E ARC- Wondering why! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 10 Old 12-15-2017, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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E ARC- Wondering why!

Here is my thought and maybe I am crazy.

When EARC gets going why not have the TV with all the HDMI ports for all the video devices and then EARC out to receiver? The receiver would only need a couple HDMI's as you would not need one for every video device.

Hook up Roku, Apple, Amazon Fire, Chromecast, UHD, Blu Ray player etc etc to the TV. This way all Video has a direct connection to the TV. Way less HDCP problems etc. Then just have the EARC out of TV send the audio to the EARC in on the receiver. Seems like a better setup to me then the current way of hooking up 6 video devices to receiver then hoping they all work right going to tv.

I tend to watch a sporting event while playing an SACD etc so that may be an issue getting the UHD player to send audio to tv and earc sending back to receiver while playing a different video source like TV. But I am sure that could be done.

With EARC could we not bypass the receiver for the video almost totally? The reason why we do it the current way is because ARC is 2.1 or 5.1 compressed. Toslink is 5.1 at best if I am correct.

Just have 8 HDMI or one of those connect boxes that go to TV over a single cable. Then EARC to receiver with one cable.

TV's might go up a little in price but receivers should go down if they only need a couple HDMI's.

I understand that this would be considerably in the future as you would need a HDMI 2.1 EARC TV and Receiver for it to work right.

But I would think the theory is good.
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post #2 of 10 Old 12-15-2017, 10:33 AM
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The AVR works better as a hub for switching and receiving the inputs (audio and passing through video). Also, it's easier for cable management since the AVR can easily be put in a cabinet or rack, and then have 1 cable going to the TV. There's no hoping, it just works.
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post #3 of 10 Old 12-15-2017, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
The AVR works better as a hub for switching and receiving the inputs (audio and passing through video). Also, it's easier for cable management since the AVR can easily be put in a cabinet or rack, and then have 1 cable going to the TV. There's no hoping, it just works.
I do agree totally with the cable management part. But why not one of those connect boxes like some of the TV's use? This way you could have all the components in your rack hooked up with short HDMI cables to the connect box. Then one high bandwidth cable that goes from connect box to TV. IT would have all video and audio information on it. At the end of that cable or a separate earc hdmi from connect box that goes to the EARC input of the receiver for all sound to receiver? You would then be bypassing the receiver for video duties.

It would also be easier to set up different video settings per TV input as that would be based on various inputs of the connect box.

One issue many people have is HDCP handshake issues when running stuff into the receiver first. This should eliminate that.

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post #4 of 10 Old 12-15-2017, 11:04 AM
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My OLED has 4 HDMI inputs, my AVR has 8 HDMI Inputs, I have 7 HDMI devices so it would still be a no brainer to connect everything thru the AVR. My AVR handles HDR and Dolby Vision so I'm fine just the way things are for now.
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post #5 of 10 Old 12-15-2017, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
My OLED has 4 HDMI inputs, my AVR has 8 HDMI Inputs, I have 7 HDMI devices so it would still be a no brainer to connect everything thru the AVR. My AVR handles HDR and Dolby Vision so I'm fine just the way things are for now.
I agree that currently the AVR is the way to go. But just think with EARC you could make it so the TV has a connect/input box that connects directly to your 7 HDMI devices and the TV. You would connect the 7 devices to the connect/input box. One cable to tv. Then off the connect box there would be an EARC HDMI audio connector that would go to the receiver.

You would have no more HDCP problems as the video connection is to the TV and not the receiver. Maybe a lot of the people on AVS do not have issues because we know how and what to troubleshoot but most people don't. I would bet there are a large group of people that want to have a better HT system but cannot handle the complexity. That is why they get a HTIB or sound bar. A ton of issues that people have on threads like streaming, blu ray, UHD devices are video not going thru the receiver correctly. This type of setup should eliminate that.

If audio/video can go from your devices to this connect/input device straight to tv and just the audio go to receiver in the exact same quality that it left the device this would work great. 95% of the people want the video to go thru the receiver unchanged so why have the receiver in the video loop in the first place. EARC will allow that.
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post #6 of 10 Old 12-15-2017, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangflyer View Post
I agree that currently the AVR is the way to go. But just think with EARC you could make it so the TV has a connect/input box that connects directly to your 7 HDMI devices and the TV. You would connect the 7 devices to the connect/input box. One cable to tv. Then off the connect box there would be an EARC HDMI audio connector that would go to the receiver.

You would have no more HDCP problems as the video connection is to the TV and not the receiver. Maybe a lot of the people on AVS do not have issues because we know how and what to troubleshoot but most people don't. I would bet there are a large group of people that want to have a better HT system but cannot handle the complexity. That is why they get a HTIB or sound bar. A ton of issues that people have on threads like streaming, blu ray, UHD devices are video not going thru the receiver correctly. This type of setup should eliminate that.

