"OFFICIAL" 2018 Denon "S-Series" / "X-Series" AVR Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-8) - Page 269 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8041 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by eaayoung View Post

I've had my 4500 since 1/2019. No problems with mine.
Great to know everyone. I bought one and it's going with an aircom unit as well. I'm using a separate amp and will only be powering a pair of Atmos speakers with the AVR itself so I should be fine with heat 👍

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post #8042 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by avernar View Post
OK, moving on to the next items on the list:

Have you pressed TV Audio on the remote?
On the Denon you just need the ARC setting turned on.

Sorry, just reread that you have the C7. I believe that it only supports ARC. So just ARC in the Sound Out menu and make sure Simplink is turned on somewhere.
Yes, the source is set to tv sound, arc setting is on in the denon and hdmi out and simlink is turned on in the tv and I've tried CEC on and off and neither worked. Thanks a lot for helping. I do have premium certified 4k cables and have even swapped them out to make sure I didn't have a faulty one. What can I try next?
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post #8043 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 09:55 AM
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Should I wait for 2020 model?

So now I have learned that with the renewed x4500h I just bought for $1100, if I need 5.2 + Atmos 4 channel + Zone 2, I need two more amps. I guess that's obvious since it has only 9 channels, but I didn't realize when I bought a few weeks ago. I have just ordered the Denon HEOS amp ($300) to take on the 2 channel Zone 2 (pool speakers), and maybe it will be great to have a second Airplay source so that people can just select that when they want to play music outside, or if we want to play same music inside and out, we can use it as Zone 2 from pre-amp outputs. Not sure if that's possible. I guess my question is, I could just return this and wait for the 2020 model, and get the 11 amp version, which would give me 5.2 + 4 Atmos + 2 zone 2 speakers without need for that HEOS amp.

Just thinking through this and wanted to get anyone else's perspective. FWIW, when using my zone2 with both prior sony receiver and now this denon, it's pretty clunky. everyone in the family has to have an app to be able to selectively turn off main zone, turn on zone2, etc. And in some cases, we've blasted music accidentally in the wrong place. I think having that HEOS would solve this problem, but again, just trying to get more thoughts about my setup.
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post #8044 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by porschedrifter View Post
X4500 owners, I've been reading a few negative reviews saying they've had theirs die or suffer from green screen and other failures: Has anyone here had any issues with their 4500s? Making me feel uneasy about wanting to get one.
There are always going to be a small percentage of defective units from any brand. Amazon shows a 4.4/5 rating on the X4500H.
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post #8045 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by fireman1000 View Post
Yes, the source is set to tv sound, arc setting is on in the denon and hdmi out and simlink is turned on in the tv and I've tried CEC on and off and neither worked. Thanks a lot for helping. I do have premium certified 4k cables and have even swapped them out to make sure I didn't have a faulty one. What can I try next?
Running out of ideas here. Can you actually change the Denon's volume with the LG remote when Simplink and CEC are both on?

Here's a thought. Disconnect all devices from the AVR and TV. Just the TV connected to the AVR.
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post #8046 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by neurot View Post
So now I have learned that with the renewed x4500h I just bought for $1100, if I need 5.2 + Atmos 4 channel + Zone 2, I need two more amps. I guess that's obvious since it has only 9 channels, but I didn't realize when I bought a few weeks ago. I have just ordered the Denon HEOS amp ($300) to take on the 2 channel Zone 2 (pool speakers), and maybe it will be great to have a second Airplay source so that people can just select that when they want to play music outside, or if we want to play same music inside and out, we can use it as Zone 2 from pre-amp outputs. Not sure if that's possible. I guess my question is, I could just return this and wait for the 2020 model, and get the 11 amp version, which would give me 5.2 + 4 Atmos + 2 zone 2 speakers without need for that HEOS amp.

