"OFFICIAL" 2018 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 167 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4981 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
Yes, that happened as well. With video conversion off, however, the dropout happened every time I entered or exited the menu regardless of whether I changed any settings. If that's not normal maybe I have a faulty unit.
Like I said that's normal. It's only with video conversion set to On that there's the direct overlay and no several second blackout when exiting settings. This is for those without the 10S issue you 3 have been dealing with however but I don't want other owners to think they have a similar issue when they simply have the video conversion setting turned off. The dropout on my Denon is about a 3 or 4 count per each backing out button I press. There's also no practical reason to have this setting off either.
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post #4982 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
Haven't tried but I can. I used the framerate matching on the Roku and it introduces an additional delay. I mean, it's the same delay but it happens more often - now when watching SDR content too which is usually at a different framerate. I'll get an opportunity to fiddle with the ATV more tomorrow and I can try that.



I don't know if I'd call it "forced" HDR. I.e. if I had it in SDR mode and switched the PJ to HDR, everything looks overcooked and washed out. On the ATV everything still looks normal even though it's outputting an HDR signal, so it must be doing some remapping. As mentioned I'm sure there is some question about the accuracy of the remapping, but it looks fine to me so far.


No need to try it out. I got things working as I like and don’t see any long dropouts. At least not this morning. Last night was another story. I was seeing all kinds of dropouts and syncing issues which appear to have been from specific settings on both my TV (Samsung 75” Q90R) and the AVR.

And I’m sure you’d all get a chuckle with one of the issues I thought I was having. Figured that out when I woke up this morning. Definitely a DOH moment.

Now I need to figure out why my Harmony One remote is controlling things it shouldn’t be when on a source. It’s acting like a combined remote on any given device. Meaning when I select the TV device on it, it’s also controlling the AVR and the cable box when all it should be doing is controlling the TV. It’s bizarre as hell and wasn’t doing that with the Onkyo.

All that said, this thing sounds great with only a manual setup with my SPL meter. Going to dive into Audyssey today while my dogs aren’t around so they don’t freak out.

Oh and note to self: probably not a good idea to drink margaritas when trying to setup a new AVR.


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post #4983 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Good job and congrats on fixing the issue. For some perspective this is not a widespread issue with Denon/Marantz receivers. I use the input 5 slots from my Denon's closest output for full 4K HDR playback and there's no dropouts whatsoever. Plus I am in and out of several home audio websites where Denon receivers get heavy talk and support for several years now and this hasn't been an issue that a cable or setting change hasn't fixed the majority of the time.
Maybe my X3500 is defective then? Why else would the Pioneer work properly, and the X3500 isn't?

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post #4984 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 09:15 AM
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Well that totally sucked 3 hours out of my day! I got my remote issues sorted out or at least to a point where things behave the way I expect. I had to turn off CEC on the receiver, but on in the TV and Apple TV.

Needless to say I haven’t had a chance to dig into the audio calibration yet. That brings me to my next question - should I use some, none, or all the features in Audyssey? I can’t run it at the moment due to some extraneous sounds that will affect it. At the very least I’d like to run the subwoofer setup as I have 2 and I doubt their levels are correct.



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post #4985 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 09:34 AM
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I was just wandering if the recent update has removed the DSU surround parameter "Center Spread" on D+M's 2018 models as it's apparently no longer part of Dolby's DSU specifications?

It is no longer present on D+M's 2019 models which seems like a strange omission but can be confirmed looking through the 2019 user manuals.
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post #4986 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ionblue View Post
Well that totally sucked 3 hours out of my day! I got my remote issues sorted out or at least to a point where things behave the way I expect. I had to turn off CEC on the receiver, but on in the TV and Apple TV.

Needless to say I haven’t had a chance to dig into the audio calibration yet. That brings me to my next question - should I use some, none, or all the features in Audyssey? I can’t run it at the moment due to some extraneous sounds that will affect it. At the very least I’d like to run the subwoofer setup as I have 2 and I doubt their levels are correct.