If audio/video can go from your devices to this connect/input device straight to tv and just the audio go to receiver in the exact same quality that it left the device this would work great. 95% of the people want the video to go thru the receiver unchanged so why have the receiver in the video loop in the first place. EARC will allow that.
eARC will become mandatory for those who want easy access to high quality audio from sources that are streamed directly to their TV. (Where the TV has eARC of course.) As has been done by Marantz/Denon, eARC will likely be implemented with a separate chip that will also improve basic ARC functionality. Currently ARC is normally handled by a general purpose chip with a variety of reported problems over the years.

eARC will certainly allow the sort of connectivity via added HDMI inputs on the TV that you propose, or via an AVR/AVP, and then to the TV. It will be nice to have both choices; one choice doesn't preclude the other.
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post #7 of 10 Old 03-18-2019, 09:31 AM
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I was hoping this would be the case with ARC where everything went to the TV first. Unfortunately they made two mistakes. The first was using CEC for discovery. This wouldn’t be an issue if they enforced an interoperability standard but they didn’t and CEC became a crap shoot. The second big mistake was the pidly 1Mbps of bandwith they gave it which restricted it to DD 5.1 max. They gave all that juicy bandwith to the ethernet channel which turned out to be useless. Fortunately with eARC they corrected both of these mistakes.

The two issues, complaints really, with eARC are the cable management and loss of the OSD. First one has already been solved with the connect box. Then you just need one cable to the TV or projector. OSD is an easy thing to get back with a little extra logic on the TV side. You have a video channel going from the AVR to the TV already. Just send the overlay to the TV with the blacker than black video levels being transparent. The TV would just have to capture this video and present it as if it was it’s own OSD.
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post #8 of 10 Old 03-18-2019, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangflyer View Post
Here is my thought and maybe I am crazy.

When EARC gets going why not have the TV with all the HDMI ports for all the video devices and then EARC out to receiver? The receiver would only need a couple HDMI's as you would not need one for every video device.

Hook up Roku, Apple, Amazon Fire, Chromecast, UHD, Blu Ray player etc etc to the TV. This way all Video has a direct connection to the TV. Way less HDCP problems etc. Then just have the EARC out of TV send the audio to the EARC in on the receiver. Seems like a better setup to me then the current way of hooking up 6 video devices to receiver then hoping they all work right going to tv.

I tend to watch a sporting event while playing an SACD etc so that may be an issue getting the UHD player to send audio to tv and earc sending back to receiver while playing a different video source like TV. But I am sure that could be done.

With EARC could we not bypass the receiver for the video almost totally? The reason why we do it the current way is because ARC is 2.1 or 5.1 compressed. Toslink is 5.1 at best if I am correct.

Just have 8 HDMI or one of those connect boxes that go to TV over a single cable. Then EARC to receiver with one cable.

TV's might go up a little in price but receivers should go down if they only need a couple HDMI's.

I understand that this would be considerably in the future as you would need a HDMI 2.1 EARC TV and Receiver for it to work right.

But I would think the theory is good.
Go ahead and connect the way you describe. There should be no signal degradation that way, but as long as the TV passes the correct audio format out to the receiver.
With today’s ultra thin TV’s, and they are getting thinner, wall mounting is more correct, for me. I simply can’t be connecting multiple devices to the TV. What would I do with six, or eight cables? I have a six foot tall entertainment center placed on the left side wall with the gear placed there, and one HDMI through the wall to the TV.

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post #9 of 10 Old 03-18-2019, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by avernar View Post
I was hoping this would be the case with ARC where everything went to the TV first. Unfortunately they made two mistakes. The first was using CEC for discovery. This wouldn’t be an issue if they enforced an interoperability standard but they didn’t and CEC became a crap shoot. The second big mistake was the pidly 1Mbps of bandwith they gave it which restricted it to DD 5.1 max. They gave all that juicy bandwith to the ethernet channel which turned out to be useless. Fortunately with eARC they corrected both of these mistakes.

The two issues, complaints really, with eARC are the cable management and loss of the OSD. First one has already been solved with the connect box. Then you just need one cable to the TV or projector. OSD is an easy thing to get back with a little extra logic on the TV side. You have a video channel going from the AVR to the TV already. Just send the overlay to the TV with the blacker than black video levels being transparent. The TV would just have to capture this video and present it as if it was it’s own OSD.
Yes I also loose the OSD of the receiver when going upstream from TV to receiver, but I do not understand your above fix to this. I just assumed I loose it.
On the subject of apps. It’s confusing to have apps all over the place! Personally I don’t need or want apps everywhere!
Now in the case of my bedroom TV, not connected to an audio system. Just using the TV by itself, I appreciate the apps there. I have a Blu-Ray connected (also has a handful of apps) and I never use it anymore. Much less confusing with apps all in one place.

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post #10 of 10 Old 03-19-2019, 06:27 AM
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Yes I also loose the OSD of the receiver when going upstream from TV to receiver, but I do not understand your above fix to this. I just assumed I loose it.
Currently you will loose it. What I was saying it wouldn't be difficult for the AVR and TV manufacturers to add it back it. It would most likely require an addition to the HDMI standard so that everything works with each other.
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