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post #31 of 52 Old 02-07-2018, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
You do realize this is an argument you're only having with yourself right because I researched and almost bought a similar Crown amp myself last year? Do you act like this over on XDA as well? Seems familiar. Over priced is a relative term. I bought 5 channels of 135 Watts per in a class AB amp for $400. My speakers are a true 8 Ohm load and they are fairly sensitive at 90dB w/1 Watt at 1 meter and I don't listen to them in an indoor space the size of a baseball field. This describes the overwhelming majority of home audio hobbyists by the way for whom consumer amps are relatively cheap and more than adequate but I understand speakers aren't pure resistors and pro amps serve a purpose driving less sensitive low impedance loads. Sounds like you're on your third "after work cocktail" or your seventh "I'm retired so cocktail time starts early" so I'll let you get back to either one. SMHL.
Really?...so you are saying what exactly?...that consumer Amps are cheaper than pro amps?

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post #32 of 52 Old 02-07-2018, 05:24 PM
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some speakers need better amps than others...with my old klipsch speakers the more amp power I gave them the worse they sounded. my focals like something better than avr power, but cant take uber amps...maybe 300 watts. Im perfectly happy with my nad amps, but by no means are they the best or worst. only amps I can say I can hear everytime is simaudio but they pricey....if you get a 400 crown amp that works for ya, congrats. one problem solved.

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post #33 of 52 Old 02-07-2018, 05:33 PM
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some speakers need better amps than others...with my old klipsch speakers the more amp power I gave them the worse they sounded. my focals like something better than avr power, but cant take uber amps...maybe 300 watts. Im perfectly happy with my nad amps, but by no means are they the best or worst. only amps I can say I can hear everytime is simaudio but they pricey....if you get a 400 crown amp that works for ya, congrats. one problem solved.
No offense but your post doesn't make a lick of scence.Speakers will use the power they need period.Amps should not alter the sound regardless if the speakers are hooked to a 50 watt per channel or 1000 watt per channel amp.Only distortion or clipping will happen if over driven without enough power.

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post #34 of 52 Old 02-07-2018, 05:39 PM
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Really?...so you are saying what exactly?...that consumer Amps are cheaper than pro amps?

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I'm saying EXACTLY what I write. Soooo no! This isn't my first day on the internet bro and I don't play any reindeer games just like I don't over on XDA so engaging in an argument totally of your own making just so you can save face ain't in my day planner. You really should just stop at this point dude because you're looking really bad and I'm laughing waaay too hard right now for any of this this back and forth to be helping you trust me. This is what happens when a man and his amp don't keep things strictly platonic.

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post #35 of 52 Old 02-07-2018, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post
No offense but your post doesn't make a lick of scence.Speakers will use the power they need period.Amps should not alter the sound regardless if the speakers are hooked to a 50 watt per channel or 1000 watt per channel amp.Only distortion or clipping will happen if over driven without enough power.

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well nothing more to say. you are right.

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post #36 of 52 Old 02-07-2018, 05:43 PM
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I'm saying EXACTLY what I write. Soooo no! This isn't my first day on the internet bro and I don't play any reindeer games just like I don't over on XDA so engaging in an argument totally of your own making just so you can save face ain't in my day planner. You really should just stop at this point dude because you're looking really bad and I'm laughing waaay too hard right now for any of this this back and forth to be helping you trust me. This is what happens when a man and his amp don't keep things strictly platonic.
I haven't been on XDA for quite a while...must have me confused...too many shots maybe?...Good job dodging the question there though.

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post #37 of 52 Old 02-07-2018, 05:54 PM
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I haven't been on XDA for quite a while...must have me confused...too many shots maybe?...Good job dodging the question there though.

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It's in your Tapatalk signature list and I haven't been there in a while either. I'm a recovering alcoholic(8 years sober now so
just water or iced tea for me thanks .) Your man in the mirror questions have no relation to my posts so no answer seems best.

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post #38 of 52 Old 02-07-2018, 05:58 PM
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It's in your Tapatalk signature list and I haven't been there in a while either. I'm a recovering alcoholic(8 years sober now so
just water or iced tea for me thanks .) Your questions have no relation to my posts so no answer seems best.


