The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread - Page 103 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3061 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 03:50 AM
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Download the “Spotify App” onto your Android or iOS

Hi, i am going in circles…….
I have the Spotify app on my Windows 10 Laptop and its playing fine, but the manual says Android or iOS.
But how can i get the 8500 play the songs with win 10 and "free" Spotify ?

Thanks….
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post #3062 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
Might be getting off topic for this thread but is 9.1.6 going to work with the 8500 and 2 cheap Pro Logic processors given DTS:X 11 channel limit? The maximum I would be able to get is 9.1.2 on the 8500 which wouldn't work for the pro logic extraction. Sounds like I would need 2 receivers and 2 Pro Logic processors, or a second receiver that works with 6 heights. Don't want to use the 8500 for heights only as that just seems like a waste.
If you use extraction (8500 using 9.1.4 + two Pro Logic II AVRs with Audyssey to create "Top Middle", you would only need two extra much cheaper receivers to reach 9.x.6, but the DTS limit would mean front wides only work for Atmos, at least for the time being.

You'd need something like a used Marantz 7010 (or Denon equivalent (4200?) used in parallel to get around it. At that point, however, you really don't need an expensive 8500. You could use a Denon or Marantz 11 channel receiver in parallel instead (7.1.4) + 9.1.2 + 2 Pro Logic AVRs (Top Middle). This would be $1500-2000 cheaper and get around the DTS limit as well.

It's basically what I'd use here if I get my 7010 fixed (7010 with 9.1.2 with .2 unused) + 7012 with 7.1.4 and two powered Onkyo ES Pro600 units. I'd still need my Yamaha to power rear height on the 7012 (not needed with the 8012) and front height only because I have the dialog height setup). The Onkyos are cheap and small, but don't have Audyssey. A Minidsp could be used with non-powered processors, but a 2-channel amp would be needed to power the channels instead.

Yes, you need some shelf space for this stuff. But even that Emotiva unit if becomes available will probably need 15 amp channels (I think it's only a processor like the Trinnov, but I'm not 100% sure. It would have the DTS limit too regardless.

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post #3063 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Download the “Spotify App” onto your Android or iOS

Hi, i am going in circles…….
I have the Spotify app on my Windows 10 Laptop and its playing fine, but the manual says Android or iOS.
But how can i get the 8500 play the songs with win 10 and "free" Spotify ?

Thanks….
Have you tried a direct HDMI connection from your laptop to the 8500?

If you want to send it over the network, my understanding is that BubbleUPnP can be used to send Spotify audio through a DLNA server (e.g. Windows Media Player or Kodi running on your laptop) to a DLNA renderer (e.g. your 8500 for stereo or an attached Blu-ray player for multichannel audio). I've never used either BubbleUPnP or Spotify, so I'll have to leave it to you to explore the details. Or perhaps someone else can provide them.
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post #3064 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
I guess it would in the sense the only D&M receiver that supports front wides currently is the 8500. There's supposedly an upcoming Emotiva unit that will be capable of 9.1.6 if/when it comes out for around $6K retail. You can, however pick up older AVR models used on eBay that do front wides for under a grand. In fact, you can get to "true" 9.1.4 with one of those and one current 11-channel model or even 9.1.6 if you don't mind "overlap" one one set of channels (more or less the same as active matrix in that a set of channels contains info from the other channels. This lessens separation, but may still be better than 4 overheads depending on your point of view.



If your goal is 9.1.6, you'd need 3 receivers total including the 8500 (two would be used to derive the top middle location while using front wide on the 8500 so the "snap to" function of Atmos works correctly. These two models would need Audyssey in them to do Audyssey for all channels).

If you're not worried about room correction (or want to use a min-dsp or something instead), you can get considerably cheaper "Pro Logic" processors on somewhere like eBay instead of full Audyssey capable AVRs. I used dual Onkyo Pro-ES600 units here for "Top Middle" and an active mixer for the front wides (plus my old Yamaha AVR as a 6-channel amplifier in 7-ch input mode with room for the VOG channel if I want to add the speaker as well). I use one 7012 + 2 Onkyo ES-600 + an Active Mixer for Front Wides + another Active Mixer to create a Dialog Lift effect for the front heights (which means i use the Yamaha amp for front height from the mixer as well as rear height since the 7012 doesn't power the extra two channels and the front wides from the other mixer. The Onkyo units have 50W per channel for their center outputs so I don't need extra power there. That got me 9.1.6 with extracted top middle, active mixer/matrix front wides and dialog lift for around $1500 (not including reusing my old Yamaha receiver). Is it as good as TRUE 9.1.6? Probably not quite as good, especially for the front wides, but it's close enough for my room considering how much less it cost me. I've also got an older 7010 AVR that's got an issue. If I get it fixed, I can use it for "true" front wides in the same system giving me nearly the equivalent of the upcoming Emotiva unit that retails for 6 grand (if/when it ever gets released). Picture of my system are in my signature for "Theater" (it's a link).
Why not use something like a Denon 6200W (supports front wides) and the 8500H (for the 6 Atmos overheads) for 9.x.6 using only 2 processors? That's what I'm using and it seems to work just fine. Also the RMC-1 is only $4,999.00! from Emotiva and I am really hoping they get it sorted out within a year or so.

