The *Official* Emotiva RMC-1 owners thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 880 Old 01-06-2019, 05:50 AM
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I'm using XLR to XLR also. Neotech NEI 3001 in custom length all diy.

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post #272 of 880 Old 01-06-2019, 06:23 AM
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I was wondering the same thing. Any need to re-pin the cables, or is everyone plugging them in as-is? I'll be running mine through ART T8's since I seem to have a ground loop I can't track down.
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post #273 of 880 Old 01-06-2019, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Nvidia Shield

Quote:
Originally Posted by deewan View Post
As I stated above, firmware 1.1.4 seems to do fine with Dolby (Mad Max). It still struggles with DTS (Lone Survivor). I have yet to experience a DTS movie of more than 30 minutes and not get an audio issue of some sort sine owning the RMC. I think 'm 4 for 4 without an audio issue when using Dolby soundtracks since installing firmware 1.1.4.
Interestingly, when I just ran my Nvidia Shield yesterday, with the Oppo disconnected, I was able to watch a full movie without issue, as well as youtube. Either they made improvements to the latest firmware, there is something to only having 1 source connected via hdmi, the sequence that you turn things on is important, or there is a combo of things that appear to be helping.

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post #274 of 880 Old 01-06-2019, 07:23 AM
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The *Official* Emotiva RMC-1 owners thread

Honest question

I was interested in this unit, but with these problems discussed by every owner the product was sorely unfinished at shipping. Frankly, even more so than expected.

1) Why would Emotiva release a long anticipated flagship receiver in this condition? Menus don’t work, can’t playback a full length movie without A/V dropouts, no DIRAC, bugs in the order of powering up devices, lockups, etc. These are all known issues on Emotiva’s side. This things are horrible PR for Emotiva.

2) Why would several of you knowingly buy this $5k Pre-pro in the last few days, while the issues are still unsettled — all amid this problem discussion. I get the early adopters hopeful and optimistic mentality. I don’t understand a current adopters rationale. Do a few more channels of audio make acceptable to you this level of bugs?

Honest talk —
The only rationale I can think of for Emotiva to start shipping this RMC-1 with all the known bugs is that A) some other market player has a product coming that will dent their luster, and they needed to get some of their units sold before they got stuck with them, or B) they needed funding to keep the doors open and continue development — so they sell X of them to raise the target funds and gimp along a couple months in hopes they can keep the doors open. NEITHER of these scenarios is good.

What am I missing?

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post #275 of 880 Old 01-06-2019, 07:48 AM
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@Archaea

1) Emotiva stated they honestly did not experience any of the issues that are being found with the RMC. I tend to believe people, but that communication is hard to swallow. It wasn't as if people had to search for these issues or were only experienced with odd equipment setups. Oppo players, Apple TV's and cable boxes are having a lot of issues with the RMC, not some knockoff video card from an unheard of computer company. The issues are point blank in your face the moment you begin using the machine. Not sure who they had test it in house, or if they had beta testers, but both need to be rethought before being used again. I've yet to see anyone be able to watch a full movie without audio issues with firmware 1.0 that was released with the unit, so how did they successfully pass testing?!?!

2) I was in the first wave of buyers so when I made my purchase nobody knew the extend of the issues. I expected a few hiccups, but not to this extent. If I had known, I would have waited and weighed my other options. Maybe someone from the second wave can explain, but I cannot. One thought, maybe the second wave buyers don't fully understand how troublesome the issues were and maybe they just don't care if the issues exist. Everyone has difference standards.

I don't believe Emotiva (Jade Design) as a company is hurting for money based on sales of other products and their continued development. They have had fewer sales then they have in the past so it doesn't appear they are trying to find money in a hurry (outside of this RMC preorder mess). The RMC project I am sure was a money pit for years and there may have been some accounting reasons they needed some cash before the end of 2018 within that segment. But overall I don't think Emotiva is hurting. A lot of their other products sell out regularly. I'm guessing the release of the RMC was to ensure they didn't miss another deadline, another calendar year didn't come and go without the promised RMC and perhaps to get out in front of announcements from Monoprice on their 16 channel processor. But even that product doesn't contain everything the RMC does and is ~6 months away.

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post #276 of 880 Old 01-06-2019, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deewan View Post
@Archaea

1) Emotiva stated they honestly did not experience any of the issues that are being found with the RMC. I tend to believe people, but that communication is hard to swallow. It wasn't as if people had to search for these issues or were only experienced with odd equipment setups. Oppo players, Apple TV's and cable boxes are having a lot of issues with the RMC, not some knockoff video card from an unheard of computer company. The issues are point blank in your face the moment you begin using the machine. Not sure who they had test it in house, or if they had beta testers, but both need to be rethought before being used again. I've yet to see anyone be able to watch a full movie without audio issues with firmware 1.0 that was released with the unit, so how did they successfully pass testing?!?!

