Marantz AV8805 15.2 XLR Pre/Pro Official Thread - Page 144 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2015Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #4291 of 4386 Old 11-12-2019, 09:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
madhuski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,763
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1414 Post(s)
Liked: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by jch2 View Post
I have three 6.1 setups in my house (great room, basement, and master bedroom). I just upgraded the great room to 7.2.8 (7.2.6 + CH + VoG), and used the "unified layout" for Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, and Auro3D recommended by Denon & Marantz (D+M) as supported by the Denon AVR-X8500H and Marantz AV8805.

My current great room equipment:
1) Speakers: Definitive Technology BP2000 mains, CLR2000 center, Di 5.5BPS surrounds and surround backs, UIW BPZ/A heights and CH, and Di 8R TM and VoG. Most of this is older DT stuff (late 1990s) that is better than anything they've made since. I really love the way the bipolar speakers sound and make the walls and ceiling vanish into a huge open soundfield.
2) Subwoofers: Two M&K MX-100 subwoofers, but plan on upgrading those next (probably first going to try a pair of sealed Denovo flat packs and Dayton UM18-22s, and go from there).
3) Receiver/Amps: Yamaha RX-A3070 (9 internal amps, could add two more amp channels for max 7.2.4).
4) Displays: LG C8 65" TV and Epson 5050UB projector (just upgraded from Panasonic PT-AE8000U which is headed to the basement). Screen is a motorized 120" Stewart Filmscreen Greyhawk from 2004.
5) Sources: Panasonic UB820 BD, DISH Hopper 3, Apple TV 4k, Fire TV Stick 4k, Chromecast Ultra
6) Power: Monster Power HTPS MkII

I was hoping by now the sub $8k 16-channel prepro surge would be well underway and a winner would have emerged. I was also hoping something with Dirac and HDMI 2.1 would have shown up by now, but looks like not yet. So, I'm still in a holding pattern. But, I'd like to prepare for that and fill the gap temporarily with something I can live with until a viable 16 channel processor is available.

I have a UMIK-1 and REW and regularly measure and tune.

I've been reading for months, and have narrowed down the field to a few options to get to 15 channels of amplification for bed+heights and amps for 2-4 subs.

Here are my thoughts on options:

1) Get a Denon AVR-X8500H and wait a couple years to see what shakes out for 16 channel processors and 15 channel amps. I can defer the amp purchase until I really need it, and retask the Denon to the basement or master bedroom when I do.

Or, get a Marantz AV8805 (I can get a great deal on it) and wait a couple of years until a 16-channel processor is available, and also get some amps that I would probably keep when I swap out to a 16-channel processor in a few years. So, here are my thoughts on amps:

2) maybe some good proven inexpensive starter amps that I might keep or resell and upgrade if I don't think they are keepers. I'm leaning towards the Emotiva A-700 (7x110) for good power for bed layer and A-800 (8x50) adequate for heights. I know the A-800 also doubles as a house audio amp but it has inputs per channel. And the pair of amps works and maps perfectly for 15 channels. Amp cost, around $1200, or about $80/channel.

3) Get some proven amps that will be good for a long time: an Emotiva XPA-7 Gen 3 (7x200) for bed layer and either a custom XPA-8-0-4S for heights or an XPA-11 because it will have better resale than XPA-8-0-4S. Maybe use the three extra high power channels for sub duty. Cost $4200 list plus some discount from my dealer, about $200 / channel.

4) I could do the same thing as above but with Monoprice Monolith 7x and 11x (basically ATI) for $4,100 and no discount, $227 per channel.

5) I could go all out for ATI nCores: ATI AT527NC and AT528NC for $8,000, dealer cost about $5,000 (not sure what discount I can get). At list that's $533/channel so it's probably not an option. But I've heard these sound awesome and might be the last amps I'll ever need.

6) Get the best bang for the buck I can get with pro gear and give it a try. I've got a current deal offer for 5x Behringer NX4-6000 amps for $2,000. Those are 4x440, but I think that's a peak rating, so more like 4x220 continuous. If you bridge the 4 channels down to 2 you basically get an NX6000. So, that's 20 channels of amplification, or $100 / channel. I could use one for LCR, (with a spare channel, this will give the front 3 a little extra power with one channel not driven), one for surrounds and backs, one for heights, one for tops +CH, and one bridged for two 4 ohm subs. The power is overkill but the price is awesome. I know I might need to fan mod them to be quiet, but I'm comfortable with that (I build my own PCs). Although I've heard mixed reports the NX6000 fans are not actually as loud as the old iNukes or the NX3000s so it might not be needed. I am a little worried about hiss through speakers because of low S/N, and also NX4-6000 takes a 0.775V max input signal and the AV8805 puts out 2.4V so I'd have to turn the gains and the amps way down. Does anyone use Behringer NU or NX for full range duty with their AV8805? Any noise issues?

