"OFFICIAL" 2018 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 166 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4951 of 5405 Old 09-17-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
Have you carefully described your issue in your display (C9?) thread? The C9 is HDMI 2.1 so perhaps they can fake QMS if the HDCP handshakes completes within some bound.

I've had Denon's since the 4311 and HDMI before that. It's always taken time to complete a new resolution/format handshake. Longer since HDCP, longer if there are repeaters in the path. The the 3500 fits my expectations for handshake time.
I have not described the issue in the C9 thread, but will do so. Thanks for the suggestion!

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post #4952 of 5405 Old 09-17-2019, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete7874 View Post
I did try it by programming in a sequence, for example, 4 subsequent volume up/down commands, which raises/lowers the volume by 2 dB. While this works, there is a rather significant negative side effect - holding down the volume up/down buttons no longer increases/decreases the volume rapidly like it used to.

This is on my Harmony 650 remote. Not sure if other Harmony remotes behave the same way.
I don't have a Harmony but I know that with other universal remotes you can program different functions for short-press vs. long-press. Harmony doesn't have that?
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post #4953 of 5405 Old 09-17-2019, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I don't have a Harmony but I know that with other universal remotes you can program different functions for short-press vs. long-press. Harmony doesn't have that?
This may be possible on some of the Harmony Touch remotes, but not on my 650.

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post #4954 of 5405 Old 09-17-2019, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I don't have a Harmony but I know that with other universal remotes you can program different functions for short-press vs. long-press. Harmony doesn't have that?


The later Harmony models (hub based) do have short and long press separate commands. You can assign macros to any of the buttons. I have an Elite and every hard button have short/long press commands.
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post #4955 of 5405 Old 09-17-2019, 06:55 PM
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So new update ,improves overall stability and performance of the unit and updates heos ..just In case anyone cant find post 5 as it took me a while looking..btw thank you again guys
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post #4956 of 5405 Old 09-17-2019, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
For the 3 of you having these 10S video dropouts have you first removed all of your source devices first then reinstalling one at a time to see if it's a combined issue with both the receiver and a particular source device? HDMI is an end to end protocol so best to start at the back end and work your way up to the sink device. Concentrate on the commonalities that all 3 of your setups share as well i.e. PJ's and similar source devices. It is obviously something with the receiver in the loop but HDMI issues are almost always based on a combination of devices and settings. This is the world of HDMI for you. An ever changing protocol no one actually needed in the first place.
Yep. I've tried with just one device on different ports, and have also tried a couple of different power on/connection sequences.

Yesterday I hooked up a Sony X-700 and it had the same issue. However, it did another weird thing in the Vudu app - after it switches to HDR mode, it *stays* in HDR mode, even when I return to the Vudu menu which should be SDR. This makes the menu look horrible and washed out BUT, on the plus side, while watching HDR movies it stops doing the 10s dropout because it never switches modes. So that's a sort of plus? Got the ATV 4k today as well as 2 different HDMI-to-fiber cables which I'll try as well.

Honestly, at this point, considering how widespread issues like this seem to be, I'm thinking I might just try and live with it. The X4500 is a great receiver otherwise and I might be happier just to accept that if I want a bitchin' HT system instead of a TV with its built-in speakers, that this headache of constant fiddling and weird equipment bugs is just part and parcel. Else I'll go to the trouble of returning the Denon, pick up an Onkyo, realize it has the same issue, then return that and re-purchase the Denon (if it's even still available at that price). A friend of mine has a nice mid-range Onkyo AVR he just picked up that he might let me borrow. If that doesn't work out it might be easier to just let it go...

I say that, as I unpack my 7th - yes, 7th remote.
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post #4957 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
I tried Enhanced HDMI on and off. I've tried the Xfinity box as the only thing hooked up to the receiver, and I've tried the Shield as the only thing hooked up to the receiver. All have the same result- 10 seconds of black screen, then the picture comes on.

