"Official" Onkyo TX-RZ 620/720/820 Owners Thread - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 225Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #511 of 688 Old 11-04-2018, 07:04 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gene4ht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 3,979
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1984 Post(s)
Liked: 2681
Quote:
Originally Posted by th8ter View Post
I’m looking at an 820 to replace my aging 905. Wanted to ask y’all that have an 820 how good is the AccuEQ system works as I have never used anything except for Audyssey in the past.
Your question has been asked repeatedly in all of the Onkyo threads. Bottom line...AccuEQ does a fine job and you won't miss Audyssey.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56615498

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56923928

Quote:
Originally Posted by th8ter View Post
Another question has Onyko gotten their HDMI board issues corrected once and for all? Thank you
AFAIK, there has been zero reports of HDMI board failures in the RZ series of AVR's.

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203

Last edited by gene4ht; 11-04-2018 at 07:12 AM. Reason: typo
gene4ht is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #512 of 688 Old 11-04-2018, 07:12 AM
Senior Member
 
th8ter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Your question has been asked repeatedly in all of the Onkyo threads. Bottom line...AccuEQ does a fine job and you won't miss Audyssey.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56615498


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56923928


AFAIK, there has been zero reports of HDMI board failures in the RZ series of AVR's.
Thank you!
th8ter is offline  
post #513 of 688 Old 11-04-2018, 11:48 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
AFAIK, there has been zero reports of HDMI board failures in the RZ series of AVR's.
My TX-RZ810 has had nothing but HDMI handshake issues since purchasing almost a year ago. No amount of swapping HDMI cables has resolved the issue.
iSayBoourns is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #514 of 688 Old 11-04-2018, 01:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gene4ht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 3,979
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1984 Post(s)
Liked: 2681
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSayBoourns View Post
My TX-RZ810 has had nothing but HDMI handshake issues since purchasing almost a year ago. No amount of swapping HDMI cables has resolved the issue.
The first I've heard of this issue with the RZ series. I assume you've contacted Onkyo support...curious...what was their response?

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
gene4ht is online now  
post #515 of 688 Old 11-04-2018, 01:40 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSayBoourns View Post
My TX-RZ810 has had nothing but HDMI handshake issues since purchasing almost a year ago. No amount of swapping HDMI cables has resolved the issue.
The first I've heard of this issue with the RZ series. I assume you've contacted Onkyo support...curious...what was their response?
I posted on their forums about the issue. They deleted my posts and even my account after pointing out it was not a cable issue.

I’ve tweeted their support and gotten zero response.

I suppose I will have to call their RZ owners line. But they will probably put blame on the HDMI cables.

It’s been a very frustrating thing. It’s always a gamble trying to watch 4K hdr content or play 4K hdr content (PS4 pro) because I never know when it’s goinng to drop out, or how often it’ll drop out.
iSayBoourns is offline  
post #516 of 688 Old 11-06-2018, 01:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
nodoubt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Liked: 260
my hdmi went out several weeks ago.
they fixed it, but its still acting buggy
nodoubt is offline  
post #517 of 688 Old 11-07-2018, 10:37 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodoubt View Post
my hdmi went out several weeks ago.
they fixed it, but its still acting buggy
That doesn’t give me any confidence at all that if I sent my receiver off for repair it’ll actually solve the handshake issue.
iSayBoourns is offline  
post #518 of 688 Old 11-07-2018, 05:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
nodoubt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Liked: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSayBoourns View Post
That doesn’t give me any confidence at all that if I sent my receiver off for repair it’ll actually solve the handshake issue.
yeah, i love the unit, but wish i could have a better feeling about it.
it switches to phono by itsself at times, makes a popping noise when switching inputs, makes popping noises by itsself, and other night, the different surround modes all sounded the same......coming out of all the speakers instead of just the center , etc.....
go figure...
nodoubt is offline  
post #519 of 688 Old 11-07-2018, 06:05 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
TX-RX 620 Turner Issue

My first post and I admit that I'm frustrated with this unit already after 2 weeks. First it fails the setup process saying there's too much background noise but it's as quite as can be. So everything seemed fine until my wife was using the remote which somehow needed resetting yesterday and then tonight before leaving for dinner I couldn't get any sound through the speakers when the tuner was picked although through the CBL/SAT and CD worked just fine even though there seems to be a very wide difference in volume levels for each. Why the tuner wouldn't work seems strange but we also seem to lose the ability to pull in our strong stations and both auto/manual tuning didn't work. I do have Zone 2 hooked to a multi room switch that was working but that too seems to be not working. I've never had a unit in all my 64 years so confusing to use and I build computer systems for observatory imaging systems.

