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Announcing ratbuddyssey - a tool for tweaking Audyssey MultEQ app files

449K views 2K replies 229 participants last post by  LastButNotLeast 
#1 · (Edited)
Cornball name, I know, but it was that, or fraudyssey, and being a bit vain, I went with my name :p

Anyway:

I like the idea of the MultEQ app, but the execution left me wanting a bit more. I wanted to be able to precisely input my custom target curve points, rather than fiddling with a small touchscreen and/or an Android emulator. I wanted simple checkboxes, and I wanted all of the data on one screen, rather than having to flip through pages of a mobile-centric app. With some feedback and suggestions from the fine folks in the MultEQ app thread, I've done my best to make it happen.

Sometime tomorrow, when I've finished preliminary testing and cleaning up the UI a bit more, I'll be releasing an early test build of the program me and a few talented folks from Upwork have created. You'll be able to load in your .ady files, modify them by checking boxes and entering data, and saving the results (only to a new file for now, I don't want to mangle anyones files).

It's gonna be dangerous. You can alter fields which, I promise you, will completely break your .ady file. Don't change anything if you aren't really sure you know what it will do. Changing speaker sizes, crossovers, distances, levels, midrange compensation on/off, frequency cutoff, and target curve points and type, those should all be fine. Everything else is firmly in 'I wouldn't touch that, if I were you' territory.

I need testers. Load your .ady files into the program, change stuff, load the modified .ady file into the MultEQ app, and upload it to your receiver. I *hope* that nothing can be so broken by this program that a factory reset won't fix it, but I can't promise that. If you volunteer to test or decide to run the program, please do so with the understanding that you use the software at your own risk, and I make no promise that it won't break something. Again, it shouldn't break anything too badly, but if you put weird stuff in the fields or I messed up something I shouldn't have, there's a (small) chance of it hurting your receiver. If that's a scary thought to you, please hold off until the program has had some testing.

That said, I'm testing it on my SR8012 now, so I'm definitely putting my money where my mouth is :)

I'll post more details when the program is ready to be downloaded, and I'll make public a github repo with the source code, for folks who would prefer to compile it for themselves. PLEASE do feel free to suggest improvements, and please do report any bugs. If someone wants to contribute or fork the project, by all means, I'd welcome the help.

Please do understand that this is my first Windows desktop program, and my first time wrangling extra help from Upwork. I chose the tech I did because I started a new job working with C# and wanted to throw something together for practice. I know the project probably could have been done in a more cross-platform fashion, but I needed to do this particular tech stack to gain experience. I'm very happy with the performance as well. With my ~23mb .ady file from a 7.2.4 calibration, the program only uses around 250mb of ram, and opens and saves the files very quickly.

As of right now, this is what it looks like:



Just a few UI elements to tweak, a few menu items to fix, plus I'm doing some preliminary testing of custom curves (lower left of the image) to make sure they're at least somewhat functional, and then I'll throw it out there for any brave early testers.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Release info:

(Updated link to version 0.2.1 on 1-3-19)

https://github.com/ratbuddy/ratbuddyssey/releases/tag/v0.2.1

The source is freely available, and contributions are very much welcomed. If you prefer to compile it yourself, go nuts as well. What I could really use is some help with packaging the application so it's more user friendly, a .msi or something with the ability to update over itself. If I have time, I'll figure out how to do that. Until then, here we are :)

I've updated to use a simple .zip file with no installation needed. Just unzip somewhere and run ratbuddyssey.exe, that should be all you need to do.
 