I am thrifty and like to spend money on home theater wisely (i.e. bang for the buck). I will spend extra money on things that really make a difference. I don't mind taking some risks, but I'm not an early adopter. I like my HT equipment, audio equipment, smart home equipment, to just work. I don't mind working with companies on warranty, as long as they honor it. I don't mind paying extra for good service.

I'm leaning towards the 5x NX4-6000. I have until Nov 13 to decide what to do.

What are your thoughts? Please feel free to share ideas I haven't thought of, facts/measurements, and most importantly, your opinions. I have been around a long time and learned a lot, but I'm always open minded and always learning more. I love sharing my passion and knowledge with others and contribute frequently to help others. So, please share your thoughts. I promise I will listen and keep an open mind.

Thank you!

-J.C.

Lot to chew on here - quick question, do you have a budget right now or is it a fluid thing depending on what makes sense and what direction you go in?

Selling in AVS classifieds
FS: McIntosh MX-160 Processor
madhuski is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4292 of 4386 Old 11-12-2019, 10:14 AM
Member
 
jch2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Send a message via Skype™ to jch2
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
Lot to chew on here - quick question, do you have a budget right now or is it a fluid thing depending on what makes sense and what direction you go in?
I don't really have a budget. What I spend will be based upon good value for the money spent. I can spend as much as I'd like, but I won't spend money unwisely and probably will never spend $20k on a Trinov or Storm processor (even though that's what I want). I tend to wait for years for what I want to reach consumer level pricing with decent quality. For example, I could have bought a 4k projector for $20k 5 years ago, buy waited until a good <$3000 one came out, and went with the Epson 5050UB, not because it is the best, but it is very good for the price.

I'm also waiting for a good 16 channel processor to hit consumer pricing, and I think I'll probably need to wait a few more years, but really want an improvement over my Yamaha now. I want something better than YPAO, better than 11 channels, I want to hear Auromatic upmixing in my room. I've used Yamaha amps and processors for 25 years. But, I'm willing to consider a Denon or Marantz. Yamaha is just falling too far behind. I love what I've seen of the Denon AVR-X8500H and Marantz AV8805 (UI, ease of use, features, quality, warranty, etc), they are both way better than anything Yamaha has to offer.

Great Room: Yamaha RX-A3070, Epson 6050UB, Stewart Greyhawk 120", LG C8 65", DISH H3, Panasonic UB820, ATV4k, FTV4k, 7.2.8: Definitive Tech BP2000, CLR2000, Di 5.5BPS, UIW BPZ/A, Di 8R, and M&K MX-100 / MX-125. Master Bedroom: Yamaha RX-A3010, LG C8 55", DISH 4k Joey, FTV4k, 7.1.2: DT RCS II, RSS II, IW Sub Ref. Basement: Yamaha RX-A3040, Panasonic PT-AE8000U, Panasonic P65VT50, 6.1: DT BP2000, CLR2000, Di 6.5R
jch2 is online now  
post #4293 of 4386 Old 11-12-2019, 10:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bigguyca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: East Turkestan
Posts: 1,872
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1193 Post(s)
Liked: 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by jch2 View Post


I have until Nov 13 to decide what to do.

-J.C.

Change the date if at all possible. Black Friday (and Monday) is coming. Some gear may not be less, but likely some will. If discounts are important to you it makes no sense to buy electronics just a few weeks before the biggest discount time of the year.

Monoprice had a lot of good deals around Prime Day. Perhaps that will be repeated, or perhaps not... Having deadlines, getting the best prices, and making really good decisions are always in conflict.

Denon/Marantz/Yamaha are in a holding pattern until their products have HDMI 2.1 next year. That's not a judgement on the value of HDMI 2.1, it's just reality. Low price is what will move product at this point.
bigguyca is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4294 of 4386 Old 11-12-2019, 10:45 AM
Member
 
jch2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Send a message via Skype™ to jch2
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jch2 View Post
I have until Nov 13 to decide what to do about the NX4-6000 offer on the table.
Change the date if at all possible. Black Friday (and Monday) is coming. Some gear may not be less, but likely some will. If discounts are important to you it makes no sense to buy electronics just a few weeks before the biggest discount time of the year.

Monoprice had a lot of good deals around Prime Day. Perhaps that will be repeated, or perhaps not... Having deadlines, getting the best prices, and making really good decisions are always in conflict.

