Announcing ratbuddyssey - a tool for tweaking Audyssey MultEQ app files - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 186 Old 10-22-2018, 06:46 AM
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I wonder if the limits marco1975 is seeing are showing us how Audyssey works. Maybe it knows that if it tries to do a 20db boost at a very narrow frequency then there is a problem that Audyssey can't actually fix.
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post #62 of 186 Old 10-22-2018, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post
I wonder if the limits marco1975 is seeing are showing us how Audyssey works. Maybe it knows that if it tries to do a 20db boost at a very narrow frequency then there is a problem that Audyssey can't actually fix.
Actaully i was just thinking the same when I saw these limitation in my testing, because as I recall that Audyssey allow only a max boost of +6db. and a cut of -12db. over the Frequency range.
also when u think that u can't do a boost on the subwoofer channel.

Last edited by marco1975; 10-22-2018 at 07:44 AM.
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post #63 of 186 Old 10-22-2018, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1975 View Post
have runned this test multiple times, and got the same result it caps out at +5/-10 db.
as for the subwoofer channel also the same issue , boost doesn't work, only cuts, when the file sent to the AVR. perhaps u can add that also the issues list.
Got it, thanks. I think before putting those on my own issues list, we should confirm they aren't just the way Audyssey works - after all, if Audyssey's algorithm allowed too much boost when fixing for room acoustics, amp channels would quickly run out of power. +5/-10 seem like reasonable limits, they might be 'baked in' and not something I can change at all. If that's the case, I'll just put a +5/-10 limit in my program, so people know that's all that works.

For subs, since there is no boost, hmm. Maybe we can do something like raise the gain knob to increase overall level, then cut frequencies where we don't want that increased level? I know it's a workaround, but if Audyssey won't boost the subs, it's the only choice we really have..
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post #64 of 186 Old 10-22-2018, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Got it, thanks. I think before putting those on my own issues list, we should confirm they aren't just the way Audyssey works - after all, if Audyssey's algorithm allowed too much boost when fixing for room acoustics, amp channels would quickly run out of power. +5/-10 seem like reasonable limits, they might be 'baked in' and not something I can change at all. If that's the case, I'll just put a +5/-10 limit in my program, so people know that's all that works.

For subs, since there is no boost, hmm. Maybe we can do something like raise the gain knob to increase overall level, then cut frequencies where we don't want that increased level? I know it's a workaround, but if Audyssey won't boost the subs, it's the only choice we really have..
That could be a workaround for the subwoofer, and or just by raising the trim adjustment in the program and then cut the frequencies that we don't wan't.
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post #65 of 186 Old 10-22-2018, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Shout out to someone much smarter than me, who is using @ToBeFrank 's post from here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56637090 to do this for me:



It will have logarithmic X axis when done. Also, if we can figure out how, I'll add smoothing options and maybe an average function. Currently, you select mic positions from the dropdown and can see the responses from each.

Now you know why I left such a big blank area on the program window :P
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post #66 of 186 Old 10-23-2018, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Getting there, I'll try to get this version pushed tomorrow or so.



If anyone can help with smoothing algorithms, I'd appreciate it.
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post #67 of 186 Old 10-23-2018, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
If anyone can help with smoothing algorithms, I'd appreciate it.
Do a larger FFT by zero padding out the time domain samples to the new FFT size. I'd stick with a power of 2 FFT size. It will spread the energy across more bins which smooths it. Note that it will seem like you're getting better frequency resolution, but you're not.
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post #68 of 186 Old 10-23-2018, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm, was hoping someone knew how to do the same kind of 1/2, 1/3, 1/6, etc octave smoothing like REW

I'll keep that in my pocket though as a possibility if I can't figure out the other way, thanks!

edit: Woo, John of REW fame was nice enough to share his smoothing code! I'll have an update in a day or two.

Last edited by ratbuddy; 10-24-2018 at 04:15 AM.
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post #69 of 186 Old 10-26-2018, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm really excited about the update I'm going to push tonight, it really puts the fun in functionality. Sorry. It does though.
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post #70 of 186 Old 10-26-2018, 04:02 PM
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Looking forward to try it
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post #71 of 186 Old 10-26-2018, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Second post updated with new version link. This is a feature release, I will fix known bugs in the next release. I didn't want to sleep on this too long, it's just way too fun to play with. Please do confirm the graphs are plotted correctly and are lined up on the right frequencies if you can.



