"OFFICIAL" 2018 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 212 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6331 of 6375 Old 01-11-2020, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by liftmys10 View Post
Is the 3500 getting this update later on?


I believe he’s referring to new models for 2020 the 3600 was the update for the 3500.

The 4500 didn’t get a new model in 2019, possibly waiting for HDMI 2.1.
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post #6332 of 6375 Old 01-11-2020, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by liftmys10 View Post
Is the 3500 getting this update later on?
If you are referring to HDMI 2.1, no as this requires a hardware upgrade (ie. whole new model).

The 2018 X4500H/X6500H are expected to be replaced by the 2020 X4?00H/X6?00H (model number unknown as no replacement in 2019) HDMI 2.1 models in September.

Unknown as to whether the 2019 X3600H (that replaced the 2018 X3500H in this thread) will be replaced with a X3700H or whether it will be HDMI 2.1.
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post #6333 of 6375 Old 01-12-2020, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by residentsystems View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by liftmys10 View Post
Is the 3500 getting this update later on?


I believe he’️s referring to new models for 2020 the 3600 was the update for the 3500.

The 4500 didn’️t get a new model in 2019, possibly waiting for HDMI 2.1.
Just to clarify though, the x4500 already supports eARC and ALLM (major benefits of hdmi 2.1) correct?

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post #6334 of 6375 Old 01-12-2020, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Just to clarify though, the x4500 already supports eARC and ALLM (major benefits of hdmi 2.1) correct?
Correct. The YELLOW models have HDMI2.0b, HDCP2.2, and eARC and ALLM from HDMI2.1 but not Quick Media Switching or Variable Frame Rate.

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post #6335 of 6375 Old 01-12-2020, 04:57 AM
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X4500 RC and Venz10 media player control

If anyone would need, to control Venz10 android media player using Denon x4500 RC, use CBL/SAT group -> Video Accessory -> Western Digital code : 02558
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post #6336 of 6375 Old 01-12-2020, 06:20 AM
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Dynamic EQ on or off for upfiring Dolby Atmos speakers?

I know that everything comes down to personal preference, but is there any general consensus about leaving Dynamic EQ on or off for upfiring Dolby Atmos speakers? For those of you with far more audiophile experience (which would be just about everyone), are there any specific acoustic reasons why leaving it on or off would be preferable?

Thanks!
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post #6337 of 6375 Old 01-12-2020, 12:04 PM
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Denon AVR4500H

Does anyone know if the 2018 4500 will be able to be upgraded to HDMI 2.1 when it becomes available? I read that the 8500 will be eligible what about he 6500 or 4500?
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post #6338 of 6375 Old 01-12-2020, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ash01748 View Post
Does anyone know if the 2018 4500 will be able to be upgraded to HDMI 2.1 when it becomes available? I read that the 8500 will be eligible what about he 6500 or 4500?
No, just the 8500 is upgradeable.
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post #6339 of 6375 Old 01-12-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by geodon005 View Post
I know that everything comes down to personal preference, but is there any general consensus about leaving Dynamic EQ on or off for upfiring Dolby Atmos speakers? For those of you with far more audiophile experience (which would be just about everyone), are there any specific acoustic reasons why leaving it on or off would be preferable?

Thanks!
As far as I know, DEQ helps Atmos a bit but what makes it or breaks it is Dynamic Vol. With Dynamic Vol on, the atmos sounds are in full swing and meant to be appreciated like that and with Dynamic Vol off, atmos sound is cut off in half it seems, maybe more depending on the content. So, to enjoy great Atmos, keep both Dynamic EQ and vol. to ON.
A big HOWEVER, with Dynamic Vol on (Light/Medium) the Bass is neutered in the track. So basically, with Denon receivers, you can either have great Atmos or cut it in half for the correct bass... but you can't have both. I have also learned that the orignal track is mixed and intended to be listed with Dynamic Vol to off ( half of atmos) but in most movies its already mixed half assed so you crave for more - its a frustrating choice, bass or atmos. Onkyo receivers do both well in this regard, but denon is weird and makes you choose between the two. I have learned to live with Dynamic Vol to off so I have correct bass and director's intent at the expense of atmos goodness even though im wired for and using 11.2 chs but what you gonna do 😕

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post #6340 of 6375 Old 01-12-2020, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ash01748 View Post
Does anyone know if the 2018 4500 will be able to be upgraded to HDMI 2.1 when it becomes available? I read that the 8500 will be eligible what about he 6500 or 4500?
Nope. An HDMI board upgrade has only ever been offered to the "flagship" models.

