The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread - Page 214 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6391 of 6508 Old 06-29-2020, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Anteranz View Post
I see them as important but I would prefer that more time and dedication be invested in a better room correction or that the dialog improver be improved because the truth is that this new option in the 8500h I see as very little customizable
More often than not, dialog related issues are more likely the result of either poor Center speaker placement (ie. not angled up towards your head prior to running Audyssey rather than simply sitting on a shelf pointing at your knees) or not using a good quality Center speaker. XT32 in and of itself should improve the dialog quality and using the Dialog Enhancer setting just adds to that improvement. The source itself may have been mixed poorly resulting in poor dialog. Additionally, Dynamic Volume can be used to improve lower level volume issues. Bottom line, dialog related issues can be resolved.
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post #6392 of 6508 Old 06-29-2020, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Anteranz View Post
I see them as important but I would prefer that more time and dedication be invested in a better room correction....
Audyssey MultEQ XT32 needs very little to become "perfect":
- a Fletcher-Munson house curve in addition to the Reference or Flat - or replacing one of them with the Fletcher-Munson house curve (current mitigation - using the MultEQ app for adjusting the Reference into a house curve);
- taming the Dynamic EQ relative to the 3D audio formats - Atmos/DTS:X (current mitigation - using Reference Level Offset or manual speaker levels adjustment);


Not related to the actual room correction system:
- the MultEQ app to be made more friendly - easy to edit and apply edits to channels, maybe a Desktop app, etc.;
- the new Dual Speaker Profile is huge progress already - sadly, will not be backported to older AVRs as probably there is not enough free storage on them;

Not everything in this world is solved by Dirac, and to be honest, the "free" built-in Dirac (without any app) in the receivers pales against the "free" built-in Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (without any app).
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post #6393 of 6508 Old 06-29-2020, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anteranz View Post
I see them as important but I would prefer that more time and dedication be invested in a better room correction....
Audyssey MultEQ XT32 needs very little to become "perfect":
- a Fletcher-Munson house curve in addition to the Reference or Flat - or replacing one of them with the Fletcher-Munson house curve (current mitigation - using the MultEQ app for adjusting the Reference into a house curve);
- taming the Dynamic EQ relative to the 3D audio formats - Atmos/DTS:X (current mitigation - using Reference Level Offset or manual speaker levels adjustment);


Not related to the actual room correction system:
- the MultEQ app to be made more friendly - easy to edit and apply edits to channels, maybe a Desktop app, etc.;
- the new Dual Speaker Profile is huge progress already - sadly, will not be backported to older AVRs as probably there is not enough free storage on them;

Not everything in this world is solved by Dirac, and to be honest, the "free" built-in Dirac (without any app) in the receivers pales against the "free" built-in Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (without any app).

And it seems normal to you that an avr of € 3,500 does not include a simple memory to have two presets? even pioneer yamaha has it costing twice less ... that our 8500 cannot be a commercial lie what happens that they do so that you buy the new model
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post #6394 of 6508 Old 06-29-2020, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Anteranz View Post
And it seems normal to you that an avr of € 3,500 does not include a simple memory to have two presets? even pioneer yamaha has it costing twice less ... that our 8500 cannot be a commercial lie what happens that they do so that you buy the new model
But it has nothing to do with your original request for "a better room correction".

We always want more free features - and the grass is always greener on the other side - unless you actually walk on it and it is just the same or, God forbid, worse!
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post #6395 of 6508 Old 06-29-2020, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
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Originally Posted by Anteranz View Post
And it seems normal to you that an avr of € 3,500 does not include a simple memory to have two presets? even pioneer yamaha has it costing twice less ... that our 8500 cannot be a commercial lie what happens that they do so that you buy the new model
But it has nothing to do with your original request for "a better room correction".

We always want more free features - and the grass is always greener on the other side - unless you actually walk on it and it is just the same or, God forbid, worse!


In this case as the HDMI's updater is payable for the logo that the one who wants the first preset pays if he wishes but that the vessel does not bring it to cost what it is not worth me to enter.
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post #6396 of 6508 Old 06-29-2020, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
More often than not, dialog related issues are more likely the result of either poor Center speaker placement (ie. not angled up towards your head prior to running Audyssey rather than simply sitting on a shelf pointing at your knees) or not using a good quality Center speaker.
Or room reflection issues with untreated walls.
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post #6397 of 6508 Old 06-29-2020, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Anteranz - I think it's time for you to get a different receiver. Just a non stop flood of complaints and confusion. Move on.

