The *Official* Emotiva RMC-1 owners thread - Page 20 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #571 of 1091 Old 04-04-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gerard1meehan View Post
The LPCM Option
If you set the Blu-ray Disc player to output audio as PCM, the player will perform the audio decoding of all Dolby/Dolby TrueHD and DTS/DTS-HD Master Audio related soundtracks internally and send the decoded audio signal in uncompressed form to your home theater receiver. As a result, your home theater receiver will not have to perform any additional audio decoding before the audio is sent through the amplifier section and the speakers. With this option, the home theater receiver will display the term "PCM" or "LPCM" on its front panel display.

The Bitstream Option
If you select Bitstream as the HDMI audio output setting for your Blu-ray player, the player will bypass its own internal Dolby and DTS audio decoders and send the undecoded signal to your HDMI-connected home theater receiver. The home theater receiver will do all the audio decoding of the incoming signal. As a result, the receiver will display Dolby, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc...on its front panel display depending on which type of bitstream signal is being decoded.
With the LPCM option the player is stripping out all the metadata used for the objects in immersive sound. In other words you are turning Atmos/DTS:X into basic 7.1 audio.
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post #572 of 1091 Old 04-04-2019, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by deewan View Post
Whenever I load a new firmware I unplug all my source and display devices from hdmi and power connections. This forces a new EDID connection and why I have steps 2 and 8 in the FW Load Process listed above.

I also mentioned (granted in a long post), that I've had the Oppo and movie steamer output both Bitstream and LPCM. No impact to audio issues.
Sorry about that. You took the time to lay that out. So this might sound nuts. But at this point you'll try anything.

Have you tried unplugging the HDMI for the projector an running a movie that has had a ton of dropouts for you and see what happens?
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post #573 of 1091 Old 04-04-2019, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
With the LPCM option the player is stripping out all the metadata used for the objects in immersive sound. In other words you are turning Atmos/DTS:X into basic 7.1 audio.
It was recommended to isolate a problem, not for everyday use
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post #574 of 1091 Old 04-04-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gerard1meehan View Post
Sorry about that. You took the time to lay that out. So this might sound nuts. But at this point you'll try anything.

Have you tried unplugging the HDMI for the projector an running a movie that has had a ton of dropouts for you and see what happens?
Yes, I tried that. The RMC will not play audio from an AV device connected via hdmi unless there is a display device connected and powered on.

So to eliminate the JVC projector as being the issue, I tested using a 1080p display with a shorter hdmi cable. I still had audio issues.

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post #575 of 1091 Old 04-04-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by deewan View Post
Yes, I tried that. The RMC will not play audio from an AV device connected via hdmi unless there is a display device connected and powered on.

So to eliminate the JVC projector as being the issue, I tested using a 1080p display with a shorter hdmi cable. I still had audio issues.
Ouch! I wonder if they just had a batch of bad DSP chips. I had bad DSP's on an anthem that would dropout like nuts out of the box and they had to replace the board. They had me trouble shoot it for way too long

And as for "The RMC will not play audio from an AV device connected via hdmi unless there is a display device connected and powered on."


I have my system on now playing a blu-ray with the projector off and HDMI 2 unplugged and the audio is playing??


Weird
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post #576 of 1091 Old 04-04-2019, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
There is quite a bit that we actually do know (interspersed throughout two other RMC-1 threads). Emotiva is the only vendor currently using the ARM coprocessor on the SHARC+ to run their OS. They do own their implementation (including the Atmos 9.1.6 decoding), not to say the development wasn't contracted… but they hold the bag.
Do you think they wrote their own operating system for the ARM or are just running some real-time Linux variant? If it's a Linux variant, then they are at the mercy of the scheduling algorithms therein, presuming that the OS scheduler actually schedules tasks for the DSP side of the chip -- which I don't know how that works. Certainly, though, chirping and drop-outs could be related to task scheduling hiccups and excaserbated by any code that can't complete within its quantum before it has to handle the next "packet" (in which case, I could see it outputting "zero-bit" "packets" to mute the output since it doesn't have anything better to emit).

