Announcing ratbuddyssey - a tool for tweaking Audyssey MultEQ app files - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 192 Old 10-07-2018, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
You may very well be right though I don’t see the point of adding the setting to the app if that is the case. Either way, a measurement will tell us for sure.
I can tell you for sure without a measurement. It doesn't.
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post #32 of 192 Old 10-07-2018, 09:14 AM
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I can tell you for sure without a measurement. It doesn't.

I’d still like to see a measurement. My philosophy is trust but verify.


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post #33 of 192 Old 10-12-2018, 01:31 AM
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Hi Im new at the forum but Im really waiting ratbuddy your program. Hopefully we can soon start using it and get our sound system eveng better!
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post #34 of 192 Old 10-15-2018, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I apologize, I put this program to the side when I got a third sub. In the course of adding a MiniDSP 2x4 HD and running a bunch of tests, I found that I greatly preferred the sound of my system with no Audyssey at all. To confirm I wasn't just imagining things, I turned Audyssey back on (with the app-run calibration, not the on-receiver version), and again it sucked the life from the sound, especially in the bass region. I'm currently experimenting with the why and how this happens. It really is an incredible difference, like, there's no way it's intentional, and if it is, I won't use Audyssey any more.

I do need to fix one small thing (save as) before I release the program for brave early testers, I'll do that tonight when I get home.

Again, sorry about the delay!
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post #35 of 192 Old 10-15-2018, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I apologize, I put this program to the side when I got a third sub. In the course of adding a MiniDSP 2x4 HD and running a bunch of tests, I found that I greatly preferred the sound of my system with no Audyssey at all. To confirm I wasn't just imagining things, I turned Audyssey back on (with the app-run calibration, not the on-receiver version), and again it sucked the life from the sound, especially in the bass region. I'm currently experimenting with the why and how this happens. It really is an incredible difference, like, there's no way it's intentional, and if it is, I won't use Audyssey any more.

I do need to fix one small thing (save as) before I release the program for brave early testers, I'll do that tonight when I get home.

Again, sorry about the delay!
Have you played with the target curve? The standard Audyssey in-room curve is relatively flat, which is going to sound very weak in the bass region. A speaker's natural sound in room is going to give a downward tilting response at the listening position. This is what you actually want.

I only let Audyssey EQ my subs to deal with the peaks and dips, then I adjust the sub volume to get the desired level. The result is great. I get the EQed bass from the subs, and the correct on-axis sound from the speaker (seriously you shouldn't EQ above the transition frequency of the room).
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post #36 of 192 Old 10-15-2018, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I apologize, I put this program to the side when I got a third sub. In the course of adding a MiniDSP 2x4 HD and running a bunch of tests, I found that I greatly preferred the sound of my system with no Audyssey at all. To confirm I wasn't just imagining things, I turned Audyssey back on (with the app-run calibration, not the on-receiver version), and again it sucked the life from the sound, especially in the bass region. I'm currently experimenting with the why and how this happens. It really is an incredible difference, like, there's no way it's intentional, and if it is, I won't use Audyssey any more.

I do need to fix one small thing (save as) before I release the program for brave early testers, I'll do that tonight when I get home.

Again, sorry about the delay!

Thank you for all your work on this program.
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post #37 of 192 Old 10-16-2018, 04:04 AM
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Cornball name, I know, but it was that, or fraudyssey, and being a bit vain, I went with my name :P
Or Modyssey
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post #38 of 192 Old 10-16-2018, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, did what I could to clean it up for testing, and the second post has been updated with release info. If someone looks at the code and thinks 'holy crap, this is bad!' then you sound like a great candidate to contribute improvements. Everyone else, please do post feedback here. I know there's a lot of broken stuff, but I don't have a list going yet, so even if it's something you think I already know, unless you see it posted here already, please do post it.

