"OFFICIAL" 2018 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 164 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4891 of 5372 Old 09-13-2019, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by sd_smoker View Post
Do you use Quick Settings? I setup my Quick Settings prior to running Audyssey and it took me awhile to figure out why it kept getting disabled. Anytime you change a setting, you need to save Quick Settings again.

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Hi, nope, I have not use Quick Settings yet. Is just switch on unit, select source to play and noticed Audyssey is sometimes not on.

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post #4892 of 5372 Old 09-13-2019, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
What does an EDID Emulator do?

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The EDID emulator is supposed to help resolve any handshake issues that may be occurring between 2 devices. I'm not even going to pretend I understand the technical aspects of it to try describe it in more detail, but there are plenty of articles online that explain it in detail. In my case, I'm hoping it will resolve what appears to be a handshake issue between my cable STB and AVR where the hdmi signal keep intermittently dropping out.

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post #4893 of 5372 Old 09-13-2019, 07:46 PM
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Please keep us updated on your findings. It's driving me crazy.

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No luck yet. I got the GoFanco Prophecy ProHDrepeat repeater and tried between Roku and AVR, then AVR and PJ.
Then I tried the GoFanco PRO-EDIDemul emulator, between both pairs of devices as above. This one has quite a few settings so there are more permutations to try out, but so far nothing has worked. Same problem. It sorta worked (once) but only when I set it to 4k HDR mode w/ 2ch audio instead of 7.1. Which...yep, not a great thing for someone with one of these receivers. I'll keep experimenting when I can. Open to any other ideas...
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post #4894 of 5372 Old 09-13-2019, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
No luck yet. I got the GoFanco Prophecy ProHDrepeat repeater and tried between Roku and AVR, then AVR and PJ.

Then I tried the GoFanco PRO-EDIDemul emulator, between both pairs of devices as above. This one has quite a few settings so there are more permutations to try out, but so far nothing has worked. Same problem. It sorta worked (once) but only when I set it to 4k HDR mode w/ 2ch audio instead of 7.1. Which...yep, not a great thing for someone with one of these receivers. I'll keep experimenting when I can. Open to any other ideas...
That's not the news I was hoping to get. Thanks for the update though. It's so frustrating knowing that when the receiver is taken out of the setup, there's no blank video.

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post #4895 of 5372 Old 09-14-2019, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quick question: does Audyssey roll off sub frequencies below 20Hz or leave them untouched?
Depending on the capability of the sub, Audyssey can EQ down to 10Hz.
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post #4896 of 5372 Old 09-14-2019, 12:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by haman View Post
Hi, I have a 3500H and used it for few months. For some reason, sometimes Audyssey is not enabled when I switched the unit on to play my sources. I had to manually go into Audio->Audyssey to enable it. Does anyone know why? Is it a memory leak or battery retention problem? My unit is switched off (from the power point) when not in use. I don't use stand by mode.
Thanks.

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This is set per source. Does this occur with the same source? With no power to the unit, settings are generally retained for at least 1-2 weeks.
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post #4897 of 5372 Old 09-14-2019, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Quick question: does Audyssey roll off sub frequencies below 20Hz or leave them untouched?
Depending on the capability of the sub, Audyssey can EQ down to 10Hz.
Thanks. But there's no way to see what the response or EQ looks like below 20Hz without using something like REW, correct? (Even the MultEQ app graph cuts off at 20Hz)
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post #4898 of 5372 Old 09-14-2019, 06:55 AM
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Regarding Bluetooth: is there a way to make the Denon only connect to my phone (Bluetooth device) if the Bluetooth input is selected? Ever since I paired my phone to the Denon, the first time I turn the Denon on, no matter what input I select, it automatically pairs and starts playing music from my phone.
The Anthem receiver I had before this would only pair/play when the Bluetooth input was selected.
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post #4899 of 5372 Old 09-14-2019, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Thanks. But there's no way to see what the response or EQ looks like below 20Hz without using something like REW, correct? (Even the MultEQ app graph cuts off at 20Hz)
Correct.

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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Regarding Bluetooth: is there a way to make the Denon only connect to my phone (Bluetooth device) if the Bluetooth input is selected? Ever since I paired my phone to the Denon, the first time I turn the Denon on, no matter what input I select, it automatically pairs and starts playing music from my phone.
The Anthem receiver I had before this would only pair/play when the Bluetooth input was selected.
Unpair the phone when not using it.
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post #4900 of 5372 Old 09-14-2019, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Unpair the phone when not using it.

