"OFFICIAL" 2018 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 190 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5671 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
so I bought an Onkyo TX-NR686...it was on sale for $250 so I thought why not...setup was super easy and their manual and on-screen guide were excellent...but...I was disappointed in the sound...it sounded too processed and not natural to my ears...I tried a bunch of different modes and the same...setup was easy but it did have some quirks...so in the end I packed it back up and am going to return it to Best Buy...will be picking up the Denon X1500H instead...I'm hoping for better luck
Funny as my wife said the same thing 15 years ago when I got rid of my Denon (music sounded great) for a high end HK 7200 then went to a Onkyo 809 (?? not sure exactly what the model number was/thought it was a 896) for HDMI needs and now going to a 2500. Gave my 809 away when I moved as I am no longer able to do a 50# man lift by myself.

She liked the Denon sound the best. I liked them all but that's just me.

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post #5672 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by etp View Post
reminds me of the bar napkin days in the military.
It's not my drawing. Just something I picked up along the way on AVS. I personally do:



3 1 2(4 and 5 a foot above the 3 and 2 locations)
Then 6,7 and 8 a foot ahead and in line with the first 3.

Biggest thing is no mic locations taken behind the listener and keep about 20 inches or so of spacing between any hard boundary and a mic location.

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post #5673 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Biggest thing is no mic locations taken behind the listener...
in that diagram aren't 8, 7, 6, 4 and 3 taken behind the main listening position?
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post #5674 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
in that diagram aren't 8, 7, 6, 4 and 3 taken behind the main listening position?
Nope. All are in front of the listener or in line with center of head location.

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post #5675 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by etp View Post
Home group should work in a normal situation (but have noticed a lot of scuttle buck about plex on the forums).
Based on my previous experience with DLNA, I don't think the receiver understands network file protocols. It's not going to use Samba or NFS or Windows networking to pull files off a PC. It's going to look for a "server" advertising that it speaks DLNA. That DLNA server will respond to requests from the receiver about what videos and music are available and will then stream requested files.



From what I'm reading online it looks like Windows does have DLNA built in. It just doesn't call it that. If you turn on and configure "Media Streaming" from the Network and Sharing Center you should be all set. I'm assuming you're running Windows.
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post #5676 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 03:21 AM
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Tried to clean this post up eh!

Bottom line is a paraphrase from Pogo, "we have found the server and it is us"


Homegroup has been deleted as of drop 1803 and network sharing evidently replaced it. We will find out soon if this all works with the 2500.


https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...over-a-network

Ok turned it on and it found all my devices that are actually broadcasting.



https://pureinfotech.com/setup-netwo...ng-windows-10/

https://www.dummies.com/computers/op...in-windows-10/

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post #5677 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 07:04 AM
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Sorry about the confusion. The BD->Denon and Denon-> TV are both 6'. I do have a 3' (somewhere) that would work for the BD->Denon I could try. Did not try another TV input but could as a test. So it seems enhanced is a use case that would not apply for me. 4K/60 would be for gaming console I guess which I dont use. I did try 4:2:2 and that did not help. You've given me some ideas. Seems just turning off enhanced is easiest solution. I will mess with it this weekend.
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Ah, ok. You said eARC 4 times in your post I quoted so that's what threw me off. Rereading that last post the one thing you didn't mention trying was another TV HDMI input with the Sony player still going through the receiver( you mentioned doing the reverse. ) The enhanced/standard HDMI settings are nothing more than bandwidth limiters. What's the longest length Certified Premium HDMI cable you have in the loop? UHD blu rays play at 24HZ and that should play on both Standard or Enhanced setting on the Denon as the latter is only needed for 4K 60HZ content. I'd double check the blu ray players YCbCr setting and see if it's set to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. If 4:4:4 then try the lower Chroma setting.
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post #5678 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 08:23 AM
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Ok, this is kind of driving me mad. If anyone could figure this one out, it would be appreciated.

I had a "magic setup" that I cant reproduce. Before we moved, my Denon X3400 and Sony TV did 2 things I cant get to work in the new house with the 3400 or the 4500.

1) when using the TV Audio source (ARC) with internal apps or OTA, I could hit the setup button on the Denon, the screen would momentarily blank, a little popup would come up (I forget what it said), and I could use the menu. When i was done, a little popup would come up saying switching back and Id be back to the content. I have the 3400 connected to a different TV, and I also have a 4500 with a different Sony TV. In both cases, I can't do this. I hit setup and cannot get it to appear on the TV. Ive tried various video output settings with no luck.