That said, again, all speculation and I wish them the best of luck fixing it and hope you're right that they have access to all the code required to fix it (either directly or through 3rd party contractors who are hopefully responsive to their needs).
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post #577 of 1091 Old 04-04-2019, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by deewan View Post
This is going to be a bit of data dump, so I apologize ahead of time. though my testing I can confirm the audio and video issues are not due to source device... unless ALL my devices are bad devices.

FW Load Process (only need to perform once):

1. Reset all source devices to factory default settings. ("Auto" for almost all video and audio setting outputs)
2. Unplugged all source and display devices from their hdmi connections. Also unplug the devices from their electrical power
3. Turn on RMC reset to factory default settings.
4. Full reboot/power cycle on the RMC
5. Install/Reload FW 1.2
6. Turn on RMC with new firmware installed
7. Turn off the RMC and flip the rear power switch to "off"
8. While RMC was powered off, connect all hdmi sources. After hdmi connections are made, plug them into electrical power. PRO TIP: Only connect one display device. I used hdmi output 1 for my projector
9. Turned on the RMC
10. I waited ~3 minutes
11. Load user settings from USB
12. Turn RMC off

Process to turn system on:
1. Power on display device. Wait for it to boot.
2. Turn on RMC. Wait for it to boot.
3. Power on source device. Wait for it to boot.
4. Begin using system.

Using that method I have encountered audio dropouts/pops/clicks while using the following devices:
  • Oppo 203 player (using both disc and network files)
  • AppleTV Gen 3
  • Cable TV box
  • Mede8der 6003DX movie streamer

I have encountered audio dropouts/pops/clicks while using the following sound formats:
  • DTS 5.1 (lossy)
  • DTS 7.1 HD
  • DTS:X
  • Dolby 2.0
  • Dolby 5.1
  • Dolby TrueHD
  • Dolby Atmos

The above tests were all done with all devices set to "Auto" or their default settings. I've also experience the same audio issues after loading user settings in the RMC, custom video output on the Oppo, LPCM and bitstream with the Oppo, LPCM and bitstream with the Mede8der, customer settings with the JVC.

My hdmi cables are all 4K certified. I've also tested with cheap hdmi cables as well as some higher boutique brands. No impact on the results. The only hdmi cables I have that are longer than 3ft is running from the RMC to the JVC projector.

Here is a video of some of the issues I have as of now. Source device is the Oppo. Video starts with the blue screen of death. If I switch hdmi inputs (from Oppo to ApplveTV) I get video back and the Oppo main menu is displayed. Once I select the BR disc option, I lose video. Without switching inputs this time I blindly navigate the disc to the top menu of the movie. No video on the screen, but audio from the disc is heard. I then blindly again select to play the movie. this time I have no video and the audio has been dropped completely. Oppo shows the movie time advancing but no video or audio.
https://youtu.be/Zrv9xRo_FMM

If there is a combination or setup you'd like me to test, please let me know.
When you get no video, take your tv remote and change the input to tv and then back again to hdmi.
I did that as a workaround and the video comes back everytime!
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post #578 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerard1meehan View Post
I am very curious to here from an Actual Owner of an RMC-1 about their sound dropout issues.

I get "this is a flagship" and it is not as plug and play as we would like. But there have to be some certain work arounds that will allow people to enjoy their pre/pro they way it is working now. Regardless if we should have to or not.

this 80% of the forum bitching about it, especially when you don't even own one is useless
I disagree, while the generalization is applicable to many 'bitch' threads, the RMC-1 commentary is unfortunately 100% valid.

I am a non-owner, however, have been in the planning and execution phases of constructing a dedicated theater room for about 9 months. My needs are 9.2.6, hence the RMC-1 has been of interest since the outset - I have to obtain a new processor within 60 days.

I have had several “flagship” processors – a string of Lexicons, Marantz AV8xxx, etc. and understand the complexity involved. NONE of those implementations involved the distress reported by RMC-1 owners.

I have been a long-time fan of Emotiva - I own an Emotiva amplifier purchased in 2009. I watched when they botched an earlier processor rollout...from a lucky timing standpoint I had just purchased a processor and I was quite glad to have missed that debacle. I will be needing additional amplification and have planned to purchase one of their XPA Gen-3 multi-channel amplifiers.

As a serious potential purchaser, I noted the CEDIA award, and the ramp-up to initial release of the RMC-1 thinking (clearly foolishly) that Emotiva would have learned from experience and not repeat with a flawed initial launch.