Thanks, and good luck!
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post #39 of 192 Old 10-17-2018, 12:08 AM
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Ratbuddy, I downloaded your software and was able to open it but when I open aud file it shuts down the program. Is there something I could do to get Aud file to work?
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post #40 of 192 Old 10-17-2018, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Opasa34 View Post
Ratbuddy, I downloaded your software and was able to open it but when I open aud file it shuts down the program. Is there something I could do to get Aud file to work?
I meant Ady not Aud
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post #41 of 192 Old 10-17-2018, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Opasa34 View Post
I meant Ady not Aud
Forget earlier posts. I got it to work, there was something wrong with my Ady file. Dowloaded a new one and now it works well! Thank you Ratbuddy it looks like it works like it should. Can't yet verify it with rew but will do that tomorrow when I have time. At least when I send it back to Audyssey app everything looks like it should and we are able to add as many corrections there as we want. Great job
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post #42 of 192 Old 10-17-2018, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool, glad it's at least partially working.

One thing I forgot to mention, the mobile app only lets you change certain parameters in pairs, like the cutoff frequency and curve editor stuff. In the file, they are stored individually per channel. I let you edit it per channel, but in the app, they only display for the first channel in the pair. Example, if you add a custom curve to the front right speaker in my program, it *should* work fine in the receiver (test this, please!). If you view that .ady in the app though, you'll just see whatever curve you have configured for the front left channel. It's just how the app works, but my program should let you individually configure each speaker, even if the app doesn't show that you did
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post #43 of 192 Old 10-17-2018, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Cool, glad it's at least partially working.

One thing I forgot to mention, the mobile app only lets you change certain parameters in pairs, like the cutoff frequency and curve editor stuff. In the file, they are stored individually per channel. I let you edit it per channel, but in the app, they only display for the first channel in the pair. Example, if you add a custom curve to the front right speaker in my program, it *should* work fine in the receiver (test this, please!). If you view that .ady in the app though, you'll just see whatever curve you have configured for the front left channel. It's just how the app works, but my program should let you individually configure each speaker, even if the app doesn't show that you did
Rattbuddy: that's is, so far, the most interesting thing that you bring to us. Shame to Audyssey cause they never though on this main point.
First: what about assimetric room?
Second (this is my case): what about people with partial deaf on one ear?

Now, i can try and experiment to extract all the juice without deal with pair of speakers.
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post #44 of 192 Old 10-17-2018, 07:32 PM
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Can someone post a file so I can play with the program while waiting for my 7012?

thx

bob
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post #45 of 192 Old 10-18-2018, 02:15 PM
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Just been doing some testing with the program and thought I would like to share my finding.
The program worked/saved/uploaded very smoothly between my windows 10 and Marantz AVR-7011, I was positively surprised at how smooth the program runned considering it still in it's first beta stage
(Thanks ratbuddy for the hard work)
so far been testing a few function in the program and they worked accordingly -and YES u can now edit each channel/speaker individually I have confirmed that with actual measurement using REW.
back to the most the important function of this program which is the (Frequency Boost/Cut) unfortunately this function still need some work to be done, it's messy inacurrate and at some points not responsive at all, iam posting some graph below to illustrate the results I had from my own test. in my own room and on my own system.

First photo is the ADY. file -Unedited
Second photo ADY. file -Edtited (just randomly applied some Boost/Cut to the Freq. curve to see how effective they are)
Third photo is the graph results from both Before/After)
Blue =Ady. file -Unedited
Red =ADY. file -Edited

again thanks ratbuddy for the hard work. keep up the good work
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post #46 of 192 Old 10-18-2018, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
Just been doing some testing with the program and thought I would like to share my finding.
The program worked/saved/uploaded very smoothly between my windows 10 and Marantz AVR-7011, I was positively surprised at how smooth the program runned considering it still in it's first beta stage
(Thanks ratbuddy for the hard work)
so far been testing a few function in the program and they worked accordingly -and YES u can now edit each channel/speaker individually I have confirmed that with actual measurement using REW.
back to the most the important function of this program which is the (Frequency Boost/Cut) unfortunately this function still need some work to be done, it's messy inacurrate and at some points not responsive at all, iam posting some graph below to illustrate the results I had from my own test. in my own room and on my own system.

