The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread - Page 97 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2881 of 4919 Old 11-08-2018, 07:49 PM
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Hi
I’m currently running the Elite SC-99
And in the market to buy a new AVR by dec. how is the X8500h compared to Marantz SR8012?


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post #2882 of 4919 Old 11-08-2018, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rc-zombies View Post
Hi
I’m currently running the Elite SC-99
And in the market to buy a new AVR by dec. how is the X8500h compared to Marantz SR8012?
Saw your post in the 8012 thread. I have no skin in the game for either but you'll likely get biased responses in both threads. Your needs/wants relative to features and capabilities should help make your decision.

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
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post #2883 of 4919 Old 11-09-2018, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rc-zombies View Post
Hi
I’m currently running the Elite SC-99
And in the market to buy a new AVR by dec. how is the X8500h compared to Marantz SR8012?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Two major differences are
1. The AVR-X8500H supports speaker configurations up to 7.2.6 or 9.2.4. The SR8012 is limited to 7.2.4.
2. The AVR-X8500H will be getting a "midlife kicker" HDMI board upgrade to support 48 Gbits/sec HDMI v2.1. The SR8012 will not.
(48 Gbits/sec will require all new Ultra Speed HDMI cables. If you think 4K 18 Gbit support can be problematic, you ain't seen nuttin yet!)

Some (arguably) minor differences are that
1. The AVR-X8500H supports Denon's proprietary AL32 digital audio processing. The SR8012 does not.
2. The SR8012 contains proprietary Marantz HDAM analog preamp circuits. The AVR-X8500H does not.

And the AVR-X8500H is significantly more expensive.
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post #2884 of 4919 Old 11-09-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
I have to purchase more hdmi cables in order to hook this up. I found that I had a couple bad ones. I will hook this up this weekend and follow up with u. I have not had a chance to stream music or anything from the receiver. But so far so good. The only other issue that I am having is my remote for the 8500 isn't working thru walls. I have my av components in a closet. Should I invest in a hub? Hate having 5 remotes also.
Make sure they are premium certified cables
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post #2885 of 4919 Old 11-09-2018, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rc-zombies View Post
Hi
I’m currently running the Elite SC-99
And in the market to buy a new AVR by dec. how is the X8500h compared to Marantz SR8012?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Saw your post in the 8012 thread. I have no skin in the game for either but you'll likely get biased responses in both threads. Your needs/wants relative to features and capabilities should help make your decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Two major differences are
1. The AVR-X8500H supports speaker configurations up to 7.2.6 or 9.2.4. The SR8012 is limited to 7.2.4.
2. The AVR-X8500H will be getting a "midlife kicker" HDMI board upgrade to support 48 Gbits/sec HDMI v2.1. The SR8012 will not.
(48 Gbits/sec will require all new Ultra Speed HDMI cables. If you think 4K 18 Gbit support can be problematic, you ain't seen nuttin yet!)

Some (arguably) minor differences are that
1. The AVR-X8500H supports Denon's proprietary AL32 digital audio processing. The SR8012 does not.
2. The SR8012 contains proprietary Marantz HDAM analog preamp circuits. The AVR-X8500H does not.

And the AVR-X8500H is significantly more expensive.

Since the same question is posted in multiple threads here is my answer from the SR8012 thread. It doesn't seem a good idea ask the same question in multiple threads; that aside.

Quote:

One item to consider is if you will believe you'll want to use external amplifiers during the life of the product. The SR8012 will be a better choice to drive external amplifiers since it has much more robust RCA outputs due to having buffers on the outputs of the volume control(HDAM's).

Another obvious option is the Denon X6500H (or X6400H). It is very similar to the SR8012, with many identical components, but lacks the HDAM buffers and likely has a somewhat less robust power supply.

The three AVR's; the X6500H, SR8012 and X4500H, are the three obvious candidates to consider in the upper end of Denon/Marantz AVR's. The three units share components, especially power amplifier modules, but have key and important differences in features and capabilities, with price being the complicating factor. Any of the three can be the best fit for a given set of requirements, none are bad or even average choices, unless you need all the channels that the X8500H provides. Owners of each of the units seem to be happy with their purchases.

