The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 4591 Old 01-26-2018, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
This isn't really a new feature, as it was available on previous models like the X7200W and 4520CI. To be honest, I consider it essentially a marketing gimmick with dubious real world benefits. The amps are disconnected from the signal input but they aren't "turned off", they just sit there idling with no signal. So maybe there's some tiny incremental benefit in from disconnecting them. But I wouldn't make my decision based on this feature.

Personally, if you're looking for a cheaper inroad into separates, I'd rather use the "free amps" in the unit to power the less important channels (e.g. overheads, back surrounds) and get better amps for the more important channels. This hybrid approach where you use some receiver amps + some separate amps is a lot better value.
Thank you for the answer.

I have a Nad M25 for power in my 5.1.2 system.
For the moment I use a Denon 3400 as "pre", earlier I had the Emotiva Xmc-1 but wanted to use my Atmos and 4k HDR system.

Going to upgrade but Emotiva are slow so looking to Denon 8500 maybe. Perhaps Marantz 8012, 7704 or 8805.
But I need to be sure so I can keep it for some time.

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post #32 of 4591 Old 01-26-2018, 12:55 PM
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from x6300 to x8500 is it worth it ?

i just place order x8500h upgraded from 6300 . is it worth it ? i order 2 xtra pair svs high sp . from 7.4 to 15.1 .
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post #33 of 4591 Old 01-26-2018, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
[B]
Here's a nice little tidbit for those of you not using a RS-232 controller. To add and be able to access these additional source labels to your unit using either the Denon or Harmony remote, simply press/hold the DOWN arrow and BACK buttons while powering on the AVR, Enjoy!



Will the above work to get Aux3-Aux7 on the 8500H?
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post #34 of 4591 Old 01-26-2018, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Irwinroad View Post
Will the above work to get Aux3-Aux7 on the 8500H?
Should yes, as it's a "flagship" model.
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post #35 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 08:44 AM
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As pr JD request i am moving it to this thread:


Quote:
Originally Posted by timc1475 View Post
Thank you Nalleh, I guess I just need someone to teach me exactly what config & total speakers etc. I must do as it is kinda confusing for this old man. IOW using only the 8500H with 13 ch & AMPS for a 7.1.6 Atmos & Auro 3D config you do in the page diagram JD listed in his post but...

Now JD did this but showed a "15.1" config so I am unsure if another AVR would be needed for the 15.1 since the 8500 only is 13.2 capable. The VOG I assume would not run off of the 2nd sub out like the current 6300H. Either I am plain dumb or I am not asking my question specific enough or maybe I am not making myself clear enough. I currently have a 7.1.4 + a VOG on sub #2 out now on the 6300H.

To power the 6300H 2nd sub out for the VOG I am forced to use another AVR. So would I still need to use this 2nd AVR or will the 8500H be enough for a 7.1.6 Atmos & Auro 3D 13.1? Where I get confused is when JD mentioned the 15.1, but I only have 12 speakers total now, 7 on the floor + 4 ceiling + the VOG. Would I need more speakers or another AVR to do 15.1?

If you want 7.1.5 as you have today, the 8500 is MORE than capable of doing that all alone, and no need for Sub2 pre-out either, as JD’s diagram shows.

Since the diagram shows both a 7.1.6 Atmos setup and a Auro 13.1 setup where they use slightly different ceiling speakers, that is where the 15.1 config comes from. Atmos uses 13 of the 15 speakers connected(7.1+FH+TM+RH), and Auro uses 13 of those 15(7.1+FH+RH+TS+CH), and the AVR switches automatically.


Your setup would be the bottom pne on this page:

http://manuals.denon.com/avrx8500h/n...SYzojpzxwn.php
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post #36 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timc1475 View Post
I just added an update to the above as I was working on it. Thanks for moving the info btw. We are getting closer to full clarity:

Currently I have a total of 12 speakers + 1 sub. From what I understand then is I can add the 2 TM speakers = TML & TMR & connections and the 1 CH speaker & connection & that would equate the full 13 ch & the full 13 8500H amped channels playable by the 8500. The current VOG would be used by both formats as needed. Finally! This is what I needed to understand! lol TY!

