Thinkin of swapping to Yamaha from Marantz - please help if possible! LOL - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Thinkin of swapping to Yamaha from Marantz - please help if possible! LOL

Hey guys!

Thinking of swapping to Yamaha rx-A3070. Please see below!

Current setup:

Marantz 7012 (use as pre/just got this week)
Krell Chorus 5200 (amp)
ML Ethos (fronts)
ML Motif X (center)
ML Motion 40 (surround)
ML Dynamo 1500 (sub)

Last year, I got the PS4 Pro and Xbox One S. From day one, I have had issues w/ the 4K HDR passthrough. I'm using the Marantz 7011 and Sony 930d. For whatever reason (and its very common if you search online) there are various issues - but basically, on the highest settings for PS4, I get only audio, no video. Marantz didn't have an answer, but eventually they, along w/ Sony, released firmware updates. So, I accepted that I will just use the second from the top option, as its still 4K and HDR, and I doubt I be able to tell the difference. However, last week I tried playing a 4K HDR game on Xbox and all I got was snow...no matter what I did. I switched HDMI's, restarted, switched cables...nothing worked. What's strange is that the Oppo 203 works for full 4K HDR, but ONLY in the front HDMI. Makes zero sense. After over a year, nobody had answer and I tried it w/ 3 different units - so the idea of it being defective are thrown out.

So fast forward to this week I saw the new Marantz 7012- under its video settings, you can adjust the HDMI to "enhanced." I figured this would alleviate the passthrough issues - so I swapped units. I bring home the 7012 and have even worse issues - now the PS4 has the highest resolution possibility greyed out and says my TV doesn't support it. When I check video output, it says I can only get HDR in 2K, not 4K. This is baffling. Spoke to Marantz for over an hour, and they said it should absolutely be working...so, due to this and many other weird glitches I have had, I am considering switching to Yamaha.

The reason I pick that brand in particular is because my friend has their flagship, and has zero issues w/ either system - everything works perfectly on all settings. Since the 7012 is new, I can swap it out for the Yammy 3070, but wanted to try and get opinions first. Everything I read says they're very reliable, and it seems to not have as many issues. My concern is more so for the sound it will produce - I tried Denon, and didn't like the sound, but that was also before I got the Krell power amp. Do you think I would notice a huge sonic difference in switching? I always hear mixed things about receivers sounding dramatically different, but if its even CLOSE I would swap just to get rid of the issue I'm having.

Thanks so much for reading and possibly giving input!
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post #2 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 05:46 PM
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Correcto...
Yamaha AVRs are the most reliable, but also 1 of the brand's primary strengths is that their AVRs are HDMI/HDCP certified the only major brand able to make that claim. The other brands self-certify but typically their internal HDMI/HDCP tests are more abbreviated especially for HDMI component interoperability between other brands.

Just my $0.02...
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post #3 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post
Correcto...
Yamaha AVRs are the most reliable, but also 1 of the brand's primary strengths is that their AVRs are HDMI/HDCP certified the only major brand able to make that claim. The other brands self-certify but typically their internal HDMI/HDCP tests are more abbreviated especially for HDMI component interoperability between other brands.

Just my $0.02...
Thanks - I had no idea about that. Makes sense that my friends hasn't had any 4K/HDR issues.

Now, in regards to sound....thoughts on Yamaha? I swapped the Marantz out last year due to this issue and tried Denon...didn't like that sound. Went back to Marantz and I truly love the way movies and music sound - just curious if it will sound drastically different?
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post #4 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 07:56 PM
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I’m curious are you using certified cables? Next have you hooked your Xbox and play station directly to the TV to see if you’re still getting the same issues?

Next boot up the TV then the AVR then boot up one of your gaming systems and see if that sequence helps.

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post #5 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jphillips63 View Post
I’m curious are you using certified cables? Next have you hooked your Xbox and play station directly to the TV to see if you’re still getting the same issues?

Next boot up the TV then the AVR then boot up one of your gaming systems and see if that sequence helps.
Yep, plugging directly to tv works perfectly - when running through Marantz, it has never worked. Bear in mind, I have tried: 6010, 7011, 7012. None of them have worked. When I do the output settings on the PS4, it says the tv can ONLY do HDR in 2K. Which is clearly not true because a direct connection shows HDR in 4K
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post #6 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
Yep, plugging directly to tv works perfectly - when running through Marantz, it has never worked. Bear in mind, I have tried: 6010, 7011, 7012. None of them have worked. When I do the output settings on the PS4, it says the tv can ONLY do HDR in 2K. Which is clearly not true because a direct connection shows HDR in 4K
Turn off the upscaling in the AVR and the gaming systems and allow the TV to do the processing and see if this works. If not turn it off in the TV and then turn it on in the AVR and and keep going thru this sequence until you find the broken link in this chain.

