Marantz AV8805 15.2 XLR Pre/Pro Official Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 3890 Old 01-10-2018, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post
You might want to add the mic / room calibration to the AV 8806 wish list
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...l#post55471230
:lol: there is a 8806 thread already hehe

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post #62 of 3890 Old 01-10-2018, 02:56 PM
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I've got the 8802A which is adequate.
I think we're reaching the point of diminishing rewards with preamps.

I think HT sound would improve more by putting the money into better speakers, instead.
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post #63 of 3890 Old 01-10-2018, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL-F1 View Post
Since the parent company just bought Classe, I wouldn't hold my breath....
hey i wouldn't mind if they made that the flagship processor and built in kind of things people expect ie a proper calibrated mic to eq. that said if selling a flagship unit i would have thought that a pretty basic requirement to be able to accept one if people have the need. its well done with the 8802a now where if want can use the audyssey pro system. they have removed that option with the new series and it is a pity

something anthem seems to manage easily, marantz did too..
https://www.anthemav.com/anthem-room-correction.php

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post #64 of 3890 Old 01-10-2018, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
yeah boe, i see no reason to change from the 8802, infact would see as a downgrade as loose the use of a calibrated mic and better eq system and capability of pro. 8805 doesn't bring anything i need. so will keep using the 8802A. was there something specifically chasing in the 8802 ? as the denon avp-a1hd is a fine flagship still. as have said many times sonically i believe its a better machine than the marantz. its just the marantz brings atmos which is what moved to, otherwise would still be using the avp ! one of our other aussie forum members got the marantz and not that happy to be honest. and wants to go back to the avp. the guy i sold the avp to is happy as larry



so yeah if dont see any burning reasons to move to 8805 ... then dont



if just wanting atmos and happy with 4 over head channels (i am) then get the 8802, probably find one cheap on run out ? enough to tide over while things sort themselves out....heck maybe i'll end up keeping the marantz for 8 years like did the avp


Not that I need the extra overhead speakers in my room which will serve no purpose to me ( 4 is perfect for me ) but I found the suggested price of the new Marantz 8805 $7500AU AL.
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post #65 of 3890 Old 01-10-2018, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post
Not that I need the extra overhead speakers in my room which will serve no purpose to me ( 4 is perfect for me ) but I found the suggested price of the new Marantz 8805 $7500AU AL.


good god ! are they mad ???

I really dont see the need for this thing in that case ! for what a backward step in EQ ? doesnt make any sense at all. yeah i really dont need the extra 2 overheads either. just looked at myself speaker setup and think it would ludicrous to be trying to squeeze another two in the middle there. maybe something for HUGE rooms multiple rows where have a large spread of front and back heights eg literally in front and back of room where middle heights would maybe make sense.

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post #66 of 3890 Old 01-10-2018, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post




good god ! are they mad ???




They’re hoping it will be cheaper. I guess will see. Doesn’t matter anyway it brings nothing to the table for me.
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post #67 of 3890 Old 01-10-2018, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post
They’re hoping it will be cheaper. I guess will see. Doesn’t matter anyway it brings nothing to the table for me.
I suspect its more a trojan horse for hdmi 2.1

however i have no need for that with any of my displays, and i cant for the minute think of what i might ever need that for in the future.

ps I have to say I had to laugh at the hdmi cable they have running from the front of the unit to the back ?

no doubt this connects the front hdmi port to the video board ?

first time i have ever seen that done on an av processor !

maybe the av8802A does it too, but a first to see !

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post #68 of 3890 Old 01-11-2018, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

Owning the excellent 8802A, I initially had the same interrogations as what can be seen above.

Now beyond a probable HDMI 2.1 compatibility somewhere in the future (what for?), in my opinions the 8805 brings on the table 2 major evolutions for somebody having the utility of these, aka :

1- a full at the same time 13.2 channels processing capability, where the 8802/8802A "only" had a 11.2 capacity,
2- the 8805 has the capacity to use the "new" Audyssey app

bullxxit, would say some people here... but...

... I personally own a 9.2.6 physical installation and have made several comparisons between 7.x.4, 9.x.4 and 9.x.6 configurations using the exceptional Trinnov Altitude 32 (see links above) and in all cases, the 9.x.x configuration (aka LCR+Wides) always gave an added impression of immersion, singularly in a projection context with a 2.35 format screen,

so the processing capacity of 13.2 channels including Wides, of this 8805 generation of processors becomes a "must have" for all people using 9.x.x configurations, even though I admit, these types of installations aren't common.

Now concerning the Audyssey app, as a huge fan and early user of Audyssey Pro, some time ago I had the opportunity to test the Marantz 7703 with the Audyssey app in our own installation (processed in 7.2.4) and my opinion is that this little app is simply an APP in reality...