--------------

Additional emphasis:

Having buffers on the volume control outputs, and thus the RCA outputs, is an important feature if the owner of the AVR will be using external amplifiers from the AVR.
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post #2886 of 4919 Old 11-09-2018, 01:08 PM
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EQ check points?

What are the lowest and highest EQ check points, that can be displayed after running Audyssey?
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When connecting dual subs. Do you run a rca and trigger cable to 1 sub then off of that sub to the other? Or is there left and right sub channel on the 8500. I saw 2 outputs, but not labeled lft or rght. Just wondering if I will need to run 2 100ft cables or just 1 and run the 2nd sub off the other. I havent ordered my subs yet, but wanna run the cables up thru the attic and walls. I am going with dual fv18 rythmik subs. Not sure if I'm doing paper or alum cones.
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post #2888 of 4919 Old 11-09-2018, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
thx


You have Netflix? If so try Altered Carbon, it’s a 10 part series great show that showcases Atmos and DV fantastic .


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loving it. On 3rd ep
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Hi, just got my 8500H setup. What a nice machine. Have been using the Denon 3808 for 11 years, and it’s been perfect.

Now, does anyone know how to get multi-channel audio out of one of the HDMI outputs? I can only get stereo out.

I have my projector connected to Monitor 1, fine.

I have a headphone audio processor that requires multi-channel HDMI input. When I connect that to either Monitor 2, you have to switch the Denon to output audio out of the HDMI, which it calls “TV”, and you get 2 channel.
When I try the Zone 2 HDMI output, that is also stereo!

I can’t believe Denon’s flagship cannot ouput multi-channel audio over HDMI!!
Please tell me I’m missing it and it’s possible.

Thanks!

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post #2890 of 4919 Old 11-09-2018, 11:46 PM
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More Fodder for the 8500

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
You have Netflix? If so try Altered Carbon, it’s a 10 part series great show that showcases Atmos and DV fantastic .


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And it's coming back.

https://deadline.com/2018/07/altered...es-1202434841/
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post #2891 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 01:05 AM
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The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanlee View Post


Awesome news, truly I’m a sci-fi nut and this series ranks as the best I’ve seen in long long time.
From the write up;
“Altered Carbon is set centuries into the future when the human mind has been digitized and the soul itself is transferable from one body to the next. Takeshi Kovacs, a former elite interstellar warrior known as an Envoy who has been imprisoned for 500 years, is downloaded into a future he’d tried to stop.”

My 56 year old brain remembered 250 years imprisoned... need to check wiki

Ahhh, my memory was correct, via wiki
“Takeshi Kovacs (Joel Kinnaman/Will Yun Lee/Byron Mann), a political operative with mercenary skills, is the sole surviving soldier of the Envoys, a rebel group defeated in an uprising against the new world order.[8] 250 years after the Envoys are destroyed, his stack is pulled out of prison by 300-year-old Meth Laurens Bancroft (James Purefoy), one of the wealthiest men in the settled worlds. Bancroft gives him the choice to solve a murder—Bancroft's own—to get a new shot at life.[9]”

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post #2892 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surge2018 View Post
Hi, just got my 8500H setup. What a nice machine. Have been using the Denon 3808 for 11 years, and it’s been perfect.

Now, does anyone know how to get multi-channel audio out of one of the HDMI outputs? I can only get stereo out.

I have my projector connected to Monitor 1, fine.

I have a headphone audio processor that requires multi-channel HDMI input. When I connect that to either Monitor 2, you have to switch the Denon to output audio out of the HDMI, which it calls “TV”, and you get 2 channel.
When I try the Zone 2 HDMI output, that is also stereo!

I can’t believe Denon’s flagship cannot ouput multi-channel audio over HDMI!!
Please tell me I’m missing it and it’s possible.

