The Ultimate Budget 11ch Atmos Amp! - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 76 Old 11-02-2018, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dd2424 View Post
So it looks like what I need to do is to re-solder all of these correctly right? I'm going to need the red to go to pin 2. The black to pin 3. Both outer to pin 1.

Yes, that is correct.
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post #32 of 76 Old 11-07-2018, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgard1an View Post
How would you guys compare this to the Creston CNAMPX-7X200
This 16x60 (and the 12X60) amplifier uses the exact same amp boards & transformers, but the difference is that the 7X200 has 7 boards which are internally bridged while this amp has 8 boards divided into 2 channels - but all 8 boards can be *externally* bridged to provide 220W/ch to all channels. If your AVR/pre-amp has XLR outputs then it's super simple, all you need is a single XLR-to-RCA breakout cable. If you don't have XLR out then it becomes a little more involved since you need to use an external device like the Matchbox HD or Samson S-Convert to put out a balanced XLR signal which you can then split with the y-cable.

And one thing to keep in mind is if you're using speakers with a high enough sensitivity, ~94dB or higher, then you really don't even need to mess with bridging the channels because you'll be able to hit 105dB reference levels at a 10ft listening position with a single speaker getting just 65W.

Either way, bridged or not, this thing is a great Atmos 11ch amp at a much cheaper price than most other options. And if you don't end up bridging them it leaves you an additional 5 channels for future expansion, such as adding a few more side surrounds or upgrading to an 13.2 or even 15.2 receiver without having to change amps. It's one hell of a piece of gear for the money!
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post #33 of 76 Old 11-29-2018, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard71 View Post
This 16x60 (and the 12X60) amplifier uses the exact same amp boards & transformers, but the difference is that the 7X200 has 7 boards which are internally bridged while this amp has 8 boards divided into 2 channels - but all 8 boards can be *externally* bridged to provide 220W/ch to all channels. If your AVR/pre-amp has XLR outputs then it's super simple, all you need is a single XLR-to-RCA breakout cable. If you don't have XLR out then it becomes a little more involved since you need to use an external device like the Matchbox HD or Samson S-Convert to put out a balanced XLR signal which you can then split with the y-cable.

And one thing to keep in mind is if you're using speakers with a high enough sensitivity, ~94dB or higher, then you really don't even need to mess with bridging the channels because you'll be able to hit 105dB reference levels at a 10ft listening position with a single speaker getting just 65W.

Either way, bridged or not, this thing is a great Atmos 11ch amp at a much cheaper price than most other options. And if you don't end up bridging them it leaves you an additional 5 channels for future expansion, such as adding a few more side surrounds or upgrading to an 13.2 or even 15.2 receiver without having to change amps. It's one hell of a piece of gear for the money!
For bridging, does the XLR-RCA splitting cable have to be of a specific type? I purchased the cable from Amazon and it doesn't appear to be inverting the signal for bridging. Just like dd2424, there is no sound when I connect both RCA, but there is sound with 1 RCA. I am using the XLR output from Marantz AV8805. Any thoughts??? The cable is called



Neewer 1.5 meters/5 feet XLR Female Plug to 2 RCA Plug Adapter Cable Splitter Audio Cable
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post #34 of 76 Old 12-03-2018, 01:48 PM
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Disassemble the XLR side and confirm that it is properly wired (post #26 ).
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post #35 of 76 Old 12-08-2018, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgard1an View Post
How would you guys compare this to the Creston CNAMPX-7X200
Literally the same amp internals (boards, power suppliers, transformers). The main difference is the boards on the CNAMPX-7X200 are internally bridged so there is just one output per channel on the back of the amp. This amp needs to be bridged externally as described earlier in the post. And even if you need to use 4 of the Matchbox HD boxes @ $50 ea ($200 total), with the $300-$400 price of the amp you're still only at $500-$700 compared to $800-$1000+ that you'll typically pay for the 7X200 - and you'll have 1 extra 220W channel (8 rather than 7).
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post #36 of 76 Old 12-08-2018, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rrnandy View Post
For bridging, does the XLR-RCA splitting cable have to be of a specific type? I purchased the cable from Amazon and it doesn't appear to be inverting the signal for bridging. Just like dd2424, there is no sound when I connect both RCA, but there is sound with 1 RCA. I am using the XLR output from Marantz AV8805. Any thoughts??? The cable is called