WRONG!!!
1) From following this thread and ones on the Emotiva Lounge, this appears to be an even worse launch.
2) The MAJORITY of users are NOT able to enjoy a full movie or music session without experiencing one of the various maladies that exist.
3) Emotiva is losing sales and it sounds like many who purchased are on the brink of returning their equipment for a refund.
4) I am dumbfounded that a company that has been around this long would repeat a blunder of this magnitude. It makes me wonder if they rushed the release due to financial issues – if so, the result is taking them into even worse territory. Reflecting on the how and why Emotiva is in this situation has given me pause regarding buying an amplifier from them.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. In my case I see actual and potential owners voicing an entirely unacceptable situation….the dearth of response from Emotiva is very disconcerting.

Wyatt
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post #579 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by wyliec2 View Post
I disagree, while the generalization is applicable to many 'bitch' threads, the RMC-1 commentary is unfortunately 100% valid.

I am a non-owner, however, have been in the planning and execution phases of constructing a dedicated theater room for about 9 months. My needs are 9.2.6, hence the RMC-1 has been of interest since the outset - I have to obtain a new processor within 60 days.

I have had several “flagship” processors – a string of Lexicons, Marantz AV8xxx, etc. and understand the complexity involved. NONE of those implementations involved the distress reported by RMC-1 owners.

I have been a long-time fan of Emotiva - I own an Emotiva amplifier purchased in 2009. I watched when they botched an earlier processor rollout...from a lucky timing standpoint I had just purchased a processor and I was quite glad to have missed that debacle. I will be needing additional amplification and have planned to purchase one of their XPA Gen-3 multi-channel amplifiers.

As a serious potential purchaser, I noted the CEDIA award, and the ramp-up to initial release of the RMC-1 thinking (clearly foolishly) that Emotiva would have learned from experience and not repeat with a flawed initial launch.

WRONG!!!
1) From following this thread and ones on the Emotiva Lounge, this appears to be an even worse launch.
2) The MAJORITY of users are NOT able to enjoy a full movie or music session without experiencing one of the various maladies that exist.
3) Emotiva is losing sales and it sounds like many who purchased are on the brink of returning their equipment for a refund.
4) I am dumbfounded that a company that has been around this long would repeat a blunder of this magnitude. It makes me wonder if they rushed the release due to financial issues – if so, the result is taking them into even worse territory. Reflecting on the how and why Emotiva is in this situation has given me pause regarding buying an amplifier from them.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. In my case I see actual and potential owners voicing an entirely unacceptable situation….the dearth of response from Emotiva is very disconcerting.
Wyatt,

Thanks for filling me in on you perspective. It makes total sense to me. I have a dedicated built theater room and I understand all of the planning that goes into it that. You are choosing what will be the hart of the system for years to come, and this unit looks like a "sh1tshow".


On this thread I seem to a minority in the sense that my RMC-1 is not having issues. (I hope I did not jinx myself). I am curious if its because I am only running a 7.1 system at this time? When I completed my build out there wasn't even talk of Atmos.

I had some problems when I completed the project and was immensely helped by others on the owners thread for that Pre/Pro. That unit was chock full of Bugs too, mostly HDMI. I was hoping that we could help each other trouble shoot, and those with units working could test things for others. Or they could recreate the issues so we isolate it.

I have yet to contact Emotiva so I do not know how they interact with their customers. I will be hitting them up on one issue I had with a BluRay that had a DTS mono soundtrack where the internal decoder dropped the audio. I had to use LCPM to hear it. So I'll see how they behave.


Best of luck with your project!

G
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post #580 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 09:46 AM
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Sales Tax Using Discount Cards

Here in Washington State, Emotiva only needs to charge sales tax on discounted prices. Laws will vary by state so you may want to check with your own Department of Revenue. Here is the email response that I received from Washington...

Thank you for your email message dated February 13, 2019 regarding applying discounts to purchases. You wrote:

Emotiva, a direct to consumer electronics manufacturer/retailer, sold a piece of equipment that included a transferable discount voucher for the purchase of a newer model in the future. Sales tax was paid on the original item that included the voucher. Now if a Washington resident purchases the new model, can Emotiva deduct the discount and therefor charge Washington residents tax only on the new amount?