2) When I used Spotify Connect with the TV on it did something cool, which again, I can no longer do on either setup. This is hard to explain. I wish Id taken a picture. The Spotify screen has the thumbnail of the song playing in the middle of the screen. The rest of the screen is just black. On the "magic setup", it would sample the thumbnail, and color the rest on the screen with a pattern that matched the center song art instead of a black background. I cannot get this to work.

Neither of these are big issues, but bugs me that I cant figure out what is causing it. I suspect that both of these are related?
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post #5679 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Nope. All are in front of the listener or in line with center of head location.
Doesn't Audyssey XT32 recommend taking readings behind the listening position? And what's up with the towel over the back of the seat?
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post #5680 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 12:09 PM
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Doesn't Audyssey XT32 recommend taking readings behind the listening position? And what's up with the towel over the back of the seat?
Yes it does.

Some people worry about reflections off the head rest. Considering the entire room is full of reflective and absorptive surfaces I think it is overkill.
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post #5681 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by etp View Post
reminds me of the bar napkin days in the military.
I was probably drinking at the time .....
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post #5682 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
Sorry about the confusion. The BD->Denon and Denon-> TV are both 6'. I do have a 3' (somewhere) that would work for the BD->Denon I could try. Did not try another TV input but could as a test. So it seems enhanced is a use case that would not apply for me. 4K/60 would be for gaming console I guess which I dont use. I did try 4:2:2 and that did not help. You've given me some ideas. Seems just turning off enhanced is easiest solution. I will mess with it this weekend.
No worries. Those cable lengths are too short to be a problem. They actually recommend the 6 foot lengths over the 3 foot Certified Premium ones so I wouldn't go shorter than that. Happy to try and help as you shouldn't have to move your blu ray player to the TV for it to work.
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post #5683 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 03:50 PM
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Denon AVR-X2500H Humming / Buzzing Noise from Chassis?

I just setup a brand new Denon AVR-X2500H yesterday, purchased from Crutchfield. While tinkering with the settings, I noticed an audible humming / buzzing noise coming from the AVR chassis. The speakers were perfectly quiet. The buzzing did not increase or decrease w/ volume, and immediately went away when turning off the receiver. The AVR is located within an enclosed entertainment center with rear ventilation. I could hear the buzzing from the couch (12' away). From what I've read, it's likely the power transformer (60Hz buzzing).. and is NOT considered "normal" unless you rest your ear right on top of the receiver.

Has anyone experienced a similar issue?

The good news is that the buzzing magically stopped after unplugging and replugging the AVR power cord!! My concern is that it could return in the future, namely after the return period has lapsed.

Any words of wisdom are much appreciated.
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post #5684 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jeff94040 View Post
I just setup a brand new Denon AVR-X2500H yesterday, purchased from Crutchfield. While tinkering with the settings, I noticed an audible humming / buzzing noise coming from the AVR chassis. The speakers were perfectly quiet. The buzzing did not increase or decrease w/ volume, and immediately went away when turning off the receiver. The AVR is located within an enclosed entertainment center with rear ventilation. I could hear the buzzing from the couch (12' away). From what I've read, it's likely the power transformer (60Hz buzzing).. and is NOT considered "normal" unless you rest your ear right on top of the receiver.

Has anyone experienced a similar issue?

The good news is that the buzzing magically stopped after unplugging and replugging the AVR power cord!! My concern is that it could return in the future, namely after the return period has lapsed.

Any words of wisdom are much appreciated.
Contact Crutchfield ASAP.
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post #5685 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
Yes it does.
No, it doesn't. They just say to take measurements around the listening position. This turned into users spreading the 6 to 8 mic positions across a wider area than was initially intended messing up the software's spatial averaging resulting in a "Measure for all fix is for none" outcome. Our hearing also doesn't work as well behind our ears so it makes sense to prioritize what's to the side, above and in front of the listeners ears.





Quote:
Some people worry about reflections off the head rest. Considering the entire room is full of reflective and absorptive surfaces I think it is overkill.
Not just head rests but back walls as well. This is why a minimum 20 inch distance from any boundary is also a recommend in the Audyssey setup instructions. Many users have reported better results using the blanket tip as well in the Audyssey thread as well as in the receiver threads that use Audyssey. The mic is getting the same bad sound information being close to a boundary wall as our ears would get so correcting for it in the final EQ makes sense as rerunning Audyssey over and over again gets old quick. Its also best to invest just a few bucks in a proper boom mic stand and camera adapter mount and throw the cardboard spaceship Denon provides in the garbage.


