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post #1 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
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My new receiver search and related questions...

Hi all, just wondering something. Some AVRs are very expensive but they have the same power or less as another cheaper AVR. what is the more expensive AVR more expensive? Isn't power the same? or is it more expensive because it has more bells and whistles?

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
Www.jvpix.com
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post #2 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 05:44 AM
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I always think to buy the avr with the features you want then look at power. Most of the avrs out there have the power to run the majority of the speakers just fine.

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post #3 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by gingus View Post
I always think to buy the avr with the features you want then look at power. Most of the avrs out there have the power to run the majority of the speakers just fine.

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I always buy the cheapest model in that lineup that has pre outs that way if I want I can add an external amp or 2. Usually that starts at 999.99.

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post #4 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocci View Post
Hi all, just wondering something. Some AVRs are very expensive but they have the same power or less as another cheaper AVR. what is the more expensive AVR more expensive? Isn't power the same? or is it more expensive because it has more bells and whistles?
Depends on the AVR, but generally speaking products are priced where they are because it is where that company feels the balance is between the amount of product they can supply vs the amount of potential consumers willing to pay that much. It is really hard to run a business, and even harder once the business gets large as you need to hire more and more people that you hope will care about your product and your customers as much as you do. But everyone you hire to work for you considers their job "just a job" and nobody is going to care. Some (very) high-end brands keep their pricing just high enough so that they can keep their quantity low enough that they can have a smaller staff and not have to deal with factories in China or Vietnam needed to meet production goals.

Some more-expensive receivers have more power, and the ratings may not look any better, but some higher-end brands are rated at all-channels-driven power whereas brands like Denon and Onkyo and Pioneer etc. are giving ratings with 2 or even 1 channel driven and the power drops with surround sound sorts of situations.

Some more-expensive receivers do have more features like higher-end room equalization (AKA room optimization) like Anthem ARC or Dirac Live (in NAD and Arcam), zones, codec support, but in some cases expensive receivers may lack certain features that sometimes less expensive ones have (usually less important features). It's not always a case of more money being better. Sometimes it's a tradeoff.

Some of them are expensive because they aren't built in China or Vietnam or other cheap-labor countries. Though watch out because you absolutely can spend $1500 on an Anthem MRX-520 and find out it's also made in Vietnam like most Denon/Marantz models (and most other brands use similar places to manufacture).

I mean think about cars. This question you're asking is sort of asking us why BMW or Audi or Lexus or Cadillac is more expensive than a Toyota or a Ford or a Chevy or whatever.

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post #5 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the detailed answer. which would you choose: Onkyo TX-NR676 at 100 watts (20-20k, 2ch) or Yamaha RX-V585 at 80 watts (20-20k, 2ch)?

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
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post #6 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 07:16 AM
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Don't worry about the power ratings, look at the features instead.

Make sure whatever receiver you get has the feature set you want such as number of HDMI inputs, dual HDMI outputs, Zone 2 capability, etc. If you don't know or care what any of that stuff is then go for the less expensive model.
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post #7 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 07:33 AM
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The advertised power rating per/2 channels is a very small factor in choosing a new AVR.

Number of channels it can process, active room correction type, upscaling capability, DACs, amount of hdmi ports, pre-outs, bluetooth, atmos, airplay, netradio, zones....etc, etc...

are what determines the prices more than anything else.
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post #8 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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so I wouldn't hear the difference between 80watts and 100 watts? which would you choose?

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
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post #9 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocci View Post
thanks for the detailed answer. which would you choose: Onkyo TX-NR676 at 100 watts (20-20k, 2ch) or Yamaha RX-V585 at 80 watts (20-20k, 2ch)?
On a power basis, can't tell. Neither has strong specs, and neither is rated at 4 ohms continuous (well, the Onkyo says "certified" but not specs, so pffft). Hearing is logarithmic, and from 80 to 100 watts is 1 decibel, which is like one tiny twitch of the volume control. Their features are pretty similar really. Personally I'd get this
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX...N-Command.html
instead as I feel the time-based Audyssey correction is a superior way to try and solve room acoustic problems than what Onkyo and Yamaha do. The power is again basically the same. And ALL receivers that I've ever seen tested "droop" their power output when you load down the amplifiers. None of these have preamp outputs to add additional amps. However, unless you are really cranking up your sound levels, you will likely be fine.