Denon/Marantz/Yamaha are in a holding pattern until their products have HDMI 2.1 next year. That's not a judgement on the value of HDMI 2.1, it's just reality. Low price is what will move product at this point.
Yes, I'm working on quotes from other Behringer suppliers for a same or similar offer and without the deadline. I don't think I'll get a better deal on the AV8805 than what I have available now, so really my search now is how best to get to 15 channels of amplification.

-J.C.

Great Room: Yamaha RX-A3070, Epson 6050UB, Stewart Greyhawk 120", LG C8 65", DISH H3, Panasonic UB820, ATV4k, FTV4k, 7.2.8: Definitive Tech BP2000, CLR2000, Di 5.5BPS, UIW BPZ/A, Di 8R, and M&K MX-100 / MX-125. Master Bedroom: Yamaha RX-A3010, LG C8 55", DISH 4k Joey, FTV4k, 7.1.2: DT RCS II, RSS II, IW Sub Ref. Basement: Yamaha RX-A3040, Panasonic PT-AE8000U, Panasonic P65VT50, 6.1: DT BP2000, CLR2000, Di 6.5R
jch2 is online now  
post #4295 of 4386 Old 11-13-2019, 01:33 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Waboman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Leaky Tiki
Posts: 17,157
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7230 Post(s)
Liked: 16437
New 14 minute update.

This update improves overall performance and stability.
audiofan1 likes this.

__________________________________________________
Take life with a grain of salt... a slice of lime, and a shot of tequila
Waboman is online now  
post #4296 of 4386 Old 11-13-2019, 10:18 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
Industry Insider
 
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 24,908
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6846 Post(s)
Liked: 6841
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
Change the date if at all possible. Black Friday (and Monday) is coming. Some gear may not be less, but likely some will. If discounts are important to you it makes no sense to buy electronics just a few weeks before the biggest discount time of the year.
You nevber know when the best price of the year is. I have seen some items best priced at Black Friday compared to closeout time. I have seen it where the best price was two weeks before BF, that was just once though....lol.
Cleveland Plasma is offline  
post #4297 of 4386 Old 11-13-2019, 11:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bigguyca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: East Turkestan
Posts: 1,872
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1193 Post(s)
Liked: 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
You nevber know when the best price of the year is. I have seen some items best priced at Black Friday compared to closeout time. I have seen it where the best price was two weeks before BF, that was just once though....lol.

I fully agree with you. There are exceptions to every "rule."

For example, this year Monoprice had some great prices on their Monolith subs in the period around Prime Day.

Getting multiple quotes is best anytime of year of course. Think first of the dealers who frequent this forum.
355F1 likes this.
bigguyca is offline  
post #4298 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 05:11 AM
Senior Member
 
audiomanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 365
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Hi all.

I want to utilize all my XLR pre-outs on my 8805 and I will be using XLR cable for all speakers. My power amp I use for my Atmos speakers only has RCA inputs. So I thought perhaps I can purchase XLR to RCA interconnect cables or buy an adapter for those 4 channels and that would allow me to utilize all my XLR connections on my 8805.

I've read about the voltage differences such as XLR sends out a 4V signal as opposed to RCA which has a 2V signal. Would this do any damage to my power amp in the short or long run?
I understand I wont hear really any differences but I can live with it.

Would buying 4 adapters be more cost effective than buying 4 interconnects? Is there any losses in volume by going this route? Would I need to turn up my Atmos speakers a little louder after a re-calibration?

Or would it be better overall to just use an RCA to RCA cable and keeping it as it is now. Just get the XLR cables for the mains, centre, surrounds and back surrounds? Again would there be any volume decreases and therefore would need to turn it up?

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

audiomanz
audiomanz is offline  
post #4299 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 05:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave-T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Arlington, Va.
Posts: 1,607
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1175 Post(s)
Liked: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
New 14 minute update.

This update improves overall performance and stability.
Got to love those informative explanations of what the firmware includes, so much information. I just got my Audio calibrated my Jeff from AccuCalav on Sunday and am very happy with the results without using Audyessy. I never knew how much Audyseey killed everything. This may be a stupid question but if I do the firmware update can it mess-up the results of my audio calibrationI just had done? I mean can the update do something that may change the sound?
Dave-T is offline  
post #4300 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 05:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
Got to love those informative explanations of what the firmware includes, so much information. I just got my Audio calibrated my Jeff from AccuCalav on Sunday and am very happy with the results without using Audyessy. I never knew how much Audyseey killed everything. This may be a stupid question but if I do the firmware update can it mess-up the results of my audio calibrationI just had done? I mean can the update do something that may change the sound?