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post #5686 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
No, it doesn't. They just say to take measurements around the listening position. This turned into users spreading the 6 to 8 mic positions across a wider area than was initially intended messing up the software's spatial averaging resulting in a "Measure for all fix is for none" outcome. Our hearing also doesn't work as well behind our ears so it makes sense to prioritize what's to the side, above and in front of the listeners ears.







Not just head rests but back walls as well. This is why a minimum 20 inch distance from any boundary is also a recommend in the Audyssey setup instructions. Many users have reported better results using the blanket tip as well in the Audyssey thread as well as in the receiver threads that use Audyssey. The mic is getting the same bad sound information being close to a boundary wall as our ears would get so correcting for it in the final EQ makes sense as rerunning Audyssey over and over again gets old quick. Its also best to invest just a few bucks in a proper boom mic stand and camera adapter mount and throw the cardboard spaceship Denon provides in the garbage.

Please review the figure on page 7 of the Audyssey setup guide in the original Audyssey thread. This is also the layout that my Denon 3500 walks you through.

I don't disagree with not measuring close to a boundary wall but when people start draping blankets over things I question if you can really hear a difference. Plus the room is going to sound different if you have one person in the room or 10.

Yes to the boom mic stand.
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post #5687 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
Please review the figure on page 7 of the Audyssey setup guide in the original Audyssey thread. This is also the layout that my Denon 3500 walks you through.
Those last 2 measurements for XT32 are best taken above the plane of the first six not behind. The diagram I uploaded in the last post also represents XT32's 8 points and shows nothing behind the listening position. By the way that same diagram I uploaded from the 4200 is also on page 182 of your 3500's PDF manual. Pic below included from my PDF copy of the 3500 manual.

From the original Audyssey thread:

For example, we recommend taking 3 positions on the couch facing the TV and then 3 more positions about 3 feet in front of the couch and parallel to the first three. Measurements up against the back or side walls should be avoided.






Quote:
I don't disagree with not measuring close to a boundary wall but when people start draping blankets over things I question if you can really hear a difference.
Chris Kyriakakis of Audyssey has stated something similar in some of his Audyssey Zendesk posts but he also says to raise the mic above the seatback in the same posts. I'm not really pushing back as much that a towel over a seatback makes an audible difference so much as no measurements should be taken behind the listeners ear. Best practices is to lower the noise floor of the room as much as possible, no fans , traffic noise,construction,babys crying. Prioritize within a foot or 2 of the main listening position and dont try to account for every setting location. Use a proper boom mic stand and dont place it between the mic and any of the speakers. Leave the room right before taking a measurement. If you get an out of phase error ignore it and move on in the setup. Dont be afraid to retake the measurements if the sound you get afterwards isn't acceptable. Tightening up the pattern sometimes helps as well as adding a height measurement or 2.


Quote:
Plus the room is going to sound different if you have one person in the room or 10.
Active room EQ can only ever best measure for a single listening position anyways so that's not in dispute. That's why multi sub placement is so important for a wider seat to seat consistency with bass which is what most miss out on farther out from the MLP due to standing waves. Bottom line is you should try to make Audyssey's end results best for the main listening position which is what the diagram and instructions clearly state.



Quote:
Yes to the boom mic stand.
. I use the On Stage one but I also have a nice Amazon Basics tripod stand for my TV calibration colorimeter setup. Both together were probably 40 bucks or so and they easily fold up and out of the way in the front corner of my room.
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post #5688 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 06:36 PM
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my new X1500H is arriving on Tuesday and I have a question...ARC CEC has been annoying in my limited experience with it...do I need to enable 'HDMI Control' in my receiver settings for ARC to work?...or is that only to enable CEC?...I don't want it turning on and enabling all my other devices every time and would prefer to turn on those extra devices separately when I use them...all I want from ARC is for audio (including Dolby Digital+) to work from my dedicated 5.1 speakers when using the TV's built-in apps (Netflix, Prime Video etc)
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post #5689 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
Those last 2 measurements for XT32 are best taken above the plane of the first six not behind. The diagram I uploaded in the last post also represents XT32's 8 points and shows nothing behind the listening position. By the way that same diagram I uploaded from the 4200 is also on page 182 of your 3500's PDF manual. Pic below included from my PDF copy of the 3500 manual.

From the original Audyssey thread:

For example, we recommend taking 3 positions on the couch facing the TV and then 3 more positions about 3 feet in front of the couch and parallel to the first three. Measurements up against the back or side walls should be avoided.








