Marantz AV8805 15.2 XLR Pre/Pro Official Thread - Page 145 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4321 of 4386 Old 11-15-2019, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jch2 View Post
Those Monoprice cables short pin 3 to ground. They connect both pins 1 (ground) and pin 3 (cold) to shield. This is precisely the problem that should be avoided as it can stress or damage XLR output circuitry on some equipment. Use the Emotiva cable or something like it that leaves pin 3 unconnected, or build your own cable: pin 1 (ground) to RCA barrel/shield, pin 2 (hot) to RCA center, pin 3 (cold) unconnected.
Thanks for your comments. An earlier post alerted me to these Emotiva adapters and it was the proper configuration to not do any damage to my preamp/processor. On the monoprice website there are many positive reviews for this cable. I think I'll pass now. Thanks.

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post #4322 of 4386 Old 11-15-2019, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Sal1950 View Post
You have me confused, do you want to use the cable as just an adapter for your current cables?


Otherwise both your 8805 and your power amp have female connectors on them and require a cable with male connectors at both ends.
Thats correct Sal1950. I would just use my current rca cables connected to an adapter and plugged from my XLR pre-outs, rca cable connected on the other end and plugged into my power amps rca input.

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post #4323 of 4386 Old 11-15-2019, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
See the part in bold if you want to skip to the recommendation;

The (+) pin of the XLR output (pin 2) is the same signal as the RCA output and has the same voltage. Essentially these two outputs are connected together inside the AV8805. The XLR output to RCA input converter will simply connect the (+) pin of the XLR output to the RCA input. There is no problem with voltage levels or potential damage assuming of course that the converter is properly made, however...

The (-) XLR output pin (pin 3) has the (+) output inverted, that is for example, at the instant that the + output is +.8V the - output is -.8V. The unit with the XLR input combines these two signals with the result being 1.6V at that instant in this example.

A converter might just leave the pin 3 input open at the receiving end or not connect to pin 3 at either end. This is the preferred connection. If the converter connects the pin 3 to ground or pin 1 or the shield, depending on the configuration, at either end, then the (-) XLR output of the AV8805 is being connected to ground. This represents a heavy load on the output circuit and the AV8805 could be damaged.

All of this said, it would be simplest, and avoid any potential problems with overloads on the AV8805 output circuits, to use RCA cables to connect from AVR8805 to RCA inputs on the amplifier that lacks XLR inputs.

If for some reason that connection results in hum or other issues then an adapter could be an option. Look for an adapter that does not connect pin 3 of the XLR output on the AV8805 to anything.
bigguyca obviously knows more about XLR than I do, but I'll chime in with this. I wanted to use XLRs with my new Emotiva XPA-5 gen 3. Ran Audyssey and discovered the Emo uses the Euro spec pin configuration on their amplifier XLR inputs, and may be the only US-based manufacturer to do so. (Strangely, their prepros and receivers don't use the Euro XLR spec.) This results in a "reversed phase" error in Audyssey. The only solution is to reverse the red and black leads of the speaker wires; Euro spec XLR cables don't exist in this country that I could find. Since my other amp is an RCA-only Emotiva UPA-700, SteveH (who sold me the XPA-5) suggested I would be better off with all RCAs anyway. So I bought some new high-quality RCAs and I'm not going to worry about XLR.
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post #4324 of 4386 Old 11-15-2019, 09:42 AM
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8805 amp outputs (not to be confused with its single pair of inputs for an external device):


Emotiva multich. amp XLR inputs:


Clearly you'd want different, er, "genders" on the two ends, not the same.
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post #4325 of 4386 Old 11-15-2019, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
See the part in bold if you want to skip to the recommendation;

The (+) pin of the XLR output (pin 2) is the same signal as the RCA output and has the same voltage. Essentially these two outputs are connected together inside the AV8805. The XLR output to RCA input converter will simply connect the (+) pin of the XLR output to the RCA input. There is no problem with voltage levels or potential damage assuming of course that the converter is properly made, however...

The (-) XLR output pin (pin 3) has the (+) output inverted, that is for example, at the instant that the + output is +.8V the - output is -.8V. The unit with the XLR input combines these two signals with the result being 1.6V at that instant in this example.

A converter might just leave the pin 3 input open at the receiving end or not connect to pin 3 at either end. This is the preferred connection. If the converter connects the pin 3 to ground or pin 1 or the shield, depending on the configuration, at either end, then the (-) XLR output of the AV8805 is being connected to ground. This represents a heavy load on the output circuit and the AV8805 could be damaged.

All of this said, it would be simplest, and avoid any potential problems with overloads on the AV8805 output circuits, to use RCA cables to connect from AVR8805 to RCA inputs on the amplifier that lacks XLR inputs.

