Announcing ratbuddyssey - a tool for tweaking Audyssey MultEQ app files - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 192 Old 04-30-2019, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't even confirmed it's broken yet. I need to find time to run sweeps and look at the data file to see if they changed stuff. If someone wants to email me one, I'm happy to look and see if there's anything obvious they did, the fewer speakers and measurement points, the better. Two channels plus sub with only three mic positions would be enough to generate a file. Failing that, I'll try to find time to run them this weekend.

Do old measurement files work with the new version of the app?
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post #152 of 192 Old 04-30-2019, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
I haven't even confirmed it's broken yet. I need to find time to run sweeps and look at the data file to see if they changed stuff. If someone wants to email me one, I'm happy to look and see if there's anything obvious they did, the fewer speakers and measurement points, the better. Two channels plus sub with only three mic positions would be enough to generate a file. Failing that, I'll try to find time to run them this weekend.



Do old measurement files work with the new version of the app?


The POC from Audyssey on the MultEQ app thread did say there was no need to re-run the calibrations after the app version was released that fixed the 3 dB dip at 20 Hz.

I would say that means that old measurement files work with the new version of the app.

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post #153 of 192 Old 04-30-2019, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting, they may have implemented tighter type enforcement on some fields where my program was outputting a slightly wrong number format or something. I will see what I can do, sorry about that.
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post #154 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 04:41 PM
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Question: The MultEQ editor app only works on Marantz x011 (eg 7011, 6011..) and onwards. Do you know if this is a hardware, firmware or software-imposed limitation? Is there any chance perhaps this app can work with just one generation earlier - the 7010, maybe after doing something 'clever' like putting 7011 firmware into a 7010...?

/me points hopefully at his signature.. guess which one I have.. The device is 99.9% identical to its successor...

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post #155 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by puntloos View Post
Question: The MultEQ editor app only works on Marantz x011 (eg 7011, 6011..) and onwards. Do you know if this is a hardware, firmware or software-imposed limitation? Is there any chance perhaps this app can work with just one generation earlier - the 7010, maybe after doing something 'clever' like putting 7011 firmware into a 7010...?

/me points hopefully at his signature.. guess which one I have.. The device is 99.9% identical to its successor...

Unfortunately you can't use the Audyssey app due to a hardware limitation. I was told on the Marantz 8802A it was because of some sort of hardware limitation like ram, etc. Unfortunately you would need to upgrade to a newer Denon or Marantz.

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post #156 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Bechtold View Post
Unfortunately you can't use the Audyssey app due to a hardware limitation. I was told on the Marantz 8802A it was because of some sort of hardware limitation like ram, etc. Unfortunately you would need to upgrade to a newer Denon or Marantz.
Could be RAM, my main impression currently is that the 7010 and below don't have some functionality to "upload/download" files (curve files, in particular). Or does that work somehow?

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post #157 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by puntloos View Post
Could be RAM, my main impression currently is that the 7010 and below don't have some functionality to "upload/download" files (curve files, in particular). Or does that work somehow?

I remember ram being the main issue on the 8802A, may have been some other limitation. Either way I went to my 8805 and bypassed that limitation.

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post #158 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 07:15 PM
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I remember ram being the main issue on the 8802A, may have been some other limitation. Either way I went to my 8805 and bypassed that limitation.

I can imagine, but I'm wondering if spending $1500(or so) is worth it.

Am I correct that currently for Atmos setups, MultEQ Editor + REW + UMIK1 probably gets you closest to optimal room setup/correction?
Or is REW and MultEQ Editor kinda separate? I can't quite work that out..

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post #159 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 07:16 PM
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I remember ram being the main issue on the 8802A, may have been some other limitation. Either way I went to my 8805 and bypassed that limitation.
As did I. There were 2 driving issues that pushed me to upgrade my 7701 to a 7703. The first was the ability to use the Editor app. The other was Atmos/DTS-X decoding which I'm very happy with, immersive soundfields can add much to the movie and musical listening experience.

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post #160 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by puntloos View Post
I can imagine, but I'm wondering if spending $1500(or so) is worth it.

Am I correct that currently for Atmos setups, MultEQ Editor + REW + UMIK1 probably gets you closest to optimal room setup/correction?
Or is REW and MultEQ Editor kinda separate? I can't quite work that out..
REW and MultEQ Editor are separate. You use REW to verify that the editor is doing what it thinks it's doing. The after graphs the Editor presents are predictions of what it is doing, but it doesn't actually check it see if that's what happened. You use REW to verify your MultEQ settings.
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post #161 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 07:50 PM
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REW and MultEQ Editor are separate. You use REW to verify that the editor is doing what it thinks it's doing. The after graphs the Editor presents are predictions of what it is doing, but it doesn't actually check it see if that's what happened. You use REW to verify your MultEQ settings.
Got it, but without the editor you basically have to hope that audyssey does its thing properly, no? Meaning to get to 'optimal' you'd have to do a lot of extra legwork running the audyssey, then REW calibration multiple times whilst shifting stuff around, hoping that the next go-round is better?