Both the X4500H/X6500H are expected to be replaced with HDMI 2.1 successor models later this September.
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post #6341 of 6375 Old 01-12-2020, 05:04 PM
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As far as I know, DEQ helps Atmos a bit but what makes it or breaks it is Dynamic Vol. With Dynamic Vol on, the atmos sounds are in full swing and meant to be appreciated like that and with Dynamic Vol off, atmos sound is cut off in half it seems, maybe more depending on the content. So, to enjoy great Atmos, keep both Dynamic EQ and vol. to ON.
A big HOWEVER, with Dynamic Vol on (Light/Medium) the Bass is neutered in the track. So basically, with Denon receivers, you can either have great Atmos or cut it in half for the correct bass... but you can't have both. I have also learned that the orignal track is mixed and intended to be listed with Dynamic Vol to off ( half of atmos) but in most movies its already mixed half assed so you crave for more - its a frustrating choice, bass or atmos. Onkyo receivers do both well in this regard, but denon is weird and makes you choose between the two. I have learned to live with Dynamic Vol to off so I have correct bass and director's intent at the expense of atmos goodness even though im wired for and using 11.2 chs but what you gonna do 😕
This makes absolutely no sense at all. What are you basing these claims on?
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post #6342 of 6375 Old 01-12-2020, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
As far as I know, DEQ helps Atmos a bit but what makes it or breaks it is Dynamic Vol. With Dynamic Vol on, the atmos sounds are in full swing and meant to be appreciated like that and with Dynamic Vol off, atmos sound is cut off in half it seems, maybe more depending on the content. So, to enjoy great Atmos, keep both Dynamic EQ and vol. to ON.
A big HOWEVER, with Dynamic Vol on (Light/Medium) the Bass is neutered in the track. So basically, with Denon receivers, you can either have great Atmos or cut it in half for the correct bass... but you can't have both. I have also learned that the orignal track is mixed and intended to be listed with Dynamic Vol to off ( half of atmos) but in most movies its already mixed half assed so you crave for more - its a frustrating choice, bass or atmos. Onkyo receivers do both well in this regard, but denon is weird and makes you choose between the two. I have learned to live with Dynamic Vol to off so I have correct bass and director's intent at the expense of atmos goodness even though im wired for and using 11.2 chs but what you gonna do 😕
This makes absolutely no sense at all. What are you basing these claims on?
Solely on my X4500H and my 11.2 setup and a year of experimenting and ton of online research and readings. If you have one of these recievers you can also test this yourself with any atmos material. But the AMAZE atmos demo clip is a perfect example of this mishap between bass and atmos.

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post #6343 of 6375 Old 01-12-2020, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Solely on my X4500H and my 11.2 setup and a year of experimenting and ton of online research and readings. If you have one of these recievers you can also test this yourself with any atmos material. But the AMAZE atmos demo clip is a perfect example of this mishap between bass and atmos.
Funny, but I have not seen any other claims like you are making in either this thread or the Dolby Atmos thread.
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post #6344 of 6375 Old 01-13-2020, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Solely on my X4500H and my 11.2 setup and a year of experimenting and ton of online research and readings. If you have one of these recievers you can also test this yourself with any atmos material. But the AMAZE atmos demo clip is a perfect example of this mishap between bass and atmos.
Funny, but I have not seen any other claims like you are making in either this thread or the Dolby Atmos thread.
Yeah it is funny... after I saw this happening in my setup, I tried asking ppl in here and the atmos thread and got confirmations in small bits but nobody really wants to talk about it in the open. Conclusion was ppl just live with one or the other and most audiophiles/bassheads who listen at reference lvl keep Dynamic vol off and others enjoy better atmos with Dynamic Vol on and listen at lower levels.
Which denon do you have and whats your speaker setup?

