The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread - Page 151 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4501 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 355F1 View Post
I actually did.....before I posted.

Sorry but I was still unclear due to it saying Mono for the Zones.
Mono outputs for ZONE2, ZONE3 are used if you already run 11 amps for MAIN ZONE and want to run also ZONE2 and ZONE3. With only two more amps left, the only option is mono for the two additional Zones.
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post #4502 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 02:15 PM
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Wishing and hoping some way, some how the 8500 will get firmware upgraded to be 15-channels smacks of buyer's remorse to me.... (i.e. I wish I hadn't dropped over $4K on an AVR that is already out of date even before it gets its HDMI 2.1 (you will pay for it dearly) upgrade when I could have had a V8...I mean 9.1.6 AVR coming out later this year or early next year instead for similar money.) Either enjoy what you have or get rid of if while it's still worth something. The chances of it getting a 15-channel upgrade of any kind are almost NIL (this isn't NAD; it's Denon). The chances of it getting a magical firmware upgrade to get 15 channels? ZERO.
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Click THEATER (Updated: May-22-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 8-26-19)
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post #4503 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Wishing and hoping some way, some how the 8500 will get firmware upgraded to be 15-channels smacks of buyer's remorse to me.... (i.e. I wish I hadn't dropped over $4K on an AVR that is already out of date even before it gets its HDMI 2.1 (you will pay for it dearly) upgrade when I could have had a V8...I mean 9.1.6 AVR coming out later this year or early next year instead for similar money.) Either enjoy what you have or get rid of if while it's still worth something. The chances of it getting a 15-channel upgrade of any kind are almost NIL (this isn't NAD; it's Denon). The chances of it getting a magical firmware upgrade to get 15 channels? ZERO.
Interested in selling...... ????


LoL


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post #4504 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 355F1 View Post
Interested in selling...... ????


LoL


I went with the 7012 + Scatmos for those reasons so I don't have one to sell you. I watch this thread for new developments as it does get some new features added the rest of us do not get.

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post #4505 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 355F1 View Post
Interested in selling...... ????





LoL





9.2.6 is overkill for 99.9% of home theaters...spend your time and money on the acoustics of your room and you'll be way ahead...

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post #4506 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by charlypittsburgh View Post
9.2.6 is overkill for 99.9% of home theaters...spend your time and money on the acoustics of your room and you'll be way ahead...

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I'm only doing a 5.2 system in my new house with whole house audio.
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post #4507 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by charlypittsburgh View Post
9.2.6 is overkill for 99.9% of home theaters...spend your time and money on the acoustics of your room and you'll be way ahead...

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I guess my 11.1.6 is really overkill, then. (Stuart Bowling from Dolby Corporation, on of the fathers of Dolby Atmos complimented my system publicly when he saw it on RPF Forums, so I'll take that as approval I did OK expanding it beyond 7.1.4 in his eyes for three rows of seats).
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post #4508 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
I guess my 11.1.6 is really overkill, then. (Stuart Bowling from Dolby Corporation, on of the fathers of Dolby Atmos complimented my system publicly when he saw it on RPF Forums, so I'll take that as approval I did OK expanding it beyond 7.1.4 in his eyes for three rows of seats).
So you're saying somebody from Dolby complemented you on your Dolby system

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post #4509 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by charlypittsburgh View Post
So you're saying somebody from Dolby complemented you on your Dolby system

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Get someone from DTS to say something wonderful about your Dolby system then I'll be impressed..

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post #4510 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by charlypittsburgh View Post
So you're saying somebody from Dolby complemented you on your Dolby system

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No, I'm saying someone from Dolby gave me a complement (i.e. complimented me) on my Auro-3D, DTS:X and Dolby Atmos home theater system.
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post #4511 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 07:53 PM
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No, I'm saying someone from Dolby gave me a complement (i.e. complimented me) on my Auro-3D, DTS:X and Dolby Atmos home theater system.
So your saying that he complemented you on what he read about your sound system system...not what he actually heard?

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post #4512 of 4694 Old 08-03-2019, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
No, I'm saying someone from Dolby gave me a complement (i.e. complimented me) on my Auro-3D, DTS:X and Dolby Atmos home theater system.
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Originally Posted by charlypittsburgh View Post
So your saying that he complemented you on what he read about your sound system system...not what he actually heard?

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post #4513 of 4694 Old 08-04-2019, 03:41 AM
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So your saying that he complemented you on what he read about your sound system system...not what he actually heard?

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No, he teleported to my house and watched Willy Wonka's new DTS:X mix with me....

I'm obviously referring to the layout and expansion of the system via "scatmos" and matrixed additions, not to mention using an Auro-3D style top middle, not the PSB speakers' sound or whatever. I figured if it's Dolby approved, I took that as a complement. But you seem to be looking to warp it into something else for some reason I can only imagine. Have fun with that.

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post #4514 of 4694 Old 08-04-2019, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Wishing and hoping some way, some how the 8500 will get firmware upgraded to be 15-channels smacks of buyer's remorse to me.... (i.e. I wish I hadn't dropped over $4K on an AVR that is already out of date even before it gets its HDMI 2.1 (you will pay for it dearly) upgrade when I could have had a V8...I mean 9.1.6 AVR coming out later this year or early next year instead for similar money.) Either enjoy what you have or get rid of if while it's still worth something. The chances of it getting a 15-channel upgrade of any kind are almost NIL (this isn't NAD; it's Denon). The chances of it getting a magical firmware upgrade to get 15 channels? ZERO.
You just can not keep up with the way things are flying in homer audio/video....enjoy what you got
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post #4515 of 4694 Old 08-04-2019, 09:05 AM
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Denon AVR-X8500H Today

8 x 2-Channel DAC chips = 16 channels Available - 15 used, 1 reserve - steps necessary to use all 16 channels - not clear

13 power amplifier channels

15 active preamp outputs - 7.2.6 and other options

2 x 8-Channel volume control chips - 16 channels of volume control available

The above doesn't count resources used for zone 2 and 3, and network, which are separate

The above may be interesting, but in the overall cost structure it's not a big deal to gen a small signal analog circuit board, or the DAC board, so small signal channels could be added quite easily.

There must be a practical limit on power amplifier channels in one box. I'd rather just have an AVP and eliminate the limitations and performance issues of internal power amplifiers. That of course costs more however...
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Thanks, I was hoping you'd chime in since I know you've examined the service manuals and internals (and actually know WTF you're talking about).

So it sounds like the only potential limitation to 9.1.6 processing would be DSP horsepower, since there are 16 channels of DAC and volume control.
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Using two subwoofer outputs means using two DACs (assuming independent delay for each sub is done in the digital domain prior to D/A conversion) and two volume controls (since each sub has independent level trim), leaving 14 channels of DAC and volume control. So, doing 9+6 might require sacrificing one subwoofer output (like is required on 11.2 models when using Auro's VOG speaker). As for DSP horsepower, I think the D&M flagships are using similar DSP chipsets as the Emo RMC-1 (maybe without the ARM processor, but that's not used for decoding anyway).

The post at the top of this post appears to have not been clear. The key point is that 15 preamp channels are active. With the current physical design of the hardware that's the limit.

The unit is setup for x.2.x channels, which in this context means the subwoofers take two channels as noted above. This might be able to be changed in firmware to x.1.x, but as noted above the ability to set levels and delays for two subwoofer channels would be lost.

The basic hardware appears to be in place for one more channel. Several circuit boards would have to be physically revised to use the one added channel plus other miscellaneous changes. With Monoprice evidently providing flexible use of 16-channels that may be a motivation to change to 16-channels in the future model. Many people seem to use external hardware to manage multiple subwoofers, so x.1.x combined with 16-channels appears to provide the opportunity for two added channels in some cases, given appropriate firmware.