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post #6398 of 6508 Old 06-29-2020, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by meles View Post
So got a friend with badly broken height 3 binding posts and perhaps another damaged post. Call me crazy, but can one remove all the little screws in the back panel and get it out of the way (panel is a bit bent up at the damaged terminals as well)? My understanding is those connectors are solderless so might one replace them without tearing out all the boards?
I have 2 bent binding posts and the unit works fine...... Are they working? If so leave it alone. I take it he used a check or cash? No paypal or credit card to buy?
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post #6399 of 6508 Old 06-29-2020, 10:24 AM
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I have 2 bent binding posts and the unit works fine...... Are they working? If so leave it alone. I take it he used a check or cash? No paypal or credit card to buy?
No paypal or credit card. one pair of posts are clean snapped off and another has one bent. Is it easy/possible to get the Denon binding posts? Are they unique to Denon?

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post #6400 of 6508 Old 06-29-2020, 04:25 PM
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Anteranz - I think it's time for you to get a different receiver. Just a non stop flood of complaints and confusion. Move on.

of course mate tomorrow!
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post #6401 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 04:58 AM
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Hi,

I think this has been discussed before but I'm still a bit unsure... I am building an AV room. Components are: Denon AVR-x8500H and 2 SVS SB-4000 subs, 7 Monitor Audio speakers from their Silver series (2 x 500, 4 x 300 and a C350) and 6 KEF ceiling speakers. Plus an LG 77" OLED.

I read in some reviews that the reviewer recommended a separate 20A circuit. Only for the receiver I guess...? Is that actually necessary or preferable? Atm my receiver seems to be doing fine on a regular outlet which it shares with everything else but since I'm having the room built in the next couple of months I might as well have it installed if it makes sense.

Any thoughts on that?

/M
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post #6402 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by depechefan View Post
Any thoughts on that?

/M
The Denon is quoted at 900W ([email protected]), and your 2 subwoofers are 1200W each ([email protected]).

However - these are not likely to be drawing anywhere near the Amperes would suggest in normal playback.

Power and current ebb and flow. Circuit Breakers have two modes of protection built in - (i) temperature (overload) and magnetic (short circuit protection) - and it is the former that is likely to be the constraint for you. Often - startup or in-rush used to be the problem, but with newer SMPS etc, even this is less of a problem.

If building a new room, I would have more than one circuit - grouped by position in the room. I can't be more specific - electrics in US very different to here in UK.

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post #6403 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 05:43 AM
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Apparently, for a 15.2ch setup (Dolby Atmos/DTS:X/Auro-3D in one), it has to have top middle speakers in addition to front height and top surround, but can I have front wide speakers instead of top middle and it will still be recognised as a full 15.2 setup?
It only says you have to have top middle speakers in the manual.
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post #6404 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by depechefan View Post
Hi,

I think this has been discussed before but I'm still a bit unsure... I am building an AV room. Components are: Denon AVR-x8500H and 2 SVS SB-4000 subs, 7 Monitor Audio speakers from their Silver series (2 x 500, 4 x 300 and a C350) and 6 KEF ceiling speakers. Plus an LG 77" OLED.

I read in some reviews that the reviewer recommended a separate 20A circuit. Only for the receiver I guess...? Is that actually necessary or preferable? Atm my receiver seems to be doing fine on a regular outlet which it shares with everything else but since I'm having the room built in the next couple of months I might as well have it installed if it makes sense.

Any thoughts on that?

/M
If you are building from scratch and have a choice I would definitely go with 20A for your home theater. If you can do more than one circuit that would be good but it is not necessary at all.

My room only has a single 15A (120v) circuit and I've never had an issue. That includes a x8500, an 8K 88" OLED, Gaming PC, PS4, 11 speakers and 1 sub, and various other components.

The x8500 can do 900w but as stated you will never reach that in normal content. I've measured my OLED at 600W maximum when its playing an 8K HDR video off the internal storage. And my PC gets close to 900W under full load with a stress test. But the thing is these won't all be running under full load at the same time. I've played lots of 4K games on the PC thru the 8500 and OLED and never had any issue with power overload.