2) I was in the first wave of buyers so when I made my purchase nobody knew the extend of the issues. I expected a few hiccups, but not to this extent. If I had known, I would have waited and weighed my other options. Maybe someone from the second wave can explain, but I cannot. One thought, maybe the second wave buyers don't fully understand how troublesome the issues were and maybe they just don't care if the issues exist. Everyone has difference standards.

I don't believe Emotiva (Jade Design) as a company is hurting for money based on sales of other products and their continued development. They have had fewer sales then they have in the past so it doesn't appear they are trying to find money in a hurry (outside of this RMC preorder mess). The RMC project I am sure was a money pit for years and there may have been some accounting reasons they needed some cash before the end of 2018 within that segment. But overall I don't think Emotiva is hurting. A lot of their other products sell out regularly. I'm guessing the release of the RMC was to ensure they didn't miss another deadline, another calendar year didn't come and go without the promised RMC and perhaps to get out in front of announcements from Monoprice on their 16 channel processor. But even that product doesn't contain everything the RMC does and is ~6 months away.
I agree with what you are saying about why they released it. I would say additionally they are running out of time for this to be relevant at this price. How long will it be before Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, etc come out with 16+ channel solutions that are most likely cheaper? By the end of this year I would guess. Same for NAD and others that already have DIRAC I’m sure they will have something out within 12-18 months or sooner that will be 16+ channels.
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post #277 of 880 Old 01-06-2019, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Honest question

I was interested in this unit, but with these problems discussed by every owner the product was sorely unfinished at shipping. Frankly, even more so than expected.

1) Why would Emotiva release a long anticipated flagship receiver in this condition? Menus don’t work, can’t playback a full length movie without A/V dropouts, no DIRAC, bugs in the order of powering up devices, lockups, etc. These are all known issues on Emotiva’s side. This things are horrible PR for Emotiva.

2) Why would several of you knowingly buy this $5k Pre-pro in the last few days, while the issues are still unsettled — all amid this problem discussion. I get the early adopters hopeful and optimistic mentality. I don’t understand a current adopters rationale. Do a few more channels of audio make acceptable to you this level of bugs?

Honest talk —
The only rationale I can think of for Emotiva to start shipping this RMC-1 with all the known bugs is that A) some other market player has a product coming that will dent their luster, and they needed to get some of their units sold before they got stuck with them, or B) they needed funding to keep the doors open and continue development — so they sell X of them to raise the target funds and gimp along a couple months in hopes they can keep the doors open. NEITHER of these scenarios is good.

What am I missing?
At least two new buyers over on the Emotiva Lounge have stated they think it's fun to buy a new $4999.00 AVR with quirks and bugs so they can play around figuring them out...

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post #278 of 880 Old 01-06-2019, 09:41 AM
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I'm also guessing that the previous announcement giving a hard release date had something to do with it. Having already missed a few of the soft release dates someone high up decided that they need to set a hard release date as to not have a repeat of the previous fiascos of making numerous release promises broken time after time. So now that they gave a hard release date they had no choice but to release as is. Again, just a guess on my part. I've been hoping for Emotiva to release this in a semi-working version so I can upgrade, but I'll just have to wait it out.

If you think this release is bad, take look at FCA's release of the new Jeep Wrangler JL. At least Emotiva has acknowledged issues with the RMC-1. FCA has released a vehicle with so many issues that could potentially cause a fatal accident and have yet to fix it over a year later. FCA and dealerships have been placing most of the blame on the owners.
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post #279 of 880 Old 01-06-2019, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
I'm also guessing that the previous announcement giving a hard release date had something to do with it. Having already missed a few of the soft release dates someone high up decided that they need to set a hard release date as to not have a repeat of the previous fiascos of making numerous release promises broken time after time. So now that they gave a hard release date they had no choice but to release as is. Again, just a guess on my part. I've been hoping for Emotiva to release this in a semi-working version so I can upgrade, but I'll just have to wait it out.

If you think this release is bad, take look at FCA's release of the new Jeep Wrangler JL. At least Emotiva has acknowledged issues with the RMC-1. FCA has released a vehicle with so many issues that could potentially cause a fatal accident and have yet to fix it over a year later. FCA and dealerships have been placing most of the blame on the owners.
I'm wanting one too and hoping for the best but it is not a good start. I'm now thinking maybe next year. But by then who knows if Denon or Marantz or someone else will have their own version at a competitive price.

