The Ultimate Budget 11ch Atmos Amp! - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 187 Old 04-01-2019, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterl944 View Post
I recently got 2 of these amps and have made one work in my set up, bridging 10 of the channels to feed the 5 in my 5.2.4 setup. Thanks jleonard for the write up! I even got a 12v trigger to work by adding a small relay and 24v PS. I removed the crestron board and jumped all the output relays. All seems to be working fine and made a huge difference in SQ!


Thanks!


What aspects of the sound quality do feel were improved by removal of the Crestron board and jumping the output relays? Any pics of the modifications or process?

Thanks.

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post #62 of 187 Old 04-01-2019, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
What aspects of the sound quality do feel were improved by removal of the Crestron board and jumping the output relays? Any pics of the modifications or process?

Thanks.

Mark


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Oh, I meant adding the amp to my system added to the SQ. I was just using my AVR's amp.


I do have pictures, but I need a couple more posts to be able to post them.


I had a small 24v wall wart to the crestron connector, and had the override button pressed. It worked just fine like that, but if I ever lost power the button would have to be pressed again and it's not very accessible. Also, amp had to be turned on and off manually on the front. So I wanted a 12v trigger.



Basically, I used a small 12v relay (low mA) to switch 115v (tapped off incoming power) to a small 24v PS mounted inside kinda where the crestron board was. The 24v turns on the main relay and also goes to the relay board. On the 9 pin connector off the relay board, jumper the top 8 pins and feed -24v, the bottom pin gets +24. I mounted a 3.5mm jack on the back and ran a trigger wire to my AVR. As soon as I can, I'll post pictures. I think jleonard mentioned doing it like this, but I don't know that he ever did.



Thanks!
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post #63 of 187 Old 04-01-2019, 05:32 PM
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By the way, if anyone needs to convert from unbalanced to balanced, I found another option to the Henry Matchbox.


I can't post links, but search RDL FP-UBC6. It'll do 6 channels in one box. Search Ebay, I got 2 of them for $180 shipped!
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post #64 of 187 Old 04-01-2019, 05:59 PM
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Sorry to bring up the 4ohm thing again, but I was doing some research on the bigfoot RSC200 center I have. According to the seller back in the day, the 4ohm load is only at LF above 80hz it is more like 6-8. They advertised their speakers conservatively. This is kind of what I suspected, the high load is only at LF. I bet a lot of other speakers are like this, it's variable and highest at LF. I am crossing at 80hz. I may take a chance and try it, monitor heat and see what happens. I don't have much invested in the amp anyway. I'll post my results!
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post #65 of 187 Old 04-11-2019, 02:35 PM
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This may seem a bit silly but I'm curious about how much power this draws.

In looking at the specs from Crestron, they state:
"Main Power: 120 Volts AC ±10%, 50-60 Hz, 1800 Watts"
so it could potentially draw 15 Amps. Would this need to be on a dedicated circuit with it's own 20 Amp circuit breaker?
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post #66 of 187 Old 04-12-2019, 05:03 PM
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Ideally it should be on it's own 15A breaker. In reality, the 1800 W is a peak rating with all channels driven to full output. Since this does not happen in the real world, most can run their entire system from this same 15A circuit. I can report that we once ran a 7000 watt system at CES from only two 15A circuits with no issue.


Jeff
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post #67 of 187 Old 05-05-2019, 02:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Glad to see this thread still alive after a year, seems like a lot of people have taken the plunge and snatched up some killer deals (one was FREE!). I'm sad to report, however, that today I fried one of the boards in one of my amps. I was watching a movie, paused it for a while to take the kids somewhere, and when I came back my center channel was just making a constant loud popping sound (while the movie was still paused). I disconnected the center speaker and connected it to another channel and it worked fine, so it wasn't the speaker. Then I tried another speaker on the center channel - same loud popping again. So it was definitely that one channel/board, rather than a speaker issue. I removed the XLR/RCA cable and inspected it, and it looks like one of the wires on the XLR end had come unsoldered and was touching another pin. I tried another XLR/RCA cable in its place but still get the same popping, so I'm afraid the board is fried. Luckily I have 5 extra channels because I'm running 2 of the 16x60 amps bridged to 8 channels each and I only need 11 channels. Guess that's what I get for using cheap Chinese cables! Looks like I'll be redoing them all with some high-end homemade cables using some RCA cables and XLR connectors from Monoprice.
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post #68 of 187 Old 05-07-2019, 04:41 AM
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Bummer. When I saw how cheap those Chinese cables were, I made my own.