Please assume that Emotiva can't track these vouchers to verify that the original unit was purchased and sales tax applied in Washington.


When Emotiva sells a new unit they charge full price and refund


Response:

Yes. Bona fide discounts in the selling price of specific articles are deductible from the gross income received by the taxpayer granting the discount. Therefore, in the example cited above, you would subtract the discount from the selling price prior to calculating the sales tax. Where the discount voucher originated is not material. See Washington Administrative Code (WAC) 458-20-108.

If you have additional questions, please write again.

Sincerely,


Brian O

Tax Information Specialist | Washington State Department of Revenue | [email protected]
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post #581 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 09:51 AM
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Following from the Emotiva Lounge


"Hello All,

Sorry for being absent for a while. So many things going on, so little time.

I know everyone is anxious to get the latest code so let me give you guys a little recap of what has been going on.

Audio:
We have resolved DSD. We have worked out the mutes going into and out of DSD.
DTS. Turns out that was a real bear of a bug. The problem lies within the Analog Device chips, but we wrote a work a round for it since we have no access to the black box part of the chip.
The mute after a period of time. This again was a glitch in the black box part of the chip, but we figured out which buffer was filling up and have a fix for it.
Dolby Tops and Heights. Dolby dropped a bomb on us a few weeks back. We had to add the option for Tops and Heights, not just the Heights we had in there. This meant a rewrite of the menu system, as well as all the back end code for exceptions and such as well ask a ton of code for the DSP and FPGA.
Numerous other audio fixes for various PCM configurations and such.

Video.
This has been a roller coaster of a ride.
As it turns out HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 are not as backward compatible as they should be. The HDCP 2.2 code does not play well with older gear. After a boat load of internal work we finally had to go back to Panasonic directly on this and get them to write a fix for it. The fix they sent us did indeed fix 1.4 HDMI devices but completely screwed up 2.0 devices. So we have written our own code that will allow you to select 2.0 or 1.4 per input. That way if you run into a compatibility issue, you can go into the setup and lock a particular input to which ever format you want it to run in. As a side note, during our testing on this we hooked up competitors receivers (that were using the same Panasonic chips) to see how well they were handling this and to my surprise, the ones we tested just refuse to work on legacy gear AT ALL. While this does'nt help you guys, it at least goes to show we aren't alone in our struggle. Adding in the option for either 1.4 or 2.0 means a rewrite of the menu and the back end code for it as well as a lot of HDMI management handling. This is currently being tested and carefully examined. The potential for causing other issues a very high.

Another thing we ran into has to do with CEC. As most of you know the RMC-1 is the first product we have released that allows upstream CEC. That is to say, source selection, volume control and such from your source devices like an Apple TV. The reason we never did this before is simply because of potential interaction issues. Well we found a big one. If you have both an Apple TV 4K and an Invidia shield, the two fight each other for control and it basically causes everything to either slow way down or crash all together. Turn off CEC on either device and everything is happy. Again this doesn't solve your problems so we wrote a bit of code to make the two play nice with each other.

So where we are now is this. We are internally testing a variant of the code with all the audio fixes that has a planned release date in a few days if all goes well. This new code does not have the video fixes in it other then the CEC handling. The reason for this is because we need a little more time to make sure the HDMI is being handled properly and doesn't cause other issues. HDMI right now is a fine line between reliable and not, and any deviation from the line is a headache for you and us. I think you all know how I feel about HDMI in general so I won't say anything more.

Getting back on topic, if the new beta passes muster then we will release 1.3 next week and the current plan is to release 1.4 roughly a week later which will have the HDMI fixes in it. By releasing them individually there is a greater potential for success.

Best regards,

Lonnie"

Spoiler!
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post #582 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 10:37 AM
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Well that sounds hopeful.


I don't get this part though:


Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredandLovingIt View Post
"Dolby dropped a bomb on us a few weeks back. We had to add the option for Tops and Heights, not just the Heights we had in there...

Receivers have had both options for years, so what's he talking about?
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post #583 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 10:57 AM
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The *Official* Emotiva RMC-1 owners thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Well that sounds hopeful.


I don't get this part though:


Receivers have had both options for years, so what's he talking about?