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Hey biglen and others having this issue:

So I'm happy to report that I found a "good enough" solution. May not be what you want to hear depending on your setup. Once I got the AppleTV 4K set up I logged into all my accounts and tried out a few movies. No issues! The ATV is sort of cheating because it just outputs a 4K HDR signal no matter what you're watching, so there is never any video mode switching required. A downside of this is that you can't nerd out and check your TV/PJ stats to see if the source you're watching is really HDR or not, as the ATV is always telling the device it's HDR. But that's not such a big deal. The other question I suppose is how the ATV handles re-mapping SDR content since, even on content I know for a fact is natively SDR, there is a pronounced difference when switching the PJ between HDR/SDR modes. So the ATV is doing something to remap the colorspace. For me, it's whatever. It all looks good as far as I'm concerned and I'm not one to obsess over analytically perfect colors.


Being that you have a Shield, this may not work out for you but I figured I'd share. Perhaps you can force the Shield to do a similar thing? Since the ATV has a generally more polished UI vs. Roku, and supposedly the largest collection of 4k/HDR titles on iTunes, it's going to serve the majority of the home theater duty vs. the Roku. The Vudu app on the Roku is miles better and, of course, there's no Google Play app on the ATV but...c'est la vie. I can live with it as this solves the day-to-day annoyances well enough.

I will continue to experiment with EDID emulation, and I'll try out the aforementioned cables and report back.
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post #4958 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
Yep. I've tried with just one device on different ports, and have also tried a couple of different power on/connection sequences.

Yesterday I hooked up a Sony X-700 and it had the same issue. However, it did another weird thing in the Vudu app - after it switches to HDR mode, it *stays* in HDR mode, even when I return to the Vudu menu which should be SDR. This makes the menu look horrible and washed out BUT, on the plus side, while watching HDR movies it stops doing the 10s dropout because it never switches modes. So that's a sort of plus? Got the ATV 4k today as well as 2 different HDMI-to-fiber cables which I'll try as well.

Honestly, at this point, considering how widespread issues like this seem to be, I'm thinking I might just try and live with it. The X4500 is a great receiver otherwise and I might be happier just to accept that if I want a bitchin' HT system instead of a TV with its built-in speakers, that this headache of constant fiddling and weird equipment bugs is just part and parcel. Else I'll go to the trouble of returning the Denon, pick up an Onkyo, realize it has the same issue, then return that and re-purchase the Denon (if it's even still available at that price). A friend of mine has a nice mid-range Onkyo AVR he just picked up that he might let me borrow. If that doesn't work out it might be easier to just let it go...

I say that, as I unpack my 7th - yes, 7th remote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
Hey biglen and others having this issue:

So I'm happy to report that I found a "good enough" solution. May not be what you want to hear depending on your setup. Once I got the AppleTV 4K set up I logged into all my accounts and tried out a few movies. No issues! The ATV is sort of cheating because it just outputs a 4K HDR signal no matter what you're watching, so there is never any video mode switching required. A downside of this is that you can't nerd out and check your TV/PJ stats to see if the source you're watching is really HDR or not, as the ATV is always telling the device it's HDR. But that's not such a big deal. The other question I suppose is how the ATV handles re-mapping SDR content since, even on content I know for a fact is natively SDR, there is a pronounced difference when switching the PJ between HDR/SDR modes. So the ATV is doing something to remap the colorspace. For me, it's whatever. It all looks good as far as I'm concerned and I'm not one to obsess over analytically perfect colors.


Being that you have a Shield, this may not work out for you but I figured I'd share. Perhaps you can force the Shield to do a similar thing? Since the ATV has a generally more polished UI vs. Roku, and supposedly the largest collection of 4k/HDR titles on iTunes, it's going to serve the majority of the home theater duty vs. the Roku. The Vudu app on the Roku is miles better and, of course, there's no Google Play app on the ATV but...c'est la vie. I can live with it as this solves the day-to-day annoyances well enough.

I will continue to experiment with EDID emulation, and I'll try out the aforementioned cables and report back.
Thanks for the updates Sergey. I have Amazon Prime, so I ended up ordering a Pioneer VSX-LX503 because it has free returns. The issue is a little bit better with the Pioneer, in that I only get 5 seconds of blank screen, instead of 10 with the Denon. So the Pioneer must have something in the processor that handles HDR better. I posted in the LX503 forum about my issue, and I'm hoping someone knows of a setting that can eliminate the issue all together.