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post #7 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jphillips63 View Post
Turn off the upscaling in the AVR and the gaming systems and allow the TV to do the processing and see if this works. If not turn it off in the TV and then turn it on in the AVR and and keep going thru this sequence until you find the broken link in this chain.
Believe it or not - I have done all of that. Even Marantz admitted that it was a huge issue w/ last years line of AVRs, which is why they added the enhanced option to HDMI. They told me it should be working - for some reason, the Oppo 203 works perfectly. So I tried both game systems in that port...nothing. Swapped to that cable...nothing.

Its so bizarre.
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post #8 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 08:19 PM
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Did you turn "HDR" on in the Sony 930D? Pretty much all of these 4K HDR TV's make you turn on HDR for each HDMI input. For whichever HDMI port the receiver is hooked up to on the TV, make sure HDR is enabled in the Sony menu. Also could be a cable problem. Which cables are you using and what are the lengths of your cable run? Are you using active or passive cables?
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post #9 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fizban19 View Post
Did you turn "HDR" on in the Sony 930D? Pretty much all of these 4K HDR TV's make you turn on HDR for each HDMI input. For whichever HDMI port the receiver is hooked up to on the TV, make sure HDR is enabled in the Sony menu. Also could be a cable problem. Which cables are you using and what are the lengths of your cable run? Are you using active or passive cables?
Yes everything is turned on in the Sony, its also set to enhanced - I have tried swapping between enhanced on tv and enhanced on Marantz, to no avail. A search for this issue is VERY apparent in many receiver and tv brands...the launch of the PS4 pro especially was plagued with issues. And my cables are AQ carbon
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post #10 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fizban19 View Post
Did you turn "HDR" on in the Sony 930D? Pretty much all of these 4K HDR TV's make you turn on HDR for each HDMI input. For whichever HDMI port the receiver is hooked up to on the TV, make sure HDR is enabled in the Sony menu. Also could be a cable problem. Which cables are you using and what are the lengths of your cable run? Are you using active or passive cables?
And remember - I CAN get 4k HDR from Oppo player, as well as Netflix/Amazon smart apps on tv...quite strange
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post #11 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 10:06 PM
 
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Yamaha 3070 will be a upgrade in every way over 7012. Had a marantz 7010 and Yamaha 3060 and it wasn?t even close.

Only thing that might be a upgrade over Yamaha is onkyo rz3100 or integra r1.
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post #12 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Yamaha 3070 will be a upgrade in every way over 7012. Had a marantz 7010 and Yamaha 3060 and it wasn?t even close.

Only thing that might be a upgrade over Yamaha is onkyo rz3100 or integra r1.
Really?? Can you explain a little bit for me - I'm using the Krell for power, so the Yamaha would mainly be for processing and room correction...which is obviously a huge deal. I'm using ML Electrostats and the Marantz seems to create a nice sound when combined w/ the Krell...just curious if there was a noticeable sound difference (ie - warm to bright, brighter to warmer, etc) when you switched. I seem to notice that the Marantz is quite glitchy sometimes too, and it seems Yamaha could be more reliable.

Thanks so much! Excited that somebody commented that has actually owned them both LOL

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post #13 of 27 Old 10-21-2017, 10:38 PM
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You'll find those that have gone both ways .... Yamaha ---> Marantz and Marantz ---> Yamaha .... in both cases pleased with their switch. Although less common, Yamaha owners experience HDMI handshake issues as well as noted in the various Yamaha threads (to include a recent post from an A3070 Owner below). In some cases, specific components may work better with one brand over another. With an external amp, you'll have less to worry about regarding any power supply difference. However, you may be better served asking in the 2017 Yamaha thread otherwise our resident Denon/Marantz basher may unfairly sway your opinion.

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I am running the 3070 into an LG OLED65C7 with current firmware. At first, I could not use any of the rear HDMI's on the 3070 and resorted to using the front one. Finally, after trying my 4th Premium HDMI cable, I got a picture. However, I still suffer from occasional handshake issues that causes my LG to bring up the wallpaper screen and no signal message. I am also using a monoprice premium HDMI. This is the best results I've received so far, and from a far cheaper cable, so I will live with it for now. As annoying as it is, it is far better than getting no picture at all. I figured I would wait until someone else with the same equipment found a cable that works for them. I just got tired of trying.

I should add, my handshake issues typically occur after it's been running fine initially. I could be 5 mins into watching something when all of a sudden, no signal.