As in FH+TM+RH or TF+TM+TR like my 8500H restricts?
Or, have they opened it up to say .... FH+TM+TR, which for some is a easier viable physical speaker layout in a 2 row HT



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post #584 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
As in FH+TM+RH or TF+TM+TR like my 8500H restricts?
Or, have they opened it up to say .... FH+TM+TR, which for some is a easier viable physical speaker layout in a 2 row HT

Ah, right.

I thought that choice restriction was due to the mfgr's implementations, not Dolby's, but I could be mistaken.

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post #585 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 11:30 AM
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Would be odd if it was a Dolby restriction, since their own demo disc has a 9.1.6 speaker ID track that pings TF+TM+TR.

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post #586 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 11:33 AM
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Would be odd if it was a Dolby restriction, since their own demo disc has a 9.1.6 speaker ID track that pings TF+TM+TR.
They are talking about the use of "Heights" and "ceiling" speakers at the same time.

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post #587 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
They are talking about the use of "Heights" and "ceiling" speakers at the same time.
The ability to use Heights & Tops at the same time has always been available in consumer Atmos gear. BTW, the rendering assumptions for all 5 overhead speaker pairs are on the same plane (i.e., they're all "ceiling" speakers). Same as the theatrical version of Atmos.

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post #588 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
The ability to use Heights & Tops at the same time has always been available in consumer Atmos gear. BTW, the rendering assumptions for all 5 overhead speaker pairs are on the same plane (i.e., they're all "ceiling" speakers). Same as the theatrical version of Atmos.
I agree. But it sounds Emotiva had no idea. LOL
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post #589 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Not throwing dollars and people won't help either.



Dan Laufman came onto AVS in 2017 lauding the power of the dual 5th-gen ADI SHARC+s and Panasonic HDMI chipsets (supposedly custom and exclusive). Things would be different this time because they had full control of the software not relying on any 3rd parties.

Sure, but let's not pretend any of Dan's time is going to help the engineering problems. That comment there shows how out of touch he is with software development. Modern software systems are complex and everything is built upon somebody else's stuff. It's not possible to have full control. I'm not sure whether it is ignorance or deception on his part. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and go with the former...



-tm
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post #590 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 07:08 PM
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^ The biggest issue with something like Emotiva's April Fool's "joke" is perception. While Dan obviously isn't working on the code, he shouldn't be doing anything that gives the perception that getting major issues with the new product aren't the number one priority and that they're taking it very seriously. Spending time on the "joke" while probably harmless in the grand scheme of things, only serves to pour fuel on an already raging fire.


I quickly read through Lonnie's message above and one thing that really stands out is his comments about HDCP and how other products they tried out for comparison allegedly have the same issues. First off, very few customers care what chipset is being used for this part of the processor. What they care about is selecting an input, seeing the correct video, and getting the correct audio. Had Emotiva obtained a Marantz AV8805, they would have found that it works great with pretty much ANY source. What they're doing with the menu choice will probably work, but it's a bandaid rather than a true solution. As a software developer, I also find the comments implying that reworking the menu system is a lot of work rather curious.



Like others posting in this thread, I was extremely excited about the potential of the RMC-1 when it was first announced. I held onto my Denon AVP-A1HDCI and delayed getting something that could handle 4K video hoping the RMC-1 would get released. I finally couldn't wait any longer and purchased a Marantz AV8805 early last year, which has performed flawlessly since day one. Since my purchase a LOT more time passed and the RMC-1 finally shipped. Even having been aware of how their previous pre-pro launches have gone, I've been astounded by how many issues the RMC-1 shipped with and how key features like Dirac still aren't available, though I do agree that basic functionality should be working before adding more complexity into the mix. But basic functionality should have been working on day one. I'm really glad I gave up waiting and went with the Marantz. If and when Emotiva gets the RMC-1 firmware fixed, I may consider switching, but I suspect the technology it has may be a bit long in the tooth by then. For those who bought RMC-1's, I sincerely hope that Emotiva comes through with fixes for the problems you're putting up with soon.
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post #591 of 1091 Old 04-05-2019, 09:14 PM
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I must say, the update is quite encouraging. I'm sure nothing is 100 percent, but the amount of detail going into Lonnie's post is reassuring. Sounds like they're well on their way. I was having massive doubts about considering Emotiva, at first, but after reading through other Dirac processor/AVR threads, I'm not quite so tough on Emotiva anymore. None are without flaws and all seem to have been going through growing pains. The bravest of us seem to have been experiencing those growing pains to the nth degree. Hopefully Emotiva will reward their efforts with another 40 percent discount card (which would be worth a significant amount in the marketplace).
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post #592 of 1091 Old 04-06-2019, 12:02 PM
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I must say, the update is quite encouraging. I'm sure nothing is 100 percent, but the amount of detail going into Lonnie's post is reassuring. Sounds like they're well on their way. I was having massive doubts about considering Emotiva, at first, but after reading through other Dirac processor/AVR threads, I'm not quite so tough on Emotiva anymore.
So I guess you fell for his "it's everyone else's fault" excuse for releasing one of the buggiest processors ever?