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post #4959 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by malmstump View Post
So new update ,improves overall stability and performance of the unit and updates heos ..just In case anyone cant find post 5 as it took me a while looking..btw thank you again guys

I believe the update is for Amazon Music in HEOS. I got an email yesterday announcing Prime Music HD (Hi-res) audio and I believe this updates HEOS to be able to play the new Amazon format. Seems like a viable option as the price is a little better than Tidal.
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post #4960 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
The other question I suppose is how the ATV handles re-mapping SDR content
You'll find information about this (and most other ATV topics) in the [AppleTV owners thread].

I might type 2K for 1080p.
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post #4961 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
Honestly, at this point, considering how widespread issues like this seem to be, I'm thinking I might just try and live with it. The X4500 is a great receiver otherwise and I might be happier just to accept that if I want a bitchin' HT system instead of a TV with its built-in speakers, that this headache of constant fiddling and weird equipment bugs is just part and parcel. Else I'll go to the trouble of returning the Denon, pick up an Onkyo, realize it has the same issue, then return that and re-purchase the Denon (if it's even still available at that price). A friend of mine has a nice mid-range Onkyo AVR he just picked up that he might let me borrow. If that doesn't work out it might be easier to just let it go...
Do you have Video Conversion ON or OFF?
The Video Conversion feature is set for each source.
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post #4962 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post

Honestly, at this point, considering how widespread issues like this seem to be, I'm thinking I might just try and live with it. The X4500 is a great receiver otherwise and I might be happier just to accept that if I want a bitchin' HT system instead of a TV with its built-in speakers, that this headache of constant fiddling and weird equipment bugs is just part and parcel. Else I'll go to the trouble of returning the Denon, pick up an Onkyo, realize it has the same issue, then return that and re-purchase the Denon (if it's even still available at that price). A friend of mine has a nice mid-range Onkyo AVR he just picked up that he might let me borrow. If that doesn't work out it might be easier to just let it go...



I say that, as I unpack my 7th - yes, 7th remote.

I have a 3500H arriving today that is replacing an Onkyo due to something that annoys me with no workaround if I want to run it in direct mode. That said, I had no idea there was this video delay issue that been described here. So now I’m a bit worried about the change.

So a question to you with the ATV4K... have you tried running it in 4K SDR mode with match dynamic range and frame rate on? I don’t like the other apps look with forced pseudo-HDR so that isn’t something I would do. If you’ve tried it, does it have the delay in Netflix, Prime, Hulu, and Plex (if using)?



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post #4963 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 08:14 AM
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Last night, while installing a new TV (Sony 77A9G) I noticed that my X6500H sometimes after turning it ON, I don't get OSD at all. No volume bar, setup screen, info, nothing. This happens with 1080p and 4K signals. When this happens I need to turn it OFF and ON again. Changing inputs does not fix the issue. Does anyone have had this same issue? What should I do to fix it?

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post #4964 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Last night, while installing a new TV (Sony 77A9G) I noticed that my X6500H sometimes after turning it ON, I don't get OSD at all. No volume bar, setup screen, info, nothing. This happens with 1080p and 4K signals. When this happens I need to turn it OFF and ON again. Changing inputs does not fix the issue. Does anyone have had this same issue? What should I do to fix it?
Is the smart menu ON in the receiver?
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post #4965 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Do you have Video Conversion ON or OFF?

The Video Conversion feature is set for each source.
So while you have the source selected, then you go into that menu, and that turns it off or on for that particular source, correct ?