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Well congrats on the 8 years sobriety...your drinking comment towards me makes more sense now...and fair enough not to anwser.have a good night.1

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post #39 of 52 Old 02-07-2018, 06:18 PM
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Well congrats on the 8 years sobriety...your drinking comment towards me makes more sense now...and fair enough not to anwser.have a good night.1

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Thanks, and I assumed you've been drinking not because I once did but because of how obtuse your posts towards me have been. Figured assuming mild inebriation was better than the alternative. Electronics are simply a tool for a job not frats or football teams. My recommending one over the other at any particular time doesn't mean I love the one and hate the other. Both have their place and application and I'm perfectly fine with the OP's choice of a Crown amp and that's my answer. You have a good night as well Josh.

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post #40 of 52 Old 02-07-2018, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Thanks, and I assumed you've been drinking not because I once did but because of how obtuse your posts towards me have been. Figured assuming mild inebriation was better than the alternative. Electronics are simply a tool for a job not frats or football teams. My recommending one over the other at any particular time doesn't mean I love the one and hate the other. Both have their place and application and I'm perfectly fine with the OP's choice of a Crown amp and that's my answer. You have a good night as well Josh.
Welcome...and ok fair enough...my posts weren't meant to be obtuse...just stating fact and asking questions based on the posted comments.take care.

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post #41 of 52 Old 02-07-2018, 07:01 PM
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Welcome...and ok fair enough...my posts weren't meant to be obtuse...just stating fact and asking questions based on the posted comments.take care.

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No, you weren't! If you were we would have had a constructive dialogue instead of whatever the heck that was because I like good conversations between reasonable people like the one I had earlier in thread with MKtheater and facts can be and are manipulated to serve an agenda wich is why impartiality is key to obtaining them. If my class AB amp got switched out tomorrow for a Crown amp I'd be surprised someone got past my locked door and my shotgun but I wouldn't be sobbing into my pillow either because I spent over a year researching them and others before buying what I have. I did it for a multitude of reasons but lack of facts wasn't one of them. You take care as well.

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post #42 of 52 Old 02-08-2018, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Yeah, I misspoke using reference in regards to movie mastering but 32 Watts does get him to those peaks as well when you factor in the stereo pair. Disregarding that Brent Butterworth shoots for 102dB as a good baseline for 2 channel listening. Point taken though and thanks for the correction.

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Correct but while you adjusted from 6dB for the anechoic to in room loss for doubling distance you didn't factor in the 3dB each speaker gains in sensitivity placed in room as SVS specs their speaker's sensitivity rating in full space. That plus the added amp power to the second speaker pretty much negates the loss at that distance which I agree is normal.







He's listening at -5dB relative scale and crossing over the low frequencies to a sub although the seating distance and room size are critical as well since he didn't mention anything about either I'm assuming both are average but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time or the last time I was.

Using an online SPL calculator at 10 feet he can hit 106dB with both mains within 2 to 4 feet of a boundary. Again I'm assuming the average as we don't know the OP's layout dimensions.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

If he wants to get the Crown amp he should as buyer's remorse isn't any fun but either should do the job as even at 64 Watts he still has over 3dB of headroom with the Emotiva. Power is cheap though and he does maximize that with the pro Crown amps.
Yes I did account for room loss, you normally lose 6 dB per doubling of distance(outside) so instead of 9 dB at 3m I said 6 dB. Again all this was based on reference which has nothing to due with stereo. Reference is 105 dB peaks at the seats per speaker. Yes, every room varies. I happen to prefer Outlaw over my pro amps for my speakers but my speakers are much higher sensitive. To be honest there is no logical reason other than my mind because my ears really can't tell.


Sorry OP, $400 stereo amp? How much power are those speakers rated for?

