"OFFICIAL" 2018 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 105 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3121 of 6410 Old 04-24-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Lynch View Post
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Got yet another update pop up on x4500h today 🤔 Two back to back updates in 2 week... cant be normal. Only thing I can think of is they're trying to fix something minor that may have broken after the last update but thats just speculation. Description is same as last time, improves overall performance and stability.


They updated the iOS apps today to work with the 2019 avrs. They say a firmware update is required on your avr for the updated apps to work. Could be just that.


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Im just happy Im not waiting on a major fix or feature via updates on the Denon like I usually am on other devices in the setup 🙂

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post #3122 of 6410 Old 04-24-2019, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnyg747 View Post
Well , I got the premium certified HDMI cable today , installed it. After powering everything down ofcourse.



The new cable did not fix the no sound issue. As I expected.



I believe the issue is with the set top box. I will just run an optical cable for sound. This way I can keep the enhanced video enabled.



Unless I find a different solution.
Now we know why every advice must be carefully examined and implemented only if it makes sense based in the system behavior being observed. The advisor does not and cannot know the system.
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post #3123 of 6410 Old 04-24-2019, 06:03 PM
 
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Only DIRECT and PURE DIRECT sound modes don't use Audyssey.
ok. thanks
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post #3124 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 08:50 AM
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Last monday my wife and I picked up the 4500X, this receiver has been mind blowing. We upgraded from a Yamaha RXA720 and it is night and days difference.

This past winter we also decided to get a 4k TV and picked up the Vizio P65F1 and I am a huge fan of this thing, now that we have 4k HDR at 60 running.

My problem lies with my subwoofer, https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/V1500, on my old receiver it powered it on automatically when needed and then it would go in standby when not used.

Now when it is hooked up to the new receiver I have it on standby/auto, and when it should turn on it is not. I have gone through my settings on the receiver and everything is set up as it should, to the best of my knowledge. When I did the audyssey it tested the sub just fine and got the gain set correctly, but it would only cycle it on and off during the audyssey set up.

Has anyone else had any issues with this?
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post #3125 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by magicc8ball View Post
Last monday my wife and I picked up the 4500X, this receiver has been mind blowing. We upgraded from a Yamaha RXA720 and it is night and days difference.

This past winter we also decided to get a 4k TV and picked up the Vizio P65F1 and I am a huge fan of this thing, now that we have 4k HDR at 60 running.

My problem lies with my subwoofer, https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/V1500, on my old receiver it powered it on automatically when needed and then it would go in standby when not used.

Now when it is hooked up to the new receiver I have it on standby/auto, and when it should turn on it is not. I have gone through my settings on the receiver and everything is set up as it should, to the best of my knowledge. When I did the audyssey it tested the sub just fine and got the gain set correctly, but it would only cycle it on and off during the audyssey set up.

Has anyone else had any issues with this?
First ensure the Front L/R speakers are set to SMALL/80Hz. Then to ensure the sub will power on, set the Subwoofer Level Adjust within about 3dB of 0db (eg. -2dB).
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post #3126 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by prsman View Post
I message exchange with Audyssey support. They are very good BTW. They dont have any documentation to provide to prove SW EQ is performed, however they sent this example of a before and after Subwoofer correction using Audyssey. To view this for ones own receiver you must use the MultiEQ Editor app. The app is only $20 but the pisser is that to use it you have to run the whole EQ procedure again using this app. it wont download prior EQ data from the Denon. Ill give it a try later using my PC and using Bluestack which is a android emulator for PC.
i don't think that the app actually measures the correction that it applies, for any speaker, and there isn't any measurement-only functionality, so that you could check what the app claimed that it did.

you need to use rew and a mike, if you want to get serious about this.

i think that your original question was, does audyssey tweak the bass curve, and i can tell you that based on pre/post measurements with rew, that audyssey does in fact work from at least 20hz up.

these are measurements: 1)rew before, 2)rew after, 3)audyssey app data(opened in the ratbuddyssey pc app).