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post #4966 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Last night, while installing a new TV (Sony 77A9G) I noticed that my X6500H sometimes after turning it ON, I don't get OSD at all. No volume bar, setup screen, info, nothing. This happens with 1080p and 4K signals. When this happens I need to turn it OFF and ON again. Changing inputs does not fix the issue. Does anyone have had this same issue? What should I do to fix it?
The best way to mitigate HDMI handshake issues is to power on the HDMI devices in a specific order with a short delay between each power on, generally:

TV, pause 5 seconds, AVR, pause 5 seconds, source.
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post #4967 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 09:19 AM
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TV, pause 5 seconds, AVR, pause 5 seconds, source.
How does that work with sources such as Roku that are on 24x7?

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post #4968 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
Honestly, at this point, considering how widespread issues like this seem to be, I'm thinking I might just try and live with it. The X4500 is a great receiver otherwise and I might be happier just to accept that if I want a bitchin' HT system instead of a TV with its built-in speakers, that this headache of constant fiddling and weird equipment bugs is just part and parcel. Else I'll go to the trouble of returning the Denon, pick up an Onkyo, realize it has the same issue, then return that and re-purchase the Denon (if it's even still available at that price). A friend of mine has a nice mid-range Onkyo AVR he just picked up that he might let me borrow. If that doesn't work out it might be easier to just let it go...

I say that, as I unpack my 7th - yes, 7th remote.
I wish I had something helpful to say but, honestly, I'm just glad I'm not alone! Life was much simpler when I had my 1080p tv and Vizio soundbar. Each improvement I've made has introduced more headaches. I think it's just the nature of the beast (or at least that's what I'm telling myself).
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post #4969 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 09:27 AM
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I wish I had something helpful to say but, honestly, I'm just glad I'm not alone! Life was much simpler when I had my 1080p tv and Vizio soundbar. Each improvement I've made has introduced more headaches. I think it's just the nature of the beast (or at least that's what I'm telling myself).


The A/V industry is somewhat shooting themselves in the foot by pointlessly(for the consumer) complicating things.
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post #4970 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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How does that work with sources such as Roku that are on 24x7?
The same. You're not actually selecting the Roku until after the AVR is powered ON and a few seconds have passed.
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post #4971 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 10:00 AM
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The same. You're not actually selecting the Roku until after the AVR is powered ON and a few seconds have passed.
Oh, I thought you meant "power on" the source, not just switch AVR to the source.

If Roku was the last source I was watching before powering down the AVR, then upon powering AVR up, technically it'll already be on Roku as the source, so I would not be selecting it again.

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post #4972 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh, I thought you meant "power on" the source, not just switch AVR to the source.

If Roku was the last source I was watching before powering down the AVR, then upon powering AVR up, technically it'll already be on Roku as the source, so I would not be selecting it again.
Try doing an HDMI HDCP reset which amounts to powering off all HDMI devices in the chain (ie. TV, AVR, sources), unplugging their respective power and HDMI cables for 10 minutes. Connect all back up and power on in the previously mentioned order.

Regarding the Roku specifically, the Roku 4 features a power off after 30 minutes of inactivity setting.
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post #4973 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 04:16 PM
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Amazon Music is now available in Brazil. The HEOS app does not show Amazon Music as a Music Source if the country associated with the HEOS account is Brazilian. My question to you: what is the appropriated channel to submit a request for the Denon/HEOS team to enable Amazon Music as a Music Source for Brazilian HEOS accounts as well? Thank you!
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post #4974 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 05:30 PM
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The Pioneer Elite LX503 that I bought, is now working perfectly. I was ready to pack it up and send it back, and I remembered someone saying that the HDMI ports next to the HDMI Out are the best to use. Earlier when I tried the LX503, I used an input that was 3 down from the HDMI Out. Now that I used the one right next to the HDMI Out, I'm getting zero black screen when playing HDR. I tried that with the X3500, with no luck. I guess the Pioneer handles HDR better than the X3500, so I'm sending the X3500 back, and keeping the LX503. It was $50 more, but the extra $50 is well worth the headaches I had with the HDR and the X3500. Thanks you to everyone who tried helping me with my issue.

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post #4975 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Do you have Video Conversion ON or OFF?
The Video Conversion feature is set for each source.
Interesting...on my Denon I only had to set it once, it keeps the setting for each source. I have video conversion set to "On." I've tried off as well and it didn't help - it just added the 10s blank every time I entered or exited the menu, so that's no good.