Since you are going to make cables, do yourself a favor and get Neutrik XLR connectors. For RCA, I used the Neutrik Rean model from Parts Express, and they were OK.

https://www.parts-express.com/neutri...cator--092-113


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post #69 of 187 Old 05-08-2019, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard71 View Post
Glad to see this thread still alive after a year, seems like a lot of people have taken the plunge and snatched up some killer deals (one was FREE!). I'm sad to report, however, that today I fried one of the boards in one of my amps. I was watching a movie, paused it for a while to take the kids somewhere, and when I came back my center channel was just making a constant loud popping sound (while the movie was still paused). I disconnected the center speaker and connected it to another channel and it worked fine, so it wasn't the speaker. Then I tried another speaker on the center channel - same loud popping again. So it was definitely that one channel/board, rather than a speaker issue. I removed the XLR/RCA cable and inspected it, and it looks like one of the wires on the XLR end had come unsoldered and was touching another pin. I tried another XLR/RCA cable in its place but still get the same popping, so I'm afraid the board is fried. Luckily I have 5 extra channels because I'm running 2 of the 16x60 amps bridged to 8 channels each and I only need 11 channels. Guess that's what I get for using cheap Chinese cables! Looks like I'll be redoing them all with some high-end homemade cables using some RCA cables and XLR connectors from Monoprice.
Would like to see what you end up getting. I have the cheap cables too and was thinking about upgrading.
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post #70 of 187 Old 05-24-2019, 04:23 PM
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Just wondering, technically those connectors have 4 poles. The 4th is the pole that connects to the piece that you press on to release the connector. Sometimes that is unused. Sometimes it goes to the same ground as pin 1. How is everyone making that connection?
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post #71 of 187 Old 06-08-2019, 08:58 AM
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hi is it possible to do a bridge RCA connection to speaker without a box etc
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post #72 of 187 Old 06-18-2019, 06:44 AM
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hi what are the screw size for the rubber feet on this amp i know there a m5 but not sure of thread size
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post #73 of 187 Old 06-25-2019, 02:17 PM
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Thank you Jleonard71 for all the great info, I am new to the forum snd I have two Crestron 12x60 amps without the crestnet modules and so I found your 24 volt bypass useful. Although, I followed your instructions I can not get either amp to produce sound through the speakers. One odd thing is that the green led light on main toggle switch on both amplifiers is constantly flickering on and off. Before I take the cases off am I missing something elementary? Thanks for any assistance

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post #74 of 187 Old 06-27-2019, 01:47 PM
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Hi guys. So for the 24 v power, is it simply a wire from the power unit to the little plug we saw referenced earlier in the thread? Anyone have pics of what the final product looks like? I don’t mind a little wiring but most of the time my wiring doesn’t look all that tidy.

edit... saw the photo of the green plug upon reading the full thread again.

Does having the crestron board change anything? We'd still have to handle the bridging even if it did allow us to bypass though, I'd guess.

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post #75 of 187 Old 06-27-2019, 03:50 PM
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hi is it possible to use a
ART T8 8-Channel Transformer/Isolator instead of a matchbox hd
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post #76 of 187 Old 08-02-2019, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dd2424 View Post
So I think I'm doing something wrong and it's probably something simple. I used the same XLR to 2 RCA adapter mentioned in the OP. Everyone says they are using both RCA's. I only get sound when I use one. I attached a diagram of the setup. Sorry it's low res. Can those of you that have done this take a look at see if it's correct?

can someone put a diagram up on How to bridge with a matchbox to get 220w on the from amp to matchbox then to 16x60
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post #77 of 187 Old 08-15-2019, 03:26 PM
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Picked up two these for $175 each delivered...all working good
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REW...most expensive freeware ever...

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post #78 of 187 Old 09-03-2019, 08:13 AM
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I'm based in the Uk and we don't see a lot of Crestron stuff, luckily I was able to pickup 2 from ebay. Looking forward to having 2 lots of 8 X 220 watts!!

I'm planning on getting a Yamaha reciever/ amplifier but only to use the pre-outs. Ive been looking at rca to xlr converters and the matchbox isnt available in the UK.

Alternatives Ive looked at are:
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Full.../dp/B01MXC9HHW

And a very cheap dongle:
https://cpc.farnell.com/xcaliber/xga...skt/dp/AV16495

When I buy the XLR cable - do they come out of phase by default or do I need to request an out of phase cable ?

Many thanks, P.
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post #79 of 187 Old 09-03-2019, 11:23 AM
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Is there a good guide for adding a 12v trigger to this amplifier while leaving the Crestnet board in? Looking through the threads about it, it appears that the board is required for protection, and many of the quick guides for doing it seem to remove the board entirely.