Neewer 1.5 meters/5 feet XLR Female Plug to 2 RCA Plug Adapter Cable Splitter Audio Cable
I can't be an unbalanced splitter cable where it just takes a single in-phase/hot signal (pin 2) and sends the same signal to each RCA. It needs to be a cable where it uses Pin2 to one RCA, Pin3 to the other RCA, and Ping3 (ground) to the outer ring of each. One that I have CONFIRMED working is the Seismic Audio XLR-to-RCA splitter. You can get a 4-pack on their website for $30, so two 4-packs to bridge all 8 channels = $60. The only drawback to those is they're only 6" ea, so you'll also need to use an XLR patch cable or female-to-male RCA extension cable to get the signal to reach your amp.

Or if you don't mind waiting a few weeks, you can get these on AliExpress shipped straight from China and they worked perfectly. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Audi...819951738.html They're twice the length and 1/2 the price of the Seismic cables, and these are the same ones I got and they work great!
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post #37 of 76 Old 12-08-2018, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's what the XLR connection should look like if you unscrew the end of it and slide the cover off. Pin2 (on the left, which is the in-phase signal) goes to the center pin of one RCA, Pin3 (middle, which is the out-of-phase signal) goes to the center pin of the other RCA, and pin1 (right, which is the ground) connects to the outer ring of both RCA's.

If you happen to buy splitter cables that don't work, and you open them up and they don't look like this, with a bit of simple soldering you can move the connections around so that they look like this and you'll be all set. Or, just return them and buy one of the cables I mentioned above which are guaranteed to work out of the box.
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post #38 of 76 Old 12-08-2018, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a more detailed illustration.
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post #39 of 76 Old 12-08-2018, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Or if you need a longer run and don't want to have to use an extender cable, you can build your own cables using a dual-RCA cable and attach a female XLR connector to one end as shown in the pictures above. The RCA ends are available from Monoprice for $2.15/ea, and it shouldn't take more than 5 mins each to attach the ends with a soldering iron.

Two of these: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5346 and one of these: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=601652 will make you two 6ft cables for about $5/ea!
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post #40 of 76 Old 12-12-2018, 08:01 AM
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Thank you so much for laying out all these options. I was originally looking for the most convenient solution, but as I discovered and others explained, some of the cables with XLR-F on one end and 2 RCA on the other are simply splitters from the same 2 pins with the third pin unused. So the specific cables that you recommended would serve the purpose well. I actually did a successful temporary bridging experiment by cutting an XLR cable (leaving the Female connector side intact) and joining it with a pair of cut RCA cables according to the diagram and it works fine. Obviously, this is just an experiment to make sure that the bridging works as expected. But with the success of the experiment, I am tempted to take the DIY approach by soldering XLR connectors, as I have a huge number of high quality RCA cables. However, these cables seem to have a third wire (instead of standard 2 wires). It appears that the third wire is simply a second ground wire. Do you anticipate any problem with using these RCA cables? Also, just for my technical understanding, does bridging this way make it a balanced connection (since we are inverting the signal)? Finally, the regarding the pre-built cables from China, how can we be sure that they are using all three pins in the XLR side? If I have to solder it again, that kind of defeats the purpose. Of course, if you have personally used those cables, then obviously they will work. Thank you...
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post #41 of 76 Old 12-12-2018, 08:07 AM
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Sorry, I missed the comment that you have actually used the cables from China. Thank you...
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post #42 of 76 Old 01-12-2019, 07:34 AM
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Shouldn’t it be possible to do a RCA connection without the Henry Matchbox ? If you look at the internal block diagram at page 6 in the manual:

https://www.crestron.com/getmedia/d5...3/mg_cnxbrmo_1

It can’t be that hard to DIY something here?