you can see that audyssey did make a difference, in the rew comparison, beyond that we mainly care about the 38hz/95hz nulls being roughly similar in both rew and the audyssey app.

so what is wrong here? the biggest problem by far is that rew shows heavy roll-off after 100hz, in both pre/post measurements, while the audyssey app doesn't show that at all... not sure what to attribute that difference to.
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post #3127 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 11:54 AM
 
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i don't think that the app actually measures the correction that it applies, for any speaker, .
Here is a Audyssey "before" and "after" for the SW and a front speaker. I thought Audyssey correction impressive. This is using an Audyssey app called MultiEQ editor. Audyssey told me they can correct with 9db of gain and 20b of attenuation. You can do this for each speaker and then manipulate the shape of the corrected curve graphically by dragging it where you want. When done you upload that to the receiver. Its an android app but I run it on my PC with an android emulator.
I reduced my 72Hz null by moving the SW but its still significant and beyond complete correction.


Next it to use REW to validate the results shown by Audyssey.
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post #3128 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by prsman View Post
Here is a Audyssey "before" and "after" for the SW and a front speaker. I thought Audyssey correction impressive. This is using an Audyssey app called MultiEQ editor. Audyssey told me they can correct with 9db of gain and 20b of attenuation. You can do this for each speaker and then manipulate the shape of the corrected curve graphically by dragging it where you want. When done you upload that to the receiver. Its an android app but I run it on my PC with an android emulator.
I reduced my 72Hz null by moving the SW but its still significant and beyond complete correction.
yes, getting the sub right is probably one of the most important things that can be done.

i'm referring to the same multieq editor app that you are, but i've opened that multieq data up in a pc program, so that i can actually make sense out of the curve data... you can do the same thing, here is the program: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...app-files.html

i think that you understand that you are not seeing any actual correction measurements with what you did with the app, it's a hypothetical scenario only.


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Next it to use REW to validate the results shown by Audyssey.
exactly, the app can't validate itself, because it doesn't actually measure what it did... the main point that i posted is that your question about whether or not multieq works on sub frequencies is that yes, it apparently does, per the rew measurements.
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post #3129 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 01:40 PM
 
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i think that you understand that you are not seeing any actual correction measurements with what you did with the app, it's a hypothetical scenario only.

.
Nope I dont understand that......in fact quite the opposite is my understanding. Actual correction results are shown and it in fact is not hypothetical but definitive.
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post #3130 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by magicc8ball View Post
My problem lies with my subwoofer, https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/V1500, on my old receiver it powered it on automatically when needed and then it would go in standby when not used.

Now when it is hooked up to the new receiver I have it on standby/auto, and when it should turn on it is not. I have gone through my settings on the receiver and everything is set up as it should, to the best of my knowledge. When I did the audyssey it tested the sub just fine and got the gain set correctly, but it would only cycle it on and off during the audyssey set up.

Has anyone else had any issues with this?
I use a soundbar with sub and so I have the front speakers set to small. But the Denon AVR was only sending stuff to the sub via the LFE (i.e. subwoofer) track on movies and I had to change a setting to get the subwoofer to always get the bass, so that it would mix all the below-crossover frequencies to the subwoofer. I think it's in the subwoofer menu but may be elsewhere. By AVR default, I believe the subwoofer is only engaged for audio signals that include the .1.
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post #3131 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 02:33 PM
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Nope I dont understand that......in fact quite the opposite is my understanding. Actual correction results are shown and it in fact is not hypothetical but definitive.
no, audyssey does not re-test after calculating the correction, what you see in the multieq "comparison" is a measurement(before) vs. correction calculation(after).

you can see that easily by how audyssey behaves... after making all of the audible measurements, it takes awhile calculating the room correction, then applies that to the avr, without ever running another audible measurement.

