"OFFICIAL" 2018 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 196 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5851 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 09:23 AM
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This is my setup with my 3500 and Panasonic 820 Blu-Ray player. Eco is turned off. I rarely listen with the level above -15. Have no heat problems at all. Had my Onkyo 706 and Oppo player set the same way for 11 years with no heat problems.



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post #5852 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
This is my setup with my 3500 and Panasonic 820 Blu-Ray player. Eco is turned off. I rarely listen with the level above -15. Have no heat problems at all. Had my Onkyo 706 and Oppo player set the same way for 11 years with no heat problems.

It's never recommended to place something other than an exhaust fan on top of the AVR which should have a minimum of 3-4" clearance above it. Suggest you move the BDP to another location.
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post #5853 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
It's never recommended to place something other than an exhaust fan on top of the AVR which should have a minimum of 3-4" clearance above it. Suggest you move the BDP to another location.
Allow me to repeat: I have no heating problems now nor did I ever have a heating problem in 11 years either with my previous set up.
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post #5854 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
Allow me to repeat: I have no heating problems now nor did I ever have a heating problem in 11 years either with my previous set up.
No need to repeat … rather simply cautioning others to not do what you are doing.
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post #5855 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
No need to repeat … rather simply cautioning others to not do what you are doing.

And I am not recommending that anyone else set up their system like mine is. Only stating the fact that with my setup and the way I use my system, I have zero heating problems now or in the past.




Quote:
Originally Posted by tai4de2 View Post
I got a 6500 to replace a venerable 3808ci. I'm running 7.4.2 and at first it was running HOT. Like could possibly leave a mark on skin hot.

After watching a movie or simply DISH TV for a couple of hours with the volume set between -20 to -18 (normal listening level) or -15 (loud listening level), I can place my finger between the top of the AVR and bottom of the 820 and the area is only slightly warm. It will definitely NOT burn my skin as tai4de2 implied his did.


There is nothing in either the owner's manual or Quick Start guide that talks about physical installation requirements that I can find.

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post #5856 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
And I am not recommending that anyone else set up their system like mine is. Only stating the fact that with my setup and the way I use my system, I have zero heating problems now or in the past.
Your installation has excellent ventilation all around so I would not expect any heat-related impact to the AVR. However, it is never recommended to place any electronics directly on top of the AVR. The heat rising from the AVR could very well shorten the life of a Blu-ray player or cause other issues.


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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
There is nothing in either the owner's manual or Quick Start guide that talks about physical installation requirements that I can find.
Denon user manuals used to contain the below precautionary notice (IDK whether it is still being published in some form):


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post #5857 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
Your installation has excellent ventilation all around so I would not expect any heat-related impact to the AVR. However, it is never recommended to place any electronics directly on top of the AVR. The heat rising from the AVR could very well shorten the life of a Blu-ray player or cause other issues.




Denon user manuals used to contain the below precautionary notice (IDK whether it is still being published in some form):


I might be able to move the 820 to the next shelf on top of the DISH receiver. But my Oppo sat on top of my Onkyo for 9 years until it died this year. The Onkyo was 11 years old and still was going strong.

No such figure like that in the 3500 manual that I can find.
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post #5858 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
I might be able to move the 820 to the next shelf on top of the DISH receiver. But my Oppo sat on top of my Onkyo for 9 years until it died this year. The Onkyo was 11 years old and still was going strong.

No such figure like that in the 3500 manual that I can find.
I can suggest why. I tried to find the 4200 equivalent once. I remember it being hard to find. I think it was either in the short "quick guide" that was separate to the manual, or the separate "safety instructions" piece of paper.

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post #5859 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I can suggest why. I tried to find the 4200 equivalent once. I remember it being hard to find. I think it was either in the short "quick guide" that was separate to the manual, or the separate "safety instructions" piece of paper.
It's not in the Quick Guide and I can't find the Safety Instructions. Never read them anyway.
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post #5860 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
It's not in the Quick Guide and I can't find the Safety Instructions. Never read them anyway.
https://denon.custhelp.com/app/answe...recommendation
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post #5861 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
"Although there's no definitive specification": As a systems engineer for 40+ years, I prefer definitive specifications.