Any suggestions would be welcomed. I really want to like this system but so far it seems like too much work.

Steve
sreilly24590 is offline  
post #520 of 688 Old 11-07-2018, 06:58 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Is it normal for the center channel level to need a +5db just to sound clearer(vocals) and more balanced between the L and R.

L/R are +0.5db (as set by AccuEQ)
Surrounds are also +0.5db
Center was initially also +0.5 but had to increase to +5.0.

My Speakers are
L/R: Polk RTIA5
Surround: RTIA3
Center: CSiA6

MLP is around 7 1/2 - 8 feet from the Center. I wouldn’t have imagined needing +5.0 for not really a long distance.

Thanks
iSayBoourns is offline  
post #521 of 688 Old 11-08-2018, 07:20 AM
Member
 
kingrukus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just picked up an 820 for $459.99 on woot.com

Now I am reading about HDMI failures on these receivers. Is it a certainty that I will suffer these same issues?

I bought a TX-NR676 earlier this year without any issues thus far. And I have owned an HT-RC260 for 8 years with absolutely no issues.
kingrukus is offline  
post #522 of 688 Old 11-15-2018, 04:27 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hi, I hope someone can shed some light on onky recievers for me. I own the 686 it is hooked up to my Xbox one X and I am using the LG B7.
When I watch Dolby vision content the AV states that it is running full 4k Ycbr422 24 bit which is only 8 bit colour, I was under the impression that Dolby vision was 10 or 12 bit, is it possible the AV reciever is just displaying the wrong details? In the manual it says thay the 686 only outputs ycbr422 at 12bit,can anyone please help
Shaunyc is offline  
post #523 of 688 Old 11-15-2018, 05:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 8,041
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2721 Post(s)
Liked: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSayBoourns View Post
Is it normal for the center channel level to need a +5db just to sound clearer(vocals) and more balanced between the L and R.

L/R are +0.5db (as set by AccuEQ)
Surrounds are also +0.5db
Center was initially also +0.5 but had to increase to +5.0.

My Speakers are
L/R: Polk RTIA5
Surround: RTIA3
Center: CSiA6

MLP is around 7 1/2 - 8 feet from the Center. I wouldn’t have imagined needing +5.0 for not really a long distance.

Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingrukus View Post
Just picked up an 820 for $459.99 on woot.com

Now I am reading about HDMI failures on these receivers. Is it a certainty that I will suffer these same issues?

I bought a TX-NR676 earlier this year without any issues thus far. And I have owned an HT-RC260 for 8 years with absolutely no issues.
Center channel dialogue depends a lot on the speaker, the placement of the speaker and the listener preference. Also IME source material varies greatly in regards to dialogue clarity and volume.

As for HDMI failure, that was a while and several generations ago. I wouldn't worry. The RZ has a 3 year warranty.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Onkyo RZ820
Roku Ultra, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Quattron
Kini62 is online now  
post #524 of 688 Old 11-17-2018, 07:58 AM
Member
 
Transistorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by bub_star View Post
Ok folks, I'm ready to purchase a new receiver to replace my trusty 806. I am looking at the 820 - any major differences between the 820 & the 920 that would justify the extra $$$ besides the extra channels?
Wow, I replaced my old 875 with the 820 as well last May!
Transistorious is offline  
post #525 of 688 Old 11-17-2018, 08:00 AM
Member
 
Transistorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingrukus View Post
Just picked up an 820 for $459.99 on woot.com

Now I am reading about HDMI failures on these receivers. Is it a certainty that I will suffer these same issues?

