"OFFICIAL" 2018 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 142 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4231 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Well that is not that long as mine. Could you check how many seconds blackout you get when enabling or disabling "All Zone Stereo" in your Denon? That should work even if you don't have multi zone setup.
Now that's closer to 6. 5.6, 5.4. Looks like it's normal with that particular all zone setting.

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post #4232 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkfan View Post
I don't think Oppo is in the disk player business any more. Both HDMI1 and 2 have the same capability so I'm not worried about it. I was only using one output anyway. On the bright side, the x3500h is awesome. The Multeq XT32 and Dynamic EQ are a major improvement over the Audyssey in the 2808CI.
I agree. I went from a 12 year old 2805 to a 2016 X4300H myself. XT32 is so much better than my older one mic position setup. OPPO isn't in the retail end of player sales. They still offer support and player repairs but I understand it's not a big deal with having a second working input.

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post #4233 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Tighten the mic pattern up when you rerun Audyssey. Stay within a foot or so of the first center of head mic position then fan out from there to each ear location, the next 3 a foot or so in front of those first 3 and the last 2 a foot above the first 3. Basically a small bubble around the first distance and level setting one but no positions taken behind the first one. Also stay about 18 inches away from any hard boundaries and if you can't then lay a blanket or pillow over the hard boundary before taking the measurement.
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Nor should you. In your case, the mic positions should be placed inside of a semi-circle going forward of the 1st mic position (instead of a full circle around the 1st mic position).
Gentlemen, it's been a few days since I last posted an update on my issue. I wanted to take enough time to work the problem and learn as much as I could before coming back here. And now, having spent hours calibrating and recalibrating, tweaking and retweaking, I feel I haven given it all I can for now.

I ran the calibration Madmax67 suggested with meticulous care. Following the calibration, I made some adjustments to Audyssey. They're as follow: Dynamic EQ is ON (with 0dB offset), and Dynamic Volume is ON and set to Medium. I didn't make any manual adjustments to any of the room correction values derived from the calibration, such as the distances, dB levels, crossovers, etc.

All that effort brought me to this conclusion: Turning on Dynamic Volume makes the single-most improvement to the overall volume level, but the initial problem of volume loss is still very much there. This is dramatically demonstrated when I switch the sound mode from one of the processed modes to Direct or Pure Direct. The volume drops from loud to almost imperceptible.

There is an additional symptom, one which I noticed quite early on but chose to not mention until I was more sure of what I was hearing. The sound quality of the receiver has also changed. I'm not sure exactly how to explain this, but sound seems "thin," missing the fullness that was once present, and extremely shrill. I can tune some of this out with Audyssey, of course, but it's still there when I turn off Audyssey.

And therein lies my concern. Something does seem very different with my receiver, and not in a good way. Maybe I'm being overly concerned. Maybe there are some other things I can do try to diagnose the problem and abate it. What do you think?
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post #4234 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 06:52 PM
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Gentlemen, it's been a few days since I last posted an update on my issue. I wanted to take enough time to work the problem and learn as much as I could before coming back here. And now, having spent hours calibrating and recalibrating, tweaking and retweaking, I feel I haven given it all I can for now.



I ran the calibration Madmax67 suggested with meticulous care. Following the calibration, I made some adjustments to Audyssey. They're as follow: Dynamic EQ is ON (with 0dB offset), and Dynamic Volume is ON and set to Medium. I didn't make any manual adjustments to any of the room correction values derived from the calibration, such as the distances, dB levels, crossovers, etc.



All that effort brought me to this conclusion: Turning on Dynamic Volume makes the single-most improvement to the overall volume level, but the initial problem of volume loss is still very much there. This is dramatically demonstrated when I switch the sound mode from one of the processed modes to Direct or Pure Direct. The volume drops from loud to almost imperceptible.



There is an additional symptom, one which I noticed quite early on but chose to not mention until I was more sure of what I was hearing. The sound quality of the receiver has also changed. I'm not sure exactly how to explain this, but sound seems "thin," missing the fullness that was once present, and extremely shrill. I can tune some of this out with Audyssey, of course, but it's still there when I turn off Audyssey.