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post #3065 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
It's much harder to create more than 7.1.4 with DTS: X since anything outside of the normal 7.1 speaker layout with 4 heights is matrix derived, even the Front Wides. Yup, DTS: X uses Neural: X upmixing to create that position from the side surrounds and front speakers. According to DTS's own immersive mixing software, you can still only output 11.1 DTS: X soundtracks.
Not sure what you're referring to in regards to my question?

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post #3066 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
Why not use something like a Denon 6200W (supports front wides) and the 8500H (for the 6 Atmos overheads) for 9.x.6 using only 2 processors? That's what I'm using and it seems to work just fine. Also the RMC-1 is only $4,999.00! from Emotiva and I am really hoping they get it sorted out within a year or so.

Would going down that route work for discrete channels since the 6200 is only 9 channels? I would have thought connecting it only as 9.1 would mean all the height content gets played on the main receivers and the 8500 would be doubling that content through the heights. Same for Auro 13.1 and Auromatic I would have thought.
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post #3067 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
Would going down that route work for discrete channels since the 6200 is only 9 channels? I would have thought connecting it only as 9.1 would mean all the height content gets played on the main receivers and the 8500 would be doubling that content through the heights. Same for Auro 13.1 and Auromatic I would have thought.
1) Configure the first receiver for 9.1.2 (7.1.2+wides) and then disconnect the speaker wires to the height channels.
2) Configure the second receiver (X8500) for 7.1.6 and then disconnect all ground-level speakers.

No duplication of sounds. Receiver 1 takes care of the ground level speakers and Receiver 2 takes care of the heights.
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post #3068 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
Would going down that route work for discrete channels since the 6200 is only 9 channels?
It has 11.2 channels of processing, so you would configure it as 9.x.2. The 8500 would play all heights and that's it. But some would say that's a waste of money. But it's the ONLY AVR that can play 6 height channels so it's the only (non-sky high) solution with just two receivers to get 9.x.6.

Quote:
I would have thought connecting it only as 9.1 would mean all the height content gets played on the main receivers and the 8500 would be doubling that content through the heights. Same for Auro 13.1 and Auromatic I would have thought.
That's why you configure the receiver to play 9.1.2, not just 9.1 (again it has 11 channels of processing and since you're not going to actually use the heights from the this receiver, you don't need to worry about an amplifier for them).

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Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
Why not use something like a Denon 6200W (supports front wides) and the 8500H (for the 6 Atmos overheads) for 9.x.6 using only 2 processors? That's what I'm using and it seems to work just fine. Also the RMC-1 is only $4,999.00! from Emotiva and I am really hoping they get it sorted out within a year or so.
I mentioned that type of combination earlier. There is one big down side and that is the DTS 11-channel limit. By using two receivers, you do get more than 11-channels (13 to be specific), but that still only nets you 9.x.4. Because the 8500H cannot be set up to play 5.x.6, using 7.x.6 will leave out the top middle speaker in favor of the rear surround speakers (which aren't even being used). AFAIK, there is no "preference" option to tell it which speakers to leave out in DTS mode when more than 11 are available (I could be wrong; I only looked at the manual and don't actually own one). It will, of course work in Atmos mode for 9.1.6 and you have the nice Auro 13.1 setup as well (which can use the rear surrounds even with the upmixer).