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post #80 of 187 Old 09-18-2019, 01:45 PM
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Big ol turd

Wow. I underestimated the weight of this baby.

Got one on eBay for $300 delivered to my door, but they left it in front of the garage.

I figured out why when I tried to pick it up. BEWARE: Can cause back issues. LOL.

DIY HTR: One 800 lb. VBSS credenza, 3 horizontal Elusive 1099s, 2 HT-8 height duty wedges, & 2 DIY Volt 6 Tabletop Surrounds.
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post #81 of 187 Old 09-20-2019, 02:08 AM
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Is this thing supposed to be pulling 123 Watts in idle with nothing connected but power? It seems to get pretty warm, I guess that is by design so it is ready for action?

They shipped it with a 18 gauge power wire, I used a 14 gauge I had on hand to be safe.




--Other info--
I ran 4 speakers almost at Max 60 watts per speaker and the main power went up to 400 watts.

I am using a laptop power supply rated @ 19V 4.7A and it works great like you said.
The laptop supply wastes 6.3 watts when main switch is off and 7.6 when it is on.

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post #82 of 187 Old 09-25-2019, 01:59 PM
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Updated @dd2424 's diagram to show proper XLR to RCA connections.

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post #83 of 187 Old 09-25-2019, 02:27 PM
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I haven't checked this thread in a while. I still wish there was a solid way to eliminate the matchbox device and make an internal modification.
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post #84 of 187 Old 10-01-2019, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dd2424 View Post
I haven't checked this thread in a while. I still wish there was a solid way to eliminate the matchbox device and make an internal modification.
@JLeonard , I am a personal fan of this thread just based on how you say things like "I figured out a way to make it work without any internal modifications needed" and in the VERY NEXT post you say "Here are some pics of the internals".

It is almost impossible to get this amp and not be curious about what makes up all that weight and more importantly that crystal clear amplified sound! I can literally have them wide open to my sensitive 1099s without a signal and not hear the faintest hint of ANYTHING! Strong, clear, concise. I cannot believe how much better my speakers sound!!! I am only using one amp currently, flipping your use-case scenario and bridging the 4 height channels @220 watts that are 14 feet away from MLP to get them closer to the 1099s level @ 60 watts 6 feet from my MLP with the table-top Volt 6s even closer @ 60 watts 4 feet away from my noggin. They are obnoxiously loud at 60 watts, but super clear now. Thanks, AVS Forum! I love you!

I just cannot believe you guys discovered this little gem! I picked up a couple more locally @ $400 for both! (a huge line of PA310-8s on the front wall for midbass maybe!?!?

BUT BE WARNED, You never know what you are going get on the inside.

The yellow PCB version looks like their original prototype.
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DIY HTR: One 800 lb. VBSS credenza, 3 horizontal Elusive 1099s, 2 HT-8 height duty wedges, & 2 DIY Volt 6 Tabletop Surrounds.
Bedroom:5 MLT-2 LCR & Surrounds, 2 hidden DIY shallow 12's, & 2 BST Bass Shakers on 2 PB875 Ensos.

Last edited by kagtha; 10-01-2019 at 06:56 PM.
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post #85 of 187 Old 10-07-2019, 08:36 AM
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Easy(ish) bypass button bypass

If you can solder then you will be able to use your 24V power supply (19-30V also seems to work fine) to activate your Crestron Amplifier without any popping issues or requirements like pressing the "little red bypass" button in the back. You will not be required to keep power going to the Amp @ all times any longer, you will still need to figure out your own way to use a 12V trigger. I personally use a Solid State Relay to power the 24V transformer, but others have used a power conditioner or UPS to power the 24V "Wall Wart".

The "quick fix" still requires disassembly, but you only need to solder a single wire onto the Crestron control board. (It is super easy to take apart, the hardest part is soldering.)

The card does get mostly bypassed so you will need to be super careful not to cross any speaker wire connections in the future. This 24V card now only requires energy when you want to use the amp, so this "quick fix" works out great for anyone who can figure out a way to turn the 24V Power Supply on/off with their AVR.

Credits:
@jleonard71 for highlighting this little gem, even more props to @rfb6435 for bringing this amp to our attention and last but not least, @Peterl944 for highlighting the 9 pin connector functionality.

I AM HORRIBLE @ soldering so please do not judge my solder joints.