Some unknowns: What is the sweet spot in the number of channels for advanced users? What's the maximum practical limit on power amplifier channels in an AVR? In reference to recent issues raised by Audioholics, what steps will be taken to improve the quality/output level capabilities of external preamp outputs for channels that have an unused power amplifier?
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post #4516 of 4694 Old 08-04-2019, 11:27 AM
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Smile No hay magia para nosotros.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Wishing and hoping some way, some how the 8500 will get firmware upgraded to be 15-channels smacks of buyer's remorse to me.... (i.e. I wish I hadn't dropped over $4K on an AVR that is already out of date even before it gets its HDMI 2.1 (you will pay for it dearly) upgrade when I could have had a V8...I mean 9.1.6 AVR coming out later this year or early next year instead for similar money.) Either enjoy what you have or get rid of if while it's still worth something. The chances of it getting a 15-channel upgrade of any kind are almost NIL (this isn't NAD; it's Denon). The chances of it getting a magical firmware upgrade to get 15 channels? ZERO.
Sorry MagnumX - Denon is not Merlin - so no magic. Lo siento amigo.

I am going to wait at least another three years to start thinking about an upgrade. No 9500, but maybe 10,500. I am still working on maxing out the 8500, and looking to install a projection system. My work schedule is slothlike. It may be two years before the projection system is up and running.

7.4.6 system with Denon 8500, Additional Amps: Emotiva (front and center) and NAD (wide), classic Klipsch speakers.
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post #4517 of 4694 Old 08-04-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Alanlee View Post
Sorry MagnumX - Denon is not Merlin - so no magic. Lo siento amigo.

I am going to wait at least another three years to start thinking about an upgrade. No 9500, but maybe 10,500. I am still working on maxing out the 8500, and looking to install a projection system. My work schedule is slothlike. It may be two years before the projection system is up and running.
A bit OT...but regardless of the timeframe, you’re looking forward to a new, exciting, and wonderfully immersive viewing experience!
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post #4518 of 4694 Old 08-04-2019, 10:18 PM
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Posted on another thread, moving here. I'm looking to upgrade amp and x8500h seems the best candidate, but I'd like to compare against other ones and I'm having hard time finding anything to compare against. Is x8500h really the best even it's already ~1.5 years old? Nothing else to compare?

From other thread:

I'd like to get somewhat future proof, so for example if next year xbox comes the x8500h should be ok after the upgrade? In general my required features are pretty limited:

-11.2 powered outs (7.2.4 setup, the 9.2.4 with wide-fronts would be bonus but not really needed). Also the .2 is not needed, I'm splitting it anyway and each sub has own controls so 7.1.4 is same to me as 7.2.4
-HDMI2.1 would be nice, or at minimum pass-through for anything (is that even possible?)

Nice to have:
-integrated spotify

Things I don't think I need:
-multi-zone
-pre-outs

Trying to search online for amps, it all seem to come back to x6500h or x8500h. Are there really no good alternatives to compare?
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post #4519 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tpatana View Post
Posted on another thread, moving here. I'm looking to upgrade amp and x8500h seems the best candidate, but I'd like to compare against other ones and I'm having hard time finding anything to compare against. Is x8500h really the best even it's already ~1.5 years old? Nothing else to compare?



From other thread:



I'd like to get somewhat future proof, so for example if next year xbox comes the x8500h should be ok after the upgrade? In general my required features are pretty limited:



-11.2 powered outs (7.2.4 setup, the 9.2.4 with wide-fronts would be bonus but not really needed). Also the .2 is not needed, I'm splitting it anyway and each sub has own controls so 7.1.4 is same to me as 7.2.4

-HDMI2.1 would be nice, or at minimum pass-through for anything (is that even possible?)