#135 ·
Release info:

(Updated link to version 0.2.1 on 1-3-19)


The source is freely available, and contributions are very much welcomed. If you prefer to compile it yourself, go nuts as well. What I could really use is some help with packaging the application so it's more user friendly, a .msi or something with the ability to update over itself. If I have time, I'll figure out how to do that. Until then, here we are :)

I've updated to use a simple .zip file with no installation needed. Just unzip somewhere and run ratbuddyssey.exe, that should be all you need to do.
@ratbuddy




No idea how I stumbled upon this post but this looks like a great tool. Thanks for making it open-source. I've pulled the repo and will have some time to dig in in late Apr/early May once work settles down. I have a Denon receiver so this is very relevant to me and I do signal and image compression research for day job so seems like a good fit.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Known issues:

  • MultEQ app crashes if you change the distance in my program then load the .ady in the official app.
  • Reference and flat seem to be swapped, and it mutes flat when you select reference in ratbuddyssey.
  • Should make channel 55 (second subwoofer) mostly non-editable, since it's not a 'real' channel, the subs are measured together in channel 54 and 55 is just for distance and +/- dB of the second sub.
  • Give 'Frequency Cutoff' an 'apply to all channels' button
  • Crash when selecting a measurement position that doesn't exist in the file
 
#242 · (Edited by Moderator)
Known issues:
Reference and flat seem to be swapped, and it mutes flat when you select reference in ratbuddyssey.
@adam2434
Post no3 from the creator. ;)
You just don't touch it and all will be good

Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-L29 using Tapatalk
 
#6 ·
Sadly, no chance of that. That part is done based on the parameters (including impulse responses) in these .ady files, but it's done by the app itself (or on the receiver, if you don't use the app) and is not something I can change. Well, I could, but it would involve more reverse engineering than I want to do, and would probably ultimately end up with a lawsuit, or at least a nasty letter from a lawyer telling me to stop. Letting folks change the parameters in the file, while leaving untouched what Audyssey actually does with the file, is about all I'm willing to risk. Sorry!
 
#10 · (Edited)
I dunno, I wanted to, so I assumed other people might want to as well. Personally, I'd rather just make all my changes in one place, and I find the 'one page full of checkboxes and stuff' interface more usable than the phone app, where everything is hidden behind layers of menus. Obviously, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and you might only want to use it for curve editing - that's fine!

Hi, very useful tool!
A question: I see that frequency and db attenuation or boost can be edited. What about the "Q" of the filter? Can be edited as well?
Sadly, I don't think so. The curve editor in the app only generates data in frequency:boost/cut pairs, so those are all I can change. Maybe there are other hidden parameters, but I sorta doubt it.

That said, I have no idea how many target curve points you can use. You could potentially simulate a wide or narrow Q filter by adding some intermediate points either closer or farther from the center point, and it might work. I don't know - that's one of the first things that needs to be tested :)

If it turns out to support many custom curve points, I'll add support for shelf filters and other nifty stuff. If it turns out to only support a few custom curve points, this whole thing was a big waste of time :cool:

so for the lamers and cliff noters like myself, how can I use this tool for something like a Marantz AV8802A? How do I access the audyssey configuration file in the unit?
You'd need a receiver or preamp which supports the official Audyssey MultEQ app - I don't think the 8802 does, but I could be wrong on that. Sorry!

edit: Hmm.. I think the receiver only stores the already-calculated correction curves, but maybe there's something I can do? Can you (or anyone with a non-MultEQ-app-supporting receiver) try backing up your settings to USB and zipping up whatever files it puts there, then emailing them to me at my username here at gmail? Thanks!
 
#11 ·
Sadly, I don't think so. The curve editor in the app only generates data in frequency:boost/cut pairs, so those are all I can change. Maybe there are other hidden parameters, but I sorta doubt it.
Nice work, ratbuddy!

I wonder if this is why when you try to make a precise edit (very narrow frequency range) to the curve with the app, it just collapses and won't let you get that close? Ie. you're trying to narrow the "Q" beyond the abilities of the app or data collected.
 
#9 ·
so for the lamers and cliff noters like myself, how can I use this tool for something like a Marantz AV8802A? How do I access the audyssey configuration file in the unit?
 
#12 ·
does this work on the files when we backup the Audyssey config on usb drive ?
 
#14 · (Edited)
Did some testing, and it works. At least partially, which is better than not-at-all-ly. In the first image here, you can see a bunch of random filters I threw in, and their effect on the output after uploading the .ady to my SR8012:



Red is the existing default target curve, blue is my target points from the right side of the image. Looks OK, but wait, nothing happened above ~500hz. Hmm.