Biglen, that's great news! My one reservation about switching is that Audyssey XT32 is supposed to be pretty great - though I've heard good things about new Onkyo's as well. That said I've got a UMIK-1 so I could probably achieve better results with some fiddling.
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post #4976 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ionblue View Post
So a question to you with the ATV4K... have you tried running it in 4K SDR mode with match dynamic range and frame rate on? I don’t like the other apps look with forced pseudo-HDR so that isn’t something I would do. If you’ve tried it, does it have the delay in Netflix, Prime, Hulu, and Plex (if using)?
Haven't tried but I can. I used the framerate matching on the Roku and it introduces an additional delay. I mean, it's the same delay but it happens more often - now when watching SDR content too which is usually at a different framerate. I'll get an opportunity to fiddle with the ATV more tomorrow and I can try that.

I don't know if I'd call it "forced" HDR. I.e. if I had it in SDR mode and switched the PJ to HDR, everything looks overcooked and washed out. On the ATV everything still looks normal even though it's outputting an HDR signal, so it must be doing some remapping. As mentioned I'm sure there is some question about the accuracy of the remapping, but it looks fine to me so far.
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post #4977 of 5405 Old 09-18-2019, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Last night, while installing a new TV (Sony 77A9G) I noticed that my X6500H sometimes after turning it ON, I don't get OSD at all. No volume bar, setup screen, info, nothing. This happens with 1080p and 4K signals. When this happens I need to turn it OFF and ON again. Changing inputs does not fix the issue. Does anyone have had this same issue? What should I do to fix it?
Yep, I get the same issue with my Denon X4300 and Sony X930E TV. Only happens about once a month or so and I have to either power the receiver off and on or for the first time it happened actually pull my receivers power cord for a few minutes. That first time just powering it down and back on didn't correct it. I use a Harmony Companion with the Hub as well.

Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html
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post #4978 of 5405 Old 09-19-2019, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
The Pioneer Elite LX503 that I bought, is now working perfectly. I was ready to pack it up and send it back, and I remembered someone saying that the HDMI ports next to the HDMI Out are the best to use. Earlier when I tried the LX503, I used an input that was 3 down from the HDMI Out. Now that I used the one right next to the HDMI Out, I'm getting zero black screen when playing HDR. I tried that with the X3500, with no luck. I guess the Pioneer handles HDR better than the X3500, so I'm sending the X3500 back, and keeping the LX503. It was $50 more, but the extra $50 is well worth the headaches I had with the HDR and the X3500. Thanks you to everyone who tried helping me with my issue.

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Good job and congrats on fixing the issue. For some perspective this is not a widespread issue with Denon/Marantz receivers. I use the input 5 slots from my Denon's closest output for full 4K HDR playback and there's no dropouts whatsoever. Plus I am in and out of several home audio websites where Denon receivers get heavy talk and support for several years now and this hasn't been an issue that a cable or setting change hasn't fixed the majority of the time.
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post #4979 of 5405 Old 09-19-2019, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
Interesting...on my Denon I only had to set it once, it keeps the setting for each source. I have video conversion set to "On." I've tried off as well and it didn't help - it just added the 10s blank every time I entered or exited the menu, so that's no good.
That added blank screen time when changing a video conversion or amp assign settting then backing out of the settings is totally normal. You are correct that video conversion setting changes are not source specific. They are universal



Quote:
My one reservation about switching is that Audyssey XT32 is supposed to be pretty great - though I've heard good things about new Onkyo's as well. That said I've got a UMIK-1 so I could probably achieve better results with some fiddling.
Unfortunately the only thing you're going to find with a UMIK-1,REW and an Onkyo is how bad YPAO RSC is.

Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html
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post #4980 of 5405 Old 09-19-2019, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
That added blank screen time when changing a video conversion or amp assign settting then backing out of the settings is totally normal.
Yes, that happened as well. With video conversion off, however, the dropout happened every time I entered or exited the menu regardless of whether I changed any settings. If that's not normal maybe I have a faulty unit.
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