Take pictures of all the important settings just in case, you should anyway, things can happen.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Leeliemix is online now  
post #4301 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 05:42 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Franin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,663
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3372 Post(s)
Liked: 2222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
Got to love those informative explanations of what the firmware includes, so much information. I just got my Audio calibrated my Jeff from AccuCalav on Sunday and am very happy with the results without using Audyessy. I never knew how much Audyseey killed everything. This may be a stupid question but if I do the firmware update can it mess-up the results of my audio calibrationI just had done? I mean can the update do something that may change the sound?
I agree it would be nice if they actually gave us a detailed explanation.

_________________________

God Bless!
Equipment: Bose Soundbar; 1951 Philco Model 50-T701 Black and White tabletop TV;Projection :HANIMEX ZOOM 8 MM PROJECTOR
Franin is offline  
post #4302 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 05:46 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Franin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,663
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3372 Post(s)
Liked: 2222
Found it

Just went to Marantz AV8805 Japan site

AV8805 Firmware Update

Thank you for your continued support of Marantz products.
We provide the latest firmware to make the product more comfortable to use.

Firmware improvements

■ November 13, 2019

[Version: 7500-9070-9123-0025

The problem that Source Rename and Sound Mode returned to the default settings under certain conditions has been improved
audiofan1 likes this.

_________________________

God Bless!
Equipment: Bose Soundbar; 1951 Philco Model 50-T701 Black and White tabletop TV;Projection :HANIMEX ZOOM 8 MM PROJECTOR
Franin is offline  
post #4303 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 05:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 858
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi all.



I want to utilize all my XLR pre-outs on my 8805 and I will be using XLR cable for all speakers. My power amp I use for my Atmos speakers only has RCA inputs. So I thought perhaps I can purchase XLR to RCA interconnect cables or buy an adapter for those 4 channels and that would allow me to utilize all my XLR connections on my 8805.



I've read about the voltage differences such as XLR sends out a 4V signal as opposed to RCA which has a 2V signal. Would this do any damage to my power amp in the short or long run?

I understand I wont hear really any differences but I can live with it.



Would buying 4 adapters be more cost effective than buying 4 interconnects? Is there any losses in volume by going this route? Would I need to turn up my Atmos speakers a little louder after a re-calibration?



Or would it be better overall to just use an RCA to RCA cable and keeping it as it is now. Just get the XLR cables for the mains, centre, surrounds and back surrounds? Again would there be any volume decreases and therefore would need to turn it up?



Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.



audiomanz


Usually best to use xlr where you have xlr at both ends and rca where you dont have xlr at both ends but do have rca. Many use xlr for some and rca for other channels, works just like its supposed to. Auto setup will sort out differences.
giomania likes this.
Leeliemix is online now  
post #4304 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 06:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave-T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Arlington, Va.
Posts: 1,607
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1175 Post(s)
Liked: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post
Found it

Just went to Marantz AV8805 Japan site

AV8805 Firmware Update

Thank you for your continued support of Marantz products.
We provide the latest firmware to make the product more comfortable to use.

Firmware improvements

■ November 13, 2019

[Version: 7500-9070-9123-0025

The problem that Source Rename and Sound Mode returned to the default settings under certain conditions has been improved
Nice Find
355F1 likes this.
Dave-T is offline  
post #4305 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 09:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bigguyca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: East Turkestan
Posts: 1,872
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1193 Post(s)
Liked: 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi all.

I want to utilize all my XLR pre-outs on my 8805 and I will be using XLR cable for all speakers. My power amp I use for my Atmos speakers only has RCA inputs. So I thought perhaps I can purchase XLR to RCA interconnect cables or buy an adapter for those 4 channels and that would allow me to utilize all my XLR connections on my 8805.

I've read about the voltage differences such as XLR sends out a 4V signal as opposed to RCA which has a 2V signal. Would this do any damage to my power amp in the short or long run?
I understand I wont hear really any differences but I can live with it.

Would buying 4 adapters be more cost effective than buying 4 interconnects? Is there any losses in volume by going this route? Would I need to turn up my Atmos speakers a little louder after a re-calibration?

Or would it be better overall to just use an RCA to RCA cable and keeping it as it is now. Just get the XLR cables for the mains, centre, surrounds and back surrounds? Again would there be any volume decreases and therefore would need to turn it up?

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

audiomanz

See the part in bold if you want to skip to the recommendation;

The (+) pin of the XLR output (pin 2) is the same signal as the RCA output and has the same voltage. Essentially these two outputs are connected together inside the AV8805. The XLR output to RCA input converter will simply connect the (+) pin of the XLR output to the RCA input. There is no problem with voltage levels or potential damage assuming of course that the converter is properly made, however...