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post #6345 of 6375 Old 01-13-2020, 05:47 PM
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Yeah it is funny... after I saw this happening in my setup, I tried asking ppl in here and the atmos thread and got confirmations in small bits but nobody really wants to talk about it in the open. Conclusion was ppl just live with one or the other and most audiophiles/bassheads who listen at reference lvl keep Dynamic vol off and others enjoy better atmos with Dynamic Vol on and listen at lower levels.
Which denon do you have and whats your speaker setup?
Frankly, I think this is a manufactured problem.

First of all, no one is mastering Atmos or any other format sound track based on Dynamic Volume or Dynamic EQ being turned on or off. That is a ridiculous claim. Not everyone uses Audyssey.

Secondly, Dynamic Volume works to minimize volume differences between loud and soft sounds. If the Atmos (or DTS:X or any other immersive codec or even an upmixer) height audio is softer than the main speakers, of course Dynamic Volume will make them louder. Is it correct? Not if it deviates from the sound mixer's intentions. Is it preferable? That's up to the listener. I doubt, however, that Atmos is "half as loud" without Dynamic Volume as it is with it. Yes, from what I have read, there are soundtracks with poorly mastered Atmos audio. But that is a problem with the sound mixer, not the play back system

Finally, if I am not mistaken, I believe that when you turn on Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ is also turned on. On the other hand, Dynamic EQ can be turned on without Dynamic Volume. Now, if you are listening at reference level with Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ turned on, depending on the Dynamic Volume setting, the sound will be loud with minimal dynamic range. Plus, at reference level, Dynamic EQ is effectively turned off with no bass or treble boost. That is an Audyssey function, not a function of the receiver brand. Turn the volume down and Dynamic range is still restricted but the bass is not "neutered".

I will believe this is a real problem when I see some solid, corroborating evidence from other users, not just one person's experience.

To answer your question of me, I have a Denon AVR-X3500H with a traditional 7.1 surround setup as my room does not support height speakers.
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post #6346 of 6375 Old 01-13-2020, 06:32 PM
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Yeah it is funny... after I saw this happening in my setup, I tried asking ppl in here and the atmos thread and got confirmations in small bits but nobody really wants to talk about it in the open. Conclusion was ppl just live with one or the other and most audiophiles/bassheads who listen at reference lvl keep Dynamic vol off and others enjoy better atmos with Dynamic Vol on and listen at lower levels.
Which denon do you have and whats your speaker setup?
Frankly, I think this is a manufactured problem.

First of all, no one is mastering Atmos or any other format sound track based on Dynamic Volume or Dynamic EQ being turned on or off. That is a ridiculous claim. Not everyone uses Audyssey.

Secondly, Dynamic Volume works to minimize volume differences between loud and soft sounds. If the Atmos (or DTS:X or any other immersive codec or even an upmixer) height audio is softer than the main speakers, of course Dynamic Volume will make them louder. Is it correct? Not if it deviates from the sound mixer's intentions. Is it preferable? That's up to the listener. I doubt, however, that Atmos is "half as loud" without Dynamic Volume as it is with it. Yes, from what I have read, there are soundtracks with poorly mastered Atmos audio. But that is a problem with the sound mixer, not the play back system

Finally, if I am not mistaken, I believe that when you turn on Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ is also turned on. On the other hand, Dynamic EQ can be turned on without Dynamic Volume. Now, if you are listening at reference level with Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ turned on, depending on the Dynamic Volume setting, the sound will be loud with minimal dynamic range. Plus, at reference level, Dynamic EQ is effectively turned off with no bass or treble boost. That is an Audyssey function, not a function of the receiver brand. Turn the volume down and Dynamic range is still restricted but the bass is not "neutered".

I will believe this is a real problem when I see some solid, corroborating evidence from other users, not just one person's experience.