Oh. Right. For another test, I set the front channels to only correct up to 487 hz. I forgot to change it back when I was done.



Purple is the run after removing the 487 hz limit and letting it correct all the way to 20,000 hz. Much better :)

See how wide the 2,500 hz cut is? I would appreciate some help from folks, testing different data point arrangements to see how narrow we can get the filters. If we add one at 2,490 with 0dB and another at 2,510 with 0dB, will it be a very narrow filter, or will it reduce the depth of the -12dB filter to meet some slope requirement? Who knows! Let's test!

A few more basic tests on my end tonight or tomorrow, then I'll figure out how to package it up for test release.
 
#15 ·
denon x4300
some files extracted from the config.tar saved on usb
 

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#17 ·
Does the audyssey app allow you to set crossovers per speaker pair before running the calculations? If not, will this app allow for it? Looking at the screenshot from the UI it appears rat buddy’s app at least does this. This was one of the most useful features of audyssey pro when I had it. It allowed the user to change crossover of the speaker pairs without mucking up the blend with the sub.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#18 ·
Does the audyssey app allow you to set crossovers per speaker pair before running the calculations? If not, will this app allow for it? Looking at the screenshot from the UI it appears rat buddy’s app at least does this. This was one of the most useful features of audyssey pro when I had it. It allowed the user to change crossover of the speaker pairs without mucking up the blend with the sub.
Is that something different from setting the crossover in the receiver UI? I think that's all the app lets you do, basically change the same setting you could in the receiver menus.
 
#25 ·
Ok. Thanks! This means the filter calculation does take the crossover into account as long as you do it in the app before uploading it to the receiver. If this is the case, you should not ever change the crossover in the receiver only in the app. Changing it in the receiver could mess up the crossover region.

It would be nice to see some measurements to verify. If it is the case, then the only difference between the app and pro is the ability to use a calibrated microphone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#34 ·
I apologize, I put this program to the side when I got a third sub. In the course of adding a MiniDSP 2x4 HD and running a bunch of tests, I found that I greatly preferred the sound of my system with no Audyssey at all. To confirm I wasn't just imagining things, I turned Audyssey back on (with the app-run calibration, not the on-receiver version), and again it sucked the life from the sound, especially in the bass region. I'm currently experimenting with the why and how this happens. It really is an incredible difference, like, there's no way it's intentional, and if it is, I won't use Audyssey any more.

I do need to fix one small thing (save as) before I release the program for brave early testers, I'll do that tonight when I get home.

Again, sorry about the delay!
 
#35 ·
Have you played with the target curve? The standard Audyssey in-room curve is relatively flat, which is going to sound very weak in the bass region. A speaker's natural sound in room is going to give a downward tilting response at the listening position. This is what you actually want.

I only let Audyssey EQ my subs to deal with the peaks and dips, then I adjust the sub volume to get the desired level. The result is great. I get the EQed bass from the subs, and the correct on-axis sound from the speaker (seriously you shouldn't EQ above the transition frequency of the room).
 
#37 ·
#38 ·
Alright, did what I could to clean it up for testing, and the second post has been updated with release info. If someone looks at the code and thinks 'holy crap, this is bad!' then you sound like a great candidate to contribute improvements. Everyone else, please do post feedback here. I know there's a lot of broken stuff, but I don't have a list going yet, so even if it's something you think I already know, unless you see it posted here already, please do post it.

Thanks, and good luck!
 
#42 ·
Cool, glad it's at least partially working.

One thing I forgot to mention, the mobile app only lets you change certain parameters in pairs, like the cutoff frequency and curve editor stuff. In the file, they are stored individually per channel. I let you edit it per channel, but in the app, they only display for the first channel in the pair. Example, if you add a custom curve to the front right speaker in my program, it *should* work fine in the receiver (test this, please!). If you view that .ady in the app though, you'll just see whatever curve you have configured for the front left channel. It's just how the app works, but my program should let you individually configure each speaker, even if the app doesn't show that you did :)
 
#43 ·
Rattbuddy: that's is, so far, the most interesting thing that you bring to us. Shame to Audyssey cause they never though on this main point.
First: what about assimetric room?
Second (this is my case): what about people with partial deaf on one ear?