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Get the app($20, well worth it), start off by limiting correction to about 500 Hz and below, turn off Dynamic Eq, Dynamic Volume(should be off already), Audyssey LFC(default should be off). Experiment from there, or don't. If the bass sounds anemic, try turning up the subwoofers about 3 db, or until satisfied, sometimes Audyssey gets the bass too low. The next step would be turning MRC on and off and sticking with what sounds best for you. Anything after that is optional.

If you choose to down the Audyssey wormhole:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...d-part-ii.html

Audyssey App:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56565524

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post #4987 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Get the app($20, well worth it), start off by limiting correction to about 500 Hz and below, turn off Dynamic Eq, Dynamic Volume(should be off already), Audyssey LFC(default should be off). Experiment from there, or don't. If the bass sounds anemic, try turning up the subwoofers about 3 db, or until satisfied, sometimes Audyssey gets the bass too low. The next step would be turning MRC on and off and sticking with what sounds best for you. Anything after that is optional.


Thanks for the advice. I’ll get the app as suggested. One other question - I physically measured distance to speakers from main position like I’ve always done, but I see some folks say NOT to do that and let auto setup do it. What’s your take on that?


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post #4988 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ionblue View Post
Thanks for the advice. I’ll get the app as suggested. One other question - I physically measured distance to speakers from main position like I’ve always done, but I see some folks say NOT to do that and let auto setup do it. What’s your take on that?


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I'll tell you what, back before Audyssey/Auto Setup, I would measure perfectly, and the sweet spot was NEVER where it should have been. My first version of Audyssey back in the day, sweet spot right where it should be.
So, let the Auto Setup do the measurements.
Btw, it will be "wrong" with subwoofers, as what Auto Setup is measuring is the delay, not the actual distance, and subwoofers introduce a little delay in their electronics, so they appear further away than they physically are. Go with it.

Btw, I edited the original post as you were doing yours, there are links now to the Audyssey thread and the App FAQ now if you're interested.
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post #4989 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 09:54 AM
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I'll tell you what, back before Audyssey/Auto Setup, I would measure perfectly, and the sweet spot was NEVER where it should have been. My first version of Audyssey back in the day, sweet spot right where it should be.

So, let the Auto Setup do the measurements.

Btw, it will be "wrong" with subwoofers, as what Auto Setup is measuring is the delay, not the actual distance, and subwoofers introduce a little delay in their electronics, so they appear further away than they physically are. Go with it.



Btw, I edited the original post as you were doing yours, there are links now to the Audyssey thread and the App FAQ now if you're interested.

That seems to be the consensus. I appreciate you taking the time to point me in the right direction. This is definitely the most complex receiver I’ve ever had. Should be interesting!

Thanks again.


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post #4990 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Well that totally sucked 3 hours out of my day! I got my remote issues sorted out or at least to a point where things behave the way I expect. I had to turn off CEC on the receiver, but on in the TV and Apple TV.

Needless to say I haven’t had a chance to dig into the audio calibration yet. That brings me to my next question - should I use some, none, or all the features in Audyssey? I can’t run it at the moment due to some extraneous sounds that will affect it. At the very least I’d like to run the subwoofer setup as I have 2 and I doubt their levels are correct.

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Note that Audyssey will run on the speakers and sub (ie. no separate sub setup) and you must do at least 3 mic positions, although all 8 are recommended so as to provide more data to Audyssey. Most will want Dynamic EQ = ON with Dynamic Volume/LFC = OFF (except for night time listening when you don't want to disturb others in the house).
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post #4991 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 01:31 PM
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Get the app($20, well worth it), start off by limiting correction to about 500 Hz and below, turn off Dynamic Eq, Dynamic Volume(should be off already), Audyssey LFC(default should be off). Experiment from there, or don't. If the bass sounds anemic, try turning up the subwoofers about 3 db, or until satisfied, sometimes Audyssey gets the bass too low. The next step would be turning MRC on and off and sticking with what sounds best for you. Anything after that is optional.