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post #43 of 76 Old 01-31-2019, 01:40 PM
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I found this thread yesterday, searched on eBay, and picked up an amp near me today for free because they could not turn it on. I am very excited! The amp is in decent shape, but it looks like it was made in 2004; see the attached picture and see if you can discern the date. It looks like 30-04, but the first three is obviously incorrect, so it must be 10-04 for October, 2004.

The nice gentleman told me it worked before they pulled it out, and it did not see much use in their mobile display application, and that it was overkill, but the guy who set it up for them was an "audio guy".

Since it did not come with a power supply, I ordered this 24 VDC Power Supply from Amazon.

Since it also did not come with the CresNet connector, I ordered this Phoenix Type Connector 4-Pole 5mm Pitch 4-pack from Parts Express.

I also ordered some of the XLRF to RCAM (x2) adapters posted by the OP for external bi-amping.

I don't really need this until I get a new processor later this year at the earliest, but at least I will be ready.

Mark

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post #44 of 76 Old 02-02-2019, 07:38 AM
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I connected my 24VDC power supply, and my amp switched on. I let it sit for a couple of hours, no connections, and it wasn’t even warm. Is that normal for this particular design of amp?

Edit: I tested the amp tonight to make sure it worked, and noticed I had not plugged in the AC cord; I only had the 24V power supply for the CresNet board connected. Doh! Did I mention it is really dark in my theater?

Anyway, all the channels work fine. Now I am going to let it sit idle to see how warm it gets.


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post #45 of 76 Old 02-13-2019, 01:10 PM
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I was looking to see if this can be used in bridged mode with 4-ohm speakers, and the specifications documentation, located here, only state what is in the opening post, which is:

Output Power
60 watts per channel at 8 ohms
90 watts per channel at 4 ohms
220 watts at 8 ohms bridged (channels 1-4 and 13-16 only; requires CNXBRMO, sold separately),

However, unless I missed it, I did not notice anyone mention to only bridge channels 1-4 and 13-16, which is 4 channels bridged total. I did see the four-channel bridging limitation mentioned, just not the specific channels to use, so I will follow those instructions.

So, do we know if this can be bridged and used with 4-ohm speakers?

Thanks.

Mark
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post #46 of 76 Old 02-20-2019, 05:38 PM
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The Ultimate Budget 11ch Atmos Amp!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd2424 View Post
That actually helps a lot. Thank you. I think I see what is going on now. I took a couple pictures but it may be hard to see. So it looks like those tiny red and black wires that would be the center of the RCA both go to Pin 2. The outer shield of the RCA's both go to Pins 1 and 3. So it looks like what I need to do is to re-solder all of these correctly right? I'm going to need the red to go to pin 2. The black to pin 3. Both outer to pin 1.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard71 View Post
Here's what the XLR connection should look like if you unscrew the end of it and slide the cover off. Pin2 (on the left, which is the in-phase signal) goes to the center pin of one RCA, Pin3 (middle, which is the out-of-phase signal) goes to the center pin of the other RCA, and pin1 (right, which is the ground) connects to the outer ring of both RCA's.



If you happen to buy splitter cables that don't work, and you open them up and they don't look like this, with a bit of simple soldering you can move the connections around so that they look like this and you'll be all set. Or, just return them and buy one of the cables I mentioned above which are guaranteed to work out of the box.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard71 View Post
Here's a more detailed illustration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard71 View Post
I can't be an unbalanced splitter cable where it just takes a single in-phase/hot signal (pin 2) and sends the same signal to each RCA. It needs to be a cable where it uses Pin2 to one RCA, Pin3 to the other RCA, and Ping3 (ground) to the outer ring of each. One that I have CONFIRMED working is the Seismic Audio XLR-to-RCA splitter. You can get a 4-pack on their website for $30, so two 4-packs to bridge all 8 channels = $60. The only drawback to those is they're only 6" ea, so you'll also need to use an XLR patch cable or female-to-male RCA extension cable to get the signal to reach your amp.



Or if you don't mind waiting a few weeks, you can get these on AliExpress shipped straight from China and they worked perfectly. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Audi...819951738.html They're twice the length and 1/2 the price of the Seismic cables, and these are the same ones I got and they work great!