Thanks!
As noted on p. 196 of the Owner's manual:



Additionally, although the Zone 2 HDMI monitor output can pass multi channel HDMI audio (if the display can accept it), when playing the same multi channel source to both zones, if the main zone display (ie. PJ) only accepts stereo audio, then that is what will pass to the Zone 2 HDMI monitor output. For your use case, try using either a 4x2 or 8x2 HDMI switch/splitter between your sources and the AVR/headphone audio processor.
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post #2893 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
When connecting dual subs. Do you run a rca and trigger cable to 1 sub then off of that sub to the other? Or is there left and right sub channel on the 8500. I saw 2 outputs, but not labeled lft or rght. Just wondering if I will need to run 2 100ft cables or just 1 and run the 2nd sub off the other. I havent ordered my subs yet, but wanna run the cables up thru the attic and walls. I am going with dual fv18 rythmik subs. Not sure if I'm doing paper or alum cones.
There are two sub pre-outs each of which will pass the same signal (ie. no Left/Right); however, connect one pre-out to each sub such that Audyssey Sub EQ HT can set the level/delay of each sub independently.
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post #2894 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surge2018 View Post
Hi, just got my 8500H setup. What a nice machine. Have been using the Denon 3808 for 11 years, and it’s been perfect.

Now, does anyone know how to get multi-channel audio out of one of the HDMI outputs? I can only get stereo out.

I have my projector connected to Monitor 1, fine.

I have a headphone audio processor that requires multi-channel HDMI input. When I connect that to either Monitor 2, you have to switch the Denon to output audio out of the HDMI, which it calls “TV”, and you get 2 channel.
When I try the Zone 2 HDMI output, that is also stereo!

I can’t believe Denon’s flagship cannot ouput multi-channel audio over HDMI!!
Please tell me I’m missing it and it’s possible.

Thanks!
As JDSmoothie said, there are quite a few limitations to take into account. Selecting TV out is definitely a no-no if you want to keep multi channel.

I have solved it that way:

HDMI 1 OUT goes to my JVC RS500 through a HD Fury Vertex that reports a "full Audio" capability back to the AVR, which deals with the limitation induced by connecting a PJ to the AVR. You *might* be able to send the second HDMI Out of the Vertex (it's a 2 in / 2 out) to your HDMI Headphones.

For some reason that I can't remember, I'm using the HD Fury AVR Key on the HDMI Zone 2 out to take the full audio and send it to my HDMI Sony headphones without downgrading the signal to stereo for the other HDMI Outs.

I would ask HD Fury in the Vertex thread to confirm what you need, but I can vouch for both products, I use them all the time and that definitely resolved the issue here.

Alternatively, HD Fury should release in 2019 a couple of new devices (Maestro/Diva) that will definitely handle everything and replace the Vertex/AVR Key combo.

I assume that, like my Sony, your HDMI headphones are HDMI 1.4 and not HDMI 2.0, so your should keep that into account as well because beyond the audio limitations to stereo, you will also get the video limitation to HDMI 1.4 bandwidth (10Gb/s instead of 18Gb/s) if you don't put the headphones on a separate path, with a HD Fury device to keep reporting full audio / full video to the AVR.
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Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders
JVC Macro feature on Vertex/Vertex2/Integral2/Maestro
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post #2895 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surge2018 View Post
Hi, just got my 8500H setup. What a nice machine. Have been using the Denon 3808 for 11 years, and it’s been perfect.

Now, does anyone know how to get multi-channel audio out of one of the HDMI outputs? I can only get stereo out.

I have my projector connected to Monitor 1, fine.

I have a headphone audio processor that requires multi-channel HDMI input. When I connect that to either Monitor 2, you have to switch the Denon to output audio out of the HDMI, which it calls “TV”, and you get 2 channel.
When I try the Zone 2 HDMI output, that is also stereo!

I can’t believe Denon’s flagship cannot ouput multi-channel audio over HDMI!!
Please tell me I’m missing it and it’s possible.

Thanks!
As JDSmoothie said, there are quite a few limitations to take into account. Selecting TV out is definitely a no-no if you want to keep multi channel.

I have solved it that way:

HDMI 1 OUT goes to my JVC RS500 through a HD Fury Vertex that reports a "full Audio" capability back to the AVR, which deals with the limitation induced by connecting a PJ to the AVR. You *might* be able to send the second HDMI Out of the Vertex (it's a 2 in / 2 out) to your HDMI Headphones.