I apologize for not understanding this sooner. If they updated the 8500H manual to add the above sentence...

Correct. Exept VOG is not active in Atmos. Let me put it this way: the Atmos and Auro setup we speak of here, use the same 11 speakers, and the difference is in Atmos the Top Middle is active(2 speakers) while in Auro the Top Surround+Center Height is active(2 speakers)= 13 on both.
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post #37 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timc1475 View Post
I just added an update to the above as I was working on it. Thanks for moving the info btw. We are getting closer to full clarity:

Currently I have a total of 12 speakers + 1 sub. From what I understand then is I can add the 2 TM speakers = TML & TMR & connections and the 1 CH speaker & connection & that would equate the full 13 ch & the full 13 8500H amped channels playable by the 8500. The current VOG would be used by both formats as needed & be called the TS or CH.

I think in the diagram which I will post again below is the issue by not being clear. As it states "OR" for the CH & TS meaning not them both for Auro 3D config which would equate only 12 amped channels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Correct. Exept VOG is not active in Atmos. Let me put it this way: the Atmos and Auro setup we speak of here, use the same 11 speakers, and the difference is in Atmos the Top Middle is active(2 speakers) while in Auro the Top Surround+Center Height is active(2 speakers)= 13 on both.
Thanks Nalleh. I added to my prior post as I was in update mode. The manual confused me & possibly others with the "OR" part. Hopefully going forward we saved others from this potential headache.

Looks like I will need to buy 3 more speakers the TML & TMR & CH. lol

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post #38 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timc1475 View Post

I think in the diagram which I will post again below is the issue by not being clear. As it states "OR" for the CH & TS meaning not them both for Auro 3D config which would equate only 12 amped channels.
I agree, the «or» can be misleading, but just think of is «optional». You can pretty much do whatever Auro setup you want with this unit, from 9.1 up to 13.1.
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post #39 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 09:21 AM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
I agree, the «or» can be misleading, but just think of is «optional». You can pretty much do whatever Auro setup you want with this unit, from 9.1 up to 13.1.
You my friend are awesome.

I have been taking notes on a few major things I will need to do like:

1) turning the auto update to "ON" as it is defaulted to off for some odd reason.

2) The 4K signal format must be set to "enhanced" for 4K @ 60Hz. Yup it is defaulted to off.

3) In the audyssey setup and config make sure you set the fronts & backs to "floor layout" 5ch + SB and height SP to 8ch as the below diagram shows.

4) Make sure all your HDMI's are certified full spec & beware of equipment placement as certain things like cordless phones & gateways can cause hum or hiss interferences in your speakers especially if you have self powered subs in them like my 2 main front Definitive BP7001SC do. A few years ago I found out a gateway was creating a feedback loop in 1 of them as the gateway was too close. Took forever to figure that one out...

4) Plus a few other things I can't remember just now...

Do we really have to be rocket scientists to go through this full process & I wonder if TPTB realize this? Thank goodness for these threads and the owners because the techs at any place at times know very little, we all know this.

Does anyone else see the contradiction in wording and meaning of the asterisk paragraph on the bottom right of the diagram in the pictorial below? lol "Use surround heights" initially...but then it says "install rear heights instead of surround heights"!!! & screams...

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post #40 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 09:30 AM
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OK...

I am torn between the Denon 8500 and the Marantz 8012.

If you take away the price difference - and the fact that one is 13.2 and one is 11.2...

Which is the "better" option for 70% music 30% movies?

What are the other differences - just the toroidal transformer?