"we recommend": A recommendation is a guideline, not a requirement.

"reduce the risk": But not eliminate it.

"For added protection, you may also": But you don't have to.

This is all legal CYA on the part of the manufacturer. If it were really a requirement, it should be right up front in the owner's manual and not buried in some help Q&A.

Having said all that, common sense should prevail. Don't install the AVR in a closed space behind doors. Leave some space for air flow. How much space? Monitor the heat level periodically and adjust as necessary. Worked for me for many many years.


For the heck of it, I moved the 820 to on top of the DISH receiver. Only other place it can go. Will it make any difference? I doubt it.


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post #5862 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
This is all legal CYA on the part of the manufacturer. If it were really a requirement, it should be right up front in the owner's manual and not buried in some help Q&A.
No question about that. The "recommendations" were undoubtedly vetted with the corporate lawyers with an eye to protecting against liability claims. I believe that goes without saying (but I said it anyway, and not for the first time in these threads).

BTW, that diagram I posted WAS from a Denon owner's manual of years past. And I always took the 12-inch clearance recommendation with a large grain of salt.


Quote:
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Having said all that, common sense should prevail.
That's the bottom line. Unfortunately, not every new owner possesses that precious commodity. Ergo, the sound advice (NPI) from good folks like JDSmoothie.
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post #5863 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by chi_guy50 View Post
No question about that. The "recommendations" were undoubtedly vetted with the corporate lawyers with an eye to protecting against liability claims. I believe that goes without saying (but I said it anyway, and not for the first time in these threads).

BTW, that diagram I posted WAS from a Denon owner's manual of years past. And I always took the 12-inch clearance recommendation with a large grain of salt.




That's the bottom line. Unfortunately, not every new owner possesses that precious commodity. Ergo, the sound advice (NPI) from good folks like JDSmoothie.

I hope people understand that I am not arguing with JDSmoothie, merely expressing my opinion based on many years of experience. I build vacuum tube guitar amplifiers as a hobby so I am well aware of the need for proper cooling of amplifiers.








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post #5864 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Proper ventilation requires at least 3-4" clearance on top (Denon actually calls for 12") with open front and back so that is what helped bring the temp down. General suggestion is to leave the AVR set at the factory default 8-ohm setting regardless of the impedance of the speakers, as lowering it to 4-ohm is simply reducing the available rail voltage.

The best way to extend the lifetime of your AVR is to never power it on.
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post #5865 of 6410 Old 12-05-2019, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
It's not in the Quick Guide and I can't find the Safety Instructions. Never read them anyway.
It used to be but manuals were all smaller back then. From my old Denon 2805 PDF manual. I only have about 1.5 inches of top clearance above my Denon before the bottom of my next shelf but fully open on both sides. I don't listen above about -35 or so Relative though . I could definitely do what you're doing as well if I had room for another piece of gear above the receiver and probably not have any issues. I probably wouldn't feel comfortable doing it without also adding those rubber feet to the bottom of the 820. I think the time is coming sooner than later that all AVR's eventually convert to SMPS and class D amps. Maybe not the flagship models though. Just a hunch though from seeing what Onkyo,Integra Pioneer and Anthem are moving to albeit slowly by embracing class D.Click image for larger version

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post #5866 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
Having said all that, common sense should prevail. Don't install the AVR in a closed space behind doors. Leave some space for air flow. How much space? Monitor the heat level periodically and adjust as necessary. Worked for me for many many years.

For the heck of it, I moved the 820 to on top of the DISH receiver. Only other place it can go. Will it make any difference? I doubt it.
Your installation does use common sense for anyone who has been around electronics gear for very long. The problem is that most people simply don't have our experience, or else arrange the equipment for visual pleasure rather than reliability. I too have built vacuum-tube amplifiers and radio transmitters so we are in the same playing field. You may not have made the "recommendation" for top clearance, but the generous side clearance left plenty of room for air flow.

