The *Official* Emotiva RMC-1 owners thread - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 1010 Old 03-31-2019, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Seems like a very small price to pay.

I imagine if you paid $500 for the card you bought the RMC-1 for $3k. So if you returned and bought a HTP-1, you end up spending $4500 vs $3500 for the RMC-1. Is that about right? But you should be able to resell it for ~$4k based on what I've seen in the classifieds and on ebay. No? Even if you sold at as low as $3500 you would break even.

I wouldn’t want to resell this thing and push the problems off to someone else, I have some standards myself. . However the thought did cross my mind. But if Emotiva would give the card back, I’d send it back and then sell the card and be done with this and look for something else.
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post #512 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by deewan View Post
No.



  • Audio dropouts every 7-10 minutes with DTS soundtracks and dropouts every 40-50 minutes with Dolby soundtracks
  • Difficulty locking onto audio from a TV box. Once locked on, you may lose audio by switching channels or pausing content.
  • Audio dropouts from your cable box if you don't change channels or pause content every ~40 minutes.
  • RMC fails to lock onto a hdmi input when switching from one input to another. Sometimes you will get both audio and video. sometimes just audio, sometimes just video. I have a JVC projector and due to JVC's very robust but also lengthy hdmi sync times, I often get nothing but a blue screen. I'm guessing this is because the JVC is trying to confirm hdmi sync while the RMC is taking time switching from one input to the next and not sending a hdmi signal. That in turn causes the JVC to think there is no hdmi signal and will default to a blue screen.
  • When switching inputs due to a failed hdmi sync, if I use the knob on the front of the RMC or the RMC remote, the OLED on the RMC quickly displays the newly selected input name. HOWEVER, if I use my Harmony remote and the macro it uses, the RMC always would display the newly selected input on the left OLED and would continue to the the previous input on the right OLED, sometimes for up to 20 seconds.
    https://youtu.be/SjhIhG2LrEM
  • When exiting the levels submenu under Speaker Presets, the RMC outputs a surround sound mix regardless of the number of channels that preset has. For example, if I adjust the levels in my 2.1 Speaker Preset and exit out, this is the sound I hear...
  • When loading your user presets there is no progress bar to let you know the RMC is loading your settings.
  • Sluggish response times.
    https://youtu.be/cTOLKzcRx4Y

There are more, smaller issues, but the above listed issues are what I believe is preventing me from enjoying the use of my RMC. All these issues have been reported to Emotiva and I've been told they are working on a resolution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzjxBiGC8Kk











I am not having the dropout issues at all. Or many of the other items you have listed. Perhaps I am just lucky. I do get an issue with the unit acting flaky when switching inputs. This occurs if I have been on one input for several hours and then switch to another input (happened yesterday after binge watching Hanna). Or Sometimes when I fire on the unit the next day after being on one source for several hours the day before. A power cycle fixes it but certainly aggravating.

I keep all of my sources at their max resolution. At first the unit had issues with SD video out of my Direct TV box. (as the RMC-1 does not scale).
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post #513 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 06:31 AM
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How long does a reboot take?
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post #514 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 06:44 AM
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Firmware update 4.1 fixed everything in the Emotiva RMC-1 !!!!!!




Includes fully working Dirac Live as well!!!!





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post #515 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 07:24 AM
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I wonder if Dirac will even partner with them. Surely they must have standards for the hosting product to meet.

I saw today emotiva released a subwoofer named for a dog. They said with much pomp and circumstance that they’ve determined the weak point in home theater. They should look internally first before surveying the industry. When the flagship head unit won’t sync to anything and therefore produces no audio or video I would say that’s the weak point in the system and you should start there. When the flagship can’t play dsd files without blowing stuff up...all seems obvious to me.
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post #516 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 07:27 AM
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Who’s gonna be first to get one of these? Let the BASS flow ..



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #517 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austin_avp View Post
I wonder if Dirac will even partner with them. Surely they must have standards for the hosting product to meet.

I saw today emotiva released a subwoofer named for a dog. They said with much pomp and circumstance that they’ve determined the weak point in home theater. They should look internally first before surveying the industry. When the flagship head unit won’t sync to anything and therefore produces no audio or video I would say that’s the weak point in the system and you should start there. When the flagship can’t play dsd files without blowing stuff up...all seems obvious to me.