Just thinking through this and wanted to get anyone else's perspective. FWIW, when using my zone2 with both prior sony receiver and now this denon, it's pretty clunky. everyone in the family has to have an app to be able to selectively turn off main zone, turn on zone2, etc. And in some cases, we've blasted music accidentally in the wrong place. I think having that HEOS would solve this problem, but again, just trying to get more thoughts about my setup.
1. You would only need one 2CH amp to power the Zone 2 speakers.
2. The new X4700H remains a 9CH model while the X6500H (and newer X6700H) are both 11CH models if you want an all in one unit that can do 5.2.4 + Zone 2. Note that if Airplay will be the primary streaming mode (as opposed to using one of the HEOS streaming services), then only Airplay requires the main zone to be hijacked in order to play to Zone 2.

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post #8047 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fireman1000 View Post
Yes, the source is set to tv sound, arc setting is on in the denon and hdmi out and simlink is turned on in the tv and I've tried CEC on and off and neither worked. Thanks a lot for helping. I do have premium certified 4k cables and have even swapped them out to make sure I didn't have a faulty one. What can I try next?
And the "TV Audio" source is selected on the Denon remote? Also, what is the audio source that you are trying to pass from the TV --> AVR?
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post #8048 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
1. You would only need one 2CH amp to power the Zone 2 speakers.
2. The new X4700H remains a 9CH model while the X6500H (and newer X6700H) are both 11CH models if you want an all in one unit that can do 5.2.4 + Zone 2. Note that if Airplay will be the primary streaming mode (as opposed to using one of the HEOS streaming services), then only Airplay requires the main zone to be hijacked in order to play to Zone 2.
Oops right, I meant two more amp channels. Good info about the upcoming 6700! I googled for it and found the links.

Can you clarify about airplay hijacking the main zone? I didn't understand that comment. To clarify from my side, most usage of the outdoor speakers will be from people using iphones to play music (so Airplay) and since 3 of them are kids, and the wifey doesn't like technology, they have no desire to have another app and figure all that out. The preference would be to choose airplay and pick "pool speakers" rather than open an app, go through the main zone and turn it off, then go to zone 2 and turn it on, etc. Maybe i'm overthinking how much work it really is, if we've just been doing it wrong so far. My HEOS amp will be here in a few days and I should have about a week to try it out before needing to return the 4500, if I choose to do that. I'll be out of pocket $1400 for the receiver and amp (4500 + heos), and if I do return it, it looks like the x6500h is only a couple hundred more than that. So unless the street price of 6700 is much higher, that seems like the better deal - BUT maybe the whole airplay thing is still a hassle. Thanks for the response, and reading through my stream of consciousness...
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post #8049 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
And the "TV Audio" source is selected on the Denon remote?
I assume that's what he meant by "the source is set to tv sound". But just to clarify:

HDMI Audioi Out in the Denon's Setup menu should be set to AVR and not TV. The input source as selected by the remote should be TV Audio and that's what should be displayed on the front LCD.
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post #8050 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by avernar View Post
I assume that's what he meant by "the source is set to tv sound". But just to clarify:

HDMI Audioi Out in the Denon's Setup menu should be set to AVR and not TV. The input source as selected by the remote should be TV Audio and that's what should be displayed on the front LCD.
Let's let the OP respond please. Thanks.
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post #8051 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by neurot View Post
Oops right, I meant two more amp channels. Good info about the upcoming 6700! I googled for it and found the links.