How come? Well beyond the inconvenience of just having to use the "simple" Audyssey mic and not the calibrated one used in the Audyssey Pro kit, this Audyssey app gives the possibility to choose the upper limit of the MultEQ XT32 correction and this makes all the difference...

... as one has the possibility to use MultEQ XT32 only bellow or slightly above the Schroeder frequency of the room, meaning use XT32 only in the resonant context and not in the reflected one.

An exceptional capacity for all persons interested in acoustic fine tweakings.

So am I going to switch our 8802A for a 8805? Probably...

Hugo
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post #69 of 3890 Old 01-11-2018, 05:59 AM
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To all the 8802A owners saying they won't upgrade to the 8805 - aren't you at least a little bit curious about what kind of audio improvements Marantz may have made in the 8805? I (still!) own the 8801, and from what I have read the 8802 was a substantial improvement over the 8801. Is it unreasonable to suggest the 8805 may be a big jump as well?
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post #70 of 3890 Old 01-11-2018, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
Hi,

Owning the excellent 8802A, I initially had the same interrogations as what can be seen above.

Now beyond a probable HDMI 2.1 compatibility somewhere in the future (what for?), in my opinions the 8805 brings on the table 2 major evolutions for somebody having the utility of these, aka :

1- a full at the same time 13.2 channels processing capability, where the 8802/8802A "only" had a 11.2 capacity,
2- the 8805 has the capacity to use the "new" Audyssey app

bullxxit, would say some people here... but...

... I personally own a 9.2.6 physical installation and have made several comparisons between 7.x.4, 9.x.4 and 9.x.6 configurations using the exceptional Trinnov Altitude 32 (see links above) and in all cases, the 9.x.x configuration (aka LCR+Wides) always gave an added impression of immersion, singularly in a projection context with a 2.35 format screen,

so the processing capacity of 13.2 channels including Wides, of this 8805 generation of processors becomes a "must have" for all people using 9.x.x configurations, even though I admit, these types of installations aren't common.

Now concerning the Audyssey app, as a huge fan and early user of Audyssey Pro, some time ago I had the opportunity to test the Marantz 7703 with the Audyssey app in our own installation (processed in 7.2.4) and my opinion is that this little app is simply an APP in reality...

How come? Well beyond the inconvenience of just having to use the "simple" Audyssey mic and not the calibrated one used in the Audyssey Pro kit, this Audyssey app gives the possibility to choose the upper limit of the MultEQ XT32 correction and this makes all the difference...

... as one has the possibility to use MultEQ XT32 only bellow or slightly above the Schroeder frequency of the room, meaning use XT32 only in the resonant context and not in the reflected one.

An exceptional capacity for all persons interested in acoustic fine tweakings.

So am I going to switch our 8802A for a 8805? Probably...

Hugo
Agreed the app and possibly going for wides one day do have my interest as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post
To all the 8802A owners saying they won't upgrade to the 8805 - aren't you at least a little bit curious about what kind of audio improvements Marantz may have made in the 8805? I (still!) own the 8801, and from what I have read the 8802 was a substantial improvement over the 8801. Is it unreasonable to suggest the 8805 may be a big jump as well?
Ahh! I'm waiting for the same details as far as the audio tweaking the Marantz team have come up with. I was more than satisfied with the 2/ch performance of the 8802A and if the 8805 is able to squeeze out more then its a win win, it's a good starting point they kept that incredible AKM dac but alas what eles have they done!
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post #71 of 3890 Old 01-11-2018, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post
To all the 8802A owners saying they won't upgrade to the 8805 - aren't you at least a little bit curious about what kind of audio improvements Marantz may have made in the 8805? I (still!) own the 8801, and from what I have read the 8802 was a substantial improvement over the 8801. Is it unreasonable to suggest the 8805 may be a big jump as well?
Don't believe everything you read about the AV8801 vs. the AV8802. The AV8801 is a fine unit, that aside...

Looking at some changes, or a lack of changes, between the AV8802a and AV8805, and the effects they may have:

Volume Control: The AV8802a was likely the last higher level Marantz unit that still had the Renesas eight-channel selector/volume control. No datasheet is/was available for this unit. This has been replaced in all the higher level Denon/Marantz units with an eight-channel volume control from New Japan Radio Co. (JRC). This may seem like a nit, but all of the audio channels for the main zone goes through the volume control. The performance of this control, and the opamps that process the output of the DAC chip, are very key to setting the performance limits of the top Marantz units. This new volume control appears to have good performance so this is likely a measureable improvement.

Opamps: Likely these are JRC units as used in most Marantz gear, and are unchanged.

DAC: Unchanged. AKM makes at least two DAC's with better specifications, but use of these better DAC's as direct substitutions would likely just add cost without improvements in actual performance. The circuitry that is used when the DAC's are rated by AKM would be very expensive to implement in a multi-channel AVR/AVP consumer unit.