For some reason that I can't remember, I'm using the HD Fury AVR Key on the HDMI Zone 2 out to take the full audio and send it to my HDMI Sony headphones without downgrading the signal to stereo for the other HDMI Outs.

I would ask HD Fury in the Vertex thread to confirm what you need, but I can vouch for both products, I use them all the time and that definitely resolved the issue here.

Alternatively, HD Fury should release in 2019 a couple of new devices (Maestro/Diva) that will definitely handle everything and replace the Vertex/AVR Key combo.

I assume that, like my Sony, your HDMI headphones are HDMI 1.4 and not HDMI 2.0, so your should keep that into account as well because beyond the audio limitations to stereo, you will also get the video limitation to HDMI 1.4 bandwidth (10Gb/s instead of 18Gb/s) if you don't put the headphones on a separate path, with a HD Fury device to keep reporting full audio / full video to the AVR.
What exactly is the HD Fury Vertex use for. What will I benefit from having 1?
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post #2896 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 06:15 AM
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There are two sub pre-outs each of which will pass the same signal (ie. no Left/Right); however, connect one pre-out to each sub such that Audyssey Sub EQ HT can set the level/delay of each sub independently.[/QUOTE]

Basically, Audyssey will make it a left and right effect thru setup?
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post #2897 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
What exactly is the HD Fury Vertex use for. What will I benefit from having 1?
Off topic here, but it's a splitter/scaler with 2 HDMI in and 2 out. Too many uses and applications to develop here. Google is your friend, there is a thread here on AVS where the manufacturer is present and answers all the questions

If you don't know if you need it, you probably don't need one

Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders
JVC Macro feature on Vertex/Vertex2/Integral2/Maestro
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post #2898 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
What exactly is the HD Fury Vertex use for. What will I benefit from having 1?
Off topic here, but it's a splitter/scaler with 2 HDMI in and 2 out. Too many uses and applications to develop here. Google is your friend, there is a thread here on AVS where the manufacturer is present and answers all the questions [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

If you don't know if you need it, you probably don't need one [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
There's some logic. If you never heard of it, you probably don't need it (hey it's really want, not need; the Vertex will let you spoof UHD so you can get Atmos from places like Vudu and Netflix that normally won't let you use it with a 2K set/projector).

Besides, I had never heard of a Margarita at one point. I definitely need one now as it's snowing and not even Thanksgiving yet.... Turn on the Jimmy Buffet.

Some people say...
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Click THEATER (Updated: Nov-12-2019) for pics: Epson 3100 3D Projector, DaLite 92" screen, 11.1.6 (Marantz SR7012 + Yamaha HTR-5960 + Onkyo ESPro) - Dialog Lift - PSB T45/B15/S50/X1T/CS500 Speakers & Def Tech PF-1500 15" sub; 2nd Room (Updated Apr-22-2019): 48" Plasma TV, Carver AL-III, Carver C-5 Pre-Amp, Technics SH-AC500D, Dual Carver TFM-35x Amps (Active Bi-Amp), Klipsch Surrounds ; Sources: PS4, LG UP875 UHD, Nvidia Shield (KODI), ATV4K, Zidoo X9S, LD, GameCube : Props (Updated 11-01-19)
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post #2899 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
What exactly is the HD Fury Vertex use for. What will I benefit from having 1?
Off topic here, but it's a splitter/scaler with 2 HDMI in and 2 out. Too many uses and applications to develop here. Google is your friend, there is a thread here on AVS where the manufacturer is present and answers all the questions [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

If you don't know if you need it, you probably don't need one [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Gothcha!!

