The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread - Page 104 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3091 of 4451 Old 11-30-2018, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
I had a look at the second post and it leaves out what are allowed DTS:X locations. I think I recall that TS is not an allowed DTS:X location. I've hooked up 15 speakers to include FW, CH, TS, and SR. My 8500 sorts this out and selects the "correct" speakers to activate, depending on input codec. So, suppose I disconnect one SR speaker and have a DTS:X source with the current 11 ch limitation. If I disconnected my FW pair, would Neural:X feed CH and a single SR?

On this post @batpig seemed to confirm that DTS was outputting to TS and CH when only 11 speakers including TS and CH were connected. However I'd be curious as to how well those positions work or what info was getting outputted to those channels as it doesn't appear as though DTS on the 8500 is designed to play TS.
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post #3092 of 4451 Old 11-30-2018, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
On this post @batpig seemed to confirm that DTS was outputting to TS and CH when only 11 speakers including TS and CH were connected. However I'd be curious as to how well those positions work or what info was getting outputted to those channels as it doesn't appear as though DTS on the 8500 is designed to play TS.
One awaits the Oracle. I wonder if just having a single RS (to keep the count at 11) is acceptable. Jd's posted table does not show the X8500 sending a DTS:X signal to the TS. If it does, is it a matrix of the usual 4 overheads? I would like that.

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post #3093 of 4451 Old 12-01-2018, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
On this post @batpig seemed to confirm that DTS was outputting to TS and CH when only 11 speakers including TS and CH were connected. However I'd be curious as to how well those positions work or what info was getting outputted to those channels as it doesn't appear as though DTS on the 8500 is designed to play TS.
As noted in the images he posted, that would be for DTS Neural:X which as noted below is possible.

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post #3094 of 4451 Old 12-01-2018, 04:18 AM
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Since DTS X automatically uses Neural X to create FW, it should do the same for TS. It's like having built in Pro Logic processing. Too bad you can't use it for all modes (e.g. Auro and Dolby).

It also appears Virtual X doesn't work with ANY Dolby signals (save you convert to PCM first) and its that Dolby mandate against 3rd party upmixers that is the reason D&M gives. That's a shame as it works unbelievably well (I was thinking of adding it to my 4.0 system). I tested and compared on my 9.1.6 setup. I almost wondered why I bothered with actual overheads it worked so well without (until I tried a Dolby signal).

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post #3095 of 4451 Old 12-01-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammie2980 View Post
Just want to say thanks to all that provided suggestions, info, feedback etc to the question I posted a few days ago. Since then I have had an electrician come out and check everything over. We tested multiple scenarios and it turned out to be only the AVR that caused the trip with nothing else on the line. No arc fault or ground fault breakers. He believes the breaker was just worn and it was replaced. Even though it has only been a day it hasn’t tripped yet though the AVR is still exhibiting some of the same behavior I would see just before a trip though it hasn’t tripped which is good.
I just had to replace a breaker for the old pool heater. Keep tripping, tripping, tripping. Put the new one in at same amperage and no problem.
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post #3096 of 4451 Old 12-01-2018, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
I just had to replace a breaker for the old pool heater. Keep tripping, tripping, tripping. Put the new one in at same amperage and no problem.

The high-level concept is that circuit breakers, like any electromechanical device, fail over time. Circuit breakers are inexpensive and easy to replace. Ground fault breakers, such as would be appropriate for a pool heater, are more complex and more likely to fail, but they will save your life.
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post #3097 of 4451 Old 12-02-2018, 08:19 AM
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wow normaly I wont buy they émotiva rmc-1 for make 9.1.6 but I see explication for how make 9.1.6 whit 8500,I have now one 8012 ,that information is vey important for me .


in canada the rmc-1 cost is over 7000 dollars whit canada money change and us plus taxe ,but now is possible buy 8500 whit good price and save couple thousands dollars whit 8500 .


its possible for me whit 8500 make 6 atmos speakers in ceillings and 9 whit 8012 for make 9.4.6.