To answer your question of me, I have a Denon AVR-X3500H with a traditional 7.1 surround setup as my room does not support height speakers.
I highly suggest you try this scenario on your setup in your home, def. dont take my word for it. Also, have you considered the svs prime elevation speakers, they really do fit in any room scenario for easy atmos installation.
Lastly, this is the case across two x4500h Ive had, in case you were wondering I have a defective unit.

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Last edited by b0rnarian; 01-13-2020 at 06:37 PM.
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post #6347 of 6375 Old 01-13-2020, 07:07 PM
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I highly suggest you try this scenario on your setup in your home, def. dont take my word for it. Also, have you considered the svs prime elevation speakers, they really do fit in any room scenario for easy atmos installation.
Lastly, this is the case across two x4500h Ive had, in case you were wondering I have a defective unit.
With only 7 channels in the 3500, I really have no interest in height speakers. Plus the configuration of my room is better suited for a traditional 7.1 setup.

I do not think your system is defective. I just think you are misinterpreting what is really normal operation considering how you are using your system. It's not a fault, it's just how things work.
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post #6348 of 6375 Old 01-13-2020, 07:30 PM
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Basically the only thing to defeat the filters, or create a ´gap´ in the correction filters, apart from turning audyssey off, is to lower the crossovers below what the auto setup set them at. But auto setup usually set crossovers too low so most set them higher and thats no problem at all.
So if audyssey set 90Hz for my center and surround and I lower it to 80Hz this will ruin the correction filters? I have 5.1.2 and I like to set all except sub to 80Hz crossover frequency

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post #6349 of 6375 Old 01-13-2020, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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So if audyssey set 90Hz for my center and surround and I lower it to 80Hz this will ruin the correction filters? I have 5.1.2 and I like to set all except sub to 80Hz crossover frequency

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Ruin? No. Rather simply the EQ only goes down to 90Hz, so anything less than that would be non-EQ'd.
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post #6350 of 6375 Old 01-13-2020, 07:40 PM
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Ruin? No. Rather simply the EQ only goes down to 90Hz, so anything less than that would be non-EQ'd.
Would it be better to leave it at 90Hz as set by Audyssey, not adjust to 80Hz?

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post #6351 of 6375 Old 01-13-2020, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Would it be better to leave it at 90Hz as set by Audyssey, not adjust to 80Hz?

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Yes.
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post #6352 of 6375 Old 01-14-2020, 11:18 AM
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So if audyssey set 90Hz for my center and surround and I lower it to 80Hz this will ruin the correction filters? I have 5.1.2 and I like to set all except sub to 80Hz crossover frequency

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Why do you want everything at 80Hz? Do you have sub localization issues at 90Hz?

Audyssey is measuring the in-room response of your speakers and setting an appropriate crossover. While 80Hz is often recommended as a good starting point for crossovers, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 90Hz crossover. I personally use 100Hz even though my speakers are capable well below that, it's just a matter of preference and what sounds best to you, in your room, on your system.

And just a small point of clarification; the "crossover" you refer to for the sub is not actually a crossover, it is a low pass filter (LPF for LFE). It cannot be called a crossover because there is nothing for it to cross over to.
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post #6353 of 6375 Old 01-14-2020, 12:38 PM
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Why do you want everything at 80Hz? Do you have sub localization issues at 90Hz?



Audyssey is measuring the in-room response of your speakers and setting an appropriate crossover. While 80Hz is often recommended as a good starting point for crossovers, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 90Hz crossover. I personally use 100Hz even though my speakers are capable well below that, it's just a matter of preference and what sounds best to you, in your room, on your system.



And just a small point of clarification; the "crossover" you refer to for the sub is not actually a crossover, it is a low pass filter (LPF for LFE). It cannot be called a crossover because there is nothing for it to cross over to.
Because it's a recommended setting. Since it was mentioned above that the frequency should not be adjusted below the ones set by Audyssey hence I asked. Front and front height speakers were set to 40Hz by Audyssey so I adjusted to 80Hz, surround were set to 90Hz so Iowered it to 80Hz. Based on the recommendation above, I'll set it back to 90Hz. Attached pic is the one set by Audyssey.

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post #6354 of 6375 Old 01-14-2020, 01:01 PM
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Because it's a recommended setting. Since it was mentioned above that the frequency should not be adjusted below the ones set by Audyssey hence I asked. Front and front height speakers were set to 40Hz by Audyssey so I adjusted to 80Hz, surround were set to 90Hz so Iowered it to 80Hz. Based on the recommendation above, I'll set it back to 90Hz. Attached pic is the one set by Audyssey.

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Just to clarify terminology, Audyssey doesn't "set" a crossover. It measures and reports the -3 dB point of the speakers. You can accept that point or change it manually. You probably don't want much low bass going to the surrounds or height speakers as they are usually smaller. It would be fine to set the LCR speakers to 80 hz and the surround and height speakers to 90 hz. Or just set everything to 90 hz. You won't hear a 10 hz difference.
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post #6355 of 6375 Old 01-15-2020, 04:02 PM
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Because it's a recommended setting. Since it was mentioned above that the frequency should not be adjusted below the ones set by Audyssey hence I asked. Front and front height speakers were set to 40Hz by Audyssey so I adjusted to 80Hz, surround were set to 90Hz so Iowered it to 80Hz. Based on the recommendation above, I'll set it back to 90Hz. Attached pic is the one set by Audyssey.

Wow, 40Hz. What front speakers do you have?

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post #6356 of 6375 Old 01-15-2020, 04:11 PM
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No its fine, the correction filters work anyway. Did you try the enhance dialogue option, some finds it helps.
Are you talking about "dialog control"? I believe that only does anything if the source is DTS:X (and the source has a discrete dialog object - which almost no sources actually have).

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX3500H/E...SYvdfworfs.php

I usually raise the level of the center speaker if I find the dialog too soft.

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PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.

Last edited by noobtv; 01-15-2020 at 04:16 PM.
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post #6357 of 6375 Old 01-15-2020, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by xboxhaxorz View Post
I have a 5.4.2 system technically as the 2nd sub is 2 transducers. I used the calibration, however i had to lower the volume due to roommate complaining, since it was lower the voices were too low for me, i think im a bit deaf, so i raised the center speaker quite a bit. I might have raised the atmos speakers a bit as they seemed low.

Since i did that did i ruin the XT32 calibration?

Roommate is extra sensitive to noise while i am deaf, so not a great combination lol.
I find Audyssey Dynamic EQ works amazingly well to make things sound better at lower volumes. Play with the Reference Level Offset to adjust how much effect it has.

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX3500H/E...SYphwaueoj.php

Also raise the center level if you need.

...or just kill your roommate.

Living Room: Kef Q900/Q600c/Q100, SVS SB2000, Denon AVR-X3500H.
PC Setup: Infinity R152, Sunfire XTEQ8, DIY 3e-Audio TPA3255 amp.
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post #6358 of 6375 Old 01-15-2020, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by noobtv View Post
I find Audyssey Dynamic EQ works amazingly well to make things sound better at lower volumes. Play with the Reference Level Offset to adjust how much effect it has.

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX3500H/E...SYphwaueoj.php

Also raise the center level if you need.

...or just kill your roommate.
I am doing that right now, it suggests to use the reference level at 0db for movies and my main uses are gaming and netflix, is that the setting you suggest changing?
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post #6359 of 6375 Old 01-15-2020, 06:19 PM
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Wow, 40Hz. What front speakers do you have?
Omage tower (3-way with 6.5" and 8") and bookshelf 4".

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post #6360 of 6375 Old 01-15-2020, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Leeliemix View Post
No its fine, the correction filters work anyway. Did you try the enhance dialogue option, some finds it helps.


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Important to note, the "Dialog Level Adjust" setting found on 2017 and earlier models does nothing more than modify the volume level of the Center speaker which is why on these 2018 and newer models, the setting name has been changed to "Center Level Adjust" to be more accurate.
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