Make sure you try firmware 4.1.
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post #518 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 07:29 AM
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Spoiler!



Probably be released before a properly working RMC-1.
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post #519 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 07:29 AM
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Who’s gonna be first to get one of these? Let the BASS flow ..
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Didn't they already do their Aprils Fools joke?




AKA the RMC-1....





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post #520 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerard1meehan View Post
I am not having the dropout issues at all. Or many of the other items you have listed. Perhaps I am just lucky. I do get an issue with the unit acting flaky when switching inputs. This occurs if I have been on one input for several hours and then switch to another input (happened yesterday after binge watching Hanna). Or Sometimes when I fire on the unit the next day after being on one source for several hours the day before. A power cycle fixes it but certainly aggravating.

I keep all of my sources at their max resolution. At first the unit had issues with SD video out of my Direct TV box. (as the RMC-1 does not scale).
Hi

Just wondering.....when it is working what do people think of the sound, the decoding etc etc? Im trying to see if we can look through the immediate bugs ie assuming all of them are ironed out.....is there a decoding diamond in there somewhere?

Regards

Jim
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post #521 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerard1meehan View Post
I am not having the dropout issues at all. Or many of the other items you have listed. Perhaps I am just lucky. I do get an issue with the unit acting flaky when switching inputs. This occurs if I have been on one input for several hours and then switch to another input (happened yesterday after binge watching Hanna). Or Sometimes when I fire on the unit the next day after being on one source for several hours the day before. A power cycle fixes it but certainly aggravating.

I keep all of my sources at their max resolution. At first the unit had issues with SD video out of my Direct TV box. (as the RMC-1 does not scale).
What is your power on sequence? I've recently found that if I follow the sequence below my audio is fine, but video is a mess.
  1. Power on display device. Wait for it to boot.
  2. Turn on RMC. Wait for it to boot.
  3. Power on source device. Wait for it to boot.
  4. Switch from and back to your source device hdmi input on your RMC. In other words, if you are planning to watch your Oppo on hdmi input 1, switch to hdmi input 2, wait for hdmi sync, then switch back to input 1. Do this regardless if your RMC has a hdmi lock already, it seems to refresh the lock and help a bit in future steps.
  5. Begin navigating through the Oppo menu. I still lose video sync several times while using my Oppo and trying to get to the movie itself. Each time I would lose video sync, I would switch to another hdmi input and then back to the Oppo. One example: While going from the Oppo main menu to the disc menu, I got the blue screen and had to switch hdmi inputs to get back to the disc menu. Once I started playing the movie I got a blue screen, so I had to pause the movie and flip inputs to get video back. There were a few instances that even with flipping inputs I would then lose both audio and video from my main source and I would be forced to start the process over to get hdmi lock. But after all that, once I was able to get audio and video and the movie playing, no issues.

One such example that results in me losing both audio and video before making it to the movie.

I think what this points to is a very weak hdmi and EDID connection which confuses and possible bogs down the RMC at times. I'm guessing here, but perhaps my JVC's longer than most hdmi sync process really throws a wrench in the gears and the RMC begins to studder (for lack of a better phrase) when all devices are powered on in a short span. Maybe when I turn on the projector first in my system, then the RMC, it has an easier time talking... and only to the JVC. then I turn on the Oppo, and it has an easier time talking only to the Oppo after the JVC communication is established. I'm no expert when these syncs happen or how. But I can get through a Dolby movie now without audio issues. But the video sync is a PITA. I plan to test DTS tonight.

My only other thought is I have a second hardware failure with my hdmi board.

The Other Theater (most recent build)
Old Woods Remodel
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Marantz 8805 (Emotiva RMC in a box) | JVC X790R | Emotiva XPA-5 | Emotiva XPA 4-3s | Oppo 203 | DIYSG 1099 | DIYSG Volt 8 | DIYSG Volt 6 | SVS PC-4000 | Seymour UF 132"
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post #522 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim80z View Post
Hi

Just wondering.....when it is working what do people think of the sound, the decoding etc etc? Im trying to see if we can look through the immediate bugs ie assuming all of them are ironed out.....is there a decoding diamond in there somewhere?
My two cents - If you take away the audio dropouts I experience, the RMC sounds amazing. It absolutely blows the Marantz 7704 I have/had out of the water. I realize they are are different price points, but the difference is night and day. Not a small improvement, a large one. I also say this without any sort of RoomEQ (Dirac) installed yet on the RMC.