But for me, the loss of top middle in DTS X or Neural X modes would leave a large "hole" over the middle of my room since I need 6 overheads just to cover the full length of the 24' long room edge-to-edge so I can have three rows with coverage "behind" all three. By using Pro Logic extraction, I avoid the DTS limit and it works in ALL modes (including Auro-3D oddly enough as using rear height for Auro-3D plus the top middle extraction actually produces a full room length effect for it. Sadly, I would need to copy the side surrounds to the back (another switchbox needed) to fully pull the effect back as well as possible, but it works pretty well even with just rear heights for the 3rd row. I can also switch to "pure" Auro-3D with the switchbox I do have connected which will move the rear height to the side height position or play both at once (latter works well for three rows too, but sounds "different" from using the extracted top middle). Certainly DTS X sounds amazing in 9.1.6 and I'm only using matrixed front wides, but for example, the scene in Harry Potter Prisoner of Azkaban where the Whomping Willow tree swings Emma/Harry towards the screen had the sound pass right through me at ear level and behind me (Someone watching it with me freaked out! That was funny). This was possible because the front wides are in-between the fronts and sides and allow the sound to image fully in-between and then behind to the sides just behind me and then to the rears even further back). When the clock tower bonged, it bonged right over and just behind my head in the MLP (overhead and just in front of my head in the 2nd row and about over the 2nd row center from the 3rd row). Fantastic. Red Tails had planes flying above my screen left to right and right over my head front to back. It works great (and I use side heights, not ceiling and it works regardless in all three formats in a narrow room).

If you want 9.x.6 that works fully with DTS X, you need to use extraction for the top middle location. That also means, as I said before, you don't need the 8500 at that point. It's still nice for Auro-3D 13.1, but how many titles are available with 13.1? Two, I believe and frankly their web site looks almost dead to me with the only Blu-Rays announced in the past 4 months being a foreign language German movie and a music album. Half the music albums on that site are dead links now (places out of business) and mostly classical music anyway. I'd personally love to see 3 formats to pick from, but it doesn't appear likely at this point. Even DTS has had to partner up with IMAX to increase its presence (remains to be seen whether anyone will care). Personally, I think Auro-3D could potentially carve a niche with "5.1" Blu-Ray releases (still loads of them) by offering their services for very low cost to piggy-back the Auro-3D 10.1 track (which AFAIK just sits in the extra bits in a 24-bit signal and therefore really doesn't take up a lot more space other than not compressing as much).

I'd definitely prefer Auro 11.1 instead of just 5.1. The problem, of course is getting the studios to do it and for Auro-3D to make money, they can't work for free, although if they want to save the company in the long run, they NEED more market share (even some of their theaters are converting over to DTS X in some places from what I read and frankly there's 3 Auro-Max theaters within 50 miles of me (one within about 2 miles) and NO Atmos theaters anywhere NEAR here, but they're only putting out a few titles a year in Auro-Max at this point from what I'm seeing on their web site so Auro-Max without a movie playing in it is just using the upmixer or bed speakers and honestly, the Auro upmixer sucks compared to Neural X for movies (better for music, I think). Neural X is unbelievable how good it can make a 5.1 track sound (The Meg 3D was only in 5.1 but I never would have guessed it in Neural X. It sounded not only immersive, but better than most Atmos mixes I've heard so far for height use. Only Harry Potter (DTS X) and Red Tails (Auro-3D) have impressed me more so far (admittedly I've only listened to small percentage of the titles out there so far, but have over 70 available to me at this point between Blu-Ray purchases in all three formats and iTunes Atmos streaming with 10 in Auro-3D, 22 in DTS X and the rest in Dolby Atmos).
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post #3069 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 03:15 PM
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Just want to say thanks to all that provided suggestions, info, feedback etc to the question I posted a few days ago. Since then I have had an electrician come out and check everything over. We tested multiple scenarios and it turned out to be only the AVR that caused the trip with nothing else on the line. No arc fault or ground fault breakers. He believes the breaker was just worn and it was replaced. Even though it has only been a day it hasn’t tripped yet though the AVR is still exhibiting some of the same behavior I would see just before a trip though it hasn’t tripped which is good.

Overall I’m still somewhat wary and going to move forward with a 8500 purchase. At this point I think a lot of it is price of mind as well as maybe an excuse to buy new gear lol

Anyways thx again the help I appreciate it

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post #3070 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post

I mentioned that type of combination earlier. There is one big down side and that is the DTS 11-channel limit. By using two receivers, you do get more than 11-channels (13 to be specific), but that still only nets you 9.x.4. Because the 8500H cannot be set up to play 5.x.6, using 7.x.6 will leave out the top middle speaker in favor of the rear surround speakers (which aren't even being used). AFAIK, there is no "preference" option to tell it which speakers to leave out in DTS mode when more than 11 are available (I could be wrong; I only looked at the manual and don't actually own one). It will, of course work in Atmos mode for 9.1.6 and you have the nice Auro 13.1 setup as well (which can use the rear surrounds even with the upmixer).
Wrong. If you disable your rear surrounds, the 8500 will play 5.1.6 in DTS:X and Neural:X. So with two AVR’s you can have true 9.1.6, in both Atmos and DTS:X

Tried and tested

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post #3071 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Wrong. If you disable your rear surrounds, the 8500 will play 5.1.6 in DTS:X and Neural:X. So with two AVR’s you can have true 9.1.6, in both Atmos and DTS:X

Tried and tested


How do you connect the two AVR's? I have a 5200 that is not being used.