I bought a TX-NR676 earlier this year without any issues thus far. And I have owned an HT-RC260 for 8 years with absolutely no issues.
I had two 875s before the 820>>>NO HDMI issues.
Transistorious is offline  
post #526 of 688 Old 11-19-2018, 08:29 AM
Member
 
bub_star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transistorious View Post
Wow, I replaced my old 875 with the 820 as well last May!
How do you like it? I opted for the 920 instead.
bub_star is offline  
post #527 of 688 Old 11-19-2018, 09:28 AM
Member
 
Transistorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by bub_star View Post
How do you like it? I opted for the 920 instead.
¡I adore my 820!
Transistorious is offline  
post #528 of 688 Old 11-20-2018, 07:59 PM
Senior Member
 
razrsharp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Just to confirm guys this receiver got the eARC update via firmware, correct? Has anyone tried this feature and using/liking it?
I may finally pull the trigger on this on BF sales, to replace my aging 808.
razrsharp is offline  
post #529 of 688 Old 11-21-2018, 02:35 AM
Member
 
Sdroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by razrsharp View Post
Just to confirm guys this receiver got the eARC update via firmware, correct? Has anyone tried this feature and using/liking it?
I may finally pull the trigger on this on BF sales, to replace my aging 808.
No earc for this reciever, 830 got it
Sdroid is offline  
post #530 of 688 Old 11-22-2018, 10:01 AM
Senior Member
 
razrsharp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdroid View Post
No earc for this reciever, 830 got it
So the 820 will not get an eARC update, ever?
razrsharp is offline  
post #531 of 688 Old 11-24-2018, 04:00 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hi, can the 820 be used as a pre amp running the front L and R speakers with an external amp? Thanks!
Hoepki is offline  
post #532 of 688 Old 11-24-2018, 06:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
nodoubt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Liked: 260
roku, vudu, no atmos

why cant i get this onkyo to do atmos thru vudu?
tv is older model panasonic plasma, didnt think that should matter ?
nodoubt is offline  
post #533 of 688 Old 11-24-2018, 06:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
nodoubt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Liked: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoepki View Post
Hi, can the 820 be used as a pre amp running the front L and R speakers with an external amp? Thanks!
yep, thats how im running mine
Hoepki likes this.
nodoubt is offline  
post #534 of 688 Old 11-25-2018, 04:26 AM
Member
 
Sdroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoepki View Post
Hi, can the 820 be used as a pre amp running the front L and R speakers with an external amp? Thanks!
RZ820 and a Emotiva XPA3 Gen3
GLBright and Hoepki like this.
Sdroid is offline  
post #535 of 688 Old 11-25-2018, 07:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
nodoubt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Liked: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdroid View Post
RZ820 and a Emotiva XPA3 Gen3



looks loud
nodoubt is offline  
post #536 of 688 Old 12-09-2018, 11:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bill Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 1,315
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Finally retired my trusty SR876 and replaced it with the RZ720 so I could run 4K sources through a receiver instead of direct to the TV. The only comments I have relate to some legacy devices I have.

I mistakenly concluded I could run my JVC D-Theater HM-DH30000U tape machine into the 720 as it has the necessary component inputs. Only after i got the 720 did I see the fine print that indicates the 720 (and upper models as well) component inputs only support 480i and 576i. No love for the D-Theater 1080i output. Also, I saw that somebody early in this thread had problems using the component inputs. This detail explains it.

Also, I saw that the 720 has 6 analog inputs and I mistakenly concluded that this would support the 6 channel analog output of my Pioneer DV-563A DVD-Audio/SACD/DTS player. OK, that was a pretty naive conclusion that even a cursory look at an image of the rear panel would disprove. Those are not multichannel inputs like the SR876 has.

Anyway, both of these problems were not too difficult to overcome. An inexpensive component to HDMI converter seems to be working surprisingly well with the tape player. And I found a fairly inexpensive Sony UBP-X800 universal DVD and BluRay player that puts out DSD through HDMI, and the 720 is happily playing every format in my multichannel audio disc collection with that.
gene4ht and johnniedoo like this.