If not, you'll need to step up to outboard amps, meaning you would need "Multi-channel Preamp Output" to have that option in the future https://www.crutchfield.com/g_10420/..._Preamp_Output
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post #10 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 08:01 AM
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I always look to the used market in my home town before buying a new unit. Quality units from Marantz and Denon, although older and high-quality, can cost the same as new unit of lower quality.
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post #11 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocci View Post
so I wouldn't hear the difference between 80watts and 100 watts?
Based just on that spec, no. To add 3 dB of headroom to 80 watts you need 160 watts (assuming sufficient and stable current supply).
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post #12 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by velocci View Post
thanks for the detailed answer. which would you choose: Onkyo TX-NR676 at 100 watts (20-20k, 2ch) or Yamaha RX-V585 at 80 watts (20-20k, 2ch)?
Just like with any product, it would help to know more about your needs and wants. How are you planning to use it? Music/Movies? Size/type of room? Which speaker model? Surrounds/Height/Zones/Subwoofer(s)? What devices are you planning to connect? Are you planning to use the AVR to pass through HDR to a TV?
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post #13 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks guys, i'm going to stick with one that I can afford and on sale which is the Onkyo 676. I have the 646 right now in my family room. but i'm buying another AVR for my basement now.

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
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post #14 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
Just like with any product, it would help to know more about your needs and wants. How are you planning to use it? Music/Movies? Size/type of room? Which speaker model? Surrounds/Height/Zones/Subwoofer(s)? What devices are you planning to connect? Are you planning to use the AVR to pass through HDR to a TV?
mainly for movies and TV and I may buy the Klipsch RP280F speakers. The room is about 15x15 feet, that's just a guess. I"m having my basement finished and I'm not 100 sure. I will be eventually putting a 65" TV with 7.1 audio. I will start right now with just 2.0 and buy more speakers later on.

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
Www.jvpix.com
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post #15 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by velocci View Post
mainly for movies and TV and I may buy the Klipsch RP280F speakers. The room is about 15x15 feet, that's just a guess. I"m having my basement finished and I'm not 100 sure. I will be eventually putting a 65" TV with 7.1 audio. I will start right now with just 2.0 and buy more speakers later on.
Either of the two AVRs you mentioned should be fine and will give you some future proofing as well. The Onkyos have had some reliability issues in the past but offer great bang for your buck, and you already have some comfort with Onkyo from what it sounds. Some people are loyal to Yamaha, I would be concerned with only 4 HDMI inputs on this particular model though. Both support ATMOS/DTS:X and Dolby Vision pass through for your future 65" TV
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post #16 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
I always buy the cheapest model in that lineup that has pre outs that way if I want I can add an external amp or 2. Usually that starts at 999.99.

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Exactly what I do (because, let's face it, AVRs are the most affordable pre/pros these days). This probably doesn't help the OP but if he ever wants to consider adding an external amp, preamp outputs are necessary.
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post #17 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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It seems the Onkyo 676 is sold out. They offered the Denon AVR-X2400H for $600 or the Yamaha rxa770 for $650. I took a look at the denon and their site says it supports HDR, then further down in the specs list, it says it doesn't. so i'm confused. which is it? and which would you pick?

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
Www.jvpix.com
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post #18 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Exactly what I do (because, let's face it, AVRs are the most affordable pre/pros these days). This probably doesn't help the OP but if he ever wants to consider adding an external amp, preamp outputs are necessary.
Yup, best of both worlds. I just bought the X3400H, love it but it's hooked up to a 5 channel Parasound amp.