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post #3072 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 06:24 PM
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How do you connect the two AVR's? I have a 5200 that is not being used.
HDMI Zon2 out from one to any HDMI in on the other

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post #3073 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Wrong. If you disable your rear surrounds, the 8500 will play 5.1.6 in DTS:X and Neural:X. So with two AVR’s you can have true 9.1.6, in both Atmos and DTS:X

Tried and tested
Is that something new with the last firmware update? I could have sworn I read no AVR worked in 5.1.6 mode (a common complaint with 11-channel AVRs since they all SHOULD be capable of doing it since it's supported by Dolby. My 7012 sure as hell won't allow it, for example).

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post #3074 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Is that something new with the last firmware update? I could have sworn I read no AVR worked in 5.1.6 mode (a common complaint with 11-channel AVRs since they all SHOULD be capable of doing it since it's supported by Dolby. My 7012 sure as hell won't allow it, for example).
I believe it has always been possible with the 8500. @batpig confirmed it near the beginning of this thread. The problem with all the 11 channel receivers is that as far as I'm aware none of them work with 6 heights so 5.1.6 won't work for either Atmos or DTS:X on anything else reasonably priced, except probably the Marantz 8805. I also remember reading that no other receivers can play 2 adjacent sets of heights (so no TM+TR or TF+TM combos) but not sure how true that still is.


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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
HDMI Zon2 out from one to any HDMI in on the other
So the connection setup for 2 receivers is Zone 2 out from receiver 1 to HDMI in on receiver 2, pre outs on receiver 1 to external inputs on receiver 2, then connect the heights to receiver 2?

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post #3075 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 09:32 PM
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HDMI Zon2 out from one to any HDMI in on the other
Ok thanks.

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post #3076 of 4784 Old 11-29-2018, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
I believe it has always been possible with the 8500. @batpig confirmed it near the beginning of this thread. The problem with all the 11 channel receivers is that as far as I'm aware none of them work with 6 heights so 5.1.6 won't work for either Atmos or DTS:X on anything else reasonably priced, except probably the Marantz 8805. I also remember reading that no other receivers can play 2 adjacent sets of heights (so no TM+TR or TF+TM combos) but not sure how true that still is.
That's interesting as I was only aware the 8500 could do a "5.x.6" with the Auro-3D locations (i.e. CH + TS). As for adjacent heights, even my older Marantz 7010 could play adjacent heights (I tested with both FH + TM and TF + M before I added my rear height speakers to the back of the room). I don't think other "brands" can play adjacent heights other than D&M, however. I'm pretty sure Yamaha, for example won't do it. Now if only they had a 15-channel AVR that could combine to do 9.1.6 + CH + TS + Rear Wides all at the same time.

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post #3077 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Is that something new with the last firmware update? I could have sworn I read no AVR worked in 5.1.6 mode (a common complaint with 11-channel AVRs since they all SHOULD be capable of doing it since it's supported by Dolby. My 7012 sure as hell won't allow it, for example).
It is in the second post The 8500 has been able to do any DTS:X setup from it’s release, as long as it is within 11.1. If you use other than the standard 7.1.4 setup, it uses Neural:X to feed those speakers.

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post #3078 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
pre outs on receiver 1 to external inputs on receiver 2, then connect the heights to receiver 2?
Huh?

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post #3079 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Huh?

For connecting 2 receivers together to get more than 11 channels do I need to use the pre outs at all? Or is using zone 2 out sufficient and just connect the extra height speakers to the second receiver?
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post #3080 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Huh?

For connecting 2 receivers together to get more than 11 channels do I need to use the pre outs at all? Or is using zone 2 out sufficient and just connect the extra height speakers to the second receiver?
For the setup he has in mind the zone 2 HDMI carries all the signals to the 2nd receiver. You won't need the preouts.