First photo is the ADY. file -Unedited
Second photo ADY. file -Edtited (just randomly applied some Boost/Cut to the Freq. curve to see how effective they are)
Third photo is the graph results from both Before/After)
Blue =Ady. file -Unedited
Red =ADY. file -Edited

again thanks ratbuddy for the hard work. keep up the good work
Could you upload an ady file so i can play around?
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post #47 of 192 Old 10-18-2018, 11:04 PM
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Could you upload an ady file so i can play around?
Sure no problem, I will pm. u my ady. file
Edited: sorry couldn't do that via pm. no options to upload files.

Last edited by marco1975; 10-18-2018 at 11:09 PM.
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post #48 of 192 Old 10-19-2018, 05:41 AM
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After some test, i got an amazing improvement changing only FR speaker curve to achieve maximum joy for my partial deaf right ear....

To me is an absolutely new sound world.....

By the way, no problem at all saving and loadind ady files on both, official app and 'little miraculouse' ratbuddy machine.
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post #49 of 192 Old 10-19-2018, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Could you upload an ady file so i can play around?
If noone else does, I will send you one tonight. PM me your email
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post #50 of 192 Old 10-19-2018, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Do keep in mind that we can only edit the 'target curve' and don't have direct control over the EQ points. Sadly, I don't think I'll be able to give full PEQ functionality, just a little better control over that target curve than the app gives. The actual applied EQ curves are completely decided by the app and Audyssey algorithms.

That said, I'd love to see some testing which determines how narrow and tall we can get it to filter. If we do 990hz 0dB, 1000hz +12dB, 1010hz 0dB, what will REW show? Probably best to do no smoothing or 1/24 at most for that kind of test, or the results could be smoothed right out

edit: Hmm, I'd like to test shelf filters too.. Put +9dB at 0hz (or 20, or whatever minimum - need to test how low this goes too) and another +9dB around 80hz, then 0dB at 81hz, what will happen? No idea! Will it only boost in a range around the end frequencies, or will it make a shelf between them?
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post #51 of 192 Old 10-19-2018, 06:02 AM
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Hi, I did rew measurement after using the ratbuddy app and it is working really well. It do own adjustment for example for the right and left front channels and you can put as many Frequency Boost/Cut you want. Only thing I noticed that didn't work was that if you change for example speaker distance at the programme the MultEQ mobile app is not able to handle it and shuts down when I try to go Speaker detection results.

I have also question when I looked Marco1975 post he has mark on the lfcSupport and his SystemDelay is 124, what those means? I have no mark on lfcSupport and my delay is 280!!

I have Denon AVR-X3300W
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post #52 of 192 Old 10-19-2018, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Do keep in mind that we can only edit the 'target curve' and don't have direct control over the EQ points. Sadly, I don't think I'll be able to give full PEQ functionality, just a little better control over that target curve than the app gives. The actual applied EQ curves are completely decided by the app and Audyssey algorithms.

That said, I'd love to see some testing which determines how narrow and tall we can get it to filter. If we do 990hz 0dB, 1000hz +12dB, 1010hz 0dB, what will REW show? Probably best to do no smoothing or 1/24 at most for that kind of test, or the results could be smoothed right out

edit: Hmm, I'd like to test shelf filters too.. Put +9dB at 0hz (or 20, or whatever minimum - need to test how low this goes too) and another +9dB around 80hz, then 0dB at 81hz, what will happen? No idea! Will it only boost in a range around the end frequencies, or will it make a shelf between them?
I can run this test , just post the exact Boost/cuts/shelfing db. and hz nr. and in which order u want them to be added, I will then add them to my ady.file and run some measurments with Rew.
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post #53 of 192 Old 10-19-2018, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opasa34 View Post
I have also question when I looked Marco1975 post he has mark on the lfcSupport and his SystemDelay is 124, what those means? I have no mark on lfcSupport and my delay is 280!!
I have Denon AVR-X3300W
That simply depend on which feature of Audyssey your AVR. has on board.
LFC. means =Low Frequency containment, it dynamically targets and lowers the particular frequency range that can pass through walls so that u don't disturb your neighbour as much (think of late night mode on AVR.)
The Denon AVR-X3300W dosn't have that feature of Audyssey.
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post #54 of 192 Old 10-19-2018, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
I can run this test , just post the exact Boost/cuts/shelfing db. and hz nr. and in which order u want them to be added, I will then add them to my ady.file and run some measurments with Rew.
Cool, try it at the frequencies I said, 990/1000/1010 with 0dB/12dB/0dB, if 1000hz only peaks at like +6dB, maybe try changing the targets to 0/+20/0dB to see if it stays at only 6dB, try changing the frequencies to maybe 900/1000/1100 to see if it can go higher from a less steep slope, just experiments like that
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post #55 of 192 Old 10-20-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Cool, try it at the frequencies I said, 990/1000/1010 with 0dB/12dB/0dB, if 1000hz only peaks at like +6dB, maybe try changing the targets to 0/+20/0dB to see if it stays at only 6dB, try changing the frequencies to maybe 900/1000/1100 to see if it can go higher from a less steep slope, just experiments like that