Can you clarify about airplay hijacking the main zone? I didn't understand that comment. To clarify from my side, most usage of the outdoor speakers will be from people using iphones to play music (so Airplay) and since 3 of them are kids, and the wifey doesn't like technology, they have no desire to have another app and figure all that out. The preference would be to choose airplay and pick "pool speakers" rather than open an app, go through the main zone and turn it off, then go to zone 2 and turn it on, etc. Maybe i'm overthinking how much work it really is, if we've just been doing it wrong so far. My HEOS amp will be here in a few days and I should have about a week to try it out before needing to return the 4500, if I choose to do that. I'll be out of pocket $1400 for the receiver and amp (4500 + heos), and if I do return it, it looks like the x6500h is only a couple hundred more than that. So unless the street price of 6700 is much higher, that seems like the better deal - BUT maybe the whole airplay thing is still a hassle. Thanks for the response, and reading through my stream of consciousness...
1. A second 2CH amp for Zone 2 can be as inexpensive as a stereo amp from Craigslist for $50 to an AudioSource Amp100VS for about $100. So really depends on whether you want an all in one box solution or don't mind a second amp for Zone 2. You can also repurpose the AVR you are replacing for the X4500H to power the Zone 2 speakers as well. Using a HEOS Amp allows you to treat the speakers connected to it as a separate HEOS zone if using one of the HEOS app streaming services; however, if you want to use Airplay, you would have to connect the amp to the Zone 2/3 pre-outs of the AVR.
2. The way Airplay works, is that you cannot stream directly to Zone 2/3, rather instead you must stream to the main zone (ie. hijacking whatever source is active at the time if someone is using the main zone) and then once playing in the main zone, the Airplay source can be selected to play in Zones 2/3 at which point the main zone source can be returned to whatever was selected, or turned OFF if not being used. AFAIK, it is not possible to Airplay to either the HEOS Amp or to HEOS speakers directly. I'm not an iPhone user so there may be a more elegant solution; however, another option may be to use Bluetooth to the AVR or HEOS Amp if within close proximity to where people sit outdoors.
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post #8052 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by avernar View Post
Running out of ideas here. Can you actually change the Denon's volume with the LG remote when Simplink and CEC are both on?

Here's a thought. Disconnect all devices from the AVR and TV. Just the TV connected to the AVR.
Thanks for everyone's suggestions. I tried every suggestion and as a last resort I tried avenar's suggestion of unplugging everything from the TV except to the receiver and it works. Before that, I tried setup assistant in the menu and then TV audio connection and the menu wouldn't go any further. Thanks to all! There must be a conflict with one of my devices connected to the TV.
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post #8053 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 11:43 AM
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@chi_guy50 ,,,,,,will not be able to check until later tonight. If you have an 8500 and an Elite, why can't you do a couple and see for yourself?.
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post #8054 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Let's let the OP respond please. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman1000 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by avernar View Post
Have you pressed TV Audio on the remote?
Yes, the source is set to tv sound
He did. You missed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman1000 View Post
Thanks for everyone's suggestions. I tried every suggestion and as a last resort I tried avenar's suggestion of unplugging everything from the TV except to the receiver and it works. Before that, I tried setup assistant in the menu and then TV audio connection and the menu wouldn't go any further. Thanks to all! There must be a conflict with one of my devices connected to the TV.
When you figure out which device is messing things up you can isolate it with on of these: https://www.amazon.com/Lindy-HDMI-Ad.../dp/B00DL48KVI
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post #8055 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 01:13 PM
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He did. You missed it.


When you figure out which device is messing things up you can isolate it with on of these: https://www.amazon.com/Lindy-HDMI-Ad.../dp/B00DL48KVI
Thanks! I've never anything like that. I haven't tried anything else yet because I can actually hook everything up through the receiver but I'll try to see which device was causing the problem.
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post #8056 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by porschedrifter View Post
X4500 owners, I've been reading a few negative reviews saying they've had theirs die or suffer from green screen and other failures: Has anyone here had any issues with their 4500s? Making me feel uneasy about wanting to get one.
N=1 here, but my first unit went bad during initial set up (green screen tint), exchanged for a second unit which worked fine for about 3 months before another video issue (random jagged lines throughout picture that started with one input and then spread to others). Took about two weeks to repair, that was maybe 8 months ago, and it's been working great ever since.
That being said, I'd buy it again if I had to do over--to me it just sounded so much better than the Yamaha and Pioneer I auditioned at the same time. I haven't added an exterior fan yet, but I probably will. The 4500's video card runs much hotter than the other units I trialed. After about an hour or so at idle the top of the case measures ~110F with an IR pyrometer, but funny enough after cranking a blockbuster type movie for 1 1/2 or 2 hours it's maybe 115F, possibly because I've got another amp handling FL and FR channels.