And therein lies my concern. Something does seem very different with my receiver, and not in a good way. Maybe I'm being overly concerned. Maybe there are some other things I can do try to diagnose the problem and abate it. What do you think?
At this point I think you've done all of the self diagnostic stuff possible. I'd contact Denon and let them run you through their troubleshooting steps and if no joy then RMA it back to Denon. Especially since you've had 6 months of a totally different sound experience and now this. And this is happening in every sound mode right? Multi channel music, stereo, DSU etc...?

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post #4235 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 06:55 PM
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Sounds to me like you basically have nothing to worry about. I ran my denon 4500 without the t8 inside my closed cabinet and it still only topped out and high 90s after a few hours of use. I could have probably lived without the fan but I want to take care of my gear so I picked up the T8 anyways. I think you’re set.


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You are probably right, but it can't hurt. I got my second unit today for my other HT setup. This area of the house isn't quite as cool as the first area. The idle probe temp reads 82, even though I think the room is a bit cooler, maybe 80 tops. Could just be that particular area. I haven't pushed it hard yet, but it did get up to 84 with around 2 hours of ATV4K playback.

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post #4236 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 06:56 PM
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@jhumur I missed the part where you didn't mess with any crossover changes. Without a subwoofer that's fine but with a sub you should check that all speakers are set to Small and crossed over at 80HZ.

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post #4237 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
At this point I think you've done all of the self diagnostic stuff possible. I'd contact Denon and let them run you through their troubleshooting steps and if no joy then RMA it back to Denon. Especially since you've had 6 months of a totally different sound experience and now this. And this is happening in every sound mode right? Multi channel music, stereo, DSU etc...?
No, these symptoms are most apparent when I'm listening in Direct or Pure Direct modes. On other modes, I can mostly mitigate these symptoms by playing with Audyssey settings; specifically, by turning on Dynamic Volume. But with Dynamic Volume off, these symptoms are ubiquitous. Is bears mentioning that the volume/sound quality issues are apparent both when listening through the speakers and the headphones

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@jhumur I missed the part where you didn't mess with any crossover changes. Without a subwoofer that's fine but with a sub you should check that all speakers are set to Small and crossed over at 80HZ.
Yes, all my speakers, the fronts and center (I don't have any surround speakers), are set to SMALL and the crossovers are set to 80 Hz.

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post #4238 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jhumur View Post
No, these symptoms are most apparent when I'm listening in Direct or Pure Direct modes. On other modes, I can mostly mitigate these symptoms by playing with Audyssey settings; specifically, by turning on Dynamic Volume. But with Dynamic Volume off, these symptoms are ubiquitous. Is bears mentioning that the volume/sound quality issues are apparent both when listening through the speakers and the headphones



Yes, all my speakers, the fronts and center (I don't have any surround speakers), are set to SMALL and the crossovers are set to 80 Hz.
The Direct modes bypass Audyssey's EQ filters and bass mgmt but there still shouldn't be that drastic a difference especially since it's a recent occurrence. Listening at 60 on the Absolute scale is only 20dB down from Reference level. I've switched back and forth between Auto and Direct and there's minimal sound level loss at that same level on my setup. Depending on the number of filters set by Audyssey though that can vary from setup to setup.