thank you for explication for now my house cinema is 7.4.4.

marantz av 8805, 13 chanels, emotiva 2 xpa 5 gen1,1 emotiva xpa3 gen3, 7.4.6,4 speakers monitor 11 ,2 paradigm studio 100 v2,4 ceillings speakers ss82w sweet spot earthquake ,2 earthquake ecs-8.0,1 center Paradigm cc390,4 subs klipsch r-sw112 sw.antimod 8033 perfect bass kit paradigm, Buttkicker amplificateur lfe 1000 watts, , tv oled 65e6p,, room 12x25x7,bluray player oppo bdp 203,4coolers ac infinity s9 fan.

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post #3098 of 4451 Old 12-03-2018, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
As noted in the images he posted, that would be for DTS Neural:X which as noted below is possible.

Sorry, not possible to do TS and CH with NeuralX, just tried it...….
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post #3099 of 4451 Old 12-03-2018, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post
Sorry, not possible to do TS and CH with NeuralX, just tried it...….
Apparently not set up correctly, as batpig's images already confirmed it was possible months ago.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post55596544
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post #3100 of 4451 Old 12-03-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Apparently not set up correctly, as batpig's images already confirmed it was possible months ago.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post55596544
I see the problem, i have FH/TM running, and not FH/RH...…….thanks for the correction
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post #3101 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 09:31 AM
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Replacement Mic

We (my wife is not allowing me to say anything other than we) accidentally threw away the calibration mic while discarding the numerous boxes associated with our dedicated theater build. I wish I could use my UMIK-1 but I guess that is not possible. What are my options for replacement?

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post #3102 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ANSEK View Post
We (my wife is not allowing me to say anything other than we) accidentally threw away the calibration mic while discarding the numerous boxes associated with our dedicated theater build. I wish I could use my UMIK-1 but I guess that is not possible. What are my options for replacement?
Sorry, I can not suppress the
Think we all had something happen like this with the wife…..
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post #3103 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by zimmo View Post
wow normaly I wont buy they émotiva rmc-1 for make 9.1.6 but I see explication for how make 9.1.6 whit 8500,I have now one 8012 ,that information is vey important for me .


in canada the rmc-1 cost is over 7000 dollars whit canada money change and us plus taxe ,but now is possible buy 8500 whit good price and save couple thousands dollars whit 8500 .


its possible for me whit 8500 make 6 atmos speakers in ceillings and 9 whit 8012 for make 9.4.6.


thank you for explication for now my house cinema is 7.4.4.
mine 7.1.6 yes u can all 15.1 for auro 3d
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post #3104 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANSEK View Post
We (my wife is not allowing me to say anything other than we) accidentally threw away the calibration mic while discarding the numerous boxes associated with our dedicated theater build. I wish I could use my UMIK-1 but I guess that is not possible. What are my options for replacement?
Buy a new one for $25: https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...rophone/1.html
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theaterlover


I know for 15.1 to auro 3d,but I want 9 floor speakers and 6 in ceilling top speakers atmos .


I chech all page and I not find how you make set up and collection for 9.2.6.


you see how from manual ,teel me whitch page.


thank you

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post #3106 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmo View Post
theaterlover


I know for 15.1 to auro 3d,but I want 9 floor speakers and 6 in ceilling top speakers atmos .


I chech all page and I not find how you make set up and collection for 9.2.6.


you see how from manual ,teel me whitch page.


thank you


I have a 9.2.6 setup , front wides and Atmos FH/TM/RH ceiling.

For Atmos 9.2.4 or 7.2.6 depending on the Atmos mix.
For Auro 3D 13ch I can use 7.2.6 mode.
I’ve not gone VG+TC


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post #3107 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
I have a 9.2.6 setup , front wides and Atmos FH/TM/RH ceiling.