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post #8057 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 02:37 PM
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The 4500's video card runs much hotter than the other units I trialed. After about an hour or so at idle the top of the case measures ~110F with an IR pyrometer, but funny enough after cranking a blockbuster type movie for 1 1/2 or 2 hours it's maybe 115F, possibly because I've got another amp handling FL and FR channels.
If you have reasonably efficient speakers, idle power and program power aren't too different because the Denon doesn't really do anything to save power unless you engage ECO mode. Maybe in the future as AVRs move to all Class D we can solve this issue, but not today.

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post #8058 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MRAYB View Post
@chi_guy50 ,,,,,,will not be able to check until later tonight. If you have an 8500 and an Elite, why can't you do a couple and see for yourself?.

I was hoping to profit from your experience and knowledge before mucking around with my QS settings. After all, there's no point reinventing the wheel! Plus, I wanted to see if anyone else had anything to say on the topic for my own and general info.


(Read: I was too lazy.)
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post #8059 of 8389 Old 06-02-2020, 04:03 PM
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Hey gang, have a few questions before I spend money. We're looking to add a TV to our back patio.

Currently own the AVR-X3500H, which is supporting our living room as well as our back patio for a separate Sonos zone by way of Zone 2 pre-outs to a Sonos AMP and Polk subwoofer amp. This setup has served us well, but we'd really like to add a TV to our back patio.

I've read and re-read the Denon manual, but what I'm trying to understand is if I can simply run HDMI from Zone 2 OUT on the Denon to the new TV and still be able to operate the Sonos zone via Zone 2 source selection on the remote. I realize I would likely NOT be able to listen to music on the patio AND have the TV on the patio running with audio at the same time, but can I operate one activity at a time using the remote or is it one or the other period due to wiring or AVR limitations?

In case it matters, I'm using a Comcast cable box for cable TV in the living room and am unfortunately unable to leverage Live TV cable streaming due to the fact we do not have cable for our home internet service--otherwise this question would be moot.

Our hope is that we can select Zone 2 source with the remote to either listen to music or watch live cable tv on the back patio.

Couple more quick questions:

Is there any way to utilize the existing patio speakers for the TV audio?
The manual is a little confusing. If I'm watching TV with audio in Zone 2, is TV in main zone interrupted if the source is the same (Comcast cable box)?

Thank you in advance for any help or guidance here.

Answering my own question in case it helps anybody down the road....

Pulled our kitchen Roku TV and tested it out by connecting to Zone 2 HDMI on X3500H. Switching Zone 2 to CBL/SAT on remote passes picture and audio to kitchen TV. I'm able to run patio Sonos music as I had been previously and can now switch to line-in on the Sonos app for the Sonos AMP to pass cable TV audio to the patio speakers/sub without lag or lip sync issues. Happy camper and will be ordering up the TV, mount and cabling.

"the one who has the most fun wins."
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post #8060 of 8389 Old 06-03-2020, 11:41 AM
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No Zone 2 Audio (external speakers) unless main zone selects same input

Admittedly I haven't done extensive troubleshooting, but have come across a somewhat odd situation. Hopefully I can explain it well.

X4500H
Zone 2 contains TV connect via HDMI zone 2 from X4500H and external speakers powered by the X4500H through an assignable amp.
Apple TV connected only via HDMI


Getting Apple TV audio through the external speakers in zone 2 requires the main zone to also have apple tv selected as the input source. Video isn't an issue.

For example, spotify in main zone, and apple tv through external speakers in zone 2 is not possible. Switch main zone to Apple TV, and all works.

Is this user error, and a setting could correct? Or some kind of limitation I am running into here.