If for some reason that connection results in hum or other issues then an adapter could be an option. Look for an adapter that does not connect pin 3 of the XLR output on the AV8805 to anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jch2 View Post
Those Monoprice cables short pin 3 to ground. They connect both pins 1 (ground) and pin 3 (cold) to shield. This is precisely the problem that should be avoided as it can stress or damage XLR output circuitry on some equipment. Use the Emotiva cable or something like it that leaves pin 3 unconnected, or build your own cable: pin 1 (ground) to RCA barrel/shield, pin 2 (hot) to RCA center, pin 3 (cold) unconnected.
I checked my collection of XLR to RCA adapter cables, and (interestingly) found the TecNex SC3XR (XLR Male to RCA Male) cable that came with my Seaton SubMersive subwoofers, have the following connection:

XLR Pin 1 not connected
XLR Pin 2 to RCA Center
XLR Pin 3 to RCA Shield

I used these for years to connect my (unbalanced, RCA only) Denon AVR-4311CI to my balanced XLR SubMersives. Now I am planning to implement a miniDSP 2x4 HD into my setup, so will need to convert from RCA to XLR after the miniDSP, as the XLR cables going to my subwoofers are in conduit.

I can re-solder these adapters to wire them correctly, but I am curious why they are not correct in the first place? Maybe because they are designed to go from RCA to XLR? I am probably reaching here.

I am also wondering what is the best wiring option for the miniDSP (RCA input and output) with the AV8805, since I have balanced XLR cables to the subwoofers.

Thanks.

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post #4326 of 4386 Old 11-17-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
The sound is otherwise 100% identical, XLR to RCA, in all "sound quality" regards so when you read a silly reviewer talking about "better imaging by using XLRs" that's baloney and their imagination.

If you use RCAs and find no noise or hum issues, which is usually the case, any investment in converting to gear using XLRs would be a waste. Also keep in mind there are many reasons for hum and noise so going balanced isn't a sure bet you'd be cured of that noise.
With that said, if you have a fresh system setup you using the XLR or RCA ?
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post #4327 of 4386 Old 11-17-2019, 09:17 AM
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@Cleveland Plasma i realize you are not asking me, but with XLR i dont have to be nearly as careful with what runs where in the cable chaos behind the electronics to avoid buzzing and such.
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post #4328 of 4386 Old 11-17-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
With that said, if you have a fresh system setup you using the XLR or RCA ?
Truly fully balanced communication, from sender to receiver without conversion along the way, is better in theory. In practice, especially with the typical 1-2 M runs of wires home systems usually use, there is often no discernible difference at all. Also, as I mentioned, those theoretical (and on some occasions actually discernible) benefits fly out the window if you are forced to use an adapter to RCA somewhere along the route, in which case you might as well be using RCA to RCA since (besides not having to buy adapters) there are fewer junctions and each junction is a possible point of failure, oxidation, signal loss, and contact failure if not properly seated.

In my experience gear using truly balanced connections costs markedly more than AVRs and prepros using only RCAs, as well as source devices like disc players and power amps, so designing a system from scratch will likely be more costly if it is XLR, plus your selection of possible candidates for gear when designing the system will plummet if you have to ignore gear using just RCAs.

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post #4329 of 4386 Old 11-17-2019, 12:42 PM
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Hi all,

Is there any benefit to installing a pair of speakers to use as surround heights along with my Front Height and Rear configuration as my Atmos setup in the Marantz 8805? I see it is possible in the Amp Assign section. Does anyone here use the Marantz 8805 with 6 channels for the heights as opposed to 4 channels? If so, what benefits are you receiving from this type of setup? I was informed that too many speakers going at one time I would lose detail and that it would not sound good in this configruation. Any thoughts are appreciated for sure. Thanks all.

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post #4330 of 4386 Old 11-17-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi all,

Is there any benefit to installing a pair of speakers to use as surround heights along with my Front Height and Rear configuration as my Atmos setup in the Marantz 8805? I see it is possible in the Amp Assign section. Does anyone here use the Marantz 8805 with 6 channels for the heights as opposed to 4 channels? If so, what benefits are you receiving from this type of setup? I was informed that too many speakers going at one time I would lose detail and that it would not sound good in this configruation. Any thoughts are appreciated for sure. Thanks all.

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The point of using Surround Heights along with Front/Rear Height is to optimize for Auro3D playback separately from Atmos / DTS:X content.

Atmos / DTS:X are mixed with the expectation of front/rear overheads for home use, whereas Auro3D ideally calls for heights directly above the corresponding base layer speakers (see diagram below). With the 6 height configuration you describe, you would position front + surround heights as per the Auro3D layout and then have an alternate pair of rear heights that would be active for Atmos / DTS:X playback.