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post #4239 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
The Direct modes bypass Audyssey's EQ filters and bass mgmt but there still shouldn't be that drastic a difference especially since it's a recent occurrence. Listening at 60 on the Absolute scale is only 20dB down from Reference level. I've switched back and forth between Auto and Direct and there's minimal sound level loss at that same level on my setup. Depending on the number of filters set by Audyssey though that can vary from setup to setup.
Exactly. That's been my experience all along until this sudden change in the system. In the past when I switched from Direct to one of the "filtered" modes, there would be some changes of course but nothing this dramatic. Now, it swings from a volume level that is loud to something that is indiscernible.
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post #4240 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 08:39 PM
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Setting up my x3500h and using the surround back terminals for a 2nd set of front speakers. Would like to use them as height speakers for certain media, but as an A-B setup for others. Wondering how Audyssey handles this set of speakers in the various amp-assign modes. Which modes, if any, assigns separate adjustments for these speakers, and which treat them as a combined speaker? Also, can Audysssey store settings for more than one amp-assign mode at a time, or would I have to restore settings from a backup if I want to change modes. Also would the bi-amp mode be of any use in this situation or is it the same as a-b in this case?
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post #4241 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 09:12 PM
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Setting up my x3500h and using the surround back terminals for a 2nd set of front speakers. Would like to use them as height speakers for certain media, but as an A-B setup for others. Wondering how Audyssey handles this set of speakers in the various amp-assign modes. Which modes, if any, assigns separate adjustments for these speakers, and which treat them as a combined speaker? Also, can Audysssey store settings for more than one amp-assign mode at a time, or would I have to restore settings from a backup if I want to change modes. Also would the bi-amp mode be of any use in this situation or is it the same as a-b in this case?
You would need to run 2 seperate Audyssey calibrations with each amp assign mode and save them to USB to restore one over the other. Using the Audyssey app makes this a lot easier but it can still be done solely through the receiver without the app. It just takes longer. Passive bi amping is a waste of time and energy and accomplishes nothing. The AB setting isn't for more power. It's to easily swap between 2 pairs of main speakers. Using it in A+B mode isn't a good idea.

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post #4242 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Now that's closer to 6. 5.6, 5.4. Looks like it's normal with that particular all zone setting.
Ok. So no hope of getting it fixed. It is annoying. I can not imagine all AVRs has the same 6 second blackout.
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post #4243 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
You would need to run 2 seperate Audyssey calibrations with each amp assign mode and save them to USB to restore one over the other. Using the Audyssey app makes this a lot easier but it can still be done solely through the receiver without the app. It just takes longer. Passive bi amping is a waste of time and energy and accomplishes nothing. The AB setting isn't for more power. It's to easily swap between 2 pairs of main speakers. Using it in A+B mode isn't a good idea.

Are you saying that in A/B mode both speakers share the same amp? Even on 7.2 Receivers? That doesn't make much sense.

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post #4244 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 11:39 PM
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Are you saying that in A/B mode both speakers share the same amp? Even on 7.2 Receivers? That doesn't make much sense.
No. They use the surround back amp's. Not a good idea acoustically to play all 4 together playing the same signal. I guess if you separated them enough they would act as some sort of array. I never liked the sound playing all 4 of mine at the same time but YMMV as mine were always closer together. I used that feature as a way to add another speaker pair with a different sound signature for certain types of music.

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post #4245 of 4909 Old 07-19-2019, 11:56 PM
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Ok. So no hope of getting it fixed. It is annoying. I can not imagine all AVRs has the same 6 second blackout.
I don't think anything's necessarily broken to fix honestly. Just the added delay when dealing with multiple zones as my delay in just the main zone is only a few seconds less and perfectly fine when not looking at my stopwatch. I gave you an unimagined example of Yamaha receivers with go get ya some popcorn delays regarding HDMI switching so I can imagine it being similar due to how HDMI switching works. Look at it this way. You'll have a legitimate feature need to upgrade to HDMI 2.1 when it becomes universal in receivers and TV's as this delay with HDMI 2.0 is supposedly going away with instant source switching.

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post #4246 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 07:06 AM
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I don't think anything's necessarily broken to fix honestly. Just the added delay when dealing with multiple zones as my delay in just the main zone is only a few seconds less and perfectly fine when not looking at my stopwatch. I gave you an unimagined example of Yamaha receivers with go get ya some popcorn delays regarding HDMI switching so I can imagine it being similar due to how HDMI switching works. Look at it this way. You'll have a legitimate feature need to upgrade to HDMI 2.1 when it becomes universal in receivers and TV's as this delay with HDMI 2.0 is supposedly going away with instant source switching.
Ok. I understand. Thanks.

Why do I get a delay even when I am changing audio modes without switching HDMI sources?

Also, is HDMI 2.1 just around the corner? My cheap HDMI stand alone switcher does not have this delay either.
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post #4247 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 10:35 AM
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Is there any significance to the color of the of the on screen overlay when changing volume, particularly the volume bar, etc?