Thanks!
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post #8061 of 8389 Old 06-03-2020, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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No Zone 2 Audio (external speakers) unless main zone selects same input

Admittedly I haven't done extensive troubleshooting, but have come across a somewhat odd situation. Hopefully I can explain it well.

X4500H
Zone 2 contains TV connect via HDMI zone 2 from X4500H and external speakers powered by the X4500H through an assignable amp.
Apple TV connected only via HDMI

Getting Apple TV audio through the external speakers in zone 2 requires the main zone to also have apple tv selected as the input source. Video isn't an issue.

For example, spotify in main zone, and apple tv through external speakers in zone 2 is not possible. Switch main zone to Apple TV, and all works.

Is this user error, and a setting could correct? Or some kind of limitation I am running into here.

Thanks!
The Zone 2 source must be PCM 2.0 in order to pass successfully to the Zone 2 speakers, which is why ALL ZONE STEREO works as it downmixes the main zone to stereo and then also passes the stereo audio to the Zones 2/3. If PCM 2.0, it should be able to play independently from the main zone source.
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post #8062 of 8389 Old 06-03-2020, 12:51 PM
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The Zone 2 source must be PCM 2.0 in order to pass successfully to the Zone 2 speakers, which is why ALL ZONE STEREO works as it downmixes the main zone to stereo and then also passes the stereo audio to the Zones 2/3. If PCM 2.0, it should be able to play independently from the main zone source.
Thank you for the quick reply. I do have Zone 2 PCM selected (other option being HDMI pass through I think). If I select Blu-Ray in the main zone (connected via HDMI and Digital Coax) I can have Apple TV audio via external speakers in Zone 2, and Blu-Ray Audio in Main Zone.

It appears it is only when main zone wants to listen to spotify (HEOS) that Apple TV audio cannot be had through external speakers in Zone 2. It appears the limitation may be that the Apply TV only has HDMI out, and no optical/coax digital.

Hope I explained that all correctly.

Thanks!
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post #8063 of 8389 Old 06-03-2020, 01:40 PM
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Explore the various surround modes and determine which you prefer. I use DTS Neural:X for all Dolby and DTS audio.



Same here
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post #8064 of 8389 Old 06-03-2020, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BurningMustard View Post
Thank you for the quick reply. I do have Zone 2 PCM selected (other option being HDMI pass through I think). If I select Blu-Ray in the main zone (connected via HDMI and Digital Coax) I can have Apple TV audio via external speakers in Zone 2, and Blu-Ray Audio in Main Zone.

It appears it is only when main zone wants to listen to spotify (HEOS) that Apple TV audio cannot be had through external speakers in Zone 2. It appears the limitation may be that the Apply TV only has HDMI out, and no optical/coax digital.

Hope I explained that all correctly.

Thanks!
The Zone 2 source (ie. Apple TV) audio must already be PCM 2.0 when it leaves the Apple TV (ie. not based on a setting on the AVR). The X3500H and higher models, to include the X4500H, are able to pass PCM 2.0 over HDMI to Zone 2. If PCM 2.0 (and not multi channel 5.1) audio is passing from the Apple TV then it should pass to Zone 2 and it doesn't matter what source is playing in the main zone, HEOS or otherwise.
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post #8065 of 8389 Old 06-03-2020, 05:40 PM
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I'd like to, again @jdsmoothie for hooking me up with a fantastic deal on the X4500H!

This is the third AVR I've bought from him over the years, and every experience is fantastic. Never pushy, listens to the needs, helps find the right solution.

Cheers
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My Room 7.3:
LG OLED65B7A; Sony UBP-X700; Sony Playstation 4 Pro; Apple TV 4K; SONOS Connect
Denon AVR-X3400H; Klipsch RF-7 III (L/R), RC-64 III (C), RP-250S (SL/SR), RP-240D (RL/RR); PSA V1510 (x3 SW)
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post #8066 of 8389 Old 06-04-2020, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scars View Post
I'd like to, again @jdsmoothie for hooking me up with a fantastic deal on the X4500H!

This is the third AVR I've bought from him over the years, and every experience is fantastic. Never pushy, listens to the needs, helps find the right solution.

Cheers
-Scars
im thinking of bying the exact same receiver but im kind of worried about earc feature, because i want to use them with a next gen console. what do you think would be best 4500 or the new 3700 model which will have hdmi 2.1?
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post #8067 of 8389 Old 06-04-2020, 04:15 AM
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Just ordered a 4500,
Is it worth buying a s6 Aircom unit? Or are the inbuilt fans good enough?
I have heard through a YouTube video(can’t remember which) that it will pass HDR10+ without issue, can anyone confirm? If not the ub420 has two outputs for HDMI anyway.
I’d imagine the eARC works well? More so looking ahead for future updates like new consoles etc.

Thanks
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post #8068 of 8389 Old 06-04-2020, 04:27 AM
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Denon x4700H

I just saw the video in YouTube about the Denon X4700H

Denon AVC-X4700H.
With 200W per channel, this performance-tuned Denon receiver delivers a truly immersive 3D audio experience with eARC support.
The AVC-X4700H features the latest in 3D audio formats such as Dolby Atmos®, Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization Technology, DTS:X®, DTS Virtual:X™, IMAX® Enhanced and Auro-3D®.
The AVC-X4700H also supports the latest video technologies such as 8K/60Hz and 4K/120Hz pass-through, Dolby Vision™, HDR10, HDR10+, Dynamic HDR, HLG, as well as 8K upscaling and HDCP 2.3 support on all HDMI inputs (8 in/3 out). HEOS Built-in wireless music streaming (Wi-Fi and Bluetooth) supports Spotify®, Amazon Music HD, Tidal, Deezer and more. Works with Amazon Alexa, Google Assistant and Apple Siri for seamless voice control.

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I just saw that you have started the new thread. Thanks.

Keep it cool. HT room: L11 x W18 x H8 feet (1584 cuft)
AV Equipment: AVR: Denon X4500H | 5.2 configuration | Speakers: Athena: 2 AS-F1 fronts, 1 AS-C1 center, 2 AS-B1 surrounds | Subwoofers: 2 SVS SB-1000 | TV: Vizio 4K M70D3 |
In another room: Denon AVR-X4000 | Def. Tech. SSA-42 and SM350 | Athena AS-P6000 subwoofer | TV Samsung 58" 1080P Plasma |

Last edited by flmiami; 06-04-2020 at 04:37 AM.
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post #8069 of 8389 Old 06-04-2020, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade 77 View Post
im thinking of bying the exact same receiver but im kind of worried about earc feature, because i want to use them with a next gen console. what do you think would be best 4500 or the new 3700 model which will have hdmi 2.1?
Depends on what features you want. The X4500H is a higher level model that has additional features not found on the X3700H (eg. Zone 3, Auro 3D, Custom 2CH settings as noted in post 1 of this thread); however, the X3700H being 2 years newer has features not found on the X4500H (see post 1 of the 2020 Denon AVR Owner's thread).
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post #8070 of 8389 Old 06-04-2020, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oohahh View Post
Just ordered a 4500,
Is it worth buying a s6 Aircom unit? Or are the inbuilt fans good enough?
I have heard through a YouTube video(can’t remember which) that it will pass HDR10+ without issue, can anyone confirm? If not the ub420 has two outputs for HDMI anyway.
I’d imagine the eARC works well? More so looking ahead for future updates like new consoles etc.

Thanks
Depends on how much free ventilation space there is around the unit, ideally 3-4" above and open front and back. If that is not the case, then adding an Aircom unit may be justified, although can always be purchased after you've been able to use the AVR for awhile and determine for yourself. The internal fans are likely to never come on as they only start at 158F and the AVR is not likely to go above 110F under normal operating conditions. Note also if the ECO MODE is used, it will generally lower the temp by 10F with likely no negative effect on audio quality.

AFAIK, only the newer 2020 models will pass HDR10+.
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