Understand that in this configuration only 4 heights would be active at any given time. Atmos/DTS:X would use front+rear height and Auro3D would use front+surround height.


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post #4331 of 4386 Old 11-17-2019, 08:28 PM
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[QUOTE=batpig;58834678]The point of using Surround Heights along with Front/Rear Height is to optimize for Auro3D playback separately from Atmos / DTS:X content.

Atmos / DTS:X are mixed with the expectation of front/rear overheads for home use, whereas Auro3D ideally calls for heights directly above the corresponding base layer speakers (see diagram below). With the 6 height configuration you describe, you would position front + surround heights as per the Auro3D layout and then have an alternate pair of rear heights that would be active for Atmos / DTS:X playback.

Understand that in this configuration only 4 heights would be active at any given time. Atmos/DTS:X would use front+rear height and Auro3D would use front+surround height.

[/QUOTE;

Thanks batpig for the detailed comment. You are absolutely right on this front. I guess I was aiming more toward atmos by wanting add 2 more channels to my configuration completely leaving out the fact that the surround heights are for Auro-3D and that I wouldnt get more information out my current configuration by adding the extra speakers. It can be done but in my current living space looking at it now I dont think it would be wise to add 2 extra speakers due to my layout of the room. Having 2 front Left and Right Height as well as Rear Left and Right Height speakers is enough for now..11.2 configuration. Thanks again batpig.

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post #4332 of 4386 Old 11-17-2019, 11:10 PM
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Denon/Marantz/Yamaha are in a holding pattern until their products have HDMI 2.1 next year. That's not a judgement on the value of HDMI 2.1, it's just reality. Low price is what will move product at this point.
I'd buy a new Marantz if they had an HDMI 2.1 unit now. I might consider the monoprice unit though if it is out and functioning well before that.
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post #4333 of 4386 Old 11-20-2019, 08:00 PM
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Quick question. When connecting a new source via HDMI to the AV8805 (in my case an Apple TV 4K), do I have to go through the Setup Assistant to get the AV8805 to recognize it?

I’m getting an Apple TV 4K tomorrow and was curious.
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post #4334 of 4386 Old 11-20-2019, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post
Quick question. When connecting a new source via HDMI to the AV8805 (in my case an Apple TV 4K), do I have to go through the Setup Assistant to get the AV8805 to recognize it?

I’m getting an Apple TV 4K tomorrow and was curious.
No need if the previous device going to that port used the same settings (surround modes, etc.) that you want to use with the new device.
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post #4335 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post
No need if the previous device going to that port used the same settings (surround modes, etc.) that you want to use with the new device.
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Hey, no kidding on our avatars!

Re. the HDMI connection. It’s going to be on an HDMI port that’s never been used before. So in order for the AV8805 to recognize it will I need to use the Setup Assistant? I’m guessing yes.
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post #4336 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post
Hey, no kidding on our avatars!



Re. the HDMI connection. It’s going to be on an HDMI port that’s never been used before. So in order for the AV8805 to recognize it will I need to use the Setup Assistant? I’m guessing yes.


No need to run the setup assistant just for a new source, just plug it in and choose the right source input.


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post #4337 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
No need to run the setup assistant just for a new source, just plug it in and choose the right source input.


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Good to know, thank you!
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post #4338 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 08:13 AM
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This morning, Marantz tweeted that they implemented bluetooth transmit services in new firmware updates. Does anyone know if it was enabled on the 8805 and if so, how do you pair bluetooth headphones to it?

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post #4339 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post
Hey, no kidding on our avatars!

Re. the HDMI connection. It’s going to be on an HDMI port that’s never been used before. So in order for the AV8805 to recognize it will I need to use the Setup Assistant? I’m guessing yes.
Oh, well then yes. I guess you are right. You don't need to re-run Audyssey and all that other jazz, so you don't need to do a full setup, but there are decisions such as input level trim [only if it seems too loud or too quiet compared to other inputs], surround mode, and display name [instead of the generic name you can type in your own preference, etc.] you may want to setup. There's no rush to make these decisions in advance so you also can just plug-n-play and see how it goes. That's what I'd do.