There are other benefits to the Marantz, like the faster switching and user interface. But from an audio only standpoint, the RMC is the clear winner and is currently my gold standard (when it works).

The Other Theater (most recent build)
Old Woods Remodel
Old Wood Theater (first build)
Marantz 8805 (Emotiva RMC in a box) | JVC X790R | Emotiva XPA-5 | Emotiva XPA 4-3s | Oppo 203 | DIYSG 1099 | DIYSG Volt 8 | DIYSG Volt 6 | SVS PC-4000 | Seymour UF 132"
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post #523 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
How long does a reboot take?
about 2 min for a full power on off
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post #524 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Firmware update 4.1 fixed everything in the Emotiva RMC-1 !!!!!!




Includes fully working Dirac Live as well!!!!




where do we get 4.1 I do not see it on the product page
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post #525 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 08:32 AM
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where do we get 4.1 I do not see it on the product page

You have to e-mail them asking for the April 1st Firmware that fixes everything on the RMC-1, AKA the 4.1 Firmware.




Make sure you mention you want the one that fixes everything!!!!














P.S.




It is a joke for April Fools day.


The RMC-1 was the real joke. And there is no Firmware 4.1 (April 1st)
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post #526 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deewan View Post
What is your power on sequence? I've recently found that if I follow the sequence below my audio is fine, but video is a mess.
  1. Power on display device. Wait for it to boot.
  2. Turn on RMC. Wait for it to boot.
  3. Power on source device. Wait for it to boot.
  4. Switch from and back to your source device hdmi input on your RMC. In other words, if you are planning to watch your Oppo on hdmi input 1, switch to hdmi input 2, wait for hdmi sync, then switch back to input 1. Do this regardless if your RMC has a hdmi lock already, it seems to refresh the lock and help a bit in future steps.
  5. Begin navigating through the Oppo menu. I still lose video sync several times while using my Oppo and trying to get to the movie itself. Each time I would lose video sync, I would switch to another hdmi input and then back to the Oppo. One example: While going from the Oppo main menu to the disc menu, I got the blue screen and had to switch hdmi inputs to get back to the disc menu. Once I started playing the movie I got a blue screen, so I had to pause the movie and flip inputs to get video back. There were a few instances that even with flipping inputs I would then lose both audio and video from my main source and I would be forced to start the process over to get hdmi lock. But after all that, once I was able to get audio and video and the movie playing, no issues.

One such example that results in me losing both audio and video before making it to the movie.
https://youtu.be/Zrv9xRo_FMM

I think what this points to is a very weak hdmi and EDID connection which confuses and possible bogs down the RMC at times. I'm guessing here, but perhaps my JVC's longer than most hdmi sync process really throws a wrench in the gears and the RMC begins to studder (for lack of a better phrase) when all devices are powered on in a short span. Maybe when I turn on the projector first in my system, then the RMC, it has an easier time talking... and only to the JVC. then I turn on the Oppo, and it has an easier time talking only to the Oppo after the JVC communication is established. I'm no expert when these syncs happen or how. But I can get through a Dolby movie now without audio issues. But the video sync is a PITA. I plan to test DTS tonight.

My only other thought is I have a second hardware failure with my hdmi board.
My Sony ubp 1000es and OPPO 103 are always powered on in standby mode, as is my direct TV box.

My projector Sony 695 es is in standby as well.

But when when I power on my RMC via my tablet (remote hardwired to back of the unit) It turns on the projector launches the RMC, and zone 2. The triggers turn on my amps and also a power bar that feeds my Fire-stick, Chromcast, and Phono preamp. That power-bar also fires up a HD Fury Vertex I have plugged into the 2nd HDMI out as I use that too downscale and feed to a HDMI splitter for other monitors in the house. It also triggers a HDMI audio inserter that puts the 2 channel zone 2 feed into prior to the HDMI splitter.