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post #14 of 27 Old 10-22-2017, 12:02 AM - Thread Starter
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You'll find those that have gone both ways .... Yamaha ---> Marantz and Marantz ---> Yamaha .... in both cases pleased with their switch. Although less common, Yamaha owners experience HDMI handshake issues as well as noted in the various Yamaha threads (to include a recent post from an A3070 Owner below). In some cases, specific components may work better with one brand over another. With an external amp, you'll have less to worry about regarding any power supply difference. However, you may be better served asking in the 2017 Yamaha thread otherwise our resident Denon/Marantz basher may unfairly sway your opinion.
Thanks for the info - a close friend has been running the 3050 or 3060 with the PS4 Pro and Xbox One S flawlessly, and we both have the same tv (Sony 930d). So I figured the newer model would work similarly...I'm just worried that if I make the jump, I might lose some of the sound qualities I've grown to love in my setup.

I remember you trying to help me w/ this 4K HDR issue almost a year ago - I had created a post a while back wondering if anybody knew of a fix I hadn't though of...alas, I am still here dealing w/ the same issues.
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post #15 of 27 Old 10-22-2017, 07:10 AM
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this sounds more like an issue with your gaming systems over anything else. My 6011 performs flawlessly with everything running thru it. I recently demoed several systems in combination with Martin Logan electrostatic speakers and including my Motion 40’s. And the Marantz just seemed to pair really well with the Martin Logans. Then I went and began comparing amps and hands down the McIntosh delivered the best and cleanest sound I’ve ever heard. So in the near future I’m adding a McIntosh to my setup, but first I want to try the new 8012 when it’s released.
I know this didn’t help your issue. If you want to know which AVR has the better sound find a magnolia store and compare, or find a good high end AV store nearby. Only your ears can help you on this. Yamaha makes some really nice equipment.

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post #16 of 27 Old 10-22-2017, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jphillips63 View Post
this sounds more like an issue with your gaming systems over anything else. My 6011 performs flawlessly with everything running thru it. I recently demoed several systems in combination with Martin Logan electrostatic speakers and including my Motion 40’s. And the Marantz just seemed to pair really well with the Martin Logans. Then I went and began comparing amps and hands down the McIntosh delivered the best and cleanest sound I’ve ever heard. So in the near future I’m adding a McIntosh to my setup, but first I want to try the new 8012 when it’s released.
I know this didn’t help your issue. If you want to know which AVR has the better sound find a magnolia store and compare, or find a good high end AV store nearby. Only your ears can help you on this. Yamaha makes some really nice equipment.
yeah the gaming systems released firmware a while ago, but nothing to fix these issues. My local magnolia doesn't carry Yamaha, so I can't test it out. I can listen at my friends, but he has significantly different speakers, room acoustics, etc..
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post #17 of 27 Old 10-22-2017, 03:19 PM
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Since I mentioned the point that Yamaha is the only AVR brand that submits their AVR for HDMI/HDCP certification I have received multiple PMs asking more specific questions about this:
For example:
1. How many HDMI testing centers are there? And where are they located?
There are 16 HDMI testing centers worldwide, 1 in Europe, 1 in the USA the other 14 are located in the Orient in Japan, Taiwan, Korea and China.
2. Who runs the HDMI testing centers?
Panasonic, Sony, Phillips and Lattice Semiconductor run these.
3. For an AVR with an HDMI Repeater what does the HDMI/HDCP test cost?
A typical AVR costs $25,000 for the initial test but if it fails then an additional cost of $15,000 is charged for the retest.
4. How long does the HDMI testing take?
The testing period will vary depending upon where the location of testing center is located and their backlog, but typically the period is 5 to 7 weeks longer if a retest is needed.

Conclusions
Due to the expense and time required to run the certification tests now one can more easily understand why the majority of AVR brands decide to do their own self-certification. A key part of the certification testing involves meeting the applicable electrical specs while another crucial part is the HDMI component interoperability (CEC) testing between other brands and component categories. HDMI specifications are under constant changes/updates and it is a significant challenge for the brands to stay current. If the product being submitted is a sync device such as an HD display or a source device such as a Blu-Ray player these products are far more simplified and easier to test then an AVR which uses whats called an HDMI repeater design. The HDMI repeater circuit must take the HDMI/HDCP input stream extract it for audio and video decoding and then re-encode for outputting it while maintaining precise S/W timing specs.

I hope this answers the majority of pending questions, if one has more questions PM me rather than taking bandwidth from AVS.