the only way that multieq could be definitive is if it actually did a measurement to confirm the changes that it made, which it doesn't... that's why you need something like rew.
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post #3132 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Andy_H View Post
I use a soundbar with sub and so I have the front speakers set to small. But the Denon AVR was only sending stuff to the sub via the LFE (i.e. subwoofer) track on movies and I had to change a setting to get the subwoofer to always get the bass, so that it would mix all the below-crossover frequencies to the subwoofer. I think it's in the subwoofer menu but may be elsewhere. By AVR default, I believe the subwoofer is only engaged for audio signals that include the .1.
If the Front L/R speakers are set to SMALL (as recommended), then the Sub = LFE and Sub = LFE + MAIN will have the same results (ie. in addition to the LFE signal, the sub will also receive those frequencies below the Front L/R crossover). It's only when the DIRECT or PURE DIRECT sound modes are selected that the Sub = LFE will only pass LFE and the SUB = LFE+MAIN will also pass those frequencies below the Front L/R crossover setting.
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post #3133 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 03:14 PM
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You would be better served with either (2) SVS PB1000 or (1) SVS PB2000. Put the Polks in another room.


Thanks for the advice jdsmoothie . I did a bunch of research on here and found a good price on a monolith 10 sub which I ordered.

I’ll add a second one in the future (amazon only had one in Canada).

The SVS PB-1000 was more expensive here and many of the top brands are unavailable.
I decided against one 12” sub because I know I’ll just want a matched pair in a few months anyways.

I’ll wait for amazon to restock the monolith 10. Hopefully it’ll be a dramatic improvement over the psw10!


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post #3134 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
If the Front L/R speakers are set to SMALL (as recommended), then the Sub = LFE and Sub = LFE + MAIN will have the same results (ie. in addition to the LFE signal, the sub will also receive those frequencies below the Front L/R crossover). It's only when the DIRECT or PURE DIRECT sound modes are selected that the Sub = LFE will only pass LFE and the SUB = LFE+MAIN will also pass those frequencies below the Front L/R crossover setting.
Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking of the Sub = LFE + MAIN as the change I made to get my sub engaged for everything. I was playing with the settings, but I thought I didn't set DIRECT or PURE DIRECT.
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post #3135 of 6410 Old 04-25-2019, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnyg747 View Post
Well , I got the premium certified HDMI cable today , installed it. After powering everything down ofcourse.

The new cable did not fix the no sound issue. As I expected.

I believe the issue is with the set top box. I will just run an optical cable for sound. This way I can keep the enhanced video enabled.

Unless I find a different solution.
Don't worry, they'll be along shortly to tell you that you should try another "premium certified HDMI cable". Every problem everyone has is caused by their HDMI cables.
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post #3136 of 6410 Old 04-26-2019, 05:12 AM
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Hi
Does anyone has this "bug/problem" with Denon receiver 1500 ?

My setup is 5.1.2 (two top middle ceiling speakers for atmos)
When I watch something with Dolby Atmos Denon receiver recognize it and shows Input signal as Dolby Atmos.
But when I press "info" button it would show all my active speakers highlighted but without TML, TMR, eventhough there is a sound coming from those ceiling speakers.
Strange thing is if I run Denon setup before watching movie and manually adjust TML and TMR speakers output level by just 0,5 db (I can even change their levels back after a second)
then I would get those active speakers TML and TMR highlighted


Anyone notice this bug ??

Cheers for any answers
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Originally Posted by monkaquinas View Post
I have the same issue, non-issue?, as I can hear audio being fed to my Atmos speakers. I will check on it during lulls in a movie and then it will will be highlighted. A display/recognistion bug possibly? I just updated my FW to the latest, hoping that it might be resolved but no change. At least I'm getting audio, just hope it's what it should be. Any others out there?
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
This is because you are using the "AUTO" mode rather than more correctly selecting the MOVIE button and selecting Atmos.
I tried pure direct, pure auto and all the movie button options. Still the same problem. Only option to have those TML TMR active speaker highlighted is to adjust their output level before playing the movie (send test signal) .
Its a little bit annoying
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post #3137 of 6410 Old 04-26-2019, 05:54 AM
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This question might seem like it's from 2009, but I've got some old gear so bear with me....

I'm thinking of replacing an old Denon AVR-3805 in my home theater because my Zone-2 amp channels flake out sometimes. I'm looking closely at some refurb models, either a AVR-X3400H or an AVR-X3500H.