That's what I ended up doing. Is it a known *issue* or just an odd interaction depending on phone model?
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post #4901 of 5372 Old 09-14-2019, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
That's what I ended up doing. Is it a known *issue* or just an odd interaction depending on phone model?
It's come up from time to time, so most likely the latter. At the very least, when finished streaming audio (Bluetooth or otherwise), ensure you STOP the stream using the remote rather than simply backing out of the music application.
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post #4902 of 5372 Old 09-14-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
That's not the news I was hoping to get. Thanks for the update though. It's so frustrating knowing that when the receiver is taken out of the setup, there's no blank video.

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I've also got an HDMI splitter (the one I was using before on the E-400), I pulled it out of the return box just to try. Also didn't work. I bet I can get it to work with the same setup I had on the old receiver (pass video direct to PJ and split audio off to AVR) but doing that means you lose the onscreen menu and I'm not a huge fan of that. Although I can always switch to another source without it to see the menu. Still, it's not ideal either because you'd need to buy one for every source. And since we still live in a world where you need like 4 devices to use w/ different apps to get 4k HDR, lossless audio, etc. that means you need 4 splitters. Nah.

This is really unfortunate. I'm down to order other equipment to try to see if anything changes. I've got an ATV 4k on the way along with a Sony X700, and if it still does the same thing with those then I'm unfortunately going to have to return the Denon and maybe try out Onkyo.

If any Denon reps are reading this, y'all should really be ashamed of having such an amateur-hour problem on receivers this expensive. Fix it already!
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post #4903 of 5372 Old 09-14-2019, 07:00 PM
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What is the quality difference between the 4500 and 6500? Is the monolithic design of the 6500 that much *better*?

My usage is strictly HT, so no music (other than occasional Bluetooth). I got a 6500 to replace my Anthem AVM 60 setup due to needing funds but am wondering if I shouldn't trade it in for a 4500 to pocket more money.
I'm running a 5.1.4 setup. High efficiency speakers (94dB+), max of 10ft distance from furthest speaker.

Thanks!
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post #4904 of 5372 Old 09-14-2019, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
What is the quality difference between the 4500 and 6500? Is the monolithic design of the 6500 that much *better*?

My usage is strictly HT, so no music (other than occasional Bluetooth). I got a 6500 to replace my Anthem AVM 60 setup due to needing funds but am wondering if I shouldn't trade it in for a 4500 to pocket more money.
I'm running a 5.1.4 setup. High efficiency speakers (94dB+), max of 10ft distance from furthest speaker.

Thanks!
If "Made in Japan" and dedicated "Dialog Enhancer" features are not important to you, then the X4500H would serve you just as well.
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post #4905 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 01:15 AM
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If "Made in Japan" and dedicated "Dialog Enhancer" features are not important to you, then the X4500H would serve you just as well.
Awesome. That'll pocket me back some good money by switching to the 4500. Thanks!
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post #4906 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 02:31 AM
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Psuedo-update on the Denon HDMI issue:

I tried creating a custom EDID as well using an EDID emulator, but don't feel like experimenting enough tonight to see if it will work - haven't even set it up correctly enough to get a picture through yet.

One thing I noticed is that the dropouts during jogging only happen in some apps. Vudu, for instance, is designed in such a way that, for whatever reason, it switches video modes when you go from play -> jog -> play. Prime Video, Netflix, and Youtube don't do this. So it's possible that an app update could at least alleviate the problem. I'm ok with a 5s delay when starting/stopping a movie (annoying for Youtube though) but not every time you skip/rewind. Some apps on some devices are going to be better at this. We'll see.

Another thing I noticed is that each time this dropout happens there is a faint click from the AVR. So it's doing something, but lord knows what. Maybe if we can figure that out we can get closer to eliminating the issue...
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post #4907 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
Psuedo-update on the Denon HDMI issue:



I tried creating a custom EDID as well using an EDID emulator, but don't feel like experimenting enough tonight to see if it will work - haven't even set it up correctly enough to get a picture through yet.



One thing I noticed is that the dropouts during jogging only happen in some apps. Vudu, for instance, is designed in such a way that, for whatever reason, it switches video modes when you go from play -> jog -> play. Prime Video, Netflix, and Youtube don't do this. So it's possible that an app update could at least alleviate the problem. I'm ok with a 5s delay when starting/stopping a movie (annoying for Youtube though) but not every time you skip/rewind. Some apps on some devices are going to be better at this. We'll see.