Well that was certainly interesting. I did all 8 positions. And by “500 Hz and below” you’re talking about the output curve and using the slider to move each down to that. Yes?

It set my mains to large and Full Band. Should I change them to small and set a crossover point? That’s how I normally do it.

And thanks for the links. I’ll give those a good look.
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post #4992 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 01:37 PM
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Well that was certainly interesting. I did all 8 positions. And by “500 Hz and below” you’re talking about the output curve and using the slider to move each down to that. Yes?

It set my mains to large and Full Band. Should I change them to small and set a crossover point? That’s how I normally do it.

And thanks for the links. I’ll give those a good look.
Yes, assuming you have decent subwoofers, they will do a better job. Change to small, and raise the crossover to 80 Hz.
And, yes on the first one, too. That means it will equalize the bass which is most room dependent, while leaving everything else untouched. This is also a personal preference thing, you can also do a full range correction if you like.

If you have any more Audyssey questions, you may want to ask them in one of the Audyssey threads I linked.

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post #4993 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 01:40 PM
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Yes, assuming you have decent subwoofers, they will do a better job. Change to small, and raise the crossover to 80 Hz.

And, yes on the first one, too. That means it will equalize the bass which is most room dependent, while leaving everything else untouched. This is also a personal preference thing, you can also do a full range correction if you like.

Yep. Two Klipsch R-10. They’re barely breaking a sweat. I pulled them both up 3db and it sounds better. May bring them up more once I fiddle. But damn! This is sounding pretty amazing.

Thanks again!


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post #4994 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 01:45 PM
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Yes, assuming you have decent subwoofers, they will do a better job. Change to small, and raise the crossover to 80 Hz.

And, yes on the first one, too. That means it will equalize the bass which is most room dependent, while leaving everything else untouched. This is also a personal preference thing, you can also do a full range correction if you like.



If you have any more Audyssey questions, you may want to ask them in one of the Audyssey threads I linked.

Hmmm. It set my center crossover to 40Hz. Should I change them all to 80? 40 seems a bit low but what do I know.


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post #4995 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sergey Feingold View Post
Yes, that happened as well. With video conversion off, however, the dropout happened every time I entered or exited the menu regardless of whether I changed any settings. If that's not normal maybe I have a faulty unit.
Those normal momentary dropouts when exiting the settings menu are the exact kind of dropouts I've been getting when watching content through my AVR. With some help from a friend, I will be replacing my x-3500 with an x-3600. Hopefully the dropouts that have plagued my X-3500 are just due to a malfunction with the unit I have and won't be an issue with the x-3600. Other than that issue I've had, I love the sound that the AVR produces with my speakers and the overall feature set. Fingers crossed.

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post #4996 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 02:13 PM
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Hmmm. It set my center crossover to 40Hz. Should I change them all to 80? 40 seems a bit low but what do I know.


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Yes. Audyssey doesn't set the crossovers, Denon does. 80 Hz is a safe bet. Some people like to fiddle. I like to do as little as possible, and enjoy my music. Like your mains, the subwoofers will be able to do a better job, so let them.

I should have mentioned the crossovers in the first post, but, tbh, I forgot as it's been a while since I have done a calibration myself.

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post #4997 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 02:56 PM
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Yes. Audyssey doesn't set the crossovers, Denon does. 80 Hz is a safe bet. Some people like to fiddle. I like to do as little as possible, and enjoy my music. Like your mains, the subwoofers will be able to do a better job, so let them.



I should have mentioned the crossovers in the first post, but, tbh, I forgot as it's been a while since I have done a calibration myself.

No worries man. You’ve been a great help! I haven’t listened to any music yet, but I’ll throw some vinyl at it later and see how it goes.


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post #4998 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 05:08 PM
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I am considering a 2018 Denon and trying to find out the max bit-rate and kHz sampling it can receive on its built-in Amazon Music ap.