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post #19 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 12:27 PM
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If you know where to find some Slick Deals you can likely find clearance X3400s for less than the MSRP of a NR676, though I don't know how good the deal for the NR676 you found was. 2017 receivers have been getting clearance deals. Some of the Yamaha models too.
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post #20 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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If you know where to find some Slick Deals you can likely find clearance X3400s for less than the MSRP of a NR676, though I don't know how good the deal for the NR676 you found was. 2017 receivers have been getting clearance deals. Some of the Yamaha models too.
I may end up buying the speakers alone for now for $1000 canadian for the pair. where is this place you are talking about?

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
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post #21 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by velocci View Post
It seems the Onkyo 676 is sold out. They offered the Denon AVR-X2400H for $600 or the Yamaha rxa770 for $650. I took a look at the denon and their site says it supports HDR, then further down in the specs list, it says it doesn't. so i'm confused. which is it? and which would you pick?
The Denon X2400H supports HDR, it works great. I have one.
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post #22 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 03:25 PM
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I may end up buying the speakers alone for now for $1000 canadian for the pair. where is this place you are talking about?
It's a site, Google it. Not sure about Canadian sales though.
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post #23 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 03:35 PM
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I own cheap avr's in $300 range and expensive ones that were around 2 grand. the cheaper avr's shut down in protection mode faster is about the only thing I noticed (couldnt play as loud for as long)

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #24 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocci View Post
It seems the Onkyo 676 is sold out. They offered the Denon AVR-X2400H for $600 or the Yamaha rxa770 for $650. I took a look at the denon and their site says it supports HDR, then further down in the specs list, it says it doesn't. so i'm confused. which is it? and which would you pick?
They both support HDR, Dolby Vision and HLG. I would pick the Denon x2400 since it has 8 HDMI inputs and I like Audyssey better than the Yamaha YPAO room calibration. I own the x2400.

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post #25 of 67 Old 07-16-2018, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocci View Post
It seems the Onkyo 676 is sold out. They offered the Denon AVR-X2400H for $600 or the Yamaha rxa770 for $650. I took a look at the denon and their site says it supports HDR, then further down in the specs list, it says it doesn't. so i'm confused. which is it? and which would you pick?
Check out amazon. They have a great deal on the Onkyo 820 right now. You won’t be sorry.
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post #26 of 67 Old 07-17-2018, 04:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Check out amazon. They have a great deal on the Onkyo 820 right now. You won’t be sorry.
are you talking about this one? that's too expensive for me. but I will take a look on amazon for some other ones. for me though, I won't be using a cable box, I will be using sources like laptop, PC, chromecast (from a tablet, phone), etc. so I think I would benefit more from a new AVR rather than an older one. what do you think? I definitely need an AVR that will do 4k from a computer. is that possible?

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
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Originally Posted by velocci View Post
are you talking about this one? that's too expensive for me. but I will take a look on amazon for some other ones. for me though, I won't be using a cable box, I will be using sources like laptop, PC, chromecast (from a tablet, phone), etc. so I think I would benefit more from a new AVR rather than an older one. what do you think? I definitely need an AVR that will do 4k from a computer. is that possible?
Ouch. Yes that’s the one. It’s considerably cheaper in the US.
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post #28 of 67 Old 07-17-2018, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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can all receivers do 4k video using any of its HDMI ports when you plug a PC into it? assuming the PC can do 4k of course.

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
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post #29 of 67 Old 07-23-2018, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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A 9.2 AVR in 7.2 mode

Hi all, i have a dumb question. If you get a 9.2 avr and put it in 7.2 mode, does the unused power from the 2 channels not being used go towards the channels being used?

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
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post #30 of 67 Old 07-23-2018, 04:36 PM
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Not a dumb question at all.

Which AVR? I think it really depends on the amplifier design.
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