Another thing I noticed is that each time this dropout happens there is a faint click from the AVR. So it's doing something, but lord knows what. Maybe if we can figure that out we can get closer to eliminating the issue...
For me, it's 10 seconds of black screen, but I do get audio, whenever playing an HDR video. This is happening in Kodi and PLEX with my HDR rips, on my Nvidia Shield, and with the Netflix app. It also happens with the Netflix on my Xfinity 4k box, so I know it's not the Shield. Like I've said before, if I remove the receiver, and connect the Shield or Xfinity box directly to the projector, the video immediately comes on with the audio. If that's not proving it's the receiver, then I don't know what else to say. I wish my projector had ARC, then that could be a workaround.

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post #4908 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 08:30 AM
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If that's not proving it's the receiver, then I don't know what else to say.
Although in your experience this seems atypical any video format change requires some time during which video and or audio may be lost. This is a sufficiently annoying problem that a fix is part of HDMI 2.1. E.g. in my case a video format change in my display takes about 4s for a directly attached device. Adding my AVR changes that to about 8s. Now if the source device is sufficiently stupid that it changes video format while scrubbing or made other unnecessary, gratuitous video format changes I'd be inclined to blame the source device (or the app guidelines for that device).

You seem uninterested in changing your position based on the issues at play. If that's not the case then people might be motivated to work with you.
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post #4909 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 09:33 AM
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Although in your experience this seems atypical any video format change requires some time during which video and or audio may be lost. This is a sufficiently annoying problem that a fix is part of HDMI 2.1. E.g. in my case a video format change in my display takes about 4s for a directly attached device. Adding my AVR changes that to about 8s. Now if the source device is sufficiently stupid that it changes video format while scrubbing or made other unnecessary, gratuitous video format changes I'd be inclined to blame the source device (or the app guidelines for that device).

You seem uninterested in changing your position based on the issues at play. If that's not the case then people might be motivated to work with you.
You make it sound like I'm the only one with that "experience". There are at least 2 other members posting the same issue. You make it sound like I haven't done anything to back up my statement. I had the EXACT same setup with my Denon S710W, and it worked flawlessly with my Shield and Xfinity 4k box. Now one would have to say to themselves, what has changed since the issue started? A new Denon 3500 is the only thing that has changed in the setup. I've replaced all HDMI cables with Certified Premium Cables, and the issue is still there. If you have a logical theory as to why it isn't the new Denon, and why the S710W didn't have the issue, I'm all ears.

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post #4910 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 01:44 PM
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For me, it's 10 seconds of black screen, but I do get audio, whenever playing an HDR video. This is happening in Kodi and PLEX with my HDR rips, on my Nvidia Shield, and with the Netflix app. It also happens with the Netflix on my Xfinity 4k box, so I know it's not the Shield. Like I've said before, if I remove the receiver, and connect the Shield or Xfinity box directly to the projector, the video immediately comes on with the audio. If that's not proving it's the receiver, then I don't know what else to say. I wish my projector had ARC, then that could be a workaround.

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Same here, I totally agree. It's definitely the receiver. What I meant was that once the mode is switched (which is always accompanied by a 5-10s video delay while audio plays immediately), jogging back/forth will only create additional blanks in certain apps. For me w/ the Roku Ultra, Netflix can FF/RW without switching modes (causing the receiver to blank). Prime Video does as well. Vudu, OTOH, does not, and causes a blank every time you FF/RW.

And of course if I connect the Roku directly to the PJ none of this happens at all.
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post #4911 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 01:55 PM
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Same here, I totally agree. It's definitely the receiver.
...
And of course if I connect the Roku directly to the PJ none of this happens at all.
Unless it's your Roku. Plugging something directly into a display will tell you about basic function (does HDR work, does Dolby Vision work) it won't tell if the Roku has a bug triggered by the AVR EDID. This is why fiddling the EDID can fix a problem. For what it's worth I don't see your Vudu issue -- but I don't use a Roku. I'd suggest asking in your projector or Roku threads.
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post #4912 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Although in your experience this seems atypical any video format change requires some time during which video and or audio may be lost. This is a sufficiently annoying problem that a fix is part of HDMI 2.1. E.g. in my case a video format change in my display takes about 4s for a directly attached device. Adding my AVR changes that to about 8s. Now if the source device is sufficiently stupid that it changes video format while scrubbing or made other unnecessary, gratuitous video format changes I'd be inclined to blame the source device (or the app guidelines for that device).

You seem uninterested in changing your position based on the issues at play. If that's not the case then people might be motivated to work with you.
Do you have more info about the changes in HDMI 2.1? I.e. when that is expected and whether these receivers can benefit from that w/ a firmware update? If the next crop of receivers are the only ones with HDMI 2.1 support then I may just stick with my old AVR until then.