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post #162 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
REW and MultEQ Editor are separate. You use REW to verify that the editor is doing what it thinks it's doing. The after graphs the Editor presents are predictions of what it is doing, but it doesn't actually check it see if that's what happened. You use REW to verify your MultEQ settings.
Exactly. REW can be considered a advanced accessory to Editor. It will allow you to do very detailed measurements of the room beyond what Editor is capable of. Then you could go back and do minor tweaks to your curves, etc; if desired.

But Editor is a great app and can function perfectly well all by itself.
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post #163 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by puntloos View Post
Got it, but without the editor you basically have to hope that audyssey does its thing properly, no? Meaning to get to 'optimal' you'd have to do a lot of extra legwork running the audyssey, then REW calibration multiple times whilst shifting stuff around, hoping that the next go-round is better?
Yes, that is what some people do. Fortunately, I am either lucky or not as picky, because I like the sound Audyssey got for me, although I did limit calibration to 500 kHz. I have not really used REW in any substantive way, myself. I have some vacations coming up, and may spend more time on it. Or not. Haven't decided yet. There is going to be a reworking of my room this summer, one way or another, how much time I actually spend calibrating is yet TBD.

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post #164 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 08:01 PM
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Yes, that is what some people do. Fortunately, I am either lucky or not as picky, because I like the sound Audyssey got for me, although I did limit calibration to 500 kHz. I have not really used REW in any substantive way, myself. I have some vacations coming up, and may spend more time on it. Or not. Haven't decided yet. There is going to be a reworking of my room this summer, one way or another, how much time I actually spend calibrating is yet TBD.
Ha, yes indeed. it's all perhaps a little 'tinkering in the margins' but hopefully you'd only have to do it once?

As luck might have it I have a friend who has the Denon 4300H (which supports MultEQ) who might be willing to swap my 7010 for that one. Even today the 7010 is a little more expensive than 4300H for reasons unknown, perhaps HDAM makes it slightly more audiophile... but I'm tempted to suggest a swap and offer him 50 quid for his trouble..
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post #165 of 192 Old 05-26-2019, 08:10 PM
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Ha, yes indeed. it's all perhaps a little 'tinkering in the margins' but hopefully you'd only have to do it once?

As luck might have it I have a friend who has the Denon 4300H (which supports MultEQ) who might be willing to swap my 7010 for that one. Even today the 7010 is a little more expensive than 4300H for reasons unknown, perhaps HDAM makes it slightly more audiophile... but I'm tempted to suggest a swap and offer him 50 quid for his trouble..
The HDAM is Marantz' party piece, not sure how important it is in real life to most people. As you probably know, the Marantz are based on Denons, but are also slightly different. I have the x4300h(bought on clearance) myself, and have found it pretty much exactly what I need. I was going to get a slightly nicer Marantz(also on clearance at the time, I'm a cheap bastard), but I don't like the porthole display, and ultimately, I decided all I was getting for the few extra hundred dollars was the Marantz name.

To me, the x4300h, and it's successors, the x4400h and x4500h are the ultimate entry into ATMOS. They give you everything you need(with an additional stereo amp) to get a solid 7.1.4 ATMOS setup. In the States, you can get one of them for $800ish, even the newest one if you have a Fry's nearby, and get the emailed sales piece.
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post #166 of 192 Old 05-27-2019, 06:05 AM
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REW is also a great tool to help you place your speakers especially your subs before even running Audyssey.
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post #167 of 192 Old 05-27-2019, 11:26 AM
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REW is also a great tool to help you place your speakers especially your subs before even running Audyssey.
Ha. I'm sure you're right and as a bonus I'm currently designing my new livingroom (yep new house build from scratch). My challenge: where to put the cabling (in the walls) to be able to cover most potential subwoofer(s) locations. It'd be depressing if I have a perfectly cool spot in mind and it just fails dramatically..

I'm starting to think I should just put cables down in a bunch of potential locations rather than try to predict the logical spots..

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post #168 of 192 Old 05-27-2019, 03:09 PM
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Ha. I'm sure you're right and as a bonus I'm currently designing my new livingroom (yep new house build from scratch). My challenge: where to put the cabling (in the walls) to be able to cover most potential subwoofer(s) locations. It'd be depressing if I have a perfectly cool spot in mind and it just fails dramatically..

I'm starting to think I should just put cables down in a bunch of potential locations rather than try to predict the logical spots..
If worst comes to worst, you can get a wireless connection for your subwoofer, so don't drive yourself too crazy, or just resign yourself to the possibility of having a longer cable run for the subwoofer than everything else. It isn't the end of the world.
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post #169 of 192 Old 05-27-2019, 03:27 PM
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If worst comes to worst, you can get a wireless connection for your subwoofer, so don't drive yourself too crazy, or just resign yourself to the possibility of having a longer cable run for the subwoofer than everything else. It isn't the end of the world.
Butbutbut the Feng Sui of the room and stuff.