The (-) XLR output pin (pin 3) has the (+) output inverted, that is for example, at the instant that the + output is +.8V the - output is -.8V. The unit with the XLR input combines these two signals with the result being 1.6V at that instant in this example.

A converter might just leave the pin 3 input open at the receiving end or not connect to pin 3 at either end. This is the preferred connection. If the converter connects the pin 3 to ground or pin 1 or the shield, depending on the configuration, at either end, then the (-) XLR output of the AV8805 is being connected to ground. This represents a heavy load on the output circuit and the AV8805 could be damaged.

All of this said, it would be simplest, and avoid any potential problems with overloads on the AV8805 output circuits, to use RCA cables to connect from AVR8805 to RCA inputs on the amplifier that lacks XLR inputs.

If for some reason that connection results in hum or other issues then an adapter could be an option. Look for an adapter that does not connect pin 3 of the XLR output on the AV8805 to anything.
giomania and Leeliemix like this.
bigguyca is offline  
post #4306 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 09:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
raynist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 4,699
Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2152 Post(s)
Liked: 2338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jch2 View Post
I have three 6.1 setups in my house (great room, basement, and master bedroom). I just upgraded the great room to 7.2.8 (7.2.6 + CH + VoG), and used the "unified layout" for Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, and Auro3D recommended by Denon & Marantz (D+M) as supported by the Denon AVR-X8500H and Marantz AV8805.

My current great room equipment:
1) Speakers: Definitive Technology BP2000 mains, CLR2000 center, Di 5.5BPS surrounds and surround backs, UIW BPZ/A heights and CH, and Di 8R TM and VoG. Most of this is older DT stuff (late 1990s) that is better than anything they've made since. I really love the way the bipolar speakers sound and make the walls and ceiling vanish into a huge open soundfield.
2) Subwoofers: Two M&K MX-100 subwoofers, but plan on upgrading those next (probably first going to try a pair of sealed Denovo flat packs and Dayton UM18-22s, and go from there).
3) Receiver/Amps: Yamaha RX-A3070 (9 internal amps, could add two more amp channels for max 7.2.4).
4) Displays: LG C8 65" TV and Epson 5050UB projector (just upgraded from Panasonic PT-AE8000U which is headed to the basement). Screen is a motorized 120" Stewart Filmscreen Greyhawk from 2004.
5) Sources: Panasonic UB820 BD, DISH Hopper 3, Apple TV 4k, Fire TV Stick 4k, Chromecast Ultra
6) Power: Monster Power HTPS MkII

I was hoping by now the sub $8k 16-channel prepro surge would be well underway and a winner would have emerged. I was also hoping something with Dirac and HDMI 2.1 would have shown up by now, but looks like not yet. So, I'm still in a holding pattern. But, I'd like to prepare for that and fill the gap temporarily with something I can live with until a viable 16 channel processor is available.

I have a UMIK-1 and REW and regularly measure and tune.

I've been reading for months, and have narrowed down the field to a few options to get to 15 channels of amplification for bed+heights and amps for 2-4 subs.

Here are my thoughts on options:

1) Get a Denon AVR-X8500H and wait a couple years to see what shakes out for 16 channel processors and 15 channel amps. I can defer the amp purchase until I really need it, and retask the Denon to the basement or master bedroom when I do.

Or, get a Marantz AV8805 (I can get a great deal on it) and wait a couple of years until a 16-channel processor is available, and also get some amps that I would probably keep when I swap out to a 16-channel processor in a few years. So, here are my thoughts on amps:

2) maybe some good proven inexpensive starter amps that I might keep or resell and upgrade if I don't think they are keepers. I'm leaning towards the Emotiva A-700 (7x110) for good power for bed layer and A-800 (8x50) adequate for heights. I know the A-800 also doubles as a house audio amp but it has inputs per channel. And the pair of amps works and maps perfectly for 15 channels. Amp cost, around $1200, or about $80/channel.

3) Get some proven amps that will be good for a long time: an Emotiva XPA-7 Gen 3 (7x200) for bed layer and either a custom XPA-8-0-4S for heights or an XPA-11 because it will have better resale than XPA-8-0-4S. Maybe use the three extra high power channels for sub duty. Cost $4200 list plus some discount from my dealer, about $200 / channel.

4) I could do the same thing as above but with Monoprice Monolith 7x and 11x (basically ATI) for $4,100 and no discount, $227 per channel.