Nice to have:

-integrated spotify



Things I don't think I need:

-multi-zone

-pre-outs



Trying to search online for amps, it all seem to come back to x6500h or x8500h. Are there really no good alternatives to compare?
The 8500 will be able to be upgraded to HDMI 2.1

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post #4520 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 07:42 AM
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If I were to select ONE additional channel, I would go for center height. For those of us with non-AT projection screens, moving the dialog to a phantom center of the screen would be the best use, in my opinion.

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post #4521 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 07:53 AM
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If I were to select ONE additional channel, I would go for center height. For those of us with non-AT projection screens, moving the dialog to a phantom center of the screen would be the best use, in my opinion.
If I were to add two additional height speakers (going from .4 to .6) can I use two of the height speakers as a "Voice of god" speaker for Auro 3D?

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post #4522 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 08:06 AM
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I had a dream last night that I found an AVR-X8500h brand new for $2700 from an authorized dealer and I kept checking my porch every morning when I woke up like a kid waiting for Christmas Day.......


hahahahahaha!!!!

Oh man, this search for an AVR is pervading my dreams now!
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😎It's just life, dude. We are all gonna die sometime--Might as well try and have a kickass time while we're still here.😜
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post #4523 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 08:46 AM
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I was just wandering if there has been reports of the X8500H suffering from the Audyssey buzzing noise issue that mostly afflicted the X6300H model but was also found to be present on Denon's X7200WA albeit to a much lesser degree, certainly not as widespread an issue as it was for the X6300H but apparently this issue was seemingly fixed by Denon.

I found an owner mentioning over at the UK AV forums that his X8500H suffered from speaker hum through all speakers regardless of volume level, https://www.avforums.com/threads/den...r-hum.2170233/ seems very much an isolated incident and no relation to the previously documented X6300H Audyssey buzzing noise issue.
Anyone at all have any buzzing noise issues that is apparently exacerbated by using Audyssey with their X8500H?

This was an issue with mostly the X6300H & X7200WA units that Denon acknowledged there was a fault with their motherboards or the DAC board.
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post #4524 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 08:58 AM
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If I were to add two additional height speakers (going from .4 to .6) can I use two of the height speakers as a "Voice of god" speaker for Auro 3D?
I think you can do that now. Add physical middle height speakers and use the VOG output of the X8500 to feed them. If they are 4 ohm, wire them in series and if they are 8 ohm, wire them in parallel. I have the full Auro 13.1 setup with an actual VOG speaker, but I believe that a pair of middle height speakers slaved together "could" result in a phantom VOG.

Of course, I could (and have) done the same for Center speakers above and below the screen to get a phantom Center at the middle of the screen. But, if the speakers are not identical (mine weren't), one needs to balance them before running Audyssey. I did this with an extra 2 Ch amp with individually adjustable outputs and fed them from the Center pre-out. Using a test tone, I individually adjusted each amp output until my ear was hearing the test tone from the center of the screen. Then, I ran Audyssey to balance this combined center with the rest of the speakers. It would be SO much easier if there were a discrete output for CH, with each speaker having it's own amp and Audyssey did the balancing. OR, if DTS:X ever expands to include a CH "object" and the X8500 has software to use the CH speaker connection that is part of the Auro 3D arrangement.

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post #4525 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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If I were to select ONE additional channel, I would go for center height. For those of us with non-AT projection screens, moving the dialog to a phantom center of the screen would be the best use, in my opinion.
Unfortunately, the "Center Height" speaker is NOT intended for a "dialogue lift" phantom center effect to raise the perceived height of the dialogue to the center of the screen.

Plus the "Center Height" speaker is only really relevant to Auro3D currently.

So while the X8500H does support the "Center Height" speaker location, enabling it in your setup won't actually address the issue you're hoping it would solve.