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post #43 of 52 Old 02-08-2018, 09:10 AM
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I really don't think the amp is going to make a difference here anyways. As stated before a speaker will use the power needed and sound bad when over driven. It sounds like your setup is off rather than type of amp. It should blend from your speakers to your subs at the crossover. The OP mentioned it sound weaker from subs to mains but he is also running them hotter than the mains. The problem we run into with awesome subs is that it takes some good mains to keep up in the mid bass. Have you tried changing the crossover higher so the mains don't have to play the mid bass, like at 120hz or so. I used to have huge mains with double 15s crossed over to subs at 80hz and the mid bass was to die for. I now run dual 10s crossed over to subs at 120hz and the mid bass is still to die 4. If I let those 10s try to play the mid bass of those subs or 15s it would sound thin as well.
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post #44 of 52 Old 02-08-2018, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I really don't think the amp is going to make a difference here anyways. As stated before a speaker will use the power needed and sound bad when over driven. It sounds like your setup is off rather than type of amp. It should blend from your speakers to your subs at the crossover. The OP mentioned it sound weaker from subs to mains but he is also running them hotter than the mains. The problem we run into with awesome subs is that it takes some good mains to keep up in the mid bass. Have you tried changing the crossover higher so the mains don't have to play the mid bass, like at 120hz or so. I used to have huge mains with double 15s crossed over to subs at 80hz and the mid bass was to die for. I now run dual 10s crossed over to subs at 120hz and the mid bass is still to die 4. If I let those 10s try to play the mid bass of those subs or 15s it would sound thin as well.
I'm aware, hence the upgrade to the ultra towers. I have let the subs play the midrange it certainly sounds better. The problem is, I run the subs very hot and at that high of a frequency the subs just run out of juice. The amp gets warm, driver gets warm and after destroying 3 subs I'd rather not cross them at 120hz. They don't seem to sweat at my current crossover but anything higher than 100hz and that burned voice coil smell rears its ugly head. If the new amp makes no difference there's no problem i can just return it.
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post #45 of 52 Old 02-08-2018, 02:26 PM
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Well, any power over the rated specs is wasted anyways. You want clean RMS power that your speakers can handle at the impedances needed. Usually towers are better at mid bass because compared to their bookshelves counterparts there is usually another driver. Some towers just play lower than their bookshelf models.
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post #46 of 52 Old 02-08-2018, 06:51 PM
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SVS states 20-300 watts for recommended power range for the Ultra Towers.

If you haven't checked them out, they have two 8" woofers per speaker, two 6.5" midranges per speaker. They mention a dual crossover from woofer to midrange which I imagine reflects the dual drivers for each. They say it has a 3.5 way crossover for the whole speaker. I've never heard of one described that way, but I'm pretty sure that all those passive crossovers suck up a bit of power.

There's also two sets of speaker posts per speaker indicating they can be bi-amped.

Which is pretty cool, cuz if the OP wants more he can buy another amp and bi-amp the speakers.

"EXCESS" power isn't being wasted either. The amp delivers what you need. When it isn't needed, the power isn't there evaporating or whatever you might think it's doing. Class D delivers Amperes cheap when you need them at a bargain price to begin with. Win win.

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post #47 of 52 Old 02-08-2018, 10:07 PM
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Wasted as in not being used. You can hook up a 1000 watt amp to a speaker that can handle 300 watts but use 20 watts at desired levels. That means you need 20 watts and the rest is wasted. Now having a little headroom is a good idea but 100 watts would do easily for that situation.

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post #48 of 52 Old 02-08-2018, 11:25 PM
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Wasted as in not being used. You can hook up a 1000 watt amp to a speaker that can handle 300 watts but use 20 watts at desired levels. That means you need 20 watts and the rest is wasted. Now having a little headroom is a good idea but 100 watts would do easily for that situation.
^^ This.

He had me right up until bi amp. Just buy an amp is sufficient enough or.... instead buy higher sensitivity speakers, sit closer to your front soundstage, invest in some passive room treatments, take the time to listen to your speakers placed at different positions and angles, invest in a quality ID sub from someone like PSA, HSU , Rythmik, SVS, etc... , set your mains up on the rooms longest wall instead of the shortest, make sure all of your floor speakers have their tweeters inline with your ear level, listen to the highest quality formats you can find and about 100 other things before passive bi amping.