5) I could go all out for ATI nCores: ATI AT527NC and AT528NC for $8,000, dealer cost about $5,000 (not sure what discount I can get). At list that's $533/channel so it's probably not an option. But I've heard these sound awesome and might be the last amps I'll ever need.

6) Get the best bang for the buck I can get with pro gear and give it a try. I've got a current deal offer for 5x Behringer NX4-6000 amps for $2,000. Those are 4x440, but I think that's a peak rating, so more like 4x220 continuous. If you bridge the 4 channels down to 2 you basically get an NX6000. So, that's 20 channels of amplification, or $100 / channel. I could use one for LCR, (with a spare channel, this will give the front 3 a little extra power with one channel not driven), one for surrounds and backs, one for heights, one for tops +CH, and one bridged for two 4 ohm subs. The power is overkill but the price is awesome. I know I might need to fan mod them to be quiet, but I'm comfortable with that (I build my own PCs). Although I've heard mixed reports the NX6000 fans are not actually as loud as the old iNukes or the NX3000s so it might not be needed. I am a little worried about hiss through speakers because of low S/N, and also NX4-6000 takes a 0.775V max input signal and the AV8805 puts out 2.4V so I'd have to turn the gains and the amps way down. Does anyone use Behringer NU or NX for full range duty with their AV8805? Any noise issues?

I am thrifty and like to spend money on home theater wisely (i.e. bang for the buck). I will spend extra money on things that really make a difference. I don't mind taking some risks, but I'm not an early adopter. I like my HT equipment, audio equipment, smart home equipment, to just work. I don't mind working with companies on warranty, as long as they honor it. I don't mind paying extra for good service.

I'm leaning towards the 5x NX4-6000. I have until Nov 13 to decide what to do.

What are your thoughts? Please feel free to share ideas I haven't thought of, facts/measurements, and most importantly, your opinions. I have been around a long time and learned a lot, but I'm always open minded and always learning more. I love sharing my passion and knowledge with others and contribute frequently to help others. So, please share your thoughts. I promise I will listen and keep an open mind.

Thank you!

-J.C.
I am using 2 of the NX4-6000 amps for my atmos speakers and surround speakers. I hear no hiss (they are 95db efficient speakers). I also did not modify the fans and can’t hear them in my room. They are about 8-10 feet away behind a couch.
raynist is offline  
post #4307 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 08:14 PM
Senior Member
 
audiomanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 365
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
Usually best to use xlr where you have xlr at both ends and rca where you dont have xlr at both ends but do have rca. Many use xlr for some and rca for other channels, works just like its supposed to. Auto setup will sort out differences.
Thanks Leeliemix for your comments. I'm thinking of going this route now since I read another members post to my question and pretty much spelled it out.

audiomanz
audiomanz is offline  
post #4308 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 08:18 PM
Senior Member
 
audiomanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 365
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
See the part in bold if you want to skip to the recommendation;

The (+) pin of the XLR output (pin 2) is the same signal as the RCA output and has the same voltage. Essentially these two outputs are connected together inside the AV8805. The XLR output to RCA input converter will simply connect the (+) pin of the XLR output to the RCA input. There is no problem with voltage levels or potential damage assuming of course that the converter is properly made, however...

The (-) XLR output pin (pin 3) has the (+) output inverted, that is for example, at the instant that the + output is +.8V the - output is -.8V. The unit with the XLR input combines these two signals with the result being 1.6V at that instant in this example.

A converter might just leave the pin 3 input open at the receiving end or not connect to pin 3 at either end. This is the preferred connection. If the converter connects the pin 3 to ground or pin 1 or the shield, depending on the configuration, at either end, then the (-) XLR output of the AV8805 is being connected to ground. This represents a heavy load on the output circuit and the AV8805 could be damaged.

All of this said, it would be simplest, and avoid any potential problems with overloads on the AV8805 output circuits, to use RCA cables to connect from AVR8805 to RCA inputs on the amplifier that lacks XLR inputs.

If for some reason that connection results in hum or other issues then an adapter could be an option. Look for an adapter that does not connect pin 3 of the XLR output on the AV8805 to anything.
Thank you very much for this well detailed and informative post bigguyca. I hope to not get hum as I've had great success with no hum using rca cables right now. I'm thinking of just going ahead with the rca's for my Atmos speakers but as you said find an adapter where I can get the company to disable pin 3 of the XLR output to be safe and not potentially damage my 8805. That is not worth the risk.

audiomanz
audiomanz is offline  
post #4309 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 09:19 PM
Senior Member
 
DOC1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 315
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Thank you very much for this well detailed and informative post bigguyca. I hope to not get hum as I've had great success with no hum using rca cables right now. I'm thinking of just going ahead with the rca's for my Atmos speakers but as you said find an adapter where I can get the company to disable pin 3 of the XLR output to be safe and not potentially damage my 8805. That is not worth the risk.

audiomanz
Emotiva just released XLR>RCA adapters for use with their new line of processors which have only XLR outputs. They are properly wired and will work for your purpose.

