"OFFICIAL" 2018 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 173 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5161 of 5561 Old 10-01-2019, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Nafizur View Post
So I’m gonna tske it in for warranty.. I’ll explain to them what’s going onZz how will they exactly fix it tho? It’s not like they’ll know what part is damaged or what not? What do u guys think they’ll do? Do they replace the entire board?
I doubt they'd even try to fix it, I'd say they'd probably just replace the entire unit. The days of repairing things are mostly over in my experience. Perhaps they'd replace a mainboard, but probably not.

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post #5162 of 5561 Old 10-01-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Nafizur View Post
As u can see from the pic, the red markets are the section dividers... there’s barely any room at the top of the receiver. Just cleared the top


You should definitely move it to another location. There’s zero room for air flow and these bad boys run hot.


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post #5163 of 5561 Old 10-01-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
If the audio sounds clean (distortion-free) to you, the Denon on its own is enough. If you think it sounds "strained", get an Emotiva three-channel amp for your LCR and you should be fine.

Weird question but is there a go to scene(s) that are recommended to really test if there is enough power for ones setup? I know I can put anything in and dial in the volume to what I would normally listen at but I also know not all scenes are created equal (quick peaks vs. a more sustained output, all speakers going including overheads, etc).
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post #5164 of 5561 Old 10-01-2019, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
(snip)

Tried using a calculator to see the recommended RMS/Peak wattage but since I don't know what the Denon can actually supply for power with all channels driven I can't get a definitive "math" answer. So merely looking for input from you all. Is the Denon more than enough power on it's own? Or would offloading the even just the Front Left and Right onto an amp be a good idea to keep some headroom free on the Denon?

Thanks!
The logic used by the AVR manufacturers is that you rarely drive all channels at maximum level simultaneously, so the 2 channel power spec is meaningful. Agree with that or not, as you like.

Simple arithmetic says that the 4500 has enough power for a single MT110 speaker to exceed 105 dB at 11 feet (3.3m). That's the THX spec for peaks in home theater. The specified sustained level is 85 dB, which will cause hearing damage over time.

If you decide to go for an amp, get one for the center as well, as it's the one among the front 3 that does the most for cinema work. That raises the price ante: there are a lot more stereo amps out there than 3 channel ones.
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post #5165 of 5561 Old 10-01-2019, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionblue View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafizur View Post
As u can see from the pic, the red markets are the section dividers... there’️s barely any room at the top of the receiver. Just cleared the top


You should definitely move it to another location. There’️s zero room for air flow and these bad boys run hot.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Okkk guys, came home and went straight to work.

I de-assembled the tv stand, took out the middle divider part and cut it in half. Now I have the avr side opened all the way to the top and there is lot of room.

I also ordered the AC infinity t10, so that should be coming tomorrow.

Now let’s say after running this for 2 days and I see NOO issues, should I still tske it in for warranty and get it checked out? So can I assume everything is fine now that it’s not over heating and had good airflow.
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post #5166 of 5561 Old 10-01-2019, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I know. This is one of the most generic questions asked but I finally have to ask it for sake of sanity. I "downgraded" from an AVM60 and high-output amps to a Denon AVR-4500H for the sake of extra cash.

- Setup is 5.1.4
- Front L and R are PSA MT-110 Surrounds (94dB), Center is an MTM-210 (98dB), Surrounds and Atmos speakers are Klipsch (94dB).
- Separate subwoofer handling low frequencies
- Front speakers are 11ft from MLP, surrounds and Atmos speakers are all about 6ft from MLP
- All crossed over at 80Hz
- Usage is movies around -10dB from reference volume on the Denon (after calibration)

Tried using a calculator to see the recommended RMS/Peak wattage but since I don't know what the Denon can actually supply for power with all channels driven I can't get a definitive "math" answer. So merely looking for input from you all. Is the Denon more than enough power on it's own? Or would offloading the even just the Front Left and Right onto an amp be a good idea to keep some headroom free on the Denon?

Thanks!

It seems you've gotten yourself in a make changes/upgrade mode. Who among us hasn't been there? Calm down! Stand back for at least six months and enjoy what you have.