For Atmos 9.2.4 or 7.2.6 depending on the Atmos mix.
For Auro 3D 13ch I can use 7.2.6 mode.
I’ve not gone VG+TC
How do you do 7.2.6 with Auro3D if you have TM designation? Auro3D will only use the FH+RH, if you don't have CH/TS then Auro will only be 11ch. Do you have separate speakers hooked up for Auro3D?
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post #3108 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I've got a confession....

I've started using Auro3D upmixer for 5.1 content.

But doesn't that just duplicate the side surrounds to the back surrounds? Yes, and I actually like it, I have monopole surrounds in a moderate sized room and I actually like the more diffuse effect from turning Surr+SurrBack into an array. My surrounds and surround backs are both Triads so they are a good tonal match and it creates a nice "wraparound" feel while still sounding fairly discrete when necessary (but less hot-spotty).
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post #3109 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
I've got a confession....

I've started using Auro3D upmixer for 5.1 content.

But doesn't that just duplicate the side surrounds to the back surrounds? Yes, and I actually like it, I have monopole surrounds in a moderate sized room and I actually like the more diffuse effect from turning Surr+SurrBack into an array. My surrounds and surround backs are both Triads so they are a good tonal match and it creates a nice "wraparound" feel while still sounding fairly discrete when necessary (but less hot-spotty).
Heretic! Burn him!!!
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post #3110 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 12:05 PM
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The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
How do you do 7.2.6 with Auro3D if you have TM designation? Auro3D will only use the FH+RH, if you don't have CH/TS then Auro will only be 11ch. Do you have separate speakers hooked up for Auro3D?


My bad, it’s 11ch Auro3D for me, I looked at CH/VG method but concluded due to lack of content in USA gave up ...

The only Auro content I have is their demo disc I got earlier .

I can do either of these
7.2.6


Or 9.2.4


Or 7.2 plus front wides plus FH + TM as 9.2.4, the visual for that is not in the owners manual, but I’ve used it lots.



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post #3111 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANSEK View Post
We (my wife is not allowing me to say anything other than we) accidentally threw away the calibration mic while discarding the numerous boxes associated with our dedicated theater build. I wish I could use my UMIK-1 but I guess that is not possible. What are my options for replacement?
You can also purchase the ACM1HB mic directly from Denon Parts as well as on eBay.

Also, a reminder to everyone that the AVR OEM box should be retained should there be any need to send it in for warranty repair, or at the very least for the HDMI 2.1 upgrade (summer 2019?).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
I've got a confession....

I've started using Auro3D upmixer for 5.1 content.

But doesn't that just duplicate the side surrounds to the back surrounds? Yes, and I actually like it, I have monopole surrounds in a moderate sized room and I actually like the more diffuse effect from turning Surr+SurrBack into an array. My surrounds and surround backs are both Triads so they are a good tonal match and it creates a nice "wraparound" feel while still sounding fairly discrete when necessary (but less hot-spotty).
I use a copy of the side height and rear height together with Auro-3D (don't really care for the upmixer, though for movies). I wish it would duplicate the rear bed with the 7012 too. Auro-3D on native titles even work quite effectively with both rear and side surrounds, IMO. The image simply pulls back in the rows behind the side surrounds. It effectively sounds similar for all seats. Red Tails in Auro-3D still blows away anything I've heard from Atmos or X so far. But then there is no other version to compare it directly.

Click THEATER (Updated: May-22-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 7-5-19)
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post #3113 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 06:22 PM
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How do you get 15.1 Auro 3D? If you have FH/SH/RH connected wouldn't Auro just output to SH over RH?
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I can't select Dolby Atmos as one of my surround modes. I know I read somewhere the height speakers needed some kind of specific setup. I tried to search but it's not finding it for some reason. I was trying to do a 7.1.6. If I look at the manual setup it's set for 13.1. 5ch +SB. Then it's 6ch for height. I've got FH & TM. The rear layout is grayed out but it's set for RH. It's probably something dumb I've overlooked.
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post #3115 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
How do you get 15.1 Auro 3D? If you have FH/SH/RH connected wouldn't Auro just output to SH over RH?
You can't do 15.1ch Auro3D, Auro maxes out at 13.1ch (as does the AVR-X8500H).