Here’s a link...

https://emotiva.com/collections/acce...r-interconnect
DOC1963 is online now  
post #4310 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 09:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
Sal1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central FL
Posts: 866
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 543 Post(s)
Liked: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi all.
Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.
audiomanz
These $6.99 each cables from Monoprice should handle the job for you perfectly.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4777

Sony XBR75-X940D, Sony UBP-X800M2 UHD-BD, Xfinity X1 Voice DVR, Marantz AV-7703 Pre/Pro w/Auro, (3) Adcom GFA-545II amps, (2) Adcom GFA-535II amps for ATMOS speakers.
HSU Research 5.2 speaker system (4) HB-1 MK2, (1) HC-1 MK2, (2) STF-2,
Klipsch HT500 satellites (4) for ceiling mounted ATMOS playback
DIY Linux desktop w/Strawberry bit perfect media center. Emotiva Stealth DC-1 DAC
Sal1950 is offline  
post #4311 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 09:43 PM
Senior Member
 
audiomanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 365
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOC1963 View Post
Emotiva just released XLR>RCA adapters for use with their new line of processors which have only XLR outputs. They are properly wired and will work for your purpose.

Here’s a link...

https://emotiva.com/collections/acce...r-interconnect
Hello DOC1963..that is awesome...thanks so much for the link. They are affordable and should do the job for my needs as you said. Very helpful info. I appreciate it.

audiomanz
audiomanz is offline  
post #4312 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 09:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
Sal1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central FL
Posts: 866
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 543 Post(s)
Liked: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hello DOC1963..that is awesome...thanks so much for the link. They are affordable and should do the job for my needs as you said. Very helpful info. I appreciate it.

audiomanz
Beware, those are the wrong configuration. The RCA end needs to be male and the one shown is female.

Sony XBR75-X940D, Sony UBP-X800M2 UHD-BD, Xfinity X1 Voice DVR, Marantz AV-7703 Pre/Pro w/Auro, (3) Adcom GFA-545II amps, (2) Adcom GFA-535II amps for ATMOS speakers.
HSU Research 5.2 speaker system (4) HB-1 MK2, (1) HC-1 MK2, (2) STF-2,
Klipsch HT500 satellites (4) for ceiling mounted ATMOS playback
DIY Linux desktop w/Strawberry bit perfect media center. Emotiva Stealth DC-1 DAC
Sal1950 is offline  
post #4313 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 09:51 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,189
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5543 Post(s)
Liked: 3982
99% of the benefits of XLR fly out the window if you have to use adapters to RCA, so when dealing with devices with RCA connections as an option on both ends I'd just stick with that.
MUDCAT45 likes this.
m. zillch is offline  
post #4314 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 09:54 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,189
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5543 Post(s)
Liked: 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
Usually best to use xlr where you have xlr at both ends and rca where you dont have xlr at both ends but do have rca.
Yup. Adding adapters along the way means adding possible points of failure and oxidation points. Never use extenders nor adapters when you have the option to use a straight, single run.
m. zillch is offline  
post #4315 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 09:55 PM
Senior Member
 
audiomanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 365
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
Beware, those are the wrong configuration. The RCA end needs to be male and the one shown is female.
Hi Sal1950...that configuration is correct. I would plug my rca male end to the female end and then into my power amp. The XLR male is also correct.

Thanks for your suggestions btw. Those monoprice cables as well would also do the trick.

audiomanz
audiomanz is offline  
post #4316 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 10:00 PM
Senior Member
 
audiomanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 365
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
99% of the benefits of XLR fly out the window if you have to use adapters to RCA, so when dealing with devices with RCA connections as an option on both ends I'd just stick with that.
Or I guess buy another power amp with XLR connections is a more costly option....was just hoping to find a cost effective solution in wanting to use all my XLR preouts on my Marantz 8805..I heard there would be no discernible sound differences so I would gain nothing but not lose anything as well... if you mix XLR and RCA that there is possible hum issues as well..I want to avoid this at all costs..thanks for your thoughts.

audiomanz
audiomanz is offline  
post #4317 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 10:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
Sal1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central FL
Posts: 866
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 543 Post(s)
Liked: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi Sal1950...that configuration is correct. I would plug my rca male end to the female end and then into my power amp. The XLR male is also correct.