LG 65LA9650 (upgraded), Onkyo TX-RZ720
ADS L520 fronts, JBL L8400P sub, BIC Acoustech PL-26 center, Mirage Omnisat V2 surrs
NVIDIA Shield Android TV box
JVC HM-DH30000U
Sony UBP-X800

Last edited by Bill Ball; 12-09-2018 at 12:43 PM.
Bill Ball is offline  
post #537 of 688 Old 12-09-2018, 02:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gene4ht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 3,979
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1984 Post(s)
Liked: 2681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ball View Post
Finally retired my trusty SR876 and replaced it with the RZ720 so I could run 4K sources through a receiver instead of direct to the TV. The only comments I have relate to some legacy devices I have.

I mistakenly concluded I could run my JVC D-Theater HM-DH30000U tape machine into the 720 as it has the necessary component inputs. Only after i got the 720 did I see the fine print that indicates the 720 (and upper models as well) component inputs only support 480i and 576i. No love for the D-Theater 1080i output. Also, I saw that somebody early in this thread had problems using the component inputs. This detail explains it.

Also, I saw that the 720 has 6 analog inputs and I mistakenly concluded that this would support the 6 channel analog output of my Pioneer DV-563A DVD-Audio/SACD/DTS player. OK, that was a pretty naive conclusion that even a cursory look at an image of the rear panel would disprove. Those are not multichannel inputs like the SR876 has.

Anyway, both of these problems were not too difficult to overcome. An inexpensive component to HDMI converter seems to be working surprisingly well with the tape player. And I found a fairly inexpensive Sony UBP-X800 universal DVD and BluRay player that puts out DSD through HDMI, and the 720 is happily playing every format in my multichannel audio disc collection with that.

Although I no longer have any legacy devices in the chain, I'm sure those that do appreciate your post!

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
gene4ht is online now  
post #538 of 688 Old 12-11-2018, 04:56 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
New Guy Post...please don't hurt me!

I go way back with Onkyo (A-8200, which is in use today) and have never (knock, knock) had any issues. I want an AVR for a modest 82" Samsung setup with NHT Super Zero surrounds, Super Center and Velodyne Sub. The contenders are the 810, 820 and 720. Using Amazon as a pricing resource they all can be found for 450-600 (new/warranty). I have been concerned with several negative reviews related to HDMI and firmware updates and (worse) Onkyo's apparent lack of interest in helping with said issues. There is an Authorized service center in town. Should I take a chance on an open box (only 30days) to save $100?

Open to thoughts and suggestions. Thanks in advance!!
c_hawk60 is offline  
post #539 of 688 Old 12-11-2018, 05:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
GLBright's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Morgan County, Indiana
Posts: 799
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 114
c_hawk60, I've had an 810 for a few months now (factory refurb from Accessories4less) and it is performing flawlessly. Easily the best HT receiver I've ever owned. FWIW I can't find any difference at all in the specs for the 810 and 820.

Infinity Compositions Overture 3
Infinity Interlude IL60
Infinity Reference R162
GLBright is offline  
post #540 of 688 Old 12-11-2018, 08:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gene4ht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 3,979
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1984 Post(s)
Liked: 2681
Quote:
Originally Posted by c_hawk60 View Post
New Guy Post...please don't hurt me!

I go way back with Onkyo (A-8200, which is in use today) and have never (knock, knock) had any issues. I want an AVR for a modest 82" Samsung setup with NHT Super Zero surrounds, Super Center and Velodyne Sub. The contenders are the 810, 820 and 720. Using Amazon as a pricing resource they all can be found for 450-600 (new/warranty). I have been concerned with several negative reviews related to HDMI and firmware updates and (worse) Onkyo's apparent lack of interest in helping with said issues. There is an Authorized service center in town. Should I take a chance on an open box (only 30days) to save $100?

Open to thoughts and suggestions. Thanks in advance!!

Nothing in life is a 100% guarantee. I would not be overly concerned with a "few" negative reviews as they likely do not represent the majority of owners who have no issues and don't post their positive experiences. With a nearby authorized service center, there is even less reason to be concerned. To my knowledge, Onkyo has always addressed "legitimate" issues.

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
gene4ht is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off