Bypass button...Bypass Instructions
  1. Remove Cover. (Remove all tiny exterior Allen screws from the top and left/right side)
  2. Remove Crestron Card. (I used a paint scraper to loosen the connectors)
  3. Solder a single wire to 10 total contacts as seen in the attached photos.
  4. Install Crestron Card and connect the original wire connectors.
  5. Install Cover.
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DIY HTR: One 800 lb. VBSS credenza, 3 horizontal Elusive 1099s, 2 HT-8 height duty wedges, & 2 DIY Volt 6 Tabletop Surrounds.
Bedroom:5 MLT-2 LCR & Surrounds, 2 hidden DIY shallow 12's, & 2 BST Bass Shakers on 2 PB875 Ensos.

Last edited by kagtha; 10-07-2019 at 08:43 AM.
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post #86 of 187 Old 10-11-2019, 02:12 PM
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I've picked up a couple of these in the uk. Thx to all the info on this post !!!

The 24v bypass was no problem.

I made up the xlr to rca xables myself using screw in rca jacks and screw in neutrik jacks.

I couldnt get hold of a matchbox so after looking at some option i baught a 2 channel sonifex. Im hoping to get an xlr output pre pro for the final solution.

I measured the output using a 1khz test tone at 65db and when bridged it went to 78db. I imagined there would be more output when going to a bridged output.

Do those figured sound about right ?
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post #87 of 187 Old 10-12-2019, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMonkeyPimp View Post
I've picked up a couple of these in the uk. Thx to all the info on this post !!!

The 24v bypass was no problem.

I made up the xlr to rca xables myself using screw in rca jacks and screw in neutrik jacks.

I couldnt get hold of a matchbox so after looking at some option i baught a 2 channel sonifex. Im hoping to get an xlr output pre pro for the final solution.

I measured the output using a 1khz test tone at 65db and when bridged it went to 78db. I imagined there would be more output when going to a bridged output.

Do those figured sound about right ?
Did you use the RB-UL2?

With what speakers?

Where did you measure from? The MLP?

I am using the amp with a pre pro (AV7703) going to some Elusive 1099s and they sound phenomenal, not a drip of noise and get louder than my ears can handle.

140 more watts sounds like a lot but in actuality 4 times more watts is no where close to four times louder, your gain sounds normal.

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post #88 of 187 Old 10-12-2019, 04:42 PM
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Ive been using a sonifex rb bl2. I sent a signal direct from my yamaha wxc50 to get a baseline reading at a fairly low volume (65db). I used a db meter installed on my phone, placed about 2 foot from the speaker. I then connected the sonifex, but didnt bridge the speaker, i set the gain on the sonifex to get the same 65db reading. I did this to make sure i'm not getting any gain from the sonifex. I then bridged the speaker and took the 2nd reading (75db).

My speakers are Missions. 705 for fronts, 704s for rears pair of 70c2's for centres. 2 pairs of 70ds for sides and also 2 dayton 18's which i'll probably rebuild as full martys. Readings were taken with the 705's

Thx for the response bud.
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post #89 of 187 Old 10-15-2019, 01:01 AM
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A 10dB gain is respectable and about right. What did your ears tell you?

89db sensitivity will not sound as loud as 99db sensitivity speakers but those look like nice speakers. I am sure they will be loud enough, especially if you are doubling up.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagtha View Post
A 10dB gain is respectable and about right. What did your ears tell you?

89db sensitivity will not sound as loud as 99db sensitivity speakers but those look like nice speakers. I am sure they will be loud enough, especially if you are doubling up.

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My "room" is still basically a garage, concrete floor brick walls and completely not set up for sound just yet but I'm working on it

I used to play these through Sony DA9000es which is a digital amp and is rated at 200wpc. They sounded good through that but I haven't heard them set up like that for around 10 years.

To be honest at 60 watts (non bridged) they sounded really loud. When bridged they sound louder and thumpier, and the speakers bounce around a lot more - still a nice clean sound. I'm sure when the room has been properly treated they will sound awesome. I've completely over engineered the speaker setup. I'm looking at getting some more speakers as I have 2 16x60's to play with now. If my plan comes together I'll have 2x705's(L) each bridged / 3x70c2(C) each bridged / 2X705's(R) each bridged. 1 each 704 bridged for my RL and RR rears and 4 side height non bridged. then 4 atmos non bridged. My room is around 6.5 metres by 5.5 metres x 2.4 high

All the Missions are 89db sensitivity

So thats
9 bridged connections
8 non bridged which equal 4 channels on the amp

Amp 1 5 bridged connections 2 non bridged
Amp 2 4 bridged connections 2 non bridged

So even with this overkill setup, 2 of these amps will cover everything and have 3 channels left over !!

Best bit was I picked up both for 300UK delivered.
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