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post #280 of 880 Old 01-06-2019, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
At least two new buyers over on the Emotiva Lounge have stated they think it's fun to buy a new $4999.00 AVR with quirks and bugs so they can play around figuring them out...
Sort of in their defense, I too would find it fun to find little issues and help test and resolve the issues. It's half of what I do for my daily job (I love what I do). HOWEVER, these issues should not exist in a product that was released, even to beta testers. These issues should be founding unit testing. That is why I'm not happy. If I find a word spelled wrong in a menu or I can find some small issue with switching video resolutions I would enjoy that. Instead I knew within 20 minutes of plugging in the machine I couldn't watch DTS movies and started having lockups and freezes during cold startups.

For me, there could have been some fun being a beta tester IF the units had been tested in house first.
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post #281 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 01:39 AM
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I had a question regarding the resolution of the RMC-1 meaning the DAC's are capable of handling 192KHz but many processors downsample the incoming signal to 48Khz for audio postprocessing such as DIRAC. Can anyone confirm.

The reason this is important to me is I use a Bryston SP3 currently for both music and movie needs and listen to a lot of high resolution content. Unfortunately the successor to the SP3 the SP4 has the above said limitation where it not only digitises all incoming input but also downsamples them to 48Khz for the processor to apply post processing.
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post #282 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 01:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Honest question

I was interested in this unit, but with these problems discussed by every owner the product was sorely unfinished at shipping. Frankly, even more so than expected.

1) Why would Emotiva release a long anticipated flagship receiver in this condition? Menus don’t work, can’t playback a full length movie without A/V dropouts, no DIRAC, bugs in the order of powering up devices, lockups, etc. These are all known issues on Emotiva’s side. This things are horrible PR for Emotiva.

2) Why would several of you knowingly buy this $5k Pre-pro in the last few days, while the issues are still unsettled — all amid this problem discussion. I get the early adopters hopeful and optimistic mentality. I don’t understand a current adopters rationale. Do a few more channels of audio make acceptable to you this level of bugs?

Honest talk —
The only rationale I can think of for Emotiva to start shipping this RMC-1 with all the known bugs is that A) some other market player has a product coming that will dent their luster, and they needed to get some of their units sold before they got stuck with them, or B) they needed funding to keep the doors open and continue development — so they sell X of them to raise the target funds and gimp along a couple months in hopes they can keep the doors open. NEITHER of these scenarios is good.

What am I missing?
I was one of the first people to purchase the RMC-1 and created this thread with more excitement than I recall having for any other audio or video device. I did not realize that the RMC-1 was not including Dirac until after I placed the order, and I knew that the RMC-1 was experiencing issues when chose to open it last month. The ability to do 9.1.6 was a big reason for wanting to test out the RMC-1, and I had to know how it would compare to my memory of how the Marantz 8805 sounds. I came into buying the RMC-1 having owned 3 Marantz preamps prior, and a part of me expected to prefer the Marantz after opening the RMC-1. Despite the brief audio drop outs (currently only being experienced with DTS tracks), I do think that the RMC-1 is a fantastic unit.

It still would have been nice if it had thoroughly beta tested prior to release, as I have never heard another processor experience the distracting audio blips before.

I was not expecting to have a unit that has audio drop outs like I have experienced with the first firmware update, but the second updated beta firmware 1.1.4, released on 12/21/18 does appear to have improved things.

The Marantz preamplifiers did seem quite refined, with an absolutely fantastic GUI for setup. Even so, the potential of the RMC-1 is unmatched at this price point, especially with Dirac waiting in the wings, along with the expansion cards.

I am eager for the next firmware update, in the hope that the audio blips in DTS can be eliminated.
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post #283 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a2k2000 View Post
I had a question regarding the resolution of the RMC-1 meaning the DAC's are capable of handling 192KHz but many processors downsample the incoming signal to 48Khz for audio postprocessing such as DIRAC. Can anyone confirm.

The reason this is important to me is I use a Bryston SP3 currently for both music and movie needs and listen to a lot of high resolution content. Unfortunately the successor to the SP3 the SP4 has the above said limitation where it not only digitises all incoming input but also downsamples them to 48Khz for the processor to apply post processing.

I believe their current communication is that the Dirac system will sample at 96khz.
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post #284 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deewan View Post
@Archaea

1) Emotiva stated they honestly did not experience any of the issues that are being found with the RMC. I tend to believe people, but that communication is hard to swallow. It wasn't as if people had to search for these issues or were only experienced with odd equipment setups. Oppo players, Apple TV's and cable boxes are having a lot of issues with the RMC, not some knockoff video card from an unheard of computer company. The issues are point blank in your face the moment you begin using the machine. Not sure who they had test it in house, or if they had beta testers, but both need to be rethought before being used again. I've yet to see anyone be able to watch a full movie without audio issues with firmware 1.0 that was released with the unit, so how did they successfully pass testing?!?!

2) I was in the first wave of buyers so when I made my purchase nobody knew the extend of the issues. I expected a few hiccups, but not to this extent. If I had known, I would have waited and weighed my other options. Maybe someone from the second wave can explain, but I cannot. One thought, maybe the second wave buyers don't fully understand how troublesome the issues were and maybe they just don't care if the issues exist. Everyone has difference standards.

I don't believe Emotiva (Jade Design) as a company is hurting for money based on sales of other products and their continued development. They have had fewer sales then they have in the past so it doesn't appear they are trying to find money in a hurry (outside of this RMC preorder mess). The RMC project I am sure was a money pit for years and there may have been some accounting reasons they needed some cash before the end of 2018 within that segment. But overall I don't think Emotiva is hurting. A lot of their other products sell out regularly. I'm guessing the release of the RMC was to ensure they didn't miss another deadline, another calendar year didn't come and go without the promised RMC and perhaps to get out in front of announcements from Monoprice on their 16 channel processor. But even that product doesn't contain everything the RMC does and is ~6 months away.
I know this is going to come across the wrong way but we tried to warn you on the anticipation thread. You and I even got into a discussion about it...they do this every time...the writing was on the wall with the continuous delays. I honestly don't want any AVS member to run into product issue but EMO has a long history of doing this...why would this time be any different? That is why several of us were trying to warn people to be careful and not to act as beta tester for Emotiva and let the reviews come in before making a purchase decision. I hope they fix the issues on the RMC 1 and I also hope AVS members don't head into their next release and expect a polished product out of the gate as history shows that will not happen
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post #285 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 09:01 AM
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I know this is going to come across the wrong way but we tried to warn you on the anticipation thread. You and I even got into a discussion about it...they do this every time...the writing was on the wall with the continuous delays. I honestly don't want any AVS member to run into product issue but EMO has a long history of doing this...why would this time be any different? That is why several of us were trying to warn people to be careful and not to act as beta tester for Emotiva and let the reviews come in before making a purchase decision. I hope they fix the issues on the RMC 1 and I also hope AVS members don't head into their next release and expect a polished product out of the gate as history shows that will not happen
And in that thread I explained the difference of severity to issues, but I don't think you ever understood that. The past releases of their processor had issues, but they were not so blatantly obvious nor did they render the processor nearly useless. I recall listing off the XMC issues I experienced in the anticipation thread, none of which did I deem on the same level as many of the multiple issues with the RMC. I can handle things like a half second delay in audio at the start of a track, no Dirac for the first few months or slow menus or words spelled wrong. None of those are earth shattering to me. I was still able use the XMC to watch full movies and never feared the XMC would damage any of my equipment. All issues with the XMC where things I felt could have been missed during unit and even small batch beta testing. But with the RMC on day one:
  • Dolby and DTS soundtracks suffered repeatable audio drops, pops and clicks no matter the source device. Pops were at same volume levels as the audio and could cause speaker damage.
  • Digital audio signals caused audio freezes and a loud buzzing sound, requiring a full reboot to correct issue.
  • hdmi sync issues (loss of either audio or video) when switching inputs.
  • constant hum when using balanced input on reference stereo mode - RMC will lock up requiring a full reboot.
  • During cold restart, RMC will freeze and require a full reboot. In other words you can't use the Video on Standby power mode.
  • RMC cycles through audio playback modes when fed a PCM signal.
  • RMC may choose reference stereo mode when fed surround format.

I don't expect a perfectly working product when I purchase a first run processor for Emotiva. Neither the XMC, RMC, UMC200, UMC700 were perfect at the time of their release. I do expect a processor be able to turn on and off and be able to work with some fairly popular source equipment and popular audio formats upon release. The XMC was able to turn on and off and I was able to watch entire movies without fear of damaging my speakers or having to do a full system reboot in the middle of a song or movie.

If you feel the issues with the XMC and RMC as on similar levels that's perfectly fine and your opinion. My opinion is a release with some quirks is different than a release that prevents users from watching a movie without a full system reboot or fear of equipment damage. We can both be right with our opinion.