Most of the time it is blue, but I've seen it kind of purple as well?

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post #4248 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Ok. I understand. Thanks.

Why do I get a delay even when I am changing audio modes without switching HDMI sources?

Also, is HDMI 2.1 just around the corner? My cheap HDMI stand alone switcher does not have this delay either.
HDMI 2.1 models should start being released summer 2020.
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post #4249 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Is there any significance to the color of the of the on screen overlay when changing volume, particularly the volume bar, etc?

Most of the time it is blue, but I've seen it kind of purple as well?
Nope.
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post #4250 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 12:24 PM
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Oppo announced they were going out business, some time ago.
False. Are you on drugs?! They are a MASSIVE company and are on sound financial footing, they are one of the world's biggest manufacturers of smartphones, they are NOT "going out of business" and it's simply not true that they announced that! That's a crazy misrepresentation of what happened. You're saying that they went bust, that is absolutely ludicrous!

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You could try. A few months ago I was able to send my 83 in for a checkup as the draw was behaving oddly. Cost me a few bucks, but since I knew they were going out,
False again.

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I acted fast, figuring it was worth it. Write them immediately. Too bad they had great customer service as well as products.
They still do have great customer service and products. They aren't going anywhere. All they did is withdraw from ONE of their many markets (blu-ray players). They said they were going to concentrate on other markets. How you can end up thinking they announced they were going bust... wow, just wow
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post #4251 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 12:30 PM
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False. Are you on drugs?! They are a MASSIVE company and are on sound financial footing, they are one of the world's biggest manufacturers of smartphones, they are NOT "going out of business" and it's simply not true that they announced that! That's a crazy misrepresentation of what happened. You're saying that they went bust, that is absolutely ludicrous!



False again.



They still do have great customer service and products. They aren't going anywhere. All they did is withdraw from ONE of their many markets (blu-ray players). They said they were going to concentrate on other markets. How you can end up thinking they announced they were going bust... wow, just wow
I’m glad you were finally able to figure out what I meant. Now where are my drugs ............

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post #4252 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 12:42 PM
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Ok. I understand. Thanks.

Why do I get a delay even when I am changing audio modes without switching HDMI sources?

Also, is HDMI 2.1 just around the corner? My cheap HDMI stand alone switcher does not have this delay either.
Welcome. Yeah, that just takes a few seconds on my X4300 switching sound modes so if on yours that's also 6 seconds that seems long to me. I saw JD answered the 2.1 due date. I still don't have a lot of faith in anything HDMI as it's the format itself that is flawed but that's not changing anytime soon because of DRM concerns. It's just that the problems will be different ones . HDMI will always operate on the edge of failure because that's what it was designed to do. Instant switching sure sounds nice though.

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post #4253 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
False. Are you on drugs?! They are a MASSIVE company and are on sound financial footing, they are one of the world's biggest manufacturers of smartphones, they are NOT "going out of business" and it's simply not true that they announced that! That's a crazy misrepresentation of what happened. You're saying that they went bust, that is absolutely ludicrous!



False again.



They still do have great customer service and products. They aren't going anywhere. All they did is withdraw from ONE of their many markets (blu-ray players). They said they were going to concentrate on other markets. How you can end up thinking they announced they were going bust... wow, just wow
Oppo phones aren't sold in America, Oppo Digital is the only representation of Oppo here. So, very few Americans have heard of Oppo in the first place, and most of those will only know of Oppo Digital, so it's no surprise that what few Americans have heard of Oppo in the first place most will think it's shut down. I suspect that Oppo Digital will only go on a few more years before being totally shut down.

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post #4254 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
False. They are a MASSIVE company and are on sound financial footing, they are one of the world's biggest manufacturers of smartphones, they are NOT "going out of business" and it's simply not true that they announced that! That's a crazy misrepresentation of what happened. You're saying that they went bust, that is absolutely ludicrous!
Correct. OPPO Digital is winding down not OPPO itself. They have already funded and contracted out warranty support for as long as a player could be under warranty which is still for a few years longer. They also stocked up on spare parts as well although I'm sure older models weren't the concern there. I could still get maintenance done on my 103 if I wanted but there's nothing wrong with it or the 203 so far. OPPO offers very fair flat rate out of warranty repair pricing by the way.