Last edited by m. zillch; 11-21-2019 at 11:15 AM.
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post #4340 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mlknez View Post
This morning, Marantz tweeted that they implemented bluetooth transmit services in new firmware updates. Does anyone know if it was enabled on the 8805 and if so, how do you pair bluetooth headphones to it?
Unfortunately not, rather only the new 2019 Denon and Marantz models will receive this update, which btw, isn't being released until sometime next week as that Tweet was released prematurely.
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post #4341 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
No need to run the setup assistant just for a new source, just plug it in and choose the right source input.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post
Good to know, thank you!
A quick addendum -- the input source name you want to use (e.g. "Media Player") may be hidden, so if you try to "plug it in and choose the right source input" you may not be able to! So while you don't need to run the full setup wizard, you may have to go into Input Setup > Hide Source and reveal the source name for use: http://manuals.marantz.com/AV8805/NA...SYjlgyqvko.php

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post #4342 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
A quick addendum -- the input source name you want to use (e.g. "Media Player") may be hidden, so if you try to "plug it in and choose the right source input" you may not be able to! So while you don't need to run the full setup wizard, you may have to go into Input Setup > Hide Source and reveal the source name for use: http://manuals.marantz.com/AV8805/NA...SYjlgyqvko.php


Isnt that just hidden from cycling through/list, i would think the source buttons on the remote bypass that but dont know for sure, never hidden any. But either way if hidden its practical to make it shown again.
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post #4343 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 03:24 PM
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Isnt that just hidden from cycling through/list, i would think the source buttons on the remote bypass that but dont know for sure, never hidden any. But either way if hidden its practical to make it shown again.
The input source buttons do NOT bypass it, if the source is "hidden" it's not accessible at all.

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post #4344 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 03:29 PM
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The input source buttons do NOT bypass it, if the source is "hidden" it's not accessible at all.


Aah, ok did not know that it wasnt just hidden but disabled.
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post #4345 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 07:02 PM
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Is there some kind of debate of AV8805 vs AV8802a that I'm missing?

They might sound the same, but the AV8805 has a lot of additional features and will/should be more future-proof.
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post #4346 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 07:05 PM
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Oh, well then yes. I guess you are right. You don't need to re-run Audyssey and all that other jazz, so you don't need to do a full setup, but there are decisions such as input level trim [only if it seems too loud or too quiet compared to other inputs], surround mode, and display name [instead of the generic name you can type in your own preference, etc.] you may want to setup. There's no rush to make these decisions in advance so you also can just plug-n-play and see how it goes. That's what I'd do.
If it’s doable with just plug n play I’ll try that first. Thanks for your reply.
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post #4347 of 4386 Old 11-21-2019, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
A quick addendum -- the input source name you want to use (e.g. "Media Player") may be hidden, so if you try to "plug it in and choose the right source input" you may not be able to! So while you don't need to run the full setup wizard, you may have to go into Input Setup > Hide Source and reveal the source name for use: http://manuals.marantz.com/AV8805/NA...SYjlgyqvko.php
Good to know! Thanks for sharing.

Currently I don’t have any of the inputs named. And only one of the HDMI inputs is being/has been used (Panasonic UB9000, audio only). So the brand new (currently still in the box) Apple TV 4K streamer will be plugged into a never before used/named HDMI port.

This being the case, can I just plug n play?
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post #4348 of 4386 Old 11-22-2019, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post
This being the case, can I just plug n play?
Turn on the AVP. Spin the input selector knob on the front of the unit, or press the input select buttons on the remote.

It will be obvious which inputs are exposed and which are "hidden".

It will take you less than a minute to go into the INPUT menu and adjust if needed.

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post #4349 of 4386 Old 11-23-2019, 10:01 AM
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Can the 8805 be configured to use an HDMI video from one source & HDMI audio from another source at the same time? Or is it the same configuration as the 8802A where you can only use Analog audio while using an HDMI video source?

Thanks

Mains: Revel Salon2's powered by ATI AT6002
Center: Revel C208
Surrounds: Revel F208
SW: SVS PB 13 Ultra
Amp: Emotiva XPR5 (surrounds & center)
LG 65 B6P & EF9500
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post #4350 of 4386 Old 11-23-2019, 10:45 AM
exm
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As a long time Marantz owner and forum member, I have to admit: I am officially confused! Thought I had everything figured out for my speakers until I started looking into Auro 3D (just out of curiosity).



So first, here is my setup (11.2 speakers)




My TML and TMR are not necessarily Atmos speakers but they can act as such.


When I go into Amp Assign the only way to have all of this functioning is:
Assign Mode 13.1ch

Layout: 5ch & SB
Height Ch: 6ch
Dolby SP: None
Front layout: Front Height
Middle layout: Top Middle
Rear Layout: greyed out


When I go into Levels | Test tone I properly see 11 channels available with Surr. Back R/L greyed out (using Rear Height R/L).


Now when I change my Heigh Ch to 4 Ch I lose my Surr/Rear Heights! So I need to run the 13.1/6ch: I've validated all speakers are working using the Test Tone as well as Multi Ch Stereo



Here are my questions:
- Why do I need to select a 13.1ch/6ch Heights to have my 11 speakers (and not 13) working? It really doesn't make that much sense.

- What mode will actually allow the heights to work? Do I need to use Neural:X over Dolby Surround?

Last edited by exm; 11-23-2019 at 10:48 AM.
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