You can select which measurement positions you want to see, and it automatically goes to the 5-200hz scale for your subwoofers or the 15-20khz scale for everything else. So far it can detect channel type 42 and 54, which are the only subwoofer measurement channel types I'm aware of. If your sub channel doesn't have 42 or 54 (or 55 for the second sub out), please let me know what it does have for a channel type in the left hand panel.

Below the graph we have smoothing options, big thank you to John from Room EQ Wizard for that. I'm already planning to reverse the order of the smoothing options from least smoothing to greatest, and maybe defaulting to 1/24.

Please do post any questions, comments, concerns, bugs, etc.

Enjoy!
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post #72 of 186 Old 10-26-2018, 05:29 PM
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just did a quick test for the new added function, seems to be working just fine, some pictures below
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post #73 of 186 Old 10-26-2018, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Dang, I better make the graph a little taller, you have a huge peak in your sub response
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post #74 of 186 Old 10-26-2018, 06:19 PM
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yeah that huge peak around 30HZ. good idea making the graph a bit taller
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post #75 of 186 Old 10-26-2018, 07:12 PM
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ratbuddy,
Sorry but I don't have the time to get involved with this right now, I've got so much else going on, but just wanted to thank you for all your doing and how impressed I am with the work you've done here. A awesome bit of engineering!
Sal
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Last edited by Sal1950; 10-27-2018 at 04:19 AM.
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post #76 of 186 Old 10-27-2018, 04:14 AM
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Does this work for older Pro enabled Audyssey devices?
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post #77 of 186 Old 10-27-2018, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post
Does this work for older Pro enabled Audyssey devices?
Sorry, no, unless they happen to use the same .ady file format as the app.
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post #78 of 186 Old 11-02-2018, 02:48 AM
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Version 0.2 doesn't work for me. Freeze before open any channel.

And, even worst, don't let me open v 0.1

Any ideas?
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post #79 of 186 Old 11-02-2018, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finitol View Post
Version 0.2 doesn't work for me. Freeze before open any channel.

And, even worst, don't let me open v 0.1

Any ideas?
Did u try clean install?
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post #80 of 186 Old 11-06-2018, 07:33 AM
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Download the tool a week ago and it work really well . I get a very good result with the tool. Thank ratbuddy .Really appreciate your hardwork.
Below are the comparison avr audyssey vs ratbuddyssey tool .
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post #81 of 186 Old 11-07-2018, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finitol View Post
Version 0.2 doesn't work for me. Freeze before open any channel.

And, even worst, don't let me open v 0.1

Any ideas?
Sorry, you probably have a file with data I hadn't seen before and I don't have good error handling. Any chance you are the one who uploaded the file to github? If not, can you please add your .ady in an issue report there, so I can look into it?

Thanks!
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post #82 of 186 Old 11-21-2018, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't forgotten this, I'll check with my helper tonight to see if he found the cause of the crash yet.
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post #83 of 186 Old 12-02-2018, 11:31 PM
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Hi everyone,

The app crash when I select a channel (Marantz SR6012) : Ratbuddy can't reproduce the bug so no solution for me.
I just need to change frequency of the 2khz dip for my central (3.5khz) and surround (2.7khz) : it is just impossible to do that on my android smartphone, too small screen.
Is there somebody that can do these changes on my file ?
Regards
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post #84 of 186 Old 12-07-2018, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Someone on github pointed out that the crash happens when you have a Windows number display format that uses ',' instead of '.' for the decimal places - can you try changing that setting on your system and see if it still crashes?
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post #85 of 186 Old 12-07-2018, 07:21 AM
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Hello,


crash no more happens when I change the decimal point !
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post #86 of 186 Old 12-10-2018, 04:35 AM
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Hi all!
Recently i get a pair of same subs and place them at exatly the same distance to MPL.... but when audy is passed said diferent distances (2.82m and 3.03m) and, most weird,
first has 0.21 delay adjustment ans second none at all.......
Is this a normal behaviour?

By the way, i was able to fix my issue with 0.2 version. Thanks for yoyr advices.

Last edited by finitol; 12-10-2018 at 08:32 AM.
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post #87 of 186 Old 12-25-2018, 01:22 PM
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When I bought my Denon X4400 I expected the calibration would deliver a similar quality like Sonarworks Reference I am used to.

While the calibrated sound is an improvement - it was a bit disappointing to me that the sound quality is not as good.

So I gave MultEQ app a try and while the result was better - compared to the native result on the receiver - it still was not as spectrally balanced and neutral sounding as I am used to.