(and FYI to be clear I realize you may be aware of everything I just said, just wanted that to be clear for the general discussion)
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post #4526 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lujan View Post
If I were to add two additional height speakers (going from .4 to .6) can I use two of the height speakers as a "Voice of god" speaker for Auro 3D?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
I think you can do that now. Add physical middle height speakers and use the VOG output of the X8500 to feed them. If they are 4 ohm, wire them in series and if they are 8 ohm, wire them in parallel. I have the full Auro 13.1 setup with an actual VOG speaker, but I believe that a pair of middle height speakers slaved together "could" result in a phantom VOG.
The issue with this approach is that the VOG speaker can't be dual-purposed to act as Top Middle for x.x.6 Atmos playback.

It would be fantastic if the X8500H was smart enough to use the same pair of speakers as Top Middle for Atmos and dual-mono VOG for Auro3D. Alas, this kind of dynamic remapping is a feature only found on more expensive processors.

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post #4527 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 12:42 PM
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Wishing and hoping some way, some how the 8500 will get firmware upgraded to be 15-channels smacks of buyer's remorse to me.... (i.e. I wish I hadn't dropped over $4K on an AVR that is already out of date even before it gets its HDMI 2.1 (you will pay for it dearly) upgrade when I could have had a V8...I mean 9.1.6 AVR coming out later this year or early next year instead for similar money.) Either enjoy what you have or get rid of if while it's still worth something. The chances of it getting a 15-channel upgrade of any kind are almost NIL (this isn't NAD; it's Denon). The chances of it getting a magical firmware upgrade to get 15 channels? ZERO.
Why? My Yammi rx 3040 had 9 channels but 11 pre out to two more channel power amps to make 11. I haven,t yet sold my two stereo Power amps (from biamping front RnL) and may hang on to them just in case, although here in "lil ole england" struggled to fit 13....

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post #4528 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The issue with this approach is that the VOG speaker can't be dual-purposed to act as Top Middle for x.x.6 Atmos playback.

It would be fantastic if the X8500H was smart enough to use the same pair of speakers as Top Middle for Atmos and dual-mono VOG for Auro3D. Alas, this kind of dynamic remapping is a feature only found on more expensive processors.
Absolutely. It's either/or for the two. You "makes your choice" for one or the other. It is nice that the X8500 can sort out Auro 3D's 13 speaker locations from those of Atmos (and hopefully 13 ch DTS:X if it ever comes), but as you say it isn't smart enough (or programmed enough) to do anything else.

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post #4529 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 12:48 PM
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Now another moan about the X8500.


IN UK and Europe it is an AVC-X8500H without FM/AM Radio, So tonight with a dab/fm tuner plugged into the Tuner rca input the Denon display suddenly shows FM and frequency and switchable to AM and even able to Tune and Preset! But muted no audio as no aerial socket. What's that all about? And certainly doen't isnpire confidence on Denon Just knobbling the inbuilt tuner?. Why didn't they just leave it working?

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post #4530 of 4694 Old 08-05-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The issue with this approach is that the VOG speaker can't be dual-purposed to act as Top Middle for x.x.6 Atmos playback.

It would be fantastic if the X8500H was smart enough to use the same pair of speakers as Top Middle for Atmos and dual-mono VOG for Auro3D. Alas, this kind of dynamic remapping is a feature only found on more expensive processors.
Hi!

That VOG comment got me thinking of my Apollo processor here:

https://www.americanmusical.com/Item...AaAl5DEALw_wcB

and my VOG module VOG. I have used that Plugin for voice processing with success on audio recorded ausio tracks and those two links can allow the VOG on the fly, if desired.


OTOH, a stand alone piece such as the: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ittle-labs-vog might work well also.

OTOH, I had a 7.1 Meridian suite, with an above the screen soffit mounted dsp5000, angled to listener and floor L &R, but that was before Apollo (in any sense) and was very odd for horizontal pans, at the least. My expectation is that the VOGconcept will not be a satisfactory center, in most cases, but is it is one's taste, the Apollo and plugin route is one option that would be worth exploring.

Thank you very much

FURY
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