I get biglen's frustration, because the only thing in this chain creating the issue is the AVR. The source devices for sure can be smarter, but I think we're still a long time away from a uniform experience with full-featured devices & apps. Nowadays you still need a BR player for 3D, an ATV for streaming quality (except Youtube of course), a Shield for lossless audio, etc. etc. I won't hold my breath on that one.
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post #4913 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 02:24 PM
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Unless it's your Roku. Plugging something directly into a display will tell you about basic function (does HDR work, does Dolby Vision work) it won't tell if the Roku has a bug triggered by the AVR EDID. This is why fiddling the EDID can fix a problem. For what it's worth I don't see your Vudu issue -- but I don't use a Roku. I'd suggest asking in your projector or Roku threads.
Interesting. I'll definitely try it with the BR player and ATV expected this week. Based on what you said the EDID emulator sounds like it could be worth experimenting with some more. None of the built-in profiles fixed the issue but it has a capability to make custom profiles. Have you got any experience with this? I'd love some pointers on what to look out for if you do!
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post #4914 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
What is the quality difference between the 4500 and 6500? Is the monolithic design of the 6500 that much *better*?

My usage is strictly HT, so no music (other than occasional Bluetooth). I got a 6500 to replace my Anthem AVM 60 setup due to needing funds but am wondering if I shouldn't trade it in for a 4500 to pocket more money.
I'm running a 5.1.4 setup. High efficiency speakers (94dB+), max of 10ft distance from furthest speaker.

Thanks!
For me personally, I watch several movies a week, or more, and understanding the dialog can be difficult at times, so I'd take the 6500 with the "Dialog Enhancer" function (or similar function) such as I use on my 4520CI. Also I prefer "Built in Japan" over other places, even though that may not play as big a part as in the past.

Enjoy your setup

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post #4915 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
Do you have more info about the changes in HDMI 2.1?
Not beyond what everyone knows. QMS appears to be "cosmetic", Denon will introduce more HDMI 2.1 features next year, you have to have a compatible HDMI 2.1 display, devices with "flexible" HDMI subsystems may be upgradable to support QMS (and certain other high speed 2.1 features).

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post #4916 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 02:40 PM
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After running audyssey on my x3500h, my volume is too low. My sub is at -7.5db and front speakers are at -2.5db. I have to crank the volume to over 50% to be able to hear anything. How should I adjust my avr?

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post #4917 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 03:27 PM
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After running audyssey on my x3500h, my volume is too low. My sub is at -7.5db and front speakers are at -2.5db. I have to crank the volume to over 50% to be able to hear anything. How should I adjust my avr?

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What volume are you at to hear, and is it barely hear or good for use?

The sub and front speakers volume adjustment are in a very normal range.


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post #4918 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sd13 View Post
After running audyssey on my x3500h, my volume is too low. My sub is at -7.5db and front speakers are at -2.5db. I have to crank the volume to over 50% to be able to hear anything. How should I adjust my avr?

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Hi sd13, maybe you selected "no" to Dynamic Volume after running Audyssey. Try changing Dynamic Volume to "light" and set Reference Level Offset to 10dB or 15dB.

Menu > Audio > Audyssey > Dynamic Volume
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post #4919 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sd13 View Post
After running audyssey on my x3500h, my volume is too low. My sub is at -7.5db and front speakers are at -2.5db. I have to crank the volume to over 50% to be able to hear anything. How should I adjust my avr?

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The Denon AVRs use a logarithmic volume scale such that very little audio is heard below 50 with the average listening levels being 50-70 (ie. nothing wrong with your setup).
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post #4920 of 5372 Old 09-15-2019, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
Do you have more info about the changes in HDMI 2.1? I.e. when that is expected and whether these receivers can benefit from that w/ a firmware update? If the next crop of receivers are the only ones with HDMI 2.1 support then I may just stick with my old AVR until then.

I get biglen's frustration, because the only thing in this chain creating the issue is the AVR. The source devices for sure can be smarter, but I think we're still a long time away from a uniform experience with full-featured devices & apps. Nowadays you still need a BR player for 3D, an ATV for streaming quality (except Youtube of course), a Shield for lossless audio, etc. etc. I won't hold my breath on that one.
Major brand HDMI 2.1 AVRs won't start to be released until summer 2020. The only current model that can be hardware upgraded to HDMI 2.1 is the "flagship" X8500H.
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