Just my $0.02...
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post #18 of 27 Old 10-23-2017, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jphillips63 View Post
this sounds more like an issue with your gaming systems over anything else. My 6011 performs flawlessly with everything running thru it. I recently demoed several systems in combination with Martin Logan electrostatic speakers and including my Motion 40’s. And the Marantz just seemed to pair really well with the Martin Logans. Then I went and began comparing amps and hands down the McIntosh delivered the best and cleanest sound I’ve ever heard. So in the near future I’m adding a McIntosh to my setup, but first I want to try the new 8012 when it’s released.
I know this didn’t help your issue. If you want to know which AVR has the better sound find a magnolia store and compare, or find a good high end AV store nearby. Only your ears can help you on this. Yamaha makes some really nice equipment.
Well, I went to Magnolia and tested their Yamaha 5100 processor w/ my same line of tv, with my cables and PS4 - all resolutions and HDR worked. Seems its an issue w/ the Marantz 7012. I think I'm making the change tomorrow. Very strange that I have had these issues for over a year now...
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post #19 of 27 Old 10-24-2017, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
Well, I went to Magnolia and tested their Yamaha 5100 processor w/ my same line of tv, with my cables and PS4 - all resolutions and HDR worked. Seems its an issue w/ the Marantz 7012. I think I'm making the change tomorrow. Very strange that I have had these issues for over a year now...


While there you should had done the same test with the same Marantz AVR as you have now. If the problem still existed then yes swap them, if not then have them help you resolve the issue.


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While there you should had done the same test with the same Marantz AVR as you have now. If the problem still existed then yes swap them, if not then have them help you resolve the issue.


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This was my second 7012 and we were using exact same equipment - I can't imagine its not the 7012?
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post #21 of 27 Old 10-24-2017, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
This was my second 7012 and we were using exact same equipment - I can't imagine its not the 7012?


You wouldn't 100% know unless you and they tried. It's possible yes you'll get same results and then again you may had not gotten the same results. If it had been the latter you and they could had figured out what it took to get it working.


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Why do people want him to try to get marantz to work right? The Yamaha 2070, 3070 and 5100 are all obviously a upgrade over marantz 7012.

Just not seeing the common sense. Now I have no clue how marantz 7012 sounds or works. I have had 7005, 7007, 7008 and 7010. Im sure the 7012 is a ok avr in the right application. Just so many better choices and Yamaha is one of them. To my ears and experience the marantz 7010 was a downgrade in my room from a onkyo rz900 and Yamaha 1070.

Again those are just my tastes with my room. I did like marantz 7010 better then the denon 6300 though.
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post #23 of 27 Old 10-24-2017, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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When I go to do the swap todya, I will see if they can get it to work there - not a bad idea on your part! However, I was using my 6010 and then 7011 exclusively as a pre/pro for about a year, so switching to separates kind of makes sense anyways. Will update again when I get back if you're curious
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post #24 of 27 Old 07-03-2018, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ethos4Lyfe View Post
When I go to do the swap todya, I will see if they can get it to work there - not a bad idea on your part! However, I was using my 6010 and then 7011 exclusively as a pre/pro for about a year, so switching to separates kind of makes sense anyways. Will update again when I get back if you're curious

Replying to this thread I am experiencing the same issues with the Marantz 7012 and a PS4. I am on my 2nd receiver and was wondering if @Ethos4Lyfe got any joy from moving over to the Yamaha?
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post #25 of 27 Old 04-12-2019, 06:37 PM
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Replying to this thread I am experiencing the same issues with the Marantz 7012 and a PS4. I am on my 2nd receiver and was wondering if @Ethos4Lyfe got any joy from moving over to the Yamaha?
You won't find better engineers than Yamaha's. Everything they do, they do it 100%. They lead every field they enter IMHO. Their motor sport products, their musical instruments, their audio gear, they just go above and beyond and push the envelope on everything. I have the Yamaha 3060 and it's an amazing AVR.
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Definitely sounds like a marantz issue. I have the 930d as well and have had two different Denon receivers and two different onkyo's with no video issues at all .no audio dropouts either. I'm in the market for a new a new receiver and there has been a few threads lately that make me wanna stay away from marantz.
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post #27 of 27 Old 04-19-2019, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jsb75 View Post
Definitely sounds like a marantz issue. I have the 930d as well and have had two different Denon receivers and two different onkyo's with no video issues at all .no audio dropouts either. I'm in the market for a new a new receiver and there has been a few threads lately that make me wanna stay away from marantz.
It turned out to be my Sony! I forgot about this thread...basically, the ARC HDMI port had blown out....I only found out months later when my panel broke. They were talking to me over the phone and I explained the issue. He knew right away. I ended up going w/ an LG OLED (had the Magnolia replacement plan), and eventually upgraded to the Marantz 8805 after using the Yammy CXA5100 for about a year. So far, no issues w/ Marantz since getting the new TV
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