For video I'm feeling an InFocus SP7205. Yes, that's old too. It's only 720p and only has component inputs.

I control all of this gear with a stone tablet and chisel, then send smoke signals to someone on the other side of the room.

If I upgrade to the X3400/X3500 and input HDMI, will it down-convert and send the video signal out the component monitor output?

Of course I want to upgrade the PJ also, but would like to really do it right and I don't want to spend the time or money for that right now. So I'd love to to upgrade the AVR and allow for modern inputs while still being able to use the current PJ for a while.
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post #3138 of 6410 Old 04-26-2019, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by qwertyz666 View Post
I tried pure direct, pure auto and all the movie button options. Still the same problem. Only option to have those TML TMR active speaker highlighted is to adjust their output level before playing the movie (send test signal) .
Its a little bit annoying
I do use the MOVIE button to select the Dolby Atmos surround mode, which I think the manual states will be retained the next time you watch a movie. What I have seen is that for some movies it work fine, RP1, when the I select the Audio before the movie starts. But I have done this for other movies and when I press INFO, the TML & TMR are not highlighted, but I do hear audio. When I check later on it may be highlighted or it may not be. It's a little annoying but I feel that it's an issue with the INFO display, not an actual functional issue...I hope.

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post #3139 of 6410 Old 04-26-2019, 09:41 AM
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Your pic did not load properly.

This is a big issue. I had hoped that if that was true a lot of forum members will be mentioning it. But since they did not, I assumed that EQ is being done to the signal sent to subwoofer as well. The support person did say that EQ is being done from. 20 hz to 20khz. How could it be so if subwoofer signal is excluded.

It does not make sense.
Here is a written response from Denon. In short, Room Correction EQ is done before subwoofer output is split.

My name is Jim. I am a Tier 2 Technical Support Lead for Denon and Marantz. It is my understanding that you are trying to figure out if the Audyssey MultEQ settings are applied before or after the crossover between your regular speakers and the subwoofer happens.

 

All digital signal processing happens before the signal is sent to your speakers. So the sound format is chosen, and the unit up or downmixes the signal for that sound mode, the equalizer settings are applied, the crossover is set and then the signal is sent to your speakers. Technically, the EQ settings happen first, but it is very close to all at once.
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post #3140 of 6410 Old 04-26-2019, 10:18 AM
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Guys a small dilemma only if I make it one....I have the AVR-X2500H, debate is should I upgrade to the 3500 for the 4K upscaling to 60 FPS? All other issues are dealt with my main reason is to get the upscaling, is it worth it?

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post #3141 of 6410 Old 04-26-2019, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys a small dilemma only if I make it one....I have the AVR-X2500H, debate is should I upgrade to the 3500 for the 4K upscaling to 60 FPS? All other issues are dealt with my main reason is to get the upscaling, is it worth it?
Not just for the upscaling no as your TV will take care of that; however, there are numerous additional features on the X3500H you may want to use to include: (a) eARC, (b) Zone 2 HDMI monitor output, (c) dual sub level/delay, (d) Audyssey MultEQ XT32, and (e) PCM 2.0 over HDMI to Zone 2.
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post #3142 of 6410 Old 04-26-2019, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactive View Post
This question might seem like it's from 2009, but I've got some old gear so bear with me....

I'm thinking of replacing an old Denon AVR-3805 in my home theater because my Zone-2 amp channels flake out sometimes. I'm looking closely at some refurb models, either a AVR-X3400H or an AVR-X3500H.

For video I'm feeling an InFocus SP7205. Yes, that's old too. It's only 720p and only has component inputs.

I control all of this gear with a stone tablet and chisel, then send smoke signals to someone on the other side of the room.

If I upgrade to the X3400/X3500 and input HDMI, will it down-convert and send the video signal out the component monitor output?