Here are the measurments, and they are without any smoothing, as u can see below in the graphs a boost of 15.db at 1000HZ, gives nearly about 5.db boost in that range, so iam assuming u would need to triple your nr. to get the desired boost level? I will be confirming that with upcoming measurments.

while i was at it also tried to put a boost/shelfing below 20HZ, thinking that it would be a great fix for the hated roll-off below 20HZ, issue with the App., unfortunately that doesn't work i put a +20db. at 10/20HZ. but nothing happen at all (see it the graph below) iam not sure but i think the boost/cut function it doesn't work on the subwoofer at all, again iam gonna be confirming that in an upcoming new measurments, one thing i noticed about the subwoofer channel in the program, is that u can only alter one subwoofer, i have 2 subwoofer but i was able to apply the boost only to one.
Another note, by default the program load the ADY. file with the pointer in FLAT, in actuality u are altering the REFERENCE, just like in the App. the FLAT is unaltered by any change that u made, now and i was only doing this out of curiosity, if u move that pointer to REFERENCE when editing the file, your system will not out put a sound at all when u choose FLAT on the AVR. in other word the FLAT is muted

Blue curve=Unedited ADY. file
Red curve=Edited DY. file
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post #56 of 192 Old 10-21-2018, 07:28 AM
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New measurments and testing, as I have mentioned in my previous post above, about the boosting for the subwoofer channel, I did confirm that with a new measurments today , and yes as I have expected unfortunately boosting doesn't work for the subwoofer, u can lower but u can't boost, I was also observing the Boost/cut function maximum ability, and it maxed out at +20/-20db. a maximum boost of +20db. in actuality will give u only about +5 db. when u send the file to the AVR., and a maximum cut of -20db. will lower it by about -10db.


Blue curve =ADY. file Unedited
Red curve =ADY. file Edited
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post #57 of 192 Old 10-21-2018, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I gave my program arbitrary limits of +/- 20 dB. If you want to try higher or lower, I can remove that limit.
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post #58 of 192 Old 10-21-2018, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I gave my program arbitrary limits of +/- 20 dB. If you want to try higher or lower, I can remove that limit.
sounds like a good idea, because to achieve the desired +/-20 db. in Audyssey u would need to to change the limit to something like +/-60 db.
perhaps u could also look into the subwoofer channel ? as u can see in the graph it doesn't respond to boost only cut , beside that subwoofer nr. 2 doesn't save the changes.
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post #59 of 192 Old 10-21-2018, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated the second post with some known issues. Before I change the limit, let's test if it's really just scaling back the number you put in, or if it just caps out at 5dB or whatever boost?

For the second subwoofer, the reason you can't adjust it is Audyssey only level matches and sets distances and delays for the subs individually, but it EQs them as a set. Channel 54 has the response data, channel 55 is just the distance and level info for the second sub. Nothing I can do about that
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post #60 of 192 Old 10-22-2018, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I updated the second post with some known issues. Before I change the limit, let's test if it's really just scaling back the number you put in, or if it just caps out at 5dB or whatever boost?
have runned this test multiple times, and got the same result it caps out at +5/-10 db.
as for the subwoofer channel also the same issue , boost doesn't work, only cuts, when the file sent to the AVR. perhaps u can add that also the issues list.
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