Bottom line is they know full well if they bolt the American market abruptly leaving warrantied products out in the wind they will never be able to enter the US market again in the future with other products without getting mercilessly ripped by its once loyal owner base. Funny thing is imagine any other company leaving a market and think how they would have probably handled it. I doubt it would be anything like the way OPPO is. It'd be a See ya wouldn't want to be ya type of thing. Back to everything Denon.
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post #4255 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluewookie View Post
Is there any significance to the color of the of the on screen overlay when changing volume, particularly the volume bar, etc?



Most of the time it is blue, but I've seen it kind of purple as well?
As long as it's just the inner volume display that's purple that's fine. It's when other parts of the screen are off color is when you might have a color space mismatch.

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post #4256 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Oppo phones aren't sold in America, Oppo Digital is the only representation of Oppo here. So, very few Americans have heard of Oppo in the first place, and most of those will only know of Oppo Digital, so it's no surprise that what few Americans have heard of Oppo in the first place most will think it's shut down. I suspect that Oppo Digital will only go on a few more years before being totally shut down.
Maybe, maybe not. That's nothing to do with my point which was that their announcement was NOT "our company is going out of business", and couldn't have been interpreted as such, unless substances were involved, which Mactavish seems to have mislaid . Anyway, I think it's all clarified now

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post #4257 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 09:43 PM
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Unhappy DTS sound loss

Hi, guys!
I've encountered with really frustrating issue my x4500h. DTS stream goes complitly silent after some time of playback. DTS-HD MA and DTS:X are also affected.
Sometimes sound loss accompanied by cracks and popping, sometimes not.
Setup: 7.1.4 x4500h + a-150 (fronts)
FW: 2461-5024-1141-5005 (DTS 3.90.50.51)
Meanwhile I have zero issues with Dolby streams.
I have a short video demonstration, but sadly cant link it due low posts count
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post #4258 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GREMeZ View Post
Hi, guys!
I've encountered with really frustrating issue my x4500h. DTS stream goes complitly silent after some time of playback. DTS-HD MA and DTS:X are also affected.
Sometimes sound loss accompanied by cracks and popping, sometimes not.
Setup: 7.1.4 x4500h + a-150 (fronts)
FW: 2461-5024-1141-5005 (DTS 3.90.50.51)
Meanwhile I have zero issues with Dolby streams.
I have a short video demonstration, but sadly cant link it due low posts count
Sources: Nvidia Shield TV (Kodi, Plex), Xbox One X (audio set to DTS bitstream)
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post #4259 of 4909 Old 07-20-2019, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREMeZ View Post
Hi, guys!
I've encountered with really frustrating issue my x4500h. DTS stream goes complitly silent after some time of playback. DTS-HD MA and DTS:X are also affected.
Sometimes sound loss accompanied by cracks and popping, sometimes not.
Setup: 7.1.4 x4500h + a-150 (fronts)
FW: 2461-5024-1141-5005 (DTS 3.90.50.51)
Meanwhile I have zero issues with Dolby streams.
I have a short video demonstration, but sadly cant link it due low posts count
How many posts do you need

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post #4260 of 4909 Old 07-21-2019, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREMeZ View Post
Hi, guys!
I've encountered with really frustrating issue my x4500h. DTS stream goes complitly silent after some time of playback. DTS-HD MA and DTS:X are also affected.
Sometimes sound loss accompanied by cracks and popping, sometimes not.
Setup: 7.1.4 x4500h + a-150 (fronts)
FW: 2461-5024-1141-5005 (DTS 3.90.50.51)
Meanwhile I have zero issues with Dolby streams.
I have a short video demonstration, but sadly cant link it due low posts count
Could be a defective DTS decoder, although rare. Refer to post 5 and start with a "restart" and if no joy, a microprocessor reset.
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