So as you see a lot going on, and not running into HDMI Handshake issues.
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post #527 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim80z View Post
Hi

Just wondering.....when it is working what do people think of the sound, the decoding etc etc? Im trying to see if we can look through the immediate bugs ie assuming all of them are ironed out.....is there a decoding diamond in there somewhere?
I am very happy with the sound. I went form an Anthem D2v3D to this and I listen to a significant amount of analog. Even without room correction this unit sounds better than the Anthem.
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post #528 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
You have to e-mail them asking for the April 1st Firmware that fixes everything on the RMC-1, AKA the 4.1 Firmware.




Make sure you mention you want the one that fixes everything!!!!














P.S.




It is a joke for April Fools day.


The RMC-1 was the real joke. And there is no Firmware 4.1 (April 1st)
Oh, well. There is always April 1st 2020...

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post #529 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deewan View Post
My two cents - If you take away the audio dropouts I experience, the RMC sounds amazing. It absolutely blows the Marantz 7704 I have/had out of the water. I realize they are are different price points, but the difference is night and day. Not a small improvement, a large one. I also say this without any sort of RoomEQ (Dirac) installed yet on the RMC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerard1meehan View Post
I am very happy with the sound. I went form an Anthem D2v3D to this and I listen to a significant amount of analog. Even without room correction this unit sounds better than the Anthem.
That is good info regarding your impressions of the SQ! I've heard the RMC-1 several times, but unfortunately only through Emotiva's speakers & subs. No offense to owners of their speakers/subs. They are great values, not the greatest speakers IMO. In these makeshift demo environments REQ would as well.
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How long does a reboot take?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerard1meehan View Post
about 2 min for a full power on off
I'm surprised a reboot takes so long. Hopefully, they will get someone to optimize their OS once all of these deficiencies get ironed out.
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post #530 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 11:26 AM
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I am very happy with the sound. I went form an Anthem D2v3D to this and I listen to a significant amount of analog. Even without room correction this unit sounds better than the Anthem.

An Anthem D2v3D is very very old... I'm thinking like 2008. it's kind of funny they still sell it and have the balls to ask 9500 for it. It has 7 Svideo inputs... and it's for sale for 9500 bucks... today! To compare the DSPs in that thing to what has been made in the last few years... it seems logical to expect that just about anything made recently will sound better.
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post #531 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerard1meehan View Post
My Sony ubp 1000es and OPPO 103 are always powered on in standby mode, as is my direct TV box.

My projector Sony 695 es is in standby as well.

But when when I power on my RMC via my tablet (remote hardwired to back of the unit) It turns on the projector launches the RMC, and zone 2. The triggers turn on my amps and also a power bar that feeds my Fire-stick, Chromcast, and Phono preamp. That power-bar also fires up a HD Fury Vertex I have plugged into the 2nd HDMI out as I use that too downscale and feed to a HDMI splitter for other monitors in the house. It also triggers a HDMI audio inserter that puts the 2 channel zone 2 feed into prior to the HDMI splitter.

So as you see a lot going on, and not running into HDMI Handshake issues.

Anything at this level should not have any HDMI issues. You should be able to switch inputs all day long, and not worry about power up sequence, etc... it should always work. The fact that people are investing so much time into finding the secret sauce says a lot... it shouldn't be that difficult.

On the emotiva forum, the die-hards defend it and say that's how HDMI works. Just have a look at another AVR or processor that has been out for so long and see how many problems they have switching sources. It's not excusable.

Reminds of the tesla fan boys trying to explain why the 400% panel gap variations and shoving crap lying around on the shop floor into body panels to get rid of squeaks... as "normal"
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post #532 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 11:51 AM
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Anything at this level should not have any HDMI issues. You should be able to switch inputs all day long, and not worry about power up sequence, etc... it should always work. The fact that people are investing so much time into finding the secret sauce says a lot... it shouldn't be that difficult.

On the emotiva forum, the die-hards defend it and say that's how HDMI works. Just have a look at another AVR or processor that has been out for so long and see how many problems they have switching sources. It's not excusable.

Reminds of the tesla fan boys trying to explain why the 400% panel gap variations and shoving crap lying around on the shop floor into body panels to get rid of squeaks... as "normal"
Fortunately I'm not having the HDMI issues others seem to have. Are you having issues with your RMC-1 and it's HDMI inputs?
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post #533 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 11:52 AM
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An Anthem D2v3D is very very old... I'm thinking like 2008... it seems logical to expect that just about anything made recently will sound better.

Leaving aside newer surround codecs, I'm not so sure about that.

I don't believe there have been significant advances in the analog stage circuit design that plays a large part in intrinsic SQ, and A/D/A conversion has been transparent since long before that.
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post #534 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 01:06 PM
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Sq is subjective. Even a louder signal that’s jotnornsluzed sounds “better” even if there’s a higher amount of noise to lost. Measure SNR and other analog parameters. I find it interesting that most prepros publish some type of SNR spec but not this one. Or just wait until someone dies a bench review. I think we will find it’s not better.
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post #535 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by austin_avp View Post
Sq is subjective. Even a louder signal that’s jotnornsluzed sounds “better” even if there’s a higher amount of noise to lost. Measure SNR and other analog parameters. I find it interesting that most prepros publish some type of SNR spec but not this one. Or just wait until someone dies a bench review. I think we will find it’s not better.
One of the things I love about the RMC is the lower noise floor. With my Marantz in a nearly dead silent room there was an audible hiss form my amps and high efficiency speakers. It was distracting to me until I starting playing content then it wasn't audible. But with the RMC, it's quite. No hiss. So when doing some critical 2-channel listening everything seems a little more distinct and clear.

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Marantz 8805 (Emotiva RMC in a box) | JVC X790R | Emotiva XPA-5 | Emotiva XPA 4-3s | Oppo 203 | DIYSG 1099 | DIYSG Volt 8 | DIYSG Volt 6 | SVS PC-4000 | Seymour UF 132"
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post #536 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gerard1meehan View Post
Fortunately I'm not having the HDMI issues others seem to have. Are you having issues with your RMC-1 and it's HDMI inputs?
It’s very common it seems. Switching to and from sources or booting up sometimes there’s no sync or audio only. Seems to be happening to a lot of people.
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post #537 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by deewan View Post
One of the things I love about the RMC is the lower noise floor. With my Marantz in a nearly dead silent room there was an audible hiss form my amps and high efficiency speakers. It was distracting to me until I starting playing content then it wasn't audible. But with the RMC, it's quite. No hiss. So when doing some critical 2-channel listening everything seems a little more distinct and clear.
Well,,let’s what the bench results show. Only way to see. In my previous configuration I had subs in slave mode and this caused a hum. Easy to say it’s the prepro, but it was not

I moved from a denon avp-a1hdci which has been reviewed many times to reveal noise characteristics that were so good the reviewers were concerned the equipment wasn’t hooked up.
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post #538 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Leaving aside newer surround codecs, I'm not so sure about that.

I don't believe there have been significant advances in the analog stage circuit design that plays a large part in intrinsic SQ, and A/D/A conversion has been transparent since long before that.

Just look at how the specs of consumer DACs have progressed in the past few years. Compare the Sabre pro es 9038 to something from 2008... there has been a progression there. You can even compare the two Oppo headphones dacs side to side and hear it, and those are just one generation apart.


Sorry, but the fact that anthem still sells this thing for 9500 bucks...today... can’t get over that. They lose all credibility with me because of that. Who are they fooling? Is anyone really going to spend 9500 on a unit with 7 svideo inputs in 2019? Haha.
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post #539 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 07:14 PM
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Compare the Sabre pro es 9038 to something from 2008... there has been a progression there.
In something besides S/N?

My room's background noise level is 35dB, so if my max SPL 115dB, I only only need to net 80DB S/N.

Add 20dB processing overhead and a DAC with 100dB S/N is plenty.


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You can even compare the two Oppo headphones dacs side to side and hear it, and those are just one generation apart.

Was there an audible difference besides noise?

Noah
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post #540 of 1010 Old 04-01-2019, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
In something besides S/N?

My room's background noise level is 35dB, so if my max SPL 115dB, I only only need to net 80DB S/N.

Add 20dB processing overhead and a DAC with 100dB S/N is plenty.


Not sure about you, but don’t routinely listen at 115dB SPL.



Was there an audible difference besides noise?
Yes, I owned both for a while and it was noticeable even at moderate levels. I use a MZ2 tube amp with it, young need an amp better than the one built in to hear it. I eventually also added a dedicated desktop dac for non portable listening too.
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