I bought 4 splitter cables on eBay (here is the link), and they are wired incorrectly. In fairness to the vendor, the Pinout was not listed, so they are accurately described as a splitter. The quality is really bad, however, so I am just going to build my own using Neutrik XLR's and RCA's, but that was a waste of $33.12 (for four cables)!



I will take some pictures to show you all. It is in a phone case bag.



Both RCA’s soldered to Pin 2:




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post #47 of 76 Old 02-20-2019, 06:58 PM
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Roughly about the same quality as the cables I got that I had to re-solder. I wish there was an easy way to do something internally to the RCA inputs to eliminate that.
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post #48 of 76 Old 02-21-2019, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I was looking to see if this can be used in bridged mode with 4-ohm speakers, and the specifications documentation, located here, only state what is in the opening post, which is:

Output Power
60 watts per channel at 8 ohms
90 watts per channel at 4 ohms
220 watts at 8 ohms bridged (channels 1-4 and 13-16 only; requires CNXBRMO, sold separately),

However, unless I missed it, I did not notice anyone mention to only bridge channels 1-4 and 13-16, which is 4 channels bridged total. I did see the four-channel bridging limitation mentioned, just not the specific channels to use, so I will follow those instructions.

So, do we know if this can be bridged and used with 4-ohm speakers?

Thanks.

Mark
Anyone?
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post #49 of 76 Old 02-26-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post
Anyone?
I don't believe that it is 4 ohm stable when bridged but haven't tried to test it.
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post #50 of 76 Old 02-26-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I connected my 24VDC power supply, and my amp switched on. I let it sit for a couple of hours, no connections, and it wasn’t even warm. Is that normal for this particular design of amp?

Edit: I tested the amp tonight to make sure it worked, and noticed I had not plugged in the AC cord; I only had the 24V power supply for the CresNet board connected. Doh! Did I mention it is really dark in my theater?

Anyway, all the channels work fine. Now I am going to let it sit idle to see how warm it gets.


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I have two of them and I've never had either one get that warm. There's barely any heat really. And that is after watching a couple of movies cranked up. My Denon receiver without any speakers hooked up to it gets really warm.
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post #51 of 76 Old 02-26-2019, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dd2424 View Post
I don't believe that it is 4 ohm stable when bridged but haven't tried to test it.
I would think (hoping!) that it would be fine, as it is made by ATI, and built like a tank. I know that is not very scientific, but unfortunately, I already hoisted this beast into (the top of ) my 72" rack this weekend, so I guess I am have to be the guinea pig for bridging to 4-Ohm speakers. If there is anything I should do to test it scientifically, please let me know.

Mark
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post #52 of 76 Old 02-26-2019, 01:30 PM
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Original post just gives a 8 ohm rating. Pretty rare to be able to run 4 ohms bridged.
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post #53 of 76 Old 03-01-2019, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I was looking to see if this can be used in bridged mode with 4-ohm speakers, and the specifications documentation, located here, only state what is in the opening post, which is:

Output Power
60 watts per channel at 8 ohms
90 watts per channel at 4 ohms
220 watts at 8 ohms bridged (channels 1-4 and 13-16 only; requires CNXBRMO, sold separately),

However, unless I missed it, I did not notice anyone mention to only bridge channels 1-4 and 13-16, which is 4 channels bridged total. I did see the four-channel bridging limitation mentioned, just not the specific channels to use, so I will follow those instructions.

So, do we know if this can be bridged and used with 4-ohm speakers?

Thanks.

Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd2424 View Post
I don't believe that it is 4 ohm stable when bridged but haven't tried to test it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I would think (hoping!) that it would be fine, as it is made by ATI, and built like a tank. I know that is not very scientific, but unfortunately, I already hoisted this beast into (the top of ) my 72" rack this weekend, so I guess I am have to be the guinea pig for bridging to 4-Ohm speakers. If there is anything I should do to test it scientifically, please let me know.

Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by dd2424 View Post
Original post just gives a 8 ohm rating. Pretty rare to be able to run 4 ohms bridged.
Confirmation:

I contacted ATI, and it was actually Sanjay Durani @sdurani who answered the query. While the amplifier was not in their database due to age, he was kind enough to check with the engineers and advised: "They barely remember that amp (must have been a long time ago). While I don't know the specifics of this amp, most distribution amps typically have one output device per channel, so they're not great with low impedance loads. If you bridge two channels, then each channels sees half the impedance. So a 4 ohm load will be 2 ohms to each bridged channel. I doubt they're stable at such low impedances. That's probably why the bridged spec is limited to 8 ohms."

So there you have it folks. Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Mark
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post #54 of 76 Old 03-01-2019, 08:19 AM
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Now we just need to figure out a mod to not have to use Henry Matchbox devices
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post #55 of 76 Old 03-01-2019, 04:37 PM
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Here is my setup.


Yamaha RX-A3050 receiver
2 Klipsch RF-7II front speakers
1 Klipsch RC-64II center speaker
4 Klipsch RP-250S surround speakers
1 BIC America F12 sub
1 SVS PB13-Ultra sub.


I am looking to add 4 Klipsch RP-500SA atmos speakers but to do that, I need an external amp. If I were to get this Crestron CNAMPX-16X60 amp, how would you recommend setting up my speakers? Use my receiver with the front speakers and then all others speakers from the Crestron? Crestron to the fronts and then all other speakers from my receiver? All from the Crestron? And bridged or regular? Thank you in advance.
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post #56 of 76 Old 03-01-2019, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum151 View Post
Here is my setup.


Yamaha RX-A3050 receiver
2 Klipsch RF-7II front speakers
1 Klipsch RC-64II center speaker
4 Klipsch RP-250S surround speakers
1 BIC America F12 sub
1 SVS PB13-Ultra sub.


I am looking to add 4 Klipsch RP-500SA atmos speakers but to do that, I need an external amp. If I were to get this Crestron CNAMPX-16X60 amp, how would you recommend setting up my speakers? Use my receiver with the front speakers and then all others speakers from the Crestron? Crestron to the fronts and then all other speakers from my receiver? All from the Crestron? And bridged or regular? Thank you in advance.


Depends on the specs of your receiver and speakers.


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post #57 of 76 Old 03-05-2019, 12:20 PM
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I don't have the knowledge that most of you in here do. Anyone have any opinions?
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post #58 of 76 Old 03-18-2019, 03:50 PM
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Will the Art T8 work for converting the rca to xlr?

I cannot post link to the art t8 since I have less than 5 posts.

Thanks


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post #59 of 76 Old 03-19-2019, 10:50 AM
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FYSA: Just made my cables today and when running Audyssey, on the bridged channels I received the "Speaker Error" notifying me they are wired out of phase. First I tried all variations of speaker wire connections on the back of the amp, and the only thing that cleared the error was connecting the negative to the top terminal, and the positive to the bottom terminal. Then I realized I probably made an error with the cables, and when I looked closer, and I have pins 2 and 3 reversed because I was making straight XLR cables as well, and wired all the XLR connections to XLR standards with my red and black conductor cable.

Oh well, easy fix by reversing the RCA connectors, and resetting the speaker wire connections on the back of the amp to the correct orientation. I either have to live with a color mismatch on the RCA cables or the speaker cables.

Thanks.

Mark
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post #60 of 76 Old 04-01-2019, 08:03 AM
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I recently got 2 of these amps and have made one work in my set up, bridging 10 of the channels to feed the 5 in my 5.2.4 setup. Thanks jleonard for the write up! I even got a 12v trigger to work by adding a small relay and 24v PS. I removed the crestron board and jumped all the output relays. All seems to be working fine and made a huge difference in SQ!


I just picked up a new set of speakers and realized the center is 4ohm. It's an old "bigfoot" onix rocket RS200. Do you guys think I will be okay running it off of one of the bridged channels? Or am I asking for trouble? I also realized I have been running my current CC, an Axiom VP150 off of it, and it is 6 ohms. So far no problem, but maybe not good. This is my living room set up, so it doesn't see abusive duty by any means. Maybe I'll be ok as long as I take it easy!


I'd really love to run the onix rockets, I got the matching towers and rears and love the way they look. Not sure why they made the CC 4ohm??


Thanks!
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