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post #286 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 10:28 AM
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monolith has RMC-1 alternative with Dirac ..very interesting
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2
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post #287 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 10:57 AM
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monolith has RMC-1 alternative with Dirac ..very interesting
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2
Based on discussion in the HTP-116 thread, it won't be shipping for ~6 months. It appears to be an ATI/Datasat (ATI now owns Datasat) product which would make sense since the Monolith amps are made by ATI. Assuming they haven't skimped on anything important to keep costs down, it should be an excellent option assuming it actually materializes. ATI had announced a similar product, but word is that they have decided not to ship it; the HTP-116 may or may not be why.
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post #288 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by hifikid80 View Post
monolith has RMC-1 alternative with Dirac ..very interesting
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2
I'd also add this is more of an alternative for the RMC-2, not the RMC-1, based on limited channel count and future expansion. However, it does look like a solid option if you do not need more than 16 channels or future expansion.

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post #289 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 03:16 PM
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How many here are using or planning to use 16 channels soon, and need more? Curious how demand for the RMC-1, RMC-2, and competition will play out...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #290 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifikid80 View Post
monolith has RMC-1 alternative with Dirac ..very interesting
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

But its so ugly.
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post #291 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 05:55 PM
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But its so ugly.
Perhaps. Then again it may actually work so who cares?

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post #292 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
How many here are using or planning to use 16 channels soon, and need more? Curious how demand for the RMC-1, RMC-2, and competition will play out...
My theater is setup for 9.X.6 so I'm definitely interested. I'm also more interested in the RMC-2 vs the RMC-1.

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post #293 of 880 Old 01-07-2019, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by deewan View Post
The XMC was able to turn on and off and I was able to watch entire movies without fear of damaging my speakers or having to do a full system reboot in the middle of a song or movie.

.
Wow! Sign me up. Where do I buy one of these?!?
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post #294 of 880 Old 01-08-2019, 01:22 AM
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But its so ugly.
case might be ugly but the screen is gold and it makes it feel premium like a 15k processor.
with 6-8 months more, they could potentially redesign the case, who knows depends whether they care about early comments of its processor launch.
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post #295 of 880 Old 01-08-2019, 01:35 AM
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Just ...WOW.


I can't imagine how happy I'd be to purchase a processor only for Dirac and 16 channels and it not being able to do either .. nor being a guarantee that it ever would/could. Shame on these guys.
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post #296 of 880 Old 01-08-2019, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
Perhaps. Then again it may actually work so who cares?

Such a low blow... well maybe not. =)


I didn't realize it was being sourced from ATI, if its high quality it could be a winner!
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post #297 of 880 Old 01-08-2019, 04:52 PM
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Sorry for your troubles sincerly

First off to be clear I do not have a dog in this fight.

On the one hand an american company making and distributing products is a really great thing. I have been through many receivers (No processors as of yet) but to think that you have spent a considerable amount of money for something that simply does not provide trouble free basic usage is a bitter pill to have to swallow. I can understand that if some weird doo-dad with some funky connection with some outdated logic would not work with this pre-pro that might be understood. But to think that you can't get through a simple movie or an album without chirps and audio drop-outs has got to be immensely frustrating. I, like many, find it a bit hard to believe that some of these very basic operational issues were not known about prior to release. I know my set up is a bit of a pain in the a$$ to set up (connections due to component placement etc.). I would be more than angered if after going through all of the set-up required to have these kind of basic, fundamental, novel operational snags.

I do hope and believe they will be resolved in time but for those of you who have spent the money and the time to get this unit and hook it up I do feel bad for you. Especially if you do not have another working option like the unit the RMC-1 replaced. I would simply have to re-install my previous working unit and then think long and hard as to whether the RMC-1 would go back or if it would "Hibernate" until the ongoing issues were resolved.

To be clear I like Emotiva and am not casting stones at them. We all know they make some phenomenal products especially when the price equation is factored in. I just really do not like to see another problem plagued product pushed onto consumers. The negative publicity of failed launch dates and problem filled releases do more harm than they may understand.

I hope for all involved, consumers and the manufacturer, that this product lives up to its full potential. Fingers crossed that it will and soon for all of you.

Best of luck to each of you.
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post #298 of 880 Old 01-10-2019, 01:36 PM
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Interview with Dan

A recent interview with Dan at CES 2019 regarding the RMC line


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Last edited by Troy0004; 01-10-2019 at 01:42 PM.
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post #299 of 880 Old 01-10-2019, 02:28 PM
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Newb question, the rmc-2 is 9.1.6, so what would people do for 2 subwoofers?


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post #300 of 880 Old 01-10-2019, 02:55 PM
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Depends on where your subs are located. If they are right next to each other get a splitter cable. If they are not and have a delay/phase adjustment, use that. If none of those are options get an external DSP like the MiniDSP that will allow you to set the delays on each channel independently.
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