Best high end receiver - Arcam, NAD or Anthem? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Best high end receiver - Arcam, NAD or Anthem?

hi guys

Looking for a top notch receiver that will take care of my music needs and family tv/movie needs.

Looking for a receiver that will get the best out of my speakers (currently 5 but will upgrade to 7 in the summer, that delivers a beautiful sound, but also packs a punch when the fam are watching movies.

At the moment not interested in the low end/middle of the end Japanese receivers but something more special, that will meet these needs, but also be somewhat future porrf. Since I will be investing a lot, want to make sure I get my moneys worth

Looking at ARCAM AVR850 vs NAD T 777 V3 vs ANTHEM MRX 1120

I am leaning towards Arcam. Started out my love of receivers
with a very old Arcam about 12 years ago, pre hdmi days, then replaced it with the FMJ 400, which I was not so impressed with and recently have a Yamaha, which I do not like at all.


What are your views?
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post #2 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 05:58 AM
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what’s the rest of your system?

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post #3 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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what’s the rest of your system?
everything is/will be wired into receiver. Speakers are Rega Rx3 and Rx 1 - 2 of each and the central one.

Rest of system is just inputs - sat receiver, apple tv, amazon fire etc.

So basically looking for an AVR system that can take care of it all in one box, rather than seperates
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post #4 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 07:37 AM
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from my point of view it's the typical misalignment of budget dispersion between electronics (AVR) and speakers!
it's not really "efficient" to spend <<$2000 for the main speakers and double or three times of it for the amp.

on the other hand the Dirac Live room correction is a real step forward. I'm using the software version on the HTPC.
I don't know Anthems ARC, some people say it's good as well. I doubt that, since it's not able to correct the distance in less than 1ft steps. That's too rough by far to generate "good sound".
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post #5 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
I don't know Anthems ARC, some people say it's good as well. I doubt that, since it's not able to correct the distance in less than 1ft steps. That's too rough by far to generate "good sound".

Well, you couldn't be more wrong about that distance correction thing. ARC is very good. Yes, so is Dirac, but your statement is baseless, especially since you've never used ARC. It sure doesn't seem to bother the great many users and reviewers that care quite pleased with the results.
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post #6 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 07:52 AM
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It also depends on how many HDMI outputs you need/want. The NAD has five while the other two have more. If 5 is enough then the NAD would be my choice just for the price difference between the other two. Of course you know that the Arcam and the Anthem have more. For the cost of the Arcam you could go separates.
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post #7 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 09:49 AM
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Well, you couldn't be more wrong about that distance correction thing.
so what you say is: ARC supports smaller steps than 1ft (newly)?
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post #8 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 09:57 AM
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No it's 1 foot. Why would you need finer? I mean, if it was 1 inch increments and if it really mattered, turning your head to talk to the person beside you would destroy the sound as your ears would move more than an inch? Or have I missed something here?

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post #9 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 10:23 AM
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I think it will be real hard to beat the arcam avr850 for sound quality, the class g amps and the sheer power they're capable of is something else! I myself have an older arcam avr600 (same amps)

However, for ease of use and reliability i wouldn't recommend the arcam to anyone. Also is terms of dirac or ARC, both would be major upgrades to your ears (depending on your room of course), but they both do a much better job than yamaha's room correction, so even if dirac is the better software (not by much though) you'll still notice an audible upgrade with ARC over your existing room correction.

There's also the possibility of a future upgrade to atmos to consider, the anthem does 11 speakers out of the box so it's nice to know if you ever want to upgrade, you can.

It all boils down to you though, the arcam is roughly double the price of the anthem, and you get less amplification channels, more reliability issues (mainly hdmi handshake and heat issues if the avr600 is anything to go on) but you get better amplification and better room correction, although the anthem's amp are able to hold their own against the arcam's.

I myself will be upgrading to the mrx1120 as i will be implementing atmos. If however money was not an issue, i would have gone with the avr850 and external amps for a full 7.1.4 setup, but that would be too much for me.

So in the end if you go with the arcam you'll pay roughly double the price for a slight upgrade in sound quality (both receivers are very musical and have decent amps, it's just that the arcam's are better), and better room correction. the anthem on the other hand is more "user friendly" and you'll have the option to upgrade to atmos in the future.

I have had zero experience with the NAD that's why i didn't mention it. Also if you're absolutely certain that you will not upgrade to atmos then maybe consider the anthem mrx720, it's the same as the 1120 minus 4 amplification channels.


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post #10 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 10:45 AM
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I would look at closeout pricing on marantz 8802a.

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post #11 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
No it's 1 foot. Why would you need finer? I mean, if it was 1 inch increments and if it really mattered, turning your head to talk to the person beside you would destroy the sound as your ears would move more than an inch?
that's more difficult than this...

for stereo music 1 to 2 inch really matter!
of course that depends on your demands and the speakers/room. You can't assume to hear such things with the speakers 1ft to the side walls and a reverