The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread - Page 98 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2911 of 4787 Old 11-10-2018, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post
If you're used to a receiver that had a volume control that was linear that might explain the difference as volume adjustments became logarithmic some time ago.

If I set my Denon 4520 to the 0-99 scale then 70 would be about right for some impact Otherwise my listening runs around -20 to -12.5 depending on whether its TV sound or a movie/music from my 203.
Very few receivers or pre-amps, if any, ever used linear volume knobs. I accidentally put one in my 4th year engineering project (I built an analog based audio scrambler/descrambler system that could be used over CB radio for private conversations that sounded like sideband to the ear but wasn't). It took forever to change the volume even small amounts. ALL volume pots are typically logarithmic because our hearing is logarithmic. Not all stereos used "-dB to 0dB" scales, however (much more of a recent thing and D&M AVRs give you a choice; other brands like Yamaha do not). Most preamps or receivers used 0-10 or 0-100 back in the day or even an unmarked dial (my Carver preamp has no markings other than a lit arrow to see it's "clock" position).

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post #2912 of 4787 Old 11-10-2018, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Very few receivers or pre-amps, if any, ever used linear volume knobs. I accidentally put one in my 4th year engineering project (I built an analog based audio scrambler/descrambler system that could be used over CB radio for private conversations that sounded like sideband to the ear but wasn't). It took forever to change the volume even small amounts. ALL volume pots are typically logarithmic because our hearing is logarithmic. Not all stereos used "-dB to 0dB" scales, however (much more of a recent thing and D&M AVRs give you a choice; other brands like Yamaha do not). Most preamps or receivers used 0-10 or 0-100 back in the day or even an unmarked dial (my Carver preamp has no markings other than a lit arrow to see it's "clock" position).

Recent Onkyo's also offer both "relative" and "absolute" volume scale choices.

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post #2913 of 4787 Old 11-10-2018, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Very few receivers or pre-amps, if any, ever used linear volume knobs. I accidentally put one in my 4th year engineering project (I built an analog based audio scrambler/descrambler system that could be used over CB radio for private conversations that sounded like sideband to the ear but wasn't). It took forever to change the volume even small amounts. ALL volume pots are typically logarithmic because our hearing is logarithmic. Not all stereos used "-dB to 0dB" scales, however (much more of a recent thing and D&M AVRs give you a choice; other brands like Yamaha do not). Most preamps or receivers used 0-10 or 0-100 back in the day or even an unmarked dial (my Carver preamp has no markings other than a lit arrow to see it's "clock" position).
Not sure how far you go back. I can remember when it took forever to increase/decrease volume on stereo units.
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post #2914 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post
Very few receivers or pre-amps, if any, ever used linear volume knobs. I accidentally put one in my 4th year engineering project (I built an analog based audio scrambler/descrambler system that could be used over CB radio for private conversations that sounded like sideband to the ear but wasn't). It took forever to change the volume even small amounts. ALL volume pots are typically logarithmic because our hearing is logarithmic. Not all stereos used "-dB to 0dB" scales, however (much more of a recent thing and D&M AVRs give you a choice; other brands like Yamaha do not). Most preamps or receivers used 0-10 or 0-100 back in the day or even an unmarked dial (my Carver preamp has no markings other than a lit arrow to see it's "clock" position).
Yamaha has introduced dual volume scale options (dB and 0-97) with the release of their 2018 Aventage models this past summer.

Last edited by jdsmoothie; 11-11-2018 at 01:56 AM.
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post #2915 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
Would you happen to know why I have to turn the volume up to around 70 on the 8500h in order to get feeling from my speakers? Is there a setting that I dont have on or need to change. I dont like having to turn the volume up that far to get feeling from the speakers.
As already discussed, unlike receivers from many years ago where setting the volume to 2 (of 10) was very loud, you'll need to raise the volume on the X8500H to at least 50/-30dB for any real sound output with most owners likely listening at [50-70] or [-30dB to -10dB] depending on which scale you are using.
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post #2916 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 03:24 AM
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The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread

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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
As already discussed, unlike receivers from many years ago where setting the volume to 2 (of 10) was very loud, you'll need to raise the volume on the X8500H to at least 50/-30dB for any real sound output with most owners likely listening at [50-70] or [-30dB to -10dB] depending on which scale you are using.


Ahhh memories...so we’re discussing dB scale vs linear scale ....since I’m 56 I did use a slide rule in 1976 as I had 9th grade trig before calculators were out.
Who else here has actually used a slide rule?


Hopefully we don’t get into the psychoacoustics of our ears hearing perception

Or Volume control vs. attenuation control vs reference level vs pink noise vs ....


Happy Sunday


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post #2917 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Ahhh memories...so we’re discussing dB scale vs linear scale ....since I’m 56 I did use a slide rule in 1976 as I had 9th grade trig before calculators were out.
Who else here has actually used a slide rule?
I did for just 1 year and then got my first TI calculator for Christmas in 1975. Now I just ask ALEXA for the answer.

Special shout out to all of my fellow Veterans ……. HAPPY VETERAN's DAY!!!!
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post #2918 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
Would you happen to know why I have to turn the volume up to around 70 on the 8500h in order to get feeling from my speakers? Is there a setting that I dont have on or need to change. I dont like having to turn the volume up that far to get feeling from the speakers.
As already discussed, unlike receivers from many years ago where setting the volume to 2 (of 10) was very loud, you'll need to raise the volume on the X8500H to at least 50/-30dB for any real sound output with most owners likely listening at [50-70] or [-30dB to -10dB] depending on which scale you are using.
65-70 seems to be the sweet spot. If I went with a pre amp(200watts a channel), would it still be the same issue?
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post #2919 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
I did for just 1 year and then got my first TI calculator for Christmas in 1975. Now I just ask ALEXA for the answer.

Special shout out to all of my fellow Veterans ……. HAPPY VETERAN's DAY!!!!
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post #2920 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 07:02 AM
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Yesterday I purchased the 8500. I was wondering if using an external am such as a rotel or outlaw change the sound?
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post #2921 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
65-70 seems to be the sweet spot. If I went with a pre amp(200watts a channel), would it still be the same issue?
You mean amp, and yes, it would still be the same.
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post #2922 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
65-70 seems to be the sweet spot. If I went with a pre amp(200watts a channel), would it still be the same issue?
You mean amp, and yes, it would still be the same.
guess I have to eventually get a amp then. It drives me bonkers having to turn volume up to 65-70ish.
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post #2923 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
I did for just 1 year and then got my first TI calculator for Christmas in 1975. Now I just ask ALEXA for the answer.

I have to admit to using a slide rule for more than a few years!


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With Denon's HEOS S, whats the point of even having an AVR like the 8500? Seems like.

With Denon's HEOS S, whats the point of even having an AVR like the 8500? Seems like they both offer the same functionality sort of, and appear to be self-cannibalizing each other.
Am I wrong?
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post #2925 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 08:41 AM
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"Heos S" ? No such thing as far as I'm aware...
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With Denon's HEOS S, whats the point of even having an AVR like the 8500? Seems like they both offer the same functionality sort of, and appear to be self-cannibalizing each other.
Am I wrong?
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post #2926 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 09:20 AM
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Ok, the bottom of the Denon AVR range. Still not sure I get your point?

They have a range of AVR's at a range of prices and they all now have Heos onboard. The S products are hardly in the same class as the X ones though.
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I did for just 1 year and then got my first TI calculator for Christmas in 1975. Now I just ask ALEXA for the answer.

Special shout out to all of my fellow Veterans ……. HAPPY VETERAN's DAY!!!!
Once the TI-35 hit that was the end of our using the sliderule. Remember the TI's with the memory modules You could not use them for tests because you could do rudimentary programming and save answers. About 1977 or 1978.

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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Ahhh memories...so we’re discussing dB scale vs linear scale ....since I’m 56 I did use a slide rule in 1976 as I had 9th grade trig before calculators were out.
Who else here has actually used a slide rule?
Spoiler!

Happy Sunday

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I finally tossed out my slide rule ages ago. It hadn't been used in decades

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I did for just 1 year and then got my first TI calculator for Christmas in 1975. Now I just ask ALEXA for the answer.

Special shout out to all of my fellow Veterans ……. HAPPY VETERAN's DAY!!!!
I have an HP11C which mostly helps me balance my checkbook

A salute to you JD and all my fellow veterans, thank you for serving, HAPPY VETERAN's DAY.

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Ahhh memories...so we’re discussing dB scale vs linear scale ....since I’m 56 I did use a slide rule in 1976 as I had 9th grade trig before calculators were out.
Who else here has actually used a slide rule?
I still have my Post Versatrig 1450 (and case and instruction book) I used in college in the '60's. I used to know every function on it. Now (without using the book), I can only multiply/divide. :-D

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Denon AVR-X8500H as a pre-pro question

Yesterday I purchased the 8500. I was wondering if using an external am such as a rotel or outlaw change the sound?
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post #2932 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 12:28 PM
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guess I have to eventually get a amp then. It drives me bonkers having to turn volume up to 65-70ish.
Adding an external amp will make no difference whatsoever in the value of the volume level that is appropriate for your room. That's one of the results of doing a calibration: you'll always get the same sound level at the same volume setting.

Don't think of it as turning it up to 70. Rather, you're turning it down from 80.

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Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
It drives me bonkers having to turn volume up to 65-70ish.
Although I understand why, it bothered me initially as well. It makes no sense to crank and crank and crank from "0" just to get to a listenable volume level

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Adding an external amp will make no difference whatsoever in the value of the volume level that is appropriate for your room. That's one of the results of doing a calibration: you'll always get the same sound level at the same volume setting.

Don't think of it as turning it up to 70. Rather, you're turning it down from 80.
And in actual usage/practice, there typically is not much "turning" at all as the last volume level is/can be saved.
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I used to know every function on it.
Me too...mostly!

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Now (without using the book), I can only multiply/divide. :-D
Me too!

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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
I did for just 1 year and then got my first TI calculator for Christmas in 1975. Now I just ask ALEXA for the answer.

Special shout out to all of my fellow Veterans ……. HAPPY VETERAN's DAY!!!!
Right back at ya jd!

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i just set the start up volume to 55 and use it from there.
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post #2937 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 02:47 PM
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The *OFFICIAL* Denon AVR-X8500H 13.2ch Flagship AVR Thread

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Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
i just set the start up volume to 55 and use it from there.
Suggest you use the dB volume option.

I have mine set at the dB volume option and default on is -35db, then I turn it up from there. I’ve also got max volume limited to 0db, there’s no need to go over that at all in a properly setup system for normal usage, heck even demos .


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After two months and a half I finally installed my top rear speakers to go along with my top middle. I was shocked to discover that the 8500 doesn’t support a 5.1.4 configuration with Top middle and top rear. I have to tell it that it is too front and top rear. Given the price of the 8500 I’m shocked it doesn’t support this official Dolby speaker layout. Please tell me the 8500 treats Top Front as as Top Middle in a 5.1.4 config.

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post #2939 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
i just set the start up volume to 55 and use it from there.
Suggest you use the dB volume option.

I have mine set at the dB volume option and default on is -35db, then I turn it up from there. I’ve also got max volume limited to 0db, there’s no need to go over that at all in a properly setup system for normal usage, heck even demos .


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How did you set it up that way?
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post #2940 of 4787 Old 11-11-2018, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
How did you set it up that way?


You’ve got the user manual right?
Read page 188



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