Wonder which chipmaker they're blaming for the "fully upgradable with new technologies" XMC-1 not having Atmos almost 5 years after it launched in consumer products.

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post #593 of 1091 Old 04-06-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by duckymomo View Post
So I guess you fell for his "it's everyone else's fault" excuse for releasing one of the buggiest processors ever?



Wonder which chipmaker they're blaming for the "fully upgradable" XMC-1 not having Atmos almost 5 years after it launched in consumer products.


Nope. Emotiva is at fault, no doubt. They should’ve released it as an RMC-1 “B”. Nonetheless, I’m optimistic much if not most of these problems will be solved relatively soon, based on Lonnie’s recent detailed posts.


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post #594 of 1091 Old 04-07-2019, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Well that sounds hopeful.


I don't get this part though:





Receivers have had both options for years, so what's he talking about?
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
As in FH+TM+RH or TF+TM+TR like my 8500H restricts?
Or, have they opened it up to say .... FH+TM+TR, which for some is a easier viable physical speaker layout in a 2 row HT



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Ah, right.

I thought that choice restriction was due to the mfgr's implementations, not Dolby's, but I could be mistaken.
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Would be odd if it was a Dolby restriction, since their own demo disc has a 9.1.6 speaker ID track that pings TF+TM+TR.
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
They are talking about the use of "Heights" and "ceiling" speakers at the same time.
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
The ability to use Heights & Tops at the same time has always been available in consumer Atmos gear. BTW, the rendering assumptions for all 5 overhead speaker pairs are on the same plane (i.e., they're all "ceiling" speakers). Same as the theatrical version of Atmos.
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
I agree. But it sounds Emotiva had no idea. LOL

From Lonnie at EMOTIVA, since I asked him about it before:


With the upcoming release of the new Dolby format there are basically three different types of "virtual" speakers to create objects in space. The first is reflective and these are what you see mounted on top of towers and point to the ceiling. These have a specific frequency response that kicks up signals above 7KHZ to help with localization. The next is Heights. These are mounted high up on the wall facing toward the center of the room. This is the preferred method from dolby and the meta data callouts go directly to these speakers. The third version is Tops which are ceiling mounted speakers pointing down. When using these the Dolby code splits the signal between the tops and the either the bed channels or reflective channels to acoustically make you believe there are height channels.

- AUDIO: (7.2.4 Atmos) EMOTIVA RMC-1 | McIntosh MC-8207 + CROWN XLS 2502, 1502 | KEF LS50, SVS Prime Elevations, RYTHMIK G25HP + L22
- VIDEO: SONY OLED 65A9G | Panasonic UB820 | 44TB Synology DS1815+ | Dune Solo 4K | XBOX ONE X SCORPIO | PS4 PRO | Apple TV 4K | HTPC/Gaming Rig (Ryzen 3700X, GIGABYTE X570 I AORUS PRO WIFI, 16GB, STRIX OC 1080TI, Auzen HDMI XFi)

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post #595 of 1091 Old 04-07-2019, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post
From Lonnie at EMOTIVA, since I asked him about it before:


With the upcoming release of the new Dolby format there are basically three different types of "virtual" speakers to create objects in space. The first is reflective and these are what you see mounted on top of towers and point to the ceiling. These have a specific frequency response that kicks up signals above 7KHZ to help with localization. The next is Heights. These are mounted high up on the wall facing toward the center of the room. This is the preferred method from dolby and the meta data callouts go directly to these speakers. The third version is Tops which are ceiling mounted speakers pointing down. When using these the Dolby code splits the signal between the tops and the either the bed channels or reflective channels to acoustically make you believe there are height channels.
You and/or Lonnie have Heights and Tops reversed.
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post #596 of 1091 Old 04-07-2019, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post
From Lonnie at EMOTIVA, since I asked him about it before:


With the upcoming release of the new Dolby format there are basically three different types of "virtual" speakers to create objects in space. The first is reflective and these are what you see mounted on top of towers and point to the ceiling. These have a specific frequency response that kicks up signals above 7KHZ to help with localization. The next is Heights. These are mounted high up on the wall facing toward the center of the room. This is the preferred method from dolby and the meta data callouts go directly to these speakers. The third version is Tops which are ceiling mounted speakers pointing down. When using these the Dolby code splits the signal between the tops and the either the bed channels or reflective channels to acoustically make you believe there are height channels.
You and/or Lonnie have Heights and Tops reversed.
Thanks for adding that info. I cut and pasted his reply, but his reply seems correct, and makes sense. Nonetheless, between what you, and Lonnie said, it should clarify a lot. There are three distinct speaker settings for Atmos, and the RMC handles them differently. Maybe Dirac correction plays a part.

- AUDIO: (7.2.4 Atmos) EMOTIVA RMC-1 | McIntosh MC-8207 + CROWN XLS 2502, 1502 | KEF LS50, SVS Prime Elevations, RYTHMIK G25HP + L22
- VIDEO: SONY OLED 65A9G | Panasonic UB820 | 44TB Synology DS1815+ | Dune Solo 4K | XBOX ONE X SCORPIO | PS4 PRO | Apple TV 4K | HTPC/Gaming Rig (Ryzen 3700X, GIGABYTE X570 I AORUS PRO WIFI, 16GB, STRIX OC 1080TI, Auzen HDMI XFi)
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post #597 of 1091 Old 04-07-2019, 08:11 AM
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What is important for me from rmc-1,its possible to have 15 discret chanels ,9.1.6 and all work perfectly samething when I buy my marantz sr8012,this receiver when is comming is complet new model 2018,when I strart whit my 2 xpa 3 gen3 power amplifier and 2 xpa 5 power amplifier ,I collect 11 chanels and I make calibration whit auddyssey and when I start this receiver whit my émotiva power amplifier and enr cable and oppo203,I NEVER HAVE PROBLEM IS RUNNING PERFECTLY WHIT ALL ÉQUIPMENT ,THAT NORMAL YOU PAY OVER 3000 DOLLARS US AND THE RMC-1 YOU PAY 5000 DOLLARS THAT NOT NORMAL.

before in my life I have denon prologic ,onkyo 906.onkyo 3030 and now marantz sr 8012 ,NEVER HAVE PROBLEM WHEN I START, IS NOT SAME WHIT RMC-1.


I AM SORRY BUT THE FAULT IS FROM ÉMOTIVA,YOU NOT TO SALE PROCESSOR WHIT YOU AHVE BIG PROBLEM FOR RUNNING NORMALLY AND YOU PAY 5000 DOLLARS US IN USA AND 6700 DOLLARS CAN WHIT EXCHANGE ,THIS IS NOT NORMAL .

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post #598 of 1091 Old 04-07-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post
From Lonnie at EMOTIVA, since I asked him about it before:

With the upcoming release of the new Dolby format there are basically three different types of "virtual" speakers to create objects in space. The first is reflective and these are what you see mounted on top of towers and point to the ceiling. These have a specific frequency response that kicks up signals above 7KHZ to help with localization. The next is Heights. These are mounted high up on the wall facing toward the center of the room. This is the preferred method from dolby and the meta data callouts go directly to these speakers. The third version is Tops which are ceiling mounted speakers pointing down. When using these the Dolby code splits the signal between the tops and the either the bed channels or reflective channels to acoustically make you believe there are height channels.
That's pretty confusing. The reality is much simpler. The home version of Atmos has 5 pairs of speaker locations overhead: Front Height, Top Front, Top Middle, Top Rear, Rear Height.