Anyone with a Denon that has a built-in Amazon and who has the new Amazon Music HD-lossless subscription mind checking what bit-rate and sample kHz capability it shows for the Denon built-in Amazon Music. When you run Amazon Music with HD you can enable stream quality information. It will state 3 things: that song's max rate, your device's max rate and what rate it is currently being delivered. I am wondering about the middle, device capability, for Denons with built in Amazon Music.

If people do check, please list what Denon model also in case there is a difference in models.
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post #4999 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 07:50 PM
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The one thing I miss about music on my onkyo 818
That i cant get in my x4500 is tone control
With audessey on and dyn eq on ...I wonder if marantz have the same sound signature or can have tone control with audessey and yes i know this x4500 is the same as the 7013 minus hdam ..
Any tricks with disabling the audessey and use graphic eq ?

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post #5000 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 07:53 PM
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Maybe my X3500 is defective then? Why else would the Pioneer work properly, and the X3500 isn't?

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I honestly have no clue. You stated the Pio was acting similarly until you went to an HDMI input closer to the output. My guess is if you gave your Denon to someone with a completely different setup from source to sink the issue might well go away. Doesn't absolve the receivers part in it with your particular setup though but HDMI issues are very rarely caused by a single device.

It's called an end to end protocol for a a reason and actually operates on the edge of failure by design. In this case it might be a combination of that and a firmware change. These mess with HDMI, ARC,CEC all the time. The fix is then another firmware upgrade to fix the one that was meant to fix something else but then broke something else. You get the picture. It's very rarely black and white.

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post #5001 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 08:02 PM
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I honestly have no clue. You stated the Pio was acting similarly until you went to an HDMI input closer to the output. My guess is if you gave your Denon to someone with a completely different setup from source to sink the issue might well go away. Doesn't absolve the receivers part in it with your particular setup though but HDMI issues are very rarely caused by a single device.

It's called an end to end protocol for a a reason and actually operates on the edge of failure by design. In this case it might be a combination of that and a firmware change. These mess with HDMI, ARC,CEC all the time. The fix is then another firmware upgrade to fix the one that was meant to fix something else but then broke something else. You get the picture. It's very rarely black and white.
Everything worked fine on my old S710W too, so it must be something Denon changed in their newer receivers, or like I said, maybe my receiver is defective.

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post #5002 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 08:07 PM
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We've had an X3500H for about 3 weeks now, changed from a Pioneer VSX-1131 with MCACC that developed a problem and was returned.

I must say, the audio quality sounds very noticeably better and the surround effects of both movies and music are much more pronounced.

Dynamic EQ does a great job making music sound good even at low volume levels.

Today my partner said unprompted that she doesn't need to adjust the volume during TV shows as much anymore either, even though we have Dynamic Volume disabled. I speculate that could be because of Dynamic EQ as we don't usually watch TV super loud.

Audyssey XT32 has done a great job with my annoyingly asymmetrical room layout, and my sub sounds more "full" and integrated with the other speakers, although I have changed the location of the sub since changing AVRs so it's hard for me to say how much of that improvement is as a result of Audyssey.

The only negatives I would mention are that I find the volume overlay a bit too intrusive with the black background and the silly ECO thing, and stays on the screen longer than I'd like, and the volume controls are too slow with single presses and too fast when you hold the button. Also I would like it if it had the PCM frequency in the Info overlay. You can access that information but it's buried in the menus.

Also it would be nice to have a larger volume display on the front screen (it's tiny!), but all AVRs seem to make that info very small for some stupid reason.

DTS:Virtual X, which I was interested to hear after reading the specs, was surprisingly bad sounding, sounds very unnatural and metallic to my ears and I wouldn't use it under any circumstances really.

I'd be interested to see if Dolby Virtual Height that is on the X3600H is any better, but if it's anything like DTS:Virtual X then I'm very happy I didn't spend the extra money for the X3600H as I don't need the extra channels.

Actually thinking about it now it might sound bad because I think Audyssey has to be disabled when you use DTS:Virtual X.

Also if I'm being fussy, the remote is a lot larger than I'd like, and the volume buttons are a bit too difficult to find by feel without looking.