Now, i can try and experiment to extract all the juice without deal with pair of speakers.
 
#45 ·
Just been doing some testing with the program and thought I would like to share my finding.
The program worked/saved/uploaded very smoothly between my windows 10 and Marantz AVR-7011, I was positively surprised at how smooth the program runned considering it still in it's first beta stage
(Thanks ratbuddy for the hard work)
so far been testing a few function in the program and they worked accordingly -and YES u can now edit each channel/speaker individually I have confirmed that with actual measurement using REW.
back to the most the important function of this program which is the (Frequency Boost/Cut) unfortunately this function still need some work to be done, it's messy inacurrate and at some points not responsive at all, iam posting some graph below to illustrate the results I had from my own test. in my own room and on my own system.

First photo is the ADY. file -Unedited
Second photo ADY. file -Edtited (just randomly applied some Boost/Cut to the Freq. curve to see how effective they are)
Third photo is the graph results from both Before/After)
Blue =Ady. file -Unedited
Red =ADY. file -Edited

again thanks ratbuddy for the hard work. keep up the good work
 

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#50 ·
Do keep in mind that we can only edit the 'target curve' and don't have direct control over the EQ points. Sadly, I don't think I'll be able to give full PEQ functionality, just a little better control over that target curve than the app gives. The actual applied EQ curves are completely decided by the app and Audyssey algorithms.

That said, I'd love to see some testing which determines how narrow and tall we can get it to filter. If we do 990hz 0dB, 1000hz +12dB, 1010hz 0dB, what will REW show? Probably best to do no smoothing or 1/24 at most for that kind of test, or the results could be smoothed right out :)

edit: Hmm, I'd like to test shelf filters too.. Put +9dB at 0hz (or 20, or whatever minimum - need to test how low this goes too) and another +9dB around 80hz, then 0dB at 81hz, what will happen? No idea! Will it only boost in a range around the end frequencies, or will it make a shelf between them?
 
#51 ·
Hi, I did rew measurement after using the ratbuddy app and it is working really well. It do own adjustment for example for the right and left front channels and you can put as many Frequency Boost/Cut you want. Only thing I noticed that didn't work was that if you change for example speaker distance at the programme the MultEQ mobile app is not able to handle it and shuts down when I try to go Speaker detection results.

I have also question when I looked Marco1975 post he has mark on the lfcSupport and his SystemDelay is 124, what those means? I have no mark on lfcSupport and my delay is 280!! :)

I have Denon AVR-X3300W
 
#53 ·
I have also question when I looked Marco1975 post he has mark on the lfcSupport and his SystemDelay is 124, what those means? I have no mark on lfcSupport and my delay is 280!! :)
I have Denon AVR-X3300W
That simply depend on which feature of Audyssey your AVR. has on board.
LFC. means =Low Frequency containment, it dynamically targets and lowers the particular frequency range that can pass through walls so that u don't disturb your neighbour as much (think of late night mode on AVR.)
The Denon AVR-X3300W dosn't have that feature of Audyssey.
 
#56 ·
New measurments and testing, as I have mentioned in my previous post above, about the boosting for the subwoofer channel, I did confirm that with a new measurments today , and yes as I have expected unfortunately boosting doesn't work for the subwoofer, u can lower but u can't boost, I was also observing the Boost/cut function maximum ability, and it maxed out at +20/-20db. a maximum boost of +20db. in actuality will give u only about +5 db. when u send the file to the AVR., and a maximum cut of -20db. will lower it by about -10db.


Blue curve =ADY. file Unedited
Red curve =ADY. file Edited
 

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#58 ·
sounds like a good idea, because to achieve the desired +/-20 db. in Audyssey u would need to to change the limit to something like +/-60 db.:)
perhaps u could also look into the subwoofer channel ? as u can see in the graph it doesn't respond to boost only cut , beside that subwoofer nr. 2 doesn't save the changes.
 
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