For the other two boxes, have you considered putting the Blu-ray player UNDER the cable box? The BD probably generates less heat, giving the STB more cooling.

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post #5867 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 09:30 AM
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Oh my! This is a long thread!
Can someone please tell me if I can connect a 4k tv and a 1080p projector to the two "monitor" outputs (NOT zone 2) on the x3500 without any hdmi issues? They wont be "watched" at the same time. I'm sure if I watched them at the same time, the 4k tv would be limited to 1080p, but what if they are connected to the x3500, but one is in "standby"/powered off mode? Does the denon still "see" both displays?
I currently have a janky setup on my x3300's single hdmi monitor output where I have a passive hdmi "coupler" that I have to manually switch between the cable going to the 4k tv and the 1808p projector, depending on which I'm watching. I've tried the little cheap hdmi splitters, but they were not reliable. I also tried zone 2 output but that was a bigger pain. I'm considering upgrading to the x3500 for the dual monitor outputs (if they work as I need them to) and built-in phono amp. Thx.


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post #5868 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post
Oh my! This is a long thread!
Can someone please tell me if I can connect a 4k tv and a 1080p projector to the two "monitor" outputs (NOT zone 2) on the x3500 without any hdmi issues? They wont be "watched" at the same time. I'm sure if I watched them at the same time, the 4k tv would be limited to 1080p, but what if they are connected to the x3500, but one is in "standby"/powered off mode? Does the denon still "see" both displays?
I currently have a janky setup on my x3300's single hdmi monitor output where I have a passive hdmi "coupler" that I have to manually switch between the cable going to the 4k tv and the 1808p projector, depending on which I'm watching. I've tried the little cheap hdmi splitters, but they were not reliable. I also tried zone 2 output but that was a bigger pain. I'm considering upgrading to the x3500 for the dual monitor outputs (if they work as I need them to) and built-in phono amp. Thx.
You'll need to set the <HDMI Video Output> to either "Monitor 1" or "Monitor 2" as desired, otherwise "Auto(Dual)" will down rez the video to 1080p.
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post #5869 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post
Oh my! This is a long thread!
Can someone please tell me if I can connect a 4k tv and a 1080p projector to the two "monitor" outputs (NOT zone 2) on the x3500 without any hdmi issues? They wont be "watched" at the same time. I'm sure if I watched them at the same time, the 4k tv would be limited to 1080p, but what if they are connected to the x3500, but one is in "standby"/powered off mode? Does the denon still "see" both displays?
I currently have a janky setup on my x3300's single hdmi monitor output where I have a passive hdmi "coupler" that I have to manually switch between the cable going to the 4k tv and the 1808p projector, depending on which I'm watching. I've tried the little cheap hdmi splitters, but they were not reliable. I also tried zone 2 output but that was a bigger pain. I'm considering upgrading to the x3500 for the dual monitor outputs (if they work as I need them to) and built-in phono amp. Thx.
You'll need to set the <HDMI Video Output> to either "Monitor 1" or "Monitor 2" as desired, otherwise "Auto(Dual)" will down rez the video to 1080p.
Thanks! So what does that setting do? Will the x3500 connect to both of my displays and have no issues? Thanks!!
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post #5870 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
Your installation does use common sense for anyone who has been around electronics gear for very long. The problem is that most people simply don't have our experience, or else arrange the equipment for visual pleasure rather than reliability. I too have built vacuum-tube amplifiers and radio transmitters so we are in the same playing field. You may not have made the "recommendation" for top clearance, but the generous side clearance left plenty of room for air flow.