AVR's, including yours, have acceptable amplifiers. Your speakers are very sensitive. The AVR-X4500H will drive your speakers to very high SPL's, higher then you'll want for listening over any appreciable amount of time.
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post #5167 of 5561 Old 10-01-2019, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
From what you guys have told me, I should not use the FLAT setting as I have a fairly large room of about 24 Feet long and opens up another fairly large hallway of sorts. But technical jargon aside, using FLAT compared to the Reference setting, how exactly does it effect the sound itself? I think Brian touched on this a little bit and said his small size speakers are muddier otherwise. Most of my speakers are set down to 90HZ or lower crossover by Audessey with the exception of Side Surrounds at 150Hz. (just so you guys have an idea of my speaker setup). And, I do set all my speakers to small still and keep the biggest Towers at 80 HZ or above, never below.
Using the Flat setting along with the Cinema EQ setting handles that larger room exception for not using Flat just on it's own. It's a workaround for removing the mostly unnecessary 2KHZ dip that Reference has built into its curve and still maintain the HF rolloff. The other way around it is to buy and use the MultEQ mobile app and remove the BBC dip that way.

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post #5168 of 5561 Old 10-01-2019, 11:37 PM
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Question regarding Audyssey and DTS Virtual:X

I have a AVR-1500H with a standard 7.1 speaker set-up in a highly treated room.

I have always had Audyssey implemented and for most sources I have matched the Sound Mode to the source.
However a lot of the content I watch (home videos, old movies, htpc) is 2.0, with some ranging up to 5.1, and I would like to get the best sound I can from these sources.

One option I would like to try (for a more "immersive" effect) is to use DTS Virtual:X which creates the effect of having height speakers as well as adding some horizontal surround sound from 2.0 sources.

My problem is that with the 1500H you can't have Audyssey and DTS Virtual:X running at the same time.
With Audyssey properly set-up, could I turn it off but don't touch any of the audio settings except to turn DTS Virtual:X on?
Would the full Audyssey settings still be in the mix, or when turning Audyssey off, do all the tweaked settings revert to their defaults?

I guess the bottom line is "What are the best sounding settings for my system when playing 2.0 (and similar) content?
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post #5169 of 5561 Old 10-01-2019, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bflauder View Post
Do you recommend Dynamic Volume be turned off for all sources or just movies?


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Personal preference. There is no set standard for audio other than for movies. One source might be mixed hot while another might be mixed light. Let your own ears be your guide. I use it but not usually for blu rays unless it's late at night.

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post #5170 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
Thanks.

I feel like the people who decided on "reference" level must have been almost deaf.

Edit: Actually, I just googled it a bit and now I understand it's so the frequency response is the same as intended because of Fletcher-Munsen curve.

Thank god for Dynamic EQ then, otherwise we'd all be deaf.
Reference level was never actually meant for the home. Only those with larger dedicated rooms that are highly treated usually listen at those levels. -15 to -20dB down are more average in home listening levels.

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post #5171 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
I wonder how many people actually have 3" spare over their AVRs. I certainly don't.

The TV cabinet is open on the front and back and sides though, so I hope heat can escape pretty effectively, certainly better than it could from a closed box.
I dont. Only 1.5 inches above but totally open on both sides and partly on the rear. This helps immensely but I also dont listen at amp stretching limits either. I use Eco mode as well.

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post #5172 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Nafizur View Post
Okkk guys, came home and went straight to work.

I de-assembled the tv stand, took out the middle divider part and cut it in half. Now I have the avr side opened all the way to the top and there is lot of room.

I also ordered the AC infinity t10, so that should be coming tomorrow.

Now let’s say after running this for 2 days and I see NOO issues, should I still tske it in for warranty and get it checked out? So can I assume everything is fine now that it’s not over heating and had good airflow.
Good job. Yes is the short answer but you might have shortened a piece of your electronics life span a bit. If the problem resolves after this there won't be much a warranty check can do. If it still persists keep mum on the previous lack of ventilation. Don't provide information that might get a warranty repair denied in other words.

Chane A5 towers,Chane A2.4 center,RBH bipole side surrounds, Rythmik LV12R x2,Denon X4300H, Outlaw 5000,Front B speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 books. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...d-part-ii.html
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post #5173 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Nordo View Post
My problem is that with the 1500H you can't have Audyssey and DTS Virtual:X running at the same time.
True. No way to use Audyssey + Virtual:X!

From the manual:
Quote:
Audyssey MultEQ, Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Audyssey Dynamic Volume cannot be selected when sound mode is “DTS Virtual:X” or sound mode that have “+Virtual:X” in the sound mode name.