And if I'm just watching movies then I would never come close to an overload even if the 8500 was at 900w.
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post #6405 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 09:36 AM
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When setting up a HT, the two most cost-effective things one can do for 110v supply is: 1) inspect your wiring to the outlets and confirm that the builder's electrician used the screw terminals and not the "push-in" terminals on the outlets. Check all outlets between the circuit breaker and your HT outlets (many outlets can be combined in a string from the breaker). 2) change your HT outlets to "Hospital grade" 20amp outlets. These have stronger grip on the plug prongs. They are available online and from Lowes. They are available in many colors, not just the orange that you most frequently see in the big box stores. They will have a green dot next to the plug receptacle. I've always been amazed that someone would pay mega-bucks for a 3' power cord thinking it improves the sound when there can be 100' of plain 14 ga copper wire and multiple outlets between the breaker and the HT outlet.

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post #6406 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
If you are building from scratch and have a choice I would definitely go with 20A for your home theater. If you can do more than one circuit that would be good but it is not necessary at all.

My room only has a single 15A (120v) circuit and I've never had an issue. That includes a x8500, an 8K 88" OLED, Gaming PC, PS4, 11 speakers and 1 sub, and various other components.

The x8500 can do 900w but as stated you will never reach that in normal content. I've measured my OLED at 600W maximum when its playing an 8K HDR video off the internal storage. And my PC gets close to 900W under full load with a stress test. But the thing is these won't all be running under full load at the same time. I've played lots of 4K games on the PC thru the 8500 and OLED and never had any issue with power overload.

And if I'm just watching movies then I would never come close to an overload even if the 8500 was at 900w.
It is better to have the headroom of a 20A breaker and possibly to change out the electrical panel to all at least 20A breakers.

Although I measured it some years ago, my old setup including a 4311 measured 1200+ watts.
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post #6407 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 11:27 AM
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Thanks for the replies regarding my 20 amps question. I will talk to the electrician and get a couple of circuits if possible. I should have mentioned that I’m in Denmark and we use 220v.
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post #6408 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by depechefan View Post
Thanks for the replies regarding my 20 amps question. I will talk to the electrician and get a couple of circuits if possible. I should have mentioned that I’m in Denmark and we use 220v.
You'll be perfectly fine with a single 20A circuit then. I wouldn't get more unless it is very cheap to do so.
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post #6409 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hydra Spectre View Post
Apparently, for a 15.2ch setup (Dolby Atmos/DTS:X/Auro-3D in one), it has to have top middle speakers in addition to front height and top surround, but can I have front wide speakers instead of top middle and it will still be recognised as a full 15.2 setup?
It only says you have to have top middle speakers in the manual.
First off, just to be clear, this is a 13 channel processor. You can CONNECT up to 15 speakers, but only 13 can be active at a time.

The additional connections are intended to facilitate Auro3D formats by allowing the extra speaker positions (especially Center Height + Top Surround) that are used by Auro3D and NOT used by Atmos, and it works out because the "extra" Atmos positions beyond 7.1.4 (either Front Wide or Top Middle) are NOT used by Auro3D.

So option one is a 9.1.4 Atmos layout + two extra Auro3D speakers. Atmos will use 13 speakers (the 9.1.4) and Auro3D will use 13 speakers (dropping the front wides in favor of the CH+TS). That's 9 speakers at ear level (LCR + FW + Surr + SurrBack) and 6 speakers above (FH + RH pairs used by all formats, CH + TS used by Auro3D).

Visually, it's this layout with the addition of Center Height (in between FHR and FHL) and Top Surround (directly above). Note that the front/rear overhead pairs need to be labeled "Height" instead of "Top" to ensure Auro3D compatibility.




The other option is a "7.1.8" layout with 8 overhead/height speakers combined with a standard 7ch ear level layout. In that case, both Atmos and Auro3D will play as "7.1.6" except again Auro3D can't use Top Middle and Atmos can't use CH/TS. This layout is depicted visually below:




It sounds like you're looking for the first option (9.1.4 Atmos + 13.1ch Auro3D) so yes, that works fine. Set the "Floor Layout" to "5ch & SB & FW", and then choose 6 height speakers and the "Front Height + Center Height + Top Surround + Rear Height" option for height layout.