For the other two boxes, have you considered putting the Blu-ray player UNDER the cable box? The BD probably generates less heat, giving the STB more cooling.
Unfortunately, the DISH TV box is deeper then the 820 so it won't fit on top of the 820. I may move the 820 back on top of the AVR as I had it before.
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post #5871 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 01:32 PM
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If I was going for the following 7.1.2 speaker layout for Atmos, what would be the assignment on a X4500H for the ceiling speakers?
See link for layout:
Dolby Atmos 7.1.2
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post #5872 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 01:35 PM
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If I was going for the following 7.1.2 speaker layout for Atmos, what would be the assignment on a X4500H for the ceiling speakers?
See link for layout:
Dolby Atmos 7.1.2
Top middle
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post #5873 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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If I was going for the following 7.1.2 speaker layout for Atmos, what would be the assignment on a X4500H for the ceiling speakers?
See link for layout:
This would depend on where you physically place the speakers; however, if you plan on placing them above and just forward of your seating position as noted in the link, then "Top Middle" would be used.
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post #5874 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! So what does that setting do? Will the x3500 connect to both of my displays and have no issues? Thanks!!
Again, only if you manually select a specific output (1 or 2) for each source connected.
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post #5875 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 01:46 PM
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So, like the first one in this link?

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4500H/N...SYeosolrjl.php
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post #5876 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post
Thanks! So what does that setting do? Will the x3500 connect to both of my displays and have no issues? Thanks!!
Again, only if you manually select a specific output (1 or 2) for each source connected.
Sorry. But I'm not following. What does that setting do? I have to assign different sources to different outputs?? I can't watch the same source on both displays (one on monitor #1 and the other on monitor #2 ), at different times? Example..I'm watching my 4k tv from my roku through the x3500. I want to watch the same source but on the projector, so I turn off the tv, turn on the projector. The projector won't be displaying the roku source? I'm not changing zones....just the monitor I'm watching from the same source.
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post #5877 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 01:49 PM
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So, like the first one in this link?

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4500H/N...SYeosolrjl.php
Correct. The TMR and TML letters where the speakers are mounted stands for "top middle right" and "top middle left".
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post #5878 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post
Sorry. But I'm not following. What does that setting do? I have to assign different sources to different outputs?? I can't watch the same source on both displays (one on monitor #1 and the other on monitor #2 ), at different times? Example..I'm watching my 4k tv from my roku through the x3500. I want to watch the same source but on the projector, so I turn off the tv, turn on the projector. The projector won't be displaying the roku source? I'm not changing zones....just the monitor I'm watching from the same source.
Not using the "Auto(Dual)" setting no. Refer to p. 169 in the Owner's manual for more info.
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post #5879 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post
Sorry. But I'm not following. What does that setting do? I have to assign different sources to different outputs?? I can't watch the same source on both displays (one on monitor #1 and the other on monitor #2 ), at different times? Example..I'm watching my 4k tv from my roku through the x3500. I want to watch the same source but on the projector, so I turn off the tv, turn on the projector. The projector won't be displaying the roku source? I'm not changing zones....just the monitor I'm watching from the same source.
Not using the "Auto(Dual)" setting no. Refer to p. 169 in the Owner's manual for more info.
I've read the manual. It isn't clear to me. Such as in auto mode, when it says a tv is automatically detected if "connected" to the hdmi output, does that mean the tv is detected even if powered off?
It would seem to be the logical thing would be if u had displays connected to both hdmi monitor outputs #1 and #2 , the x3500 would detect whichever display is "active" and Just pass through whatever the input video signal it's getting. Is that not how it works?
Are u saying that if I had displays with different resolutions connected to both of the monitor outputs, I would have to go into the menu and manually make them each "active" based on which one I was watching at the time? That seems super janky! Is there another model in the DENON line that can actually send video to two different resolution displays independently (only one is powered on at a time) without concerning itself with the resolution of the second display which is powered off?
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post #5880 of 6410 Old 12-06-2019, 08:11 PM
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I have the 3500. I have one hdmi cable running from "monitor output 1" going to my 70' 4k Vizio. I have another hdmi running from "monitor output 2" running to my 1080p projector. Whenever I want to watch tv on the projector, I turn off the Vizio and turn on the projector and whatever I was watching on the Vizio shows up on the projector. I just sends the video to both monitor outputs, regardless if it is "turned on".


Hope that was what you were looking for.
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