When the sound mode is in “DTS Virtual:X” or sound mode that have “+Virtual:X” in the sound mode name, “MultEQ”, “Dynamic EQ” and “Dynamic Volume” settings cannot be configured.
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post #5174 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
True. No way to use Audyssey + Virtual:X!

From the manual:
Thanks for the quick reply.
I like the sound of "immersive sound" using Virtual:X but I don't want to lose Audyssey (the Audyssey makes an enormous difference).

Taking that into account, what does everyone think is the best Sound Mode for 2.0 sources (movies)?
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post #5175 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafizur View Post
Okkk guys, came home and went straight to work.

I de-assembled the tv stand, took out the middle divider part and cut it in half. Now I have the avr side opened all the way to the top and there is lot of room.

I also ordered the AC infinity t10, so that should be coming tomorrow.

Now let’️s say after running this for 2 days and I see NOO issues, should I still tske it in for warranty and get it checked out? So can I assume everything is fine now that it’️s not over heating and had good airflow.
Good job. Yes is the short answer but you might have shortened a piece of your electronics life span a bit. If the problem resolves after this there won't be much a warranty check can do. If it still persists keep mum on the previous lack of ventilation. Don't provide information that might get a warranty repair denied in other words.
Okay this sucks. The problem is still there. Ugh


https://www.dropbox.com/s/fv0mz0ceat...1080p.MOV?dl=0

Looks like I gotta take it in for warranty
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post #5176 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus
Weird question but is there a go to scene(s) that are recommended to really test if there is enough power for ones setup? …
I can't think of any specific scene at the moment but IMO a good test would be to simply replay through your new gear some of your favourite content that your old gear could handle effortlessly.
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post #5177 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordo View Post
Taking that into account, what does everyone think is the best Sound Mode for 2.0 sources (movies)?
This is very subjective.

Personally I switch between upmixers (DSU/Neural:X) and Multi Ch Stereo, depending on how good sounds to my ears. I am kind of disappointed with the performance of upmixers on 2.0 sources (Dolby Pro Logic/II was way better). On 5.1/7.1 sources the current upmixers sound great, though.
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post #5178 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 06:31 AM
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You're clearly a man of action, good job, lol!

I'd give it a week with no crashes before I called it fixed.


Edit: Damn. Just got to your latest message. Bad luck.

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
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post #5179 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordo View Post
Thanks for the quick reply.

I like the sound of "immersive sound" using Virtual:X but I don't want to lose Audyssey (the Audyssey makes an enormous difference).



Taking that into account, what does everyone think is the best Sound Mode for 2.0 sources (movies)?
Tried to test this situation but my X4500 only seem to have DTS Neural:X and I'm able to have Audyssey and this sound format

Edit: found the reason why. I have Dolby Atmos speakers
https://denon-uk.custhelp.com/app/an...c2d3FRJTIxJTIx

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post #5180 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 06:56 AM
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4500 has plenty of power for PSA speakers. I have MTM-210T'S, MTM210C, and MT-110'S for rears. I disconnected my Emotiva XPA-5. My mlp is 12' away.

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post #5181 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Using the Flat setting along with the Cinema EQ setting handles that larger room exception for not using Flat just on it's own. It's a workaround for removing the mostly unnecessary 2KHZ dip that Reference has built into its curve and still maintain the HF rolloff. The other way around it is to buy and use the MultEQ mobile app and remove the BBC dip that way.
Sorry, Im a newbie and dont understand any of that technical jargon about curves and dips etc. Can you just tell me how the sound is different between the two? I might just try listening to all 3 settings with Flat and Reference and then with Cinema EQ to see if I notice a difference otherwise and see whats best?

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post #5182 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 07:42 AM
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Thanks all. I'll save the money and focus on saving up for possibly going back to a Pre/Pro one day (the XMC-2 has my eyes due to Dirac Live)
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post #5183 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 07:55 AM
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Adding an amp doesn't make anything sound better or clearer unless the receiver is clipping. Solid state amp technology was perfected back in the 60's. They all have a flat response. The only difference is some can play louder than others before clipping.

