QSC's are really interesting to me, as it actually offers to matrix new channels through the decoder mentioned in the post above. I have the BSS Soundwebs (also open architecture) but it does not have the surround decoder functionality.

Home Theater: JBL M2 & SUB18 powered by Crown and BSS.
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post #269 of 269 Old 05-10-2019, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
What is in the "Matrix" blocks for the surrounds? Is the a summation or do you have any logic to accomplish this?

The QSC's are really interesting to me, as it actually offers to matrix new channels through the decoder mentioned in the post above. I have the BSS Soundwebs (also open architecture) but it does not have the surround decoder functionality.
I haven't actually used that component in about 18 months since I upgraded my pre-pro. That particular mixer in the design was the default 8x8 manual analog mixer and therefore there was no logic behind it, I just adjusted the gains by ear.

The Q-SYS Designer 7.x release introduced a new 'Active Matrix surround Decoder' based on the Dolby Pro-Logic decoder so that would be the one to use. The component needs to be activated using the /cinema cmd line switch. This active decoder would in theory allow you to add a couple of extra channels to your processor without the need for additional Pro-Logic hardware.
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Trinnov Altitude 32, LCR JBL M2, JBL LSR 708i, 705i, Q-SYS Core 110f, Amps- QSC CXD4.2Q, 4.3Q, 4.5Q
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