HDAM's: The HDAM units are increased by two, but appear to still be the same HDAM's.

12V AC Trigger: Denon/Marantz have significantly upgraded the trigger circuit. A much more rugged MOSFET is now used for the output vs. a bipolar transistor. This doesn't affect sound quality of course, but there have been reports of issues with the older trigger.

eARC: The AV8805 appears to have the new Lattice Semiconductor eARC chip, the SiI9437, as do the other Denon/Marantz units that support eARC. The units are awaiting a firmware upgrade to activate eARC.

Linear Power Supply: The toroidal transformer and capacitors appear to be the same size. There isn't much reason to change the design.

DSP Chips: The unit appears to use two of the more powerful generation five Analog Devices DSP units. These are used for digital audio processing. Some amount of programing is required to use these new chips and they are a positive development for the future. Likely the power of the new chips was required for the added channels. With more processing power available it may be that Audyssey and other software features can be improved in the future, or new features provided.

Small improvements: There are a lot of small changes/additions in capacitors and resistors from the AV7703 pre-pro to the AV7704 that should have a positive effect on distortion, and especially noise performance between the units. No doubt many of the same types of improvements have been made between the AV8802a and the AV8805. These are highly engineered units where tradeoffs between cost and overall performance appear to be carefully considered - engineering. They are not cost-is-no-object units.

Wires: There are a lot of wires (not circuit board traces) that carry signals, and power, in these units. This has not changed. Wires can also be considered antennas; they radiate and receive signals. Conceptually it would be nice if some or all of the wires were replaced by appropriately designed ribbon cables or circuit board traces. This would add cost. No one here seems to be complaining that these units don't cost enough. The vertical circuit boards in these units that carry signals from one horizontal circuit board are an example of using circuit board traces instead of wires. Perhaps the wires are one of those engineering decisions where it wouldn't make much difference in the actual performance of these units.

Please add to this list as I will as/if I think of more items.
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post #72 of 3890 Old 01-11-2018, 10:58 AM
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^^^^ Great info (as usual...) bigguyca

Thanks!!!
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post #73 of 3890 Old 01-11-2018, 11:18 AM
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I've owned the AV7005, AV8801 and currently the AV8802A. I'm looking forward to upgrade, because:
1. I can't use my front heights and Atmos. This unit will allow this
2. Future-proof: it looks to me with the upgrade-options, and the better DACS this unit should be future-proof (at least, for the next few years)
3. Firmware updates. See #2
4. Audio and video quality: I noticed minor improvements between the AV8801 and AV8802A, so I expect the same here. I'm curious about video upscaling.

Can someone explain Audyssey calibration with this unit? There's no setup microphone?
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post #74 of 3890 Old 01-11-2018, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post
I've owned the AV7005, AV8801 and currently the AV8802A. I'm looking forward to upgrade, because:
1. I can't use my front heights and Atmos. This unit will allow this
2. Future-proof: it looks to me with the upgrade-options, and the better DACS this unit should be future-proof (at least, for the next few years)
3. Firmware updates. See #2
4. Audio and video quality: I noticed minor improvements between the AV8801 and AV8802A, so I expect the same here. I'm curious about video upscaling.

Can someone explain Audyssey calibration with this unit? There's no setup microphone?
It comes with the same "tower" calibration microphone that all the other Audyssey-capable devices have. Sadly, that mic has relatively poor design specs, with sensitivity variations of +/- 2dB allowed between batches.
The standalone Audyssey calibration procedure has not changed for quite a few years, but there's a new $20 Audyssey app that works with equipment made in the past couple of years which will let you specify your desired frequency response curve.

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post #75 of 3890 Old 01-11-2018, 05:47 PM
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post #76 of 3890 Old 01-11-2018, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by boe View Post

I was going to post something about the lack of XLR output, since this article from AVS on the home page;
https://www.avsforum.com/yoshinori-ya...8805-ces-2018/
Say's;
"And if you have your own amps, the Marantz AV8805 pre/pro ($4499) also offers 13-channel processing but eschews amplification for balanced outputs."
According to the description of eschews, it mean without;
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eschew


So no XLR output, and the first thing, I was thinking was
$4500 US AVP and no XLR, that cannot be


But your You Tube video show other wise


I just cannot see the replacement from it's ancestor the AV8801 that was a flagship, then got replace over the years with new flavors to accommodate new format, and some new gadgets (newer models) to omit such an important feature for Audiophile as XLR


Please let me know, what to believe.