Of course I want to upgrade the PJ also, but would like to really do it right and I don't want to spend the time or money for that right now. So I'd love to to upgrade the AVR and allow for modern inputs while still being able to use the current PJ for a while.
Nope.
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post #3143 of 6410 Old 04-26-2019, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyz666 View Post
I tried pure direct, pure auto and all the movie button options. Still the same problem. Only option to have those TML TMR active speaker highlighted is to adjust their output level before playing the movie (send test signal) .
Its a little bit annoying
If you start playing the movie audio, you should then be able to select the correct surround mode after pressing the MOVIE button.
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post #3144 of 6410 Old 04-26-2019, 05:21 PM
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The last two days our AVR-X4500H and AVR-X3400H have had the same behavior on initial power up in the morning. The units power up and display normal video but no audio at all. Changing inputs, cycling Zone 2 on/off, or changing audio settings had no effect. After turning off and holding the power button for a RESTART they both power up and audio works normally. Today after every thing was working normally I waited an hour and turned off the 4500, waited another hour and turned it back on with no problems, so it seems to be a problem that occurs after being shut down over night. I don't think this is a set top box issue. It has happened with an AppleTV 4K and a DirecTV DVR as the input on shutdown. Anyone had this happen lately. The only change made was a firmware update a couple days ago. Any help would be appreciated.
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post #3145 of 6410 Old 04-27-2019, 01:35 AM
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So i/p scaler do you guys leave it on or off? And what does it really do?
it's a personal preference. It scales the input video up to 4k.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
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post #3146 of 6410 Old 04-27-2019, 07:47 AM
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Hi,

I am about to purchase the Denon 4500H, Could someone help me clarify the following:

In a 5.1.4 speaker configuration, can the Front and Center Channels(LCR) be driven through the pre-outs (and only) while the rest 6 channels (2 + 4) by the on-board amplifier. If yes what is the corresponding configuration (Assign Mode /Layout/Pre-Out)?



Having gone through the first pages of this thread I feel(hope) that the answer is a yes (I quote -
"all the pre-outs are hot such that you could externally power up to all 11 speakers if you prefer")


Thanks
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post #3147 of 6410 Old 04-27-2019, 09:26 AM
 
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How Input Test signal for all channels?

I'm trying to use Room Equalizer Wizard (REW) to characterize each channel with and without Audyssey.
Where would I input a test signal so that its output on all channels?


There is a stereo analog audio inputs on the back but how do I test 7 channels and subwoofer?


Thanks!

Last edited by prsman; 04-27-2019 at 09:40 AM.
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post #3148 of 6410 Old 04-27-2019, 01:05 PM
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Denon X3500 - Dynamic Volume question

Recently bought this receiver coming from 2009 Denon 1909.

When I set the Dynamic Volume to any setting other than OFF, whenever there is a drop in sound when watching TV/Blu Ray, such as a pause, and then sound resumes, it takes several seconds for the sound to ramp up to the normal volume. Conversely, when I watch TV and I'm forwarding, rewinding, for a split second after resuming play the audio level is high but quickly settles down to the correct level. My Denon 1909 never had this characteristic. Is this normal? Thanks!
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post #3149 of 6410 Old 04-27-2019, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dionat21 View Post
Hi,

I am about to purchase the Denon 4500H, Could someone help me clarify the following:

In a 5.1.4 speaker configuration, can the Front and Center Channels(LCR) be driven through the pre-outs (and only) while the rest 6 channels (2 + 4) by the on-board amplifier. If yes what is the corresponding configuration (Assign Mode /Layout/Pre-Out)?



Having gone through the first pages of this thread I feel(hope) that the answer is a yes (I quote -
"all the pre-outs are hot such that you could externally power up to all 11 speakers if you prefer")


Thanks
The AMP ASSIGN setting has nothing to do with the pre-outs. You want a 9CH configuration so use AMP ASSIGN = 9.1CH. You can then externally power as many speakers as you prefer.
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post #3150 of 6410 Old 04-27-2019, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The AMP ASSIGN setting has nothing to do with the pre-outs. You want a 9CH configuration so use AMP ASSIGN = 9.1CH. You can then externally power as many speakers as you prefer.
Thanks
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