Front Height will be connected to Height 1 output, Rear Height to Height 2, TS/CH to Height 3, and Front Wides will connected to Height 4 / Front Wide.
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post #6410 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 12:46 PM
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If using a mix of pre and internal amps are there any power saving?
There was a big impact in music playing quality going to an external AMP for the FL/FR and i'm thinking about the center now (which i don't use for music.) As there are no plugs connected to FL/FR speaker posts might more power be going to the center now? (maybe i wasn't feeding enough power to the AVR in the first place?) I know the posts are still live (like all the pre-outs are always live), but is power drawn when no speakers are connected, even when they are "active"?

I think i can find room for another amp, but i'm not sure it is worth it. Nor do i have a good test for the center to see if made a diff or not or i'm just over think this all.
I also have some extra Schiit Vidar amps not being used.

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post #6411 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 04:31 PM
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If using a mix of pre and internal amps are there any power saving?
There was a big impact in music playing quality going to an external AMP for the FL/FR and i'm thinking about the center now (which i don't use for music.) As there are no plugs connected to FL/FR speaker posts might more power be going to the center now? (maybe i wasn't feeding enough power to the AVR in the first place?) I know the posts are still live (like all the pre-outs are always live), but is power drawn when no speakers are connected, even when they are "active"?

I think i can find room for another amp, but i'm not sure it is worth it. Nor do i have a good test for the center to see if made a diff or not [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] or i'm just over think this all.
I also have some extra Schiit Vidar amps not being used.

What do you lose by trying those amps in the center?
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post #6412 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 06:30 PM
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Alexa not working with HEOS?

Hi guys,
Does anyone else use Alexa to tell the 8500 (through HEOS) to play Amazon music (or any other music service)? If so, can you tell me if that function is still working since the latest firmware update? That function still works from my HEOS app on my Android phone but it no longer works verbally when using Alexa. It worked great for me until the latest firmware update last week.

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post #6413 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
First off, just to be clear, this is a 13 channel processor. You can CONNECT up to 15 speakers, but only 13 can be active at a time.

The additional connections are intended to facilitate Auro3D formats by allowing the extra speaker positions (especially Center Height + Top Surround) that are used by Auro3D and NOT used by Atmos, and it works out because the "extra" Atmos positions beyond 7.1.4 (either Front Wide or Top Middle) are NOT used by Auro3D.

So option one is a 9.1.4 Atmos layout + two extra Auro3D speakers. Atmos will use 13 speakers (the 9.1.4) and Auro3D will use 13 speakers (dropping the front wides in favor of the CH+TS). That's 9 speakers at ear level (LCR + FW + Surr + SurrBack) and 6 speakers above (FH + RH pairs used by all formats, CH + TS used by Auro3D).

Visually, it's this layout with the addition of Center Height (in between FHR and FHL) and Top Surround (directly above). Note that the front/rear overhead pairs need to be labeled "Height" instead of "Top" to ensure Auro3D compatibility.




The other option is a "7.1.8" layout with 8 overhead/height speakers combined with a standard 7ch ear level layout. In that case, both Atmos and Auro3D will play as "7.1.6" except again Auro3D can't use Top Middle and Atmos can't use CH/TS. This layout is depicted visually below:




It sounds like you're looking for the first option (9.1.4 Atmos + 13.1ch Auro3D) so yes, that works fine. Set the "Floor Layout" to "5ch & SB & FW", and then choose 6 height speakers and the "Front Height + Center Height + Top Surround + Rear Height" option for height layout.

Front Height will be connected to Height 1 output, Rear Height to Height 2, TS/CH to Height 3, and Front Wides will connected to Height 4 / Front Wide.
Thanks for the info. Also, I can't see the images.
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post #6414 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie Racer View Post
Hi guys,
Does anyone else use Alexa to tell the 8500 (through HEOS) to play Amazon music (or any other music service)? If so, can you tell me if that function is still working since the latest firmware update? That function still works from my HEOS app on my Android phone but it no longer works verbally when using Alexa. It worked great for me until the latest firmware update last week.

They are aware of this issue and a fix should be available soon. https://denon-uk.custhelp.com/



"We noticed that our latest update of HEOS FW caused some issues with network connectivity and voice control for ALEXA and Google. We are currently working for a fix and hope that we can provide you such very soon. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused and will inform you here, once these issue are solved."
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post #6415 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra Spectre View Post
Thanks for the info. Also, I can't see the images.
I can see them on my work PC, but not my home one. Weird. Both using the latest version of Firefox. Must be a setting I've got switched on at home.....