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AVR and Speakers: Marantz 8012, or... and GE Triton Reference, or...
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post #41 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timc1475 View Post
Does anyone else see the contradiction in wording and meaning of the asterisk paragraph on the bottom right of the diagram in the pictorial below? lol "Use surround heights" initially...but then it says "install rear heights instead of surround heights"!!! & screams...
That caveat is explaining that you can designate that pair as either surround height or rear height for Auro, but if you want that same speaker pair to be recognized with an Atmos source signal you must use the latter labelling since Dolby Atmos/DSU does not recognize the surround height designation.
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post #42 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
That caveat is explaining that you can designate that pair as either surround height or rear height for Auro, but if you want that same speaker pair to be recognized with an Atmos source signal you must use the latter labelling since Dolby Atmos/DSU does not recognize the surround height designation.
Good caveat chi_guy50. I spect the notion to use the surround height designate is for lesser than the 13.1 config I am shooting for.

BTW I just got an email from D & M tech and I agreed to their offer for my 6300H for trade in on the 8500H. He said he will now forward the info to corporate to send me the finer details of the 6300H return shipment and receiving of the 8500H.

Not really looking forward to pulling out my big Tv & stand with all those wires but this is the caveat in upgrading. What takes a normal person 2 hours to complete sadly takes me 2 days...but in the end I can do it at least. Which is >

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post #43 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Since the diagram shows both a 7.1.6 Atmos setup and a Auro 13.1 setup where they use slightly different ceiling speakers, that is where the 15.1 config comes from. Atmos uses 13 of the 15 speakers connected(7.1+FH+TM+RH), and Auro uses 13 of those 15(7.1+FH+RH+TS+CH), and the AVR switches automatically.


Your setup would be the bottom pne on this page:

http://manuals.denon.com/avrx8500h/n...SYzojpzxwn.php
And, taking advantage of the X8500H's 15.2 speaker calibration capability, I assume that one can substitute FW speakers in lieu of TM and still enjoy automatic switching between Dolby Atmos (or DTS:X/Neural:X) 9.1.4 and Auro 13.1 (7.1+FH+RH+TS+CH).

If I am suitably impressed with my first exposure to Auro, I might be tempted to install my spare set of 80F/X-RT's in the above configuration, recognizing that the FH/RH pairing might entail a slight compromise over TF/TR for Atmos. Otherwise, since I would rather enjoy Atmos 9.1.4 over 7.1.6, there is not much chance at present that I would want to go to the trouble of mounting a third set of overhead speakers in my rather small space.

I am hopeful that batpig, and/or JD, will be able to provide us with some feedback on this score once they get their new X8500H's up and running.
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post #44 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
And, taking advantage of the X8500H's 15.2 speaker calibration capability, I assume that one can substitute FW speakers in lieu of TM and still enjoy automatic switching between Dolby Atmos (or DTS:X/Neural:X) 9.1.4 and Auro 13.1 (7.1+FH+RH+TS+CH).
Correct.

However DTS still has a 11.1 limit, so 7.1.4 only on that format.
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post #45 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Correct.

However DTS still has a 11.1 limit, so 7.1.4 only on that format.
I have no personal experience with DTS:X, but I believe I have read that one can overlay Neural:X on DTS:X. Would that not provide matrixed FW?

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post #46 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
I have no personal experience with DTS:X, but I believe I have read that one can overlay Neural:X on DTS:X. Would that not provide matrixed FW?
Yes, if you disable another set of speakers, like height2 or surround backs. Otherwise it would result in more than the 11.1 limit, agreed?

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post #47 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Yes, if you disable another set of speakers, like height2 or surround backs. Otherwise it would result in more than the 11.1 limit, agreed?
Yes, that would appear to be the case (see footnote *2 on p. 320 of the Owner's Manual) although I was hoping that this processor would provide the same 13ch output for DTS:X as for Atmos even if it entailed matrixing.
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post #48 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 02:40 PM
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Looking over the Denon website for our beloved X8500H, this picture ....




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #49 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 03:38 PM
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For anyone who might be interested in the silver X8500H, I see that trusted retailer abt.com is showing it available for special order along with the traditional (for the North American market) black model.
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post #50 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 04:10 PM
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Hi
Just went into best buy and ask them about x8500h
Unless you take the extra Bust Buy extended warranty for $$$$ with them if something go wrong with it you have to deal with Denon direct !!!
So what is the point buying other than online
My order is going in to av JD as soon as my friend conferm he will have my old 6200
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post #51 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Unboxing porn requested, and the Dude abides.