Real-world placement is flexible (ceiling or high up on walls), but the Atmos renderer assumes all 5 pairs are on the same plane (ceiling), evenly spaced apart, starting at the very front of your set-up, then 25% back, then 50% back, 75% back, and the last pair at the very back of your set-up.

So the only difference between Heights and Tops is where they are located front to back. Heights are at the very front and back; Tops are the middle 3 pairs. Nothing more complicated than that.
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There are three distinct speaker settings for Atmos, and the RMC handles them differently. Maybe Dirac correction plays a part.
With Dolby's upcoming height virtualizer, Atmos will become a 3-tiered experience: good (height virtualizer), better (upfiring modules), best (speakers above). That's a little different from what Lonnie is describing. Also, Dirac is room correction. It takes care of peaks & dips in the frequency response but plays no part in Atmos rendering or speaker placement.
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post #599 of 1091 Old 04-07-2019, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post
From Lonnie at EMOTIVA, since I asked him about it before:

With the upcoming release of the new Dolby format there are basically three different types of "virtual" speakers to create objects in space. The first is reflective and these are what you see mounted on top of towers and point to the ceiling. These have a specific frequency response that kicks up signals above 7KHZ to help with localization. The next is Heights. These are mounted high up on the wall facing toward the center of the room. This is the preferred method from dolby and the meta data callouts go directly to these speakers. The third version is Tops which are ceiling mounted speakers pointing down. When using these the Dolby code splits the signal between the tops and the either the bed channels or reflective channels to acoustically make you believe there are height channels.
That's pretty confusing. The reality is much simpler. The home version of Atmos has 5 pairs of speaker locations overhead: Front Height, Top Front, Top Middle, Top Rear, Rear Height.

Real-world placement is flexible (ceiling or high up on walls), but the Atmos renderer assumes all 5 pairs are on the same plane (ceiling), evenly spaced apart, starting at the very front of your set-up, then 25% back, then 50% back, 75% back, and the last pair at the very back of your set-up.

So the only difference between Heights and Tops is where they are located front to back. Heights are at the very front and back; Tops are the middle 3 pairs. Nothing more complicated than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post
There are three distinct speaker settings for Atmos, and the RMC handles them differently. Maybe Dirac correction plays a part.
With Dolby's upcoming height virtualizer, Atmos will become a 3-tiered experience: good (height virtualizer), better (upfiring modules), best (speakers above). That's a little different from what Lonnie is describing. Also, Dirac is room correction. It takes care of peaks & dips in the frequency response but plays no part in Atmos rendering or speaker placement.
I already knew all that, but what I meant regarding Dirac, and was that since the RMC-1 is going to handle the 3 height speaker types and placement differently the measurements or application of Dirac might have something to do with it, since it supposedly does EQ the Atmos speakers.

Emotiva already says they will be treated differently in Atmos, so it's just speculation and assumption. I'm just going off of what was presented to me, which might be incorrect anyway.

Again, I'm just presenting information as given to me regarding Dolby vs Height vs Top, and how the RMC will plan to handle them, and what Dolby has mandated to Emotiva via Lonnie. He does say that Dolby Atmos will treat them differently, and so will the RMC. If right or wrong, I don't know, but Lonnie has also said before that he is friends with a higher up in Dolby.

- AUDIO: (7.2.4 Atmos) EMOTIVA RMC-1 | McIntosh MC-8207 + CROWN XLS 2502, 1502 | KEF LS50, SVS Prime Elevations, RYTHMIK G25HP + L22
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post #600 of 1091 Old 04-07-2019, 10:44 AM
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I already knew all that, but what I meant regarding Dirac, and was that since the RMC-1 is going to handle the 3 height speaker types and placement differently the measurements or application of Dirac might have something to do with it, since it supposedly does EQ the Atmos speakers.
There are 2 types of height speakers: the kind mounted above you and upfiring modules. Since Heights & Tops are both mounted above you, how would Dirac treat them differently?
Quote:
I'm just going off of what was presented to me, which might be incorrect anyway.
Understood, which is why I was careful in my previous reply to credit Lonnie with the description, not you.
Quote:
If right or wrong, I don't know, but Lonnie has also said before that he is friends with a higher up in Dolby.
As a licensee, he would get more accurate info from his Atmos software developers kit than from friends in high places.

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