Ray
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post #77 of 3890 Old 01-11-2018, 10:49 PM
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Pretty easy to see why they do not support Audyssey Pro, they are getting people that want to squeeze more out of Audyssey to buy the app.
Stop those that are buying the pro kit and then making cash by setting up others. Pressure by Audyssey i suspect.
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post #78 of 3890 Old 01-11-2018, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
I was going to post something about the lack of XLR output, since this article from AVS on the home page;
https://www.avsforum.com/yoshinori-ya...8805-ces-2018/
Say's;
"And if you have your own amps, the Marantz AV8805 pre/pro ($4499) also offers 13-channel processing but eschews amplification for balanced outputs."
According to the description of eschews, it mean without;
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eschew


So no XLR output, and the first thing, I was thinking was
$4500 US AVP and no XLR, that cannot be


But your You Tube video show other wise


I just cannot see the replacement from it's ancestor the AV8801 that was a flagship, then got replace over the years with new flavors to accommodate new format, and some new gadgets (newer models) to omit such an important feature for Audiophile as XLR


Please let me know, what to believe.


Ray
Well quite simply that sentence reads correctly, that amplification has been eschewed for balanced outputs. So it’s a processor that doesn’t have amplification, but instead has balanced outputs -just like most processors.

HTH
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post #79 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
I was going to post something about the lack of XLR output, since this article from AVS on the home page;

You can readily see the back of the AVP from the Marantz web page ---> http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pa...oductId=AV8805
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post #80 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 02:54 AM
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Given that these D&M processors are now going to support 9.1.4/7.1.6, do we know if there is any word from Dolby that DSU will be upgraded to support the width channels, or will these still remain silent during upmixing?

I know in the past they've stated they won't support upmixing to width channels on the (somewhat dubious) grounds of maintaining artistic intent - but I'm interested to know if they will change that position if they now have pressure from mainstream manufacturers.

Same goes for DTS:X I guess, will the upmixing be altered to support more than 9.1.2 or 7.1.4?
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post #81 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Given that these D&M processors are now going to support 9.1.4/7.1.6, do we know if there is any word from Dolby that DSU will be upgraded to support the width channels, or will these still remain silent during upmixing?

I know in the past they've stated they won't support upmixing to width channels on the (somewhat dubious) grounds of maintaining artistic intent - but I'm interested to know if they will change that position if they now have pressure from mainstream manufacturers.

Same goes for DTS:X I guess, will the upmixing be altered to support more than 9.1.2 or 7.1.4?
Yes, wides will be supported by these new ones, see below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Speaker designations haven't changed. See below for what can be configured on the X8500H.

DTS:X Is still limited to 11.1 however.
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post #82 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Yes, wides will be supported by these new ones, see below:

DTS:X Is still limited to 11.1 however.
Wow! Thats great, thanks Nalleh.

Edit: Do we know what the two asterisk notes are relating to DSU?

Edit 2: Scratch that, I've found the manual.

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post #83 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 03:37 AM
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Wow! Thats great, thanks Nalleh.

Edit: Do we know what the two asterisk notes are relating to DSU?
It is all in the manual, but in this case nothing important see below.
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post #84 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
DTS:X Is still limited to 11.1 however.
Ive seen this mentioned by a few people, but haven’t been able to find a reference for it. Can you point me in the right direction?

TIA
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post #85 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by UK Dreamer View Post
Ive seen this mentioned by a few people, but haven’t been able to find a reference for it. Can you point me in the right direction?

TIA
Look at the asterix nr2 in the pic above.

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post #86 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Look at the asterix nr2 in the pic above.
OK. Got it thanks (and have downloaded the Denon manual too).

I wonder why the limitation - surely the processing power is there to utilise everything? I guess Dolby Surround (upmixing) it'll have to be then!
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post #87 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by UK Dreamer View Post
OK. Got it thanks (and have downloaded the Denon manual too).

I wonder why the limitation - surely the processing power is there to utilise everything? I guess Dolby Surround (upmixing) it'll have to be then!
DTS limitation, not Denon.

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post #88 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
DTS limitation, not Denon.
This is the information I was trying to track down. I couldn’t find any clarification on DTS’s web-site, there is no mention of such a limitation there.

I just wonder why they would hamstring their own technology like that? It’s giving Dolby the upper hand on a platter.

Not that I mind too much, as long as there is available to us a way of using all channels (in this case Dolby Surround upmixing); it would have been nice though to have access to an alternative, particularly, as some people seem to prefer Neural-X over DSU. (I have yet to experience either, so anything available is a bonus)!
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post #89 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 03:38 PM
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15.2 XLR outputs, but only 13.2 sound?????
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post #90 of 3890 Old 01-12-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
You can readily see the back of the AVP from the Marantz web page ---> http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pa...oductId=AV8805

Thank for the link

Quote:
Originally Posted by UK Dreamer View Post
Well quite simply that sentence reads correctly, that amplification has been eschewed for balanced outputs. So it’s a processor that doesn’t have amplification, but instead has balanced outputs -just like most processors.

HTH

Thanks for this info
The way I read-it was no balance output for the amplification on this AVP


Thank you both for taking the time to reply.


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