I like my Outlaw 5000 too and I get the same well informed and nice soft spoken person on the phone every time I have called their technical support number with my silly questions.

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post #49 of 52 Old 02-09-2018, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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For the people interested in a follow up... I actually purchased both the basX-A300 and the XLS 1502 so I could do some A/B testing myself. First impressions is that both amps offer a sound quality improvement over the A1060. Was it a jaw dropping improvement? No,but is it worth the extra investment? Yes. The woofers in the bookshelves have fully come alive. Bass sounds "full" and meshes well with my subs instead of sounding thin(I assume this is due to the power difference at lower impedances). As for SPL testing I only saw a ~2db increase across all the songs I listen to but, the difference (to me) is more substantial to the overall enjoy ability of the music than the SPL indicates.

As for which amp i prefer so far, I'm liking the basX-A300 more. It's a better looking amp and to me and was very simple plug and play compared to the XLS 1502 (which I had to try and gain match). With the XLS 1502 hooked up both speakers emitted a buzz...that was audible from the MLP when nothing was playing. (The emotiva was only audible with my ear pressed up against the speaker). The 1502 itself was also whining (similar to coil whine) but that was not audible from the MLP (small disclaimer though...my house is old and i need to get a lot of these outlets changed soon, so i'll give the crown the benefit of the doubt). I of course could not get the fan on either amp to turn on but the 1502 ran noticeably cooler than the A300.

In regards to sound quality after both were setup I could not notice a single difference. I'm going to keep both for the 30 days I'm allowed and test them on the Ultra towers where the power difference may differentiate the two amp some more (although now I seriously don't think I need to push 300w). As it stands I'd be a happy camper keeping the A300.
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post #50 of 52 Old 04-08-2019, 08:52 AM
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For the people interested in a follow up... I actually purchased both the basX-A300 and the XLS 1502 so I could do some A/B testing myself. First impressions is that both amps offer a sound quality improvement over the A1060. Was it a jaw dropping improvement? No,but is it worth the extra investment? Yes. The woofers in the bookshelves have fully come alive. Bass sounds "full" and meshes well with my subs instead of sounding thin(I assume this is due to the power difference at lower impedances). As for SPL testing I only saw a ~2db increase across all the songs I listen to but, the difference (to me) is more substantial to the overall enjoy ability of the music than the SPL indicates.

As for which amp i prefer so far, I'm liking the basX-A300 more. It's a better looking amp and to me and was very simple plug and play compared to the XLS 1502 (which I had to try and gain match). With the XLS 1502 hooked up both speakers emitted a buzz...that was audible from the MLP when nothing was playing. (The emotiva was only audible with my ear pressed up against the speaker). The 1502 itself was also whining (similar to coil whine) but that was not audible from the MLP (small disclaimer though...my house is old and i need to get a lot of these outlets changed soon, so i'll give the crown the benefit of the doubt). I of course could not get the fan on either amp to turn on but the 1502 ran noticeably cooler than the A300.

In regards to sound quality after both were setup I could not notice a single difference. I'm going to keep both for the 30 days I'm allowed and test them on the Ultra towers where the power difference may differentiate the two amp some more (although now I seriously don't think I need to push 300w). As it stands I'd be a happy camper keeping the A300.
Still rocking the A300?
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post #51 of 52 Old 04-08-2019, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Still rocking the A300?
A300 is powering my surrounds (which are the ultra bookshelves) I'm now using the XPA-3 for my front stage. Very nice improvement for dynamics in movies. I listen fairly loud!
XPA-3 was also a noticeable improvement over the A-300 but again only at the speaker limits. I gained another 3dB.

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post #52 of 52 Old 04-08-2019, 09:31 AM
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A300 is powering my surrounds (which are the ultra bookshelves) I'm now using the XPA-3 for my front stage. Very nice improvement for dynamics in movies. I listen fairly loud!
XPA-3 was also a noticeable improvement over the A-300 but again only at the speaker limits. I gained another 3dB.
So everything's fine, great I remember that few years ago people were concerned about reliability with Emotiva amps but nowadays I don't see complaints so it seems that Emotiva amps are now solid affordable choices to add extra power for AVRs.
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