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post #3081 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 06:48 AM
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^^Magnum is correct.
And all info about using more than one AVR is in the multi-AVR thread

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post #3082 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
It has 11.2 channels of processing, so you would configure it as 9.x.2. The 8500 would play all heights and that's it. But some would say that's a waste of money. But it's the ONLY AVR that can play 6 height channels so it's the only (non-sky high) solution with just two receivers to get 9.x.6.
Using the somewhat expensive 8500H for just the overheads did bother me a bit at first - until I started watching movies and then it no longer mattered! I also use it for my second row side surrounds so that also helps justify the cost a bit...
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post #3083 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
It is in the second post The 8500 has been able to do any DTS:X setup from it’s release, as long as it is within 11.1. If you use other than the standard 7.1.4 setup, it uses Neural:X to feed those speakers.
I had a look at the second post and it leaves out what are allowed DTS:X locations. I think I recall that TS is not an allowed DTS:X location. I've hooked up 15 speakers to include FW, CH, TS, and SR. My 8500 sorts this out and selects the "correct" speakers to activate, depending on input codec. So, suppose I disconnect one SR speaker and have a DTS:X source with the current 11 ch limitation. If I disconnected my FW pair, would Neural:X feed CH and a single SR?

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post #3084 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
I had a look at the second post and it leaves out what are allowed DTS:X locations. I think I recall that TS is not an allowed DTS:X location. I've hooked up 15 speakers to include FW, CH, TS, and SR. My 8500 sorts this out and selects the "correct" speakers to activate, depending on input codec. So, suppose I disconnect one SR speaker and have a DTS:X source with the current 11 ch limitation. If I disconnected my FW pair, would Neural:X feed CH and a single SR?
I have the 7200wa and when I send a full 4K 60hz4.4.4 signal . The chip can’t handle it. Does the 8500 have this issue . The 7200 and the marantz 8802 claim that they can do full bandwidth , but this turns out false
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Originally Posted by nesto719 View Post
I have the 7200wa and when I send a full 4K 60hz4.4.4 signal . The chip can’t handle it. Does the 8500 have this issue . The 7200 and the marantz 8802 claim that they can do full bandwidth , but this turns out false
The HDMI connector on the front panel on both models only supports YCbCr 4:2:0 format, otherwise, rear inputs on both models should be able to do 4k 60Hz 4.4.4.

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post #3086 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
I had a look at the second post and it leaves out what are allowed DTS:X locations. I think I recall that TS is not an allowed DTS:X location. I've hooked up 15 speakers to include FW, CH, TS, and SR. My 8500 sorts this out and selects the "correct" speakers to activate, depending on input codec. So, suppose I disconnect one SR speaker and have a DTS:X source with the current 11 ch limitation. If I disconnected my FW pair, would Neural:X feed CH and a single SR?
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post #3087 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The HDMI connector on the front panel on both models only supports YCbCr 4:2:0 format, otherwise, rear inputs on both models should be able to do 4k 60Hz 4.4.4.
Yeah they claim it does , but it can’t handle the bandwidth . Lots of issues with half picture half static . And only at times .
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post #3088 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by nesto719 View Post
I have the 7200wa and when I send a full 4K 60hz4.4.4 signal . The chip can’t handle it. Does the 8500 have this issue . The 7200 and the marantz 8802 claim that they can do full bandwidth , but this turns out false
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The HDMI connector on the front panel on both models only supports YCbCr 4:2:0 format, otherwise, rear inputs on both models should be able to do 4k 60Hz 4.4.4.
Only if it is 8-bit. Any more than that would be above 18Gbps.

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post #3089 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 11:21 AM
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Yeah they claim it does , but it can’t handle the bandwidth . Lots of issues with half picture half static . And only at times .
Please provide a full description of the 4K video signal that is causing problems.
Does it include WCG, HDR, Deep Color, Dolby Vision? Other features?

Unfortunately, just saying that a signal is 4K YCbCr 4:4:4 is too vague. There are several 4K features which are not included in that description and which can dramatically increase the bandwidth requirements if they're turned on. For example, enabling either 10- or 12- bit Deep Color will increase the bandwidth usage by 25% and 50% respectively.

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post #3090 of 4784 Old 11-30-2018, 11:36 AM
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Please provide a full description of the 4K video signal that is causing problems.
Does it include WCG, HDR, Deep Color, Dolby Vision? Other features?

Unfortunately, just saying that a signal is 4K YCbCr 4:4:4 is too vague. There are several 4K features which are not included in that description and which can dramatically increase the bandwidth requirements if they're turned on. For example, enabling either 10- or 12- bit Deep Color will increase the bandwidth usage by 25% and 50% respectively.
When using the Apple TV I have the setting 4K sdr 4.4.4 when playing Dolby vision movies everything is fine because that’s in 24 p but once a full bandwidth 60 hz screen comes in the picture starts flickering and I get white snow screens At times . Same thing happens on the marantz 8802. I have zero problems with the oppo 203 but again most content is 24p . A buddy of mine hooked his pattern generator up to the his 8802 and it came back reading only 10gps . Couldn’t pass the full 18gps bandwidth
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