Thanks for your suggestions btw. Those monoprice cables as well would also do the trick.

audiomanz
You have me confused, do you want to use the cable as just an adapter for your current cables?


Otherwise both your 8805 and your power amp have female connectors on them and require a cable with male connectors at both ends.

Sony XBR75-X940D, Sony UBP-X800M2 UHD-BD, Xfinity X1 Voice DVR, Marantz AV-7703 Pre/Pro w/Auro, (3) Adcom GFA-545II amps, (2) Adcom GFA-535II amps for ATMOS speakers.
HSU Research 5.2 speaker system (4) HB-1 MK2, (1) HC-1 MK2, (2) STF-2,
Klipsch HT500 satellites (4) for ceiling mounted ATMOS playback
DIY Linux desktop w/Strawberry bit perfect media center. Emotiva Stealth DC-1 DAC
Sal1950 is offline  
post #4318 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 10:04 PM
Senior Member
 
audiomanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 365
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
Yup. Adding adapters along the way means adding possible points of failure and oxidation points. Never use extenders nor adapters when you have the option to use a straight, single run.
As I mentioned earlier in a reply I dont want to run into any hum issues if I go XLR for my mains, centre, surrounds and back surrounds and use RCA cables for my power amp for my Atmos speakers. Is oxidation easy to see on connectors? If so, I could do a check every so often of the adapters.

audiomanz
audiomanz is offline  
post #4319 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 10:29 PM
Member
 
jch2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Send a message via Skype™ to jch2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi all.
Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.
audiomanz
These $6.99 each cables from Monoprice should handle the job for you perfectly.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4777
Those Monoprice cables short pin 3 to ground. They connect both pins 1 (ground) and pin 3 (cold) to shield. This is precisely the problem that should be avoided as it can stress or damage XLR output circuitry on some equipment. Use the Emotiva cable or something like it that leaves pin 3 unconnected, or build your own cable: pin 1 (ground) to RCA barrel/shield, pin 2 (hot) to RCA center, pin 3 (cold) unconnected.
giomania likes this.

Great Room: Yamaha RX-A3070, Epson 6050UB, Stewart Greyhawk 120", LG C8 65", DISH H3, Panasonic UB820, ATV4k, FTV4k, 7.2.8: Definitive Tech BP2000, CLR2000, Di 5.5BPS, UIW BPZ/A, Di 8R, and M&K MX-100 / MX-125. Master Bedroom: Yamaha RX-A3010, LG C8 55", DISH 4k Joey, FTV4k, 7.1.2: DT RCS II, RSS II, IW Sub Ref. Basement: Yamaha RX-A3040, Panasonic PT-AE8000U, Panasonic P65VT50, 6.1: DT BP2000, CLR2000, Di 6.5R
jch2 is online now  
post #4320 of 4386 Old 11-14-2019, 10:37 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
m. zillch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,189
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5543 Post(s)
Liked: 3982
There is a lot of mythology behind balanced connections. I think they are often "over sold" for most consumer purposes with short runs. They have subtle benefits regarding noise and hum but only in some circumstances. The myths arise because people see pros use them so they assume they "sound better". They (pros) are much more likely to reap the benefits because they use markedly longer runs in studios and on stage, but a typical consumer usually uses 1M, maybe 2M runs if everything is in the same stack, and the likelihood of the wires acting as antennas and picking up additional RFI/EMI noise along the run is much lower. Sure we have noise in prepros, sources, and amps but it's predominantly thermal noise [the noise all electrical gear has] and XLRs, if working properly, will conduct that noise quite perfectly from point A to B.

"That noise you hear in your system is from the wires, ya know" is the goto wire company/dealer scaremongering ploy. There is a grain of truth to it so it is easy for them to rig up demos to con people.

The sound is otherwise 100% identical, XLR to RCA, in all "sound quality" regards so when you read a silly reviewer talking about "better imaging by using XLRs" that's baloney and their imagination.

If you use RCAs and find no noise or hum issues, which is usually the case, any investment in converting to gear using XLRs would be a waste. Also keep in mind there are many reasons for hum and noise so going balanced isn't a sure bet you'd be cured of that noise.

Oxidation is hard to see but will be obvious because the sound cuts out. Often simply breaking and remaking the connection will scrape the grime off and you'll be good to go for another year, or you can use contact cleaner spray like Deoxit.

The two ends of XLRs are different, by the way, and with locking only on one end, not the other:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_co...connectors.jpg

Last edited by m. zillch; 11-14-2019 at 11:42 PM.
m. zillch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off