Srsly, you're right of course, but I am tending towards the approach of effectively having a cable exit the wall at every major section of the wall. Trivial to do when building, not so much when it's built...
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post #170 of 192 Old 05-27-2019, 05:42 PM
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Soon to be Junior dev here. First of all props to all that was involved. I was wondering if you disassembled the new app and reverse engineered it, figured out the API, or is the API freely available? Just trying to learn something here. I know the app hasn't been out but for a week or two so again... I tip my hat to you! The coding that I have done so far has taken much time for little usability so you must have been working crazy hard on this. I know when I get an idea in my head I can go days optimizing algorithms without a break and there's no doubt in my mind that I am in good company. Feel free to PM me if you would rather not discuss it in an open forum 😁
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post #171 of 192 Old 05-30-2019, 12:11 PM
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Interesting, they may have implemented tighter type enforcement on some fields where my program was outputting a slightly wrong number format or something. I will see what I can do, sorry about that.

Hi.
Any news?

Good sound is always the result of engineering. And engineering always starts with measuring. Consumer industry and mainstream will never tell customers about that: improvements in room acoustics are worth roughly ten (10!) times the amount spent on equipment like speakers and receivers. For example: only $500 in room treatment is worth more than spending $5000 (fivethousand) on equipment.
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post #172 of 192 Old 05-30-2019, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Soon to be Junior dev here. First of all props to all that was involved. I was wondering if you disassembled the new app and reverse engineered it, figured out the API, or is the API freely available? Just trying to learn something here. I know the app hasn't been out but for a week or two so again... I tip my hat to you! The coding that I have done so far has taken much time for little usability so you must have been working crazy hard on this. I know when I get an idea in my head I can go days optimizing algorithms without a break and there's no doubt in my mind that I am in good company. Feel free to PM me if you would rather not discuss it in an open forum 😁
While I have done some wireless packet captures (what a pain!) from the app to my receiver, and maybe even posted them earlier in this thread, I wrote my stuff prior to doing that, and prior to any disassembly of the app I may or may not have done. Honestly, it's a very plain and boring app, nothing special in the slightest. It's CRUD with an interface. The receiver's API, as I'm sure you suspect, is the interesting part. I haven't had time to dive more into that, yet.

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Hi.
Any news?
None, sorry. My first daughter is due in October and I've been trying to focus on paying work When I get time, I'll come back to this project.
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post #173 of 192 Old 05-30-2019, 02:09 PM
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Congrats, Ratbuddy!

Enjoy this time in your life, and don’t worry about our consistent insistence that you work on this free app for us!


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post #174 of 192 Old 06-05-2019, 01:41 PM
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My first daughter is due in October and I've been trying to focus on paying work When I get time, I'll come back to this project.
Woo Hoo!! Major congrats on the approaching birth of your first daughter.
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post #175 of 192 Old 06-09-2019, 07:41 AM
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None, sorry. My first daughter is due in October and I've been trying to focus on paying work When I get time, I'll come back to this project.
Too bad!
All the best.

Good sound is always the result of engineering. And engineering always starts with measuring. Consumer industry and mainstream will never tell customers about that: improvements in room acoustics are worth roughly ten (10!) times the amount spent on equipment like speakers and receivers. For example: only $500 in room treatment is worth more than spending $5000 (fivethousand) on equipment.
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post #176 of 192 Old 06-09-2019, 10:10 AM
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Just out of curiosity: is the current state of radbuddysey that it's "usable"? Or are there major bugs preventing it from doing useful things with it?

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post #177 of 192 Old 06-19-2019, 10:00 AM
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None, sorry. My first daughter is due in October and I've been trying to focus on paying work When I get time, I'll come back to this project.

Congratulations on your first one ! I had a chance to mess with the app with the little free time I have left ( I have a 4 year old boy; get some sleep! you'll need it) and I was surprised to see how usable the app is given it's early state in development. Gone are the days of using a tablet pen on my ipad trying to create a custom curve.
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post #178 of 192 Old 06-19-2019, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Just out of curiosity: is the current state of radbuddysey that it's "usable"? Or are there major bugs preventing it from doing useful things with it?
I *think* it's usable. I've heard about some incompatibility with the latest version of the app, but I've loaded my .ady file from a recent calibration and it seems to look OK. I didn't try modding the .ady and reuploading it to the receiver, but I'll give that a shot over the weekend now that they've fixed the low bass rolloff bug.
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post #179 of 192 Old 06-19-2019, 10:51 AM
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(snip)
… but I'll give that a shot over the weekend now that they've fixed the low bass rolloff bug.
Wasn't that a feature?
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post #180 of 192 Old 06-19-2019, 10:54 AM
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I *think* it's usable. I've heard about some incompatibility with the latest version of the app, but I've loaded my .ady file from a recent calibration and it seems to look OK. I didn't try modding the .ady and reuploading it to the receiver, but I'll give that a shot over the weekend now that they've fixed the low bass rolloff bug.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
Wasn't that a feature?
"Feature".

Let's just say poor design, as it was done deliberately, although with good intentions.
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