Some comparison shots showing how much the 8500 dwarfs the 6300!

Also a comparison of the remotes, not the small LCD screen and ?macro? buttons at the bottom.
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post #52 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Unboxing porn requested, and the Dude abides.

Some comparison shots showing how much the 8500 dwarfs the 6300!

Also a comparison of the remotes, not the small LCD screen and ?macro? buttons at the bottom.
WOW! That really brings it home!

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post #53 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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It?s LITERALLY in my home!

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post #54 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
As pr JD request i am moving it to this thread:




If you want 7.1.5 as you have today, the 8500 is MORE than capable of doing that all alone, and no need for Sub2 pre-out either, as JD’s diagram shows.

Since the diagram shows both a 7.1.6 Atmos setup and a Auro 13.1 setup where they use slightly different ceiling speakers, that is where the 15.1 config comes from. Atmos uses 13 of the 15 speakers connected(7.1+FH+TM+RH), and Auro uses 13 of those 15(7.1+FH+RH+TS+CH), and the AVR switches automatically.


Your setup would be the bottom pne on this page:

http://manuals.denon.com/avrx8500h/n...SYzojpzxwn.php
Is there a diagram for wiring 5.1 plus FW plus Top Rear, Top Middle, and Top Front (ceiling speakers, not wall height speakers)? Rear Surround base speakers tend to get blocked by headrests.

See ya. Dave

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post #55 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 05:54 PM
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Is there a diagram for wiring 5.1 plus FW plus Top Rear, Top Middle, and Top Front (ceiling speakers, not wall height speakers)? Rear Surround base speakers tend to get blocked by headrests.
It's not possible to configure FW + 6 height speakers.
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Last edited by jdsmoothie; 01-28-2018 at 05:02 AM.
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post #56 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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A bit of sad news from early testing. It appears the unprecedented DSU capability of upmixing to the front wide speakers is a typo in the manual
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post #57 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 08:48 PM
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A bit of sad news from early testing. It appears the unprecedented DSU capability of upmixing to the front wide speakers is a typo in the manual
Wow, sorry to hear that for those that were going that route. For me it is moot though.

I seen on the USA Denon site in the specs for the 8500H TPTB also had the weight off quite a bit. I emailed em' so hopefully they will correct it.

Looking forward to your deeper review of all other aspects BP. I have the 6300H and dwarfed it was! lol


If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.
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post #58 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 09:59 PM
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A bit of sad news from early testing. It appears the unprecedented DSU capability of upmixing to the front wide speakers is a typo in the manual
Wow, how did that happen?!?
So when you press info, they are not shown as active either?

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post #59 of 4591 Old 01-27-2018, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
It's the same diagram, rather simply, the SBL/SBR speakers are not connected and the FWL/FWR are connected to the Height 4/Front Wide speaker posts.
Ehhh, didn’t we discuss this earlier: you can not have wides and 6 heights in Atmos ?

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 6xSI18" - 8xJBL 12" BOSS - 4xJBL 12" w/SLAPS M12" VNF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873.
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post #60 of 4591 Old 01-28-2018, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
A bit of sad news from early testing. It appears the unprecedented DSU capability of upmixing to the front wide speakers is a typo in the manual

If this really proves to be the case, I for one am hugely disappointed- particularly as DTS-Neural X is also limited to just 11 channels. While I’m looking at the Marantz equivalent pre-pro, the Denon and Marantz are so similar in their operation that I can assume the same limitation will apply.

Having wired for 9.1.4 in the full expectation of being able to use all 9 base level speakers at all times, this is a massive blow. So much so that I may even reconsider buying the 8805, and pick up an end of line 8802A, which are selling for pretty much half-price here in the UK. I’m now struggling to see the benefit in having 9 base level speakers when the vast majority of my movie collection doesn’t have Atmos encoded sound tracks.

Seriously (re)considering my options now.
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