Sony XBR-65A9F, Sony UBP-X700, Denon AVR-890 (cooled by AC Infinity AIRCOM T10), Apple TV 4K, HDFury Vertex, B&W 600 series & LM1s in 7.1 config, Harmony Elite, Hubitat Home Automation, Philips Hue lights
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post #6416 of 6508 Old 06-30-2020, 11:11 PM
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The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post
The Denon is quoted at 900W ([email protected]), and your 2 subwoofers are 1200W each ([email protected]).

However - these are not likely to be drawing anywhere near the Amperes would suggest in normal playback.

Power and current ebb and flow. Circuit Breakers have two modes of protection built in - (i) temperature (overload) and magnetic (short circuit protection) - and it is the former that is likely to be the constraint for you. Often - startup or in-rush used to be the problem, but with newer SMPS etc, even this is less of a problem.

If building a new room, I would have more than one circuit - grouped by position in the room. I can't be more specific - electrics in US very different to here in UK.

I’m in Australia so 230v. I’m running only two separate 16amp circuits with mains surge protection. One circuit for x8500/1 emotiva 7ch and 2 rotel amps plus sources and other running 5 svs subwoofers and projector, i have had no issue running everything. Definitely run 2 for piece of mind and you can always add extra amps etc if need be. Depending on what speaker you have connected to your x8500 you wouldn’t be drawing anywhere near 7amps. I also tested a 7012 with no speakers connected and it only draws 125w so a x8500 wouldn’t be much more


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Last edited by johnnyboy632; 06-30-2020 at 11:15 PM.
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post #6417 of 6508 Old 07-01-2020, 04:07 AM
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back with another question
I usually use the two sub outs for my dual subs but I have now added a miniDSP into my system
so I now only use the sub 1 out from the AVR
I changed the settings in the AVR setup to reflect that i now just have one sub and reran Audyssey using the app

now to the point
when I look at the distance menu in the AVR it still shows 2 subs with the second sub greyed out and a distance setting of 2.4 meters
is this normal?
thanks in advance
Andy
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post #6418 of 6508 Old 07-01-2020, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
back with another question
I usually use the two sub outs for my dual subs but I have now added a miniDSP into my system
so I now only use the sub 1 out from the AVR
I changed the settings in the AVR setup to reflect that i now just have one sub and reran Audyssey using the app

now to the point
when I look at the distance menu in the AVR it still shows 2 subs with the second sub greyed out and a distance setting of 2.4 meters
is this normal?
thanks in advance
Andy
Guessing here but have you changed the speaker configuration to 1 sub instead of 2 in the AVR?
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post #6419 of 6508 Old 07-01-2020, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by depechefan View Post
Thanks for the replies regarding my 20 amps question. I will talk to the electrician and get a couple of circuits if possible. I should have mentioned that I’m in Denmark and we use 220v.
I'm in Spain (also 220V) and I have put a C16 (16 A) circuit breaker for just the AV Rack (The 8500, and the players and a Network Switch). An aproxímate calculation gives for 1000W (VA) and 220V a "nominal max" current of 1000 / 220 = 4,5 A. So a 16A or 20 A should give more than enough room, assuming you dont connect much more things to that circuit.

I had the opportunity to ask the electrician for any additional circuits that I would like, when I did the Home Improvement. He said it will cost me more or less the same, just the individual cost of the breakers.

As I had enough room in the breakers panel, I put six more individual circuit breakers, just for the AV and associated equipment:

- Projector
- TV, Subwoofer, reclining sofá motors and additional Plugs.
- PCs, NAS and other equipment (In another room)
- Home Cinema Rack, with the 8500
- Motorized Screen and 8 motorized blinds in the Home Cinema Room
- Air conditioning for the Home Cinema Room and other two more rooms in the house.

AVR: Denon AVC X8500H (Atmos 7.1.6, DTS:X, Auro-3D 13.1)
DPY: Optoma UHZ65 / Lumene Majestic Premium 270C / TV LG C9
Ply:: Dune HD Solo 4K / Dune HD PRO 4K / Oppo 203 / Fire Stick 4K
SPs: Pulsar Audio Ambiente 7 /Ambiente Center /Master M5 /Access AC / B&W CCM 683
Oth: HDFury Vertex2
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post #6420 of 6508 Old 07-01-2020, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by depechefan View Post
Guessing here but have you changed the speaker configuration to 1 sub instead of 2 in the AVR?
I covered that in the OP it looks like you missed it
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