Chris Kyriakakis of Audyssey has stated something similar in some of his Audyssey Zendesk posts but he also says to raise the mic above the seatback in the same posts. I'm not really pushing back as much that a towel over a seatback makes an audible difference so much as no measurements should be taken behind the listeners ear. Best practices is to lower the noise floor of the room as much as possible, no fans , traffic noise,construction,babys crying. Prioritize within a foot or 2 of the main listening position and dont try to account for every setting location. Use a proper boom mic stand and dont place it between the mic and any of the speakers. Leave the room right before taking a measurement. If you get an out of phase error ignore it and move on in the setup. Dont be afraid to retake the measurements if the sound you get afterwards isn't acceptable. Tightening up the pattern sometimes helps as well as adding a height measurement or 2.




Active room EQ can only ever best measure for a single listening position anyways so that's not in dispute. That's why multi sub placement is so important for a wider seat to seat consistency with bass which is what most miss out on farther out from the MLP due to standing waves. Bottom line is you should try to make Audyssey's end results best for the main listening position which is what the diagram and instructions clearly state.





. I use the On Stage one but I also have a nice Amazon Basics tripod stand for my TV calibration colorimeter setup. Both together were probably 40 bucks or so and they easily fold up and out of the way in the front corner of my room.
Attachment 2644308
That pic from the 3500 manual only shows 6 mic positions. The calibration guide when you run Audyssey steps through 8 mic positions.

I do all my measurements slightly above the seat back. I strive for the "acoustic bubble".

The bottom line is that, unless you are building a dedicated, high end home theater and are just an average guy with a house, wife, and a couple of kids, there will be compromises made. Hopefully they will be good ones.
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
my new X1500H is arriving on Tuesday and I have a question...ARC CEC has been annoying in my limited experience with it...do I need to enable 'HDMI Control' in my receiver settings for ARC to work?...or is that only to enable CEC?...I don't want it turning on and enabling all my other devices every time and would prefer to turn on those extra devices separately when I use them...all I want from ARC is for audio (including Dolby Digital+) to work from my dedicated 5.1 speakers when using the TV's built-in apps (Netflix, Prime Video etc)
Nope. However, ensure the <ARC> setting is enabled. (p. 159 Owner's manual).
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post #5691 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 07:32 PM
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Nope. However, ensure the <ARC> setting is enabled. (p. 159 Owner's manual).
thanks...I just checked out the manual...so according to that the ARC setting is enabled by default...so the only thing I would have to do is enable in my Sound options on my TV...I could have sworn that for my AVR-791 it stated that HDMI Control needed to be enabled in order for ARC to work
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post #5692 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
That pic from the 3500 manual only shows 6 mic positions. The calibration guide when you run Audyssey steps through 8 mic positions.


To the left of that diagram they state when measuring 6 or 8 positions and MultEQ which has only 6 measurements isn't available on any of the X series models. For the record Audyssey on its own has no actual official pattern for taking in room measurements other than for the first one being center of head but for a single listening position it makes no sense psychoacoustically to move the added 2 positions XT and XT32 afford you behind your ears. Much better to add them in either in front or above the first 3 positions for main speakers with vertical axis issues. With a multi level seat setup and a 7.1 or higher channel count however then yeah I can see taking the last 2 behind the MLP.


Quote:
The bottom line is that, unless you are building a dedicated, high end home theater and are just an average guy with a house, wife, and a couple of kids, there will be compromises made. Hopefully they will be good ones.
True that.

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post #5693 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
my new X1500H is arriving on Tuesday and I have a question...ARC CEC has been annoying in my limited experience with it...do I need to enable 'HDMI Control' in my receiver settings for ARC to work?...or is that only to enable CEC?...I don't want it turning on and enabling all my other devices every time and would prefer to turn on those extra devices separately when I use them...all I want from ARC is for audio (including Dolby Digital+) to work from my dedicated 5.1 speakers when using the TV's built-in apps (Netflix, Prime Video etc)
No to HDMI control having to be on but that's not what causes most people's issues. It's the TV sets implementation of ARC/CEC control which only has an on or off setting for both features. Bravia Sync for example kept turning my receiver on at late night hours while I was sleeping yet HDMI control in my Denon was turned off. YMMV. I hope it does.