The full 13.1ch Auro3D layout would be 7.1 base layer plus FH, CH, TS (aka VOG) and then either SH or RH (either will receive the same signal, but the latter designation ensures compatibility with Atmos/DTS:X).


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post #3116 of 4451 Old 12-05-2018, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
You can't do 15.1ch Auro3D, Auro maxes out at 13.1ch (as does the AVR-X8500H).

The full 13.1ch Auro3D layout would be 7.1 base layer plus FH, CH, TS (aka VOG) and then either SH or RH (either will receive the same signal, but the latter designation ensures compatibility with Atmos/DTS:X).

You are correct regarding the number of discrete channels. However, you can do a 15.1 Auro 3D layout with the X8500H, it simply adds RHs as copies of SH (array) to the 13.1 you've described (it's not either SHs or RHs, it can be both). At least that's the way Datasat described it in their initial installation layout guide (attached, see page 6). It's also mentioned P24 of the Auro 3D Home Theatre Setup guidelines, where they suggest SH at 90 deg and RH at 130deg. I do a version of this and it works well.
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post #3117 of 4451 Old 12-06-2018, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dd2424 View Post
I can't select Dolby Atmos as one of my surround modes. I know I read somewhere the height speakers needed some kind of specific setup. I tried to search but it's not finding it for some reason. I was trying to do a 7.1.6. If I look at the manual setup it's set for 13.1. 5ch +SB. Then it's 6ch for height. I've got FH & TM. The rear layout is grayed out but it's set for RH. It's probably something dumb I've overlooked.
If you have run Audyssey Setup with the listed configuration above and the audio track received by the AVR is ATMOS, then ATMOS should be a selectable surround mode when the MOVIE button is pressed. Note however, the source must also be set to "bitstream" and "Secondary Audio" or "Mix" must be disabled.
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post #3118 of 4451 Old 12-06-2018, 09:16 AM
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I am just curious how efficient are Denon AVR internal amplifiers? I saw that the AVR-X8500H has a A/B amplifier and has a large power transformer to handle the 13 channels of amplification but as more channels are added to the load you be very fortunate to get 70 watts max, when all channels are driven at the same time, given that all available current from the wall outlet is utilized. I have never owned a Denon receiver and this is something I am considering before I purchase this receiver. Also I couldn't find any reviews on the bench test performance for this receiver online anywhere.
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post #3119 of 4451 Old 12-06-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HTRAK View Post
I am just curious how efficient are Denon AVR internal amplifiers? I saw that the AVR-X8500H has a A/B amplifier and has a large power transformer to handle the 13 channels of amplification but as more channels are added to the load you be very fortunate to get 70 watts max, when all channels are driven at the same time, given that all available current from the wall outlet is utilized. I have never owned a Denon receiver and this is something I am considering before I purchase this receiver. Also I couldn't find any reviews on the bench test performance for this receiver online anywhere.
If you are not jamming to music, you will blow yourself out of a room watching a movie if you crank it. I can not imagine being comfortable watching a movie that loud. Music is different, that is why I have some Red Dragon Audio 1000 Watt mono blocks
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post #3120 of 4451 Old 12-06-2018, 10:23 AM
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You shouldn't need that much power driving 13 channels at once. Every doubling of speakers adds 3dB output to the room at the same power level (more in a corner). That is the equivalent of doubling amplifier power. Thus, what you need to drive 2 channels to 105dB is 2x what is needed to drive 4 speakers of the same efficiency to that level in a typical room assuming equal distances. 8 channels would be 1/4 of the power to drive two, etc. That assumed an average level, but it tends to work out. Think of it as the same total power either way. If 150 Watts gets you 105dB with two, 150 total (or 75 each) will get you 105dB with four on average. With 13, you'd need right around 23 watts per channel to get about the same output level as 150x2. In reality, channel requirements will vary by how many are playing at once and their level, but the overall point is you won't need anywhere near 150x13 or whatever its max is in two channel mode.
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