Last edited by Stro3579; 11-10-2018 at 03:39 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
Basically, Audyssey will make it a left and right effect thru setup?
Nope. Audyssey EQ's both subs together after their level/delay are independently set.
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post #2901 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
Basically, Audyssey will make it a left and right effect thru setup?
Nope. Audyssey EQ's both subs together after their level/delay are independently set.
Gotcha!!
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More Good Stuff For The 8500

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Awesome news, truly I’m a sci-fi nut and this series ranks as the best I’ve seen in long long time.
From the write up;
“Altered Carbon is set centuries into the future when the human mind has been digitized and the soul itself is transferable from one body to the next. Takeshi Kovacs, a former elite interstellar warrior known as an Envoy who has been imprisoned for 500 years, is downloaded into a future he’d tried to stop.”

My 56 year old brain remembered 250 years imprisoned... need to check wiki

Ahhh, my memory was correct, via wiki
“Takeshi Kovacs (Joel Kinnaman/Will Yun Lee/Byron Mann), a political operative with mercenary skills, is the sole surviving soldier of the Envoys, a rebel group defeated in an uprising against the new world order.[8] 250 years after the Envoys are destroyed, his stack is pulled out of prison by 300-year-old Meth Laurens Bancroft (James Purefoy), one of the wealthiest men in the settled worlds. Bancroft gives him the choice to solve a murder—Bancroft's own—to get a new shot at life.[9]”

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes - I watched it when it first came on Netflix, and I was very impressed with the story and the audio track. I have been a Joel Kinnaman fan since his role in The Killing, but he will not be Takeshi Kovacs this year. I guess I will have to break down and buy the book, because I can't wait for the year two story to reveal itself on Netflix.
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Last edited by Alanlee; 11-10-2018 at 09:03 PM.
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post #2903 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Alanlee View Post



I don't think this a spoiler, but just case someone would, I'll tag it:


Spoiler!
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post #2904 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 03:42 PM
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Nope. Audyssey EQ's both subs together after their level/delay are independently set.
Would you happen to know why I have to turn the volume up to around 70 on the 8500h in order to get feeling from my speakers? Is there a setting that I dont have on or need to change. I dont like having to turn the volume up that far to get feeling from the speakers.
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post #2905 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
Would you happen to know why I have to turn the volume up to around 70 on the 8500h in order to get feeling from my speakers? Is there a setting that I dont have on or need to change. I dont like having to turn the volume up that far to get feeling from the speakers.
Instead of turning up the volume, simply boost both subs by 3 or 6db. Or possibly do another calibration and pay attention to the levels of both subs so that they are equal.
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post #2906 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
Would you happen to know why I have to turn the volume up to around 70 on the 8500h in order to get feeling from my speakers? Is there a setting that I dont have on or need to change. I dont like having to turn the volume up that far to get feeling from the speakers.
If you're used to a receiver that had a volume control that was linear that might explain the difference as volume adjustments became logarithmic some time ago.

If I set my Denon 4520 to the 0-99 scale then 70 would be about right for some impact Otherwise my listening runs around -20 to -12.5 depending on whether its TV sound or a movie/music from my 203.

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post #2907 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
Would you happen to know why I have to turn the volume up to around 70 on the 8500h in order to get feeling from my speakers? Is there a setting that I dont have on or need to change. I dont like having to turn the volume up that far to get feeling from the speakers.
Instead of turning up the volume, simply boost both subs by 3 or 6db. Or possibly do another calibration and pay attention to the levels of both subs so that they are equal.
no subs yet. Just seems to be 0-60 of dead volume. Speakers wake up after.
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post #2908 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 05:01 PM
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Awesome news, truly I’m a sci-fi nut and this series ranks as the best I’ve seen in long long time.
From the write up;
“Altered Carbon is set centuries into the future when the human mind has been digitized and the soul itself is transferable from one body to the next. Takeshi Kovacs, a former elite interstellar warrior known as an Envoy who has been imprisoned for 500
I like Sci-Fi, will have to give it a whirl
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post #2909 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
no subs yet. Just seems to be 0-60 of dead volume. Speakers wake up after.
Must or might be your speakers. Would suggest that you use the 8500H with at least two subs.
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post #2910 of 4919 Old 11-10-2018, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
no subs yet. Just seems to be 0-60 of dead volume. Speakers wake up after.
Must or might be your speakers. Would suggest that you use the 8500H with at least two subs.
ordering subs this weekend.
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