What is not working well in conjunction with the Audyssey mic?
For example using the FLAT setting (which should be the standard): WAY!!! to much highs.
Which I don't understand, because Audyssey claims the receivers contain calibration info about the mics. But the highs are so extreme, that this shows, that the mic is way too dull compared to the calibration data and therefore the treble become extremely boosted.
The flat setting is so extreme, that it can't even be explained by differences between mics.
So XT32 trebles are only bearable, if the "Reference" rolloff setting is used.

With that setting it's much better, but it shows underlying problems, which should be solved ASAP.

But Audyssey has not only treble problems. It severely reduces the subbass around 40 Hz and kills it below - on the same system and same speakers Sonarworks delivers wonderful subbass - even with its "neutral" setting and not one of the more aggressive settings that extend the low end.

Because of the unsatifying results I began to experiment with ratbuddyssey and MultEQ. I wondered if it was possible to copy and achieve the sound quality of the Sonarworks calibration.

And it worked! While the subbass problem still persits a bit, I was able to reduce the impact of the too high highpass filtering and get the treble under control - thanks to the ability of additional fine tuning in ratbuddyssey.

Between the bass and treble range XT32 does quite a good job on the mids. It was only necessary to adjust them to fit the spectral balance between bass and treble. After the adjustments it becomes hearable how good the room correction really works.

If you experiment yourself, be cautious: MultEQ seems to have some huge bugs - or maybe the conjunction with ratbuddyssey is the reason? I had noticed several times, that suddenly the MultEQ-adjusted bass response, although displayed in the MultEQ curve, was somehow lost after being transmitted to the receiver and the system sounded extremely different.

Therefore I strongly suggest, that you make copies in MultEQ and also always save the receiver settings on a USB-stick (make sure, the USB-stick does not contain a config.avr file! if the file is present, it can happen,t hat you see the message that the settings were saved successfully, but it's not...), if you have found a setting, that works and which you want to use as new base.


Less is more! What is also very strange, is the HUGE impact small EQ adjustments on the curve create. I am used to work with EQs daily and I know the impact [email protected] usually has. Here a 0.5dB change can result in totally different sound - and strangely not only impacting the frequency range that was adjusted, but somehow it can affect the whole spectrum and levels.
Which makes it evenmore important, that you save good results.

I don't know if the settings from my curve translate well to every other system, because the mics are not individually calibrated.

I suggest to create the filters in MultEQ and not in ratbuddyssey. And also place them as close you can get to the target frequency and level (remember: 0.5 dB on this app, are NOT equal to 0.5dB in normal EQing - so be as precise as possible) to my numbers.

Audyssey settings:
Dyn EQ OFF
Target curve "Reference" - MultEQ: Rolloff1 setting (choose BEFORE editing the target curve).

The additional filters for the target curve (according to ratbuddyssey):

Front
f (Hz) dB
20.0 12.0
123.84 -0.19938087
265.79 -1.6147652
574.38 -1.7883167
1444.09 -1.3005524
3320.09 -1.5366688
10120.76 -1.6723766


SW:

20.0 6.6110325
79.18 -0.051431656

The boosts @20 Hz look awful, I know! But they are much less effective, because XT32 seems to add a highpass filter.
The additinal filters you see @120 /80Hz serve as anchor points: to reduce the impact from the lower filter on the higher bass frequencies.
MultEQ somehow acts strangely - but what counts is the resulting sound. And with these adjustments it is almost on Sonarworks Reference level.

Keep in mind, that the XT32 mics are not individually calibrated! I don't know how big the difference between the mics are, but if your mic is similar sounding to mine, the above settings should work well.
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Last edited by Skinfax1; 12-25-2018 at 04:31 PM.
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post #88 of 186 Old 12-28-2018, 03:36 AM
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So I have a Marantz NR1608 (MultEQ I think), and when loading the file the app crashes more or less whatever I do (try to add a frequency point for instance), and it also shows no graph (not sure if it's supposed to that when I load)?

Interested in having my ady-file for debugging purposes?
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post #89 of 186 Old 01-01-2019, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Shout out to someone much smarter than me, who is using @ToBeFrank 's post from here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...l#post56637090 to do this for me:



It will have logarithmic X axis when done. Also, if we can figure out how, I'll add smoothing options and maybe an average function. Currently, you select mic positions from the dropdown and can see the responses from each.

Now you know why I left such a big blank area on the program window :P

What is the "db" graph on the left. I'm not seeing that anywhere within the program...
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post #90 of 186 Old 01-01-2019, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lknhomeaudio View Post
What is the "db" graph on the left. I'm not seeing that anywhere within the program...
Sorry, not sure I follow, you just posted the same frequency response curves right next to each other. The scale might be a little off in my program, I haven't tested it yet.
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