But those are all minor things and no product is perfect (unfortunately ).

The Pioneer drove me crazy with clicking relays all the time, so I'm very happy there's none of that with this Denon, and it has been rock solid.

Also the Denon is quicker and more reliable switching audio modes (I have a HTPC with lots of mixed audio formats, and switch between them regularly). On the Pioneer I used to have a process of hitting stop, then play the new file with different audio settings because sometimes the Pioneer would not notice the change. That mucking around seems to be unnecessary with the Denon.

I'd also like to commend Denon for allowing you to factory reset your AVR if necessary to the original firmware. There's no valid reason that firmware upgrades should be a game of Russian roulette like on my LG OLED and Samsung phone.

Very happy with the switch overall.
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post #5003 of 5676 Old 09-19-2019, 08:23 PM
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Everything worked fine on my old S710W too, so it must be something Denon changed in their newer receivers, or like I said, maybe my receiver is defective.

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That means absolutely nothing based on how fast the tech is changing right now. That 710 might as well be a 20 year old receiver.

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post #5004 of 5676 Old 09-20-2019, 05:13 AM
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That means absolutely nothing based on how fast the tech is changing right now. That 710 might as well be a 20 year old receiver.
I don't understand your point. Wouldn't an older piece of equipment have a better chance at struggling with today's technology, then a newer one would?

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post #5005 of 5676 Old 09-20-2019, 05:30 AM
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I just got the x3500h. Can anybody explain to me the diffrence between the bypass and game output settings ?
My x3500h does not have the bypass option and I dont want to get additional input lag while gaming. Isnt it strange that the x2500h has the option t o disable all processing and the x3500h not ?
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post #5006 of 5676 Old 09-20-2019, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by lom1lo View Post
I just got the x3500h. Can anybody explain to me the diffrence between the bypass and game output settings ?

My x3500h does not have the bypass option and I dont want to get additional input lag while gaming. Isnt it strange that the x2500h has the option t o disable all processing and the x3500h not ?
Are you saying you are getting lag when gaming? My son played Call of Duty with my PS4 hooked up to the 3500 and my Epson 5050 projector, and he couldn't believe how there was no lag. He's a hardcore gamer too. He games on a $2500 gaming PC.

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post #5007 of 5676 Old 09-20-2019, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
Are you saying you are getting lag when gaming? My son played Call of Duty with my PS4 hooked up to the 3500 and my Epson 5050 projector, and he couldn't believe how there was no lag. He's a hardcore gamer too. He games on a $2500 gaming PC.

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Im honestly not sure, since I cant really do a side by side comparison. But the feeling that it is worse than before is a bit jarring.
I mean if other models have a bypass option to disable all processing, game must have processing (?!) and processing means always lag.
So I wonder, why a more expensive model does not have the option to disable the processing entirely.
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post #5008 of 5676 Old 09-20-2019, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lom1lo View Post
Im honestly not sure, since I cant really do a side by side comparison. But the feeling that it is worse than before is a bit jarring.

I mean if other models have a bypass option to disable all processing, game must have processing (?!) and processing means always lag.

So I wonder, why a more expensive model does not have the option to disable the processing entirely.
Are you talking about turning off video conversion? If so, it's right here in this menu. Each input needs to be changed to your option though. It's not a setting that goes across the board for each input.

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post #5009 of 5676 Old 09-20-2019, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
Are you talking about turning off video conversion? If so, it's right here in this menu. Each input needs to be changed to your option though. It's not a setting that goes across the board for each input.

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No Im talking about video mode. It has auto, game and movie.
On other models there is also bypass as option, to completly disable all processing. This is what I want, but somehow only the cheaper models have this functionality
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post #5010 of 5676 Old 09-20-2019, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by lom1lo View Post
No Im talking about video mode. It has auto, game and movie.

On other models there is also bypass as option, to completly disable all processing. This is what I want, but somehow only the cheaper models have this functionality
Did you try turning off Video Conversion? I'm pretty sure that disables Video Mode too, but I could be wrong.

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