If your receiver isn't strained and/or isn't getting really hot, I would just stick with it. Otherwise, you'll be disappointed with the results.
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post #5184 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Sorry, Im a newbie and dont understand any of that technical jargon about curves and dips etc. Can you just tell me how the sound is different between the two? I might just try listening to all 3 settings with Flat and Reference and then with Cinema EQ to see if I notice a difference otherwise and see whats best?
Audyssey Reference has the mid-range dip, centered around 2khz along with a roll of the very high frequencies, Audyssey Flat has neither of these, it is essentially "flat". Cinema EQ rolls off the top end similar to Audyssey Reference, but does not have a mid-range dip.

Hope that helps.
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post #5185 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 12:26 PM
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All this talk lately about Dynamic EQ has made me revisit it in my setup and now have a few questions of course. The first source I tried it on was Cable and I definitely don't expect miracles on it, but I did notice that it got very "bassy", if that's even a term. I'm definitely hearing more nuance there regardless.

Second source is ATV4K and the UHD Oblivion. During the opening dialogue and scenes, Tom Cruises' voice is deeper and sounds fuller and when he walks on the walkway to the ship the wind noise is more noticeable and natural sounding. Then comes the Oblivion stamp down and that sounds fantastic and definitely fuller and bassier.

When I initially did the Audyssey setup, it set my 2 subs to -4.5 and -4. I bumped those up to -1.5 and -1 and that's where they've stayed. So based on the above I changed that to -2.5 and -2 and may need to be lower still. Is this interaction with DEQ normal?

Also, since DEQ is supposed to help when listening at lower levels, as the volume gets closer to reference does the effect of DEQ diminish?
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post #5186 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionblue View Post
All this talk lately about Dynamic EQ has made me revisit it in my setup and now have a few questions of course. The first source I tried it on was Cable and I definitely don't expect miracles on it, but I did notice that it got very "bassy", if that's even a term. I'm definitely hearing more nuance there regardless.

Second source is ATV4K and the UHD Oblivion. During the opening dialogue and scenes, Tom Cruises' voice is deeper and sounds fuller and when he walks on the walkway to the ship the wind noise is more noticeable and natural sounding. Then comes the Oblivion stamp down and that sounds fantastic and definitely fuller and bassier.

When I initially did the Audyssey setup, it set my 2 subs to -4.5 and -4. I bumped those up to -1.5 and -1 and that's where they've stayed. So based on the above I changed that to -2.5 and -2 and may need to be lower still. Is this interaction with DEQ normal?

Also, since DEQ is supposed to help when listening at lower levels, as the volume gets closer to reference does the effect of DEQ diminish?
DEQ boosts both bass and surrounds, incrementally the further you get from 0MV. A great explanation can be found here, from @mthomas47 's awesome Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences (linked in my sig).
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post #5187 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
DEQ boosts both bass and surrounds, incrementally the further you get from 0MV. A great explanation can be found here, from @mthomas47 's awesome Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences (linked in my sig).

Hah! I had to ask! It’ll take some time to get through and digest that, but that’s ok. Definitely answers my questions. Thanks!


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post #5188 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 03:17 PM
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Sorry, Im a newbie and dont understand any of that technical jargon about curves and dips etc. Can you just tell me how the sound is different between the two? I might just try listening to all 3 settings with Flat and Reference and then with Cinema EQ to see if I notice a difference otherwise and see whats best?
That's fine. It's possible it could help with vocals. No way to know until you listen to it and see if there seems to be a difference. Cinema EQ is offered by Denon not Audyssey which is why the 2 EQ settings( Audyssey Flat and CEQ) can be used together. Not a big deal just a tip.
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post #5189 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
DEQ boosts both bass and surrounds, incrementally the further you get from 0MV. A great explanation can be found here, from @mthomas47 's awesome Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences (linked in my sig).
Excellent post, I agree it's awesome. Thanks to you for the point and @mthomas47 for the original!
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post #5190 of 5561 Old 10-02-2019, 05:07 PM
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Gotta say I love Dynamic EQ and I think it's one of the two biggest improvements I noticed from my old AVR.

When "she who must be obeyed" goes to bed, I get to listen to music and it can't be too loud. Dynamic EQ has made my speakers which I used to think were a bit lifeless at lower volumes sound much better. I have the offset set to -5dB.

Audyssey is great as well of course, but Dynamic EQ makes everything sing over the whole volume range.
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Last edited by noobtv; 10-02-2019 at 05:25 PM.
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