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post #5694 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 09:27 PM
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To the left of that diagram they state when measuring 6 or 8 positions and MultEQ which has only 6 measurements isn't available on any of the X series models. For the record Audyssey on its own has no actual official pattern for taking in room measurements other than for the first one being center of head but for a single listening position it makes no sense psychoacoustically to move the added 2 positions XT and XT32 afford you behind your ears. Much better to add them in either in front or above the first 3 positions for main speakers with vertical axis issues. With a multi level seat setup and a 7.1 or higher channel count however then yeah I can see taking the last 2 behind the MLP.

True that.

Once I get my back surround speakers installed (Only have 5.1 at the moment. Have to build a false wall above some built in shelves to mount the other two speakers) I'll be rerunning Audyssey. We'll see how things go this next time around.

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post #5695 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 09:29 PM
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Once I get my back surround speakers installed (Only have 5.1 at the moment. Have to build a false wall above some built in shelves to mount the other two speakers) I'll be rerunning Audyssey. We'll see how things go this next time around.
I only have a 5.1 setup as well. Had a 7.1 but I was seated too close to my back wall for it to make any difference.

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post #5696 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 10:04 PM
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I only have a 5.1 setup as well. Had a 7.1 but I was seated too close to my back wall for it to make any difference.
I use four Polk FXiA4 speakers set in bipolar mode for surround. Front left and right are Polk RTiA1s with a Polk CSiA4 center. Sub is a Hsu VTF2 Mk3 with a Mk5 power amp (original power amp died after a number of years and Hsu sold me the Mk5 amp for $250).
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post #5697 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
No to HDMI control having to be on but that's not what causes most people's issues. It's the TV sets implementation of ARC/CEC control which only has an on or off setting for both features. Bravia Sync for example kept turning my receiver on at late night hours while I was sleeping yet HDMI control in my Denon was turned off. YMMV. I hope it does.
it's confusing because I've read several articles which state that CEC is required in order for ARC to work...

"CEC stands for "Consumer Electronics Control," and it needs to be enabled in both the TV and AV receiver for ARC to function"

https://hometheaterreview.com/everyt...eturn-channel/

even looking in the X1500H manual (page 160) it states the following: "When “HDMI Control” is set to “On”, the “ARC” settings automatically switch “On”

so there is some sort of connection between the 2 settings...the main reason this is of importance to me is because I like to use the TV's built-in apps as I find it has slightly better image quality with Dolby Vision content compared to the Apple TV 4K...I don't want to use a digital optical Toslink cable because it doesn't support Dolby Digital+

Last edited by TitusTroy; 11-22-2019 at 10:17 PM.
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post #5698 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
it's confusing because I've read several articles which state that CEC is required in order for ARC to work...



"CEC stands for "Consumer Electronics Control," and it needs to be enabled in both the TV and AV receiver for ARC to function"



https://hometheaterreview.com/everyt...eturn-channel/



even looking in the X1500H manual (page 160) it states the following: "When “HDMI Control” is set to “On”, the “ARC” settings automatically switch “On”



so there is some sort of connection between the 2 settings...the main reason this is of importance to me is because I like to use the TV's built-in apps as I find it has slightly better image quality with Dolby Vision content compared to the Apple TV 4K...I don't want to use a digital optical Toslink cable because it doesn't support Dolby Digital+
That article is incorrect . Its page 159 of the PDF manual and doesn't say anything about it having to be on just that enabling HDMI control also turns on ARC. You just turn HDMI control off afterwards if you don't want to actively use CEC commands. I've used ARC without HDMI control in my receiver set to on as many others here have as well. It's a totally separate pin on the HDMI cable than ARC. pin 13 I believe and can even be removed and or disabled without affecting ARC function. eARC now uses the standalone ethernet wire that the HDMI spec supports for higher bandwidth. Click image for larger version

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post #5699 of 5883 Old 11-22-2019, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
thanks...I just checked out the manual...so according to that the ARC setting is enabled by default...so the only thing I would have to do is enable in my Sound options on my TV...I could have sworn that for my AVR-791 it stated that HDMI Control needed to be enabled in order for ARC to work
1. Nope. In fact if you review p. 159 again, you'll note that the factory default setting for both HDMI Control and ARC is "OFF".
2. On much older models like the 791, there is no dedicated ARC setting, and therefore HDMI Control must be enabled for ARC to work. The ARC setting started on the 2015 and newer models and was created because owners wanted the ARC capability without the need for HDMI Control.
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post #5700 of 5883 Old 11-23-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay Heyl View Post
Thanks for the feedback. Let me ask you this. Is the MultiEQ XT32 so much better than the MultiEQ XT that you'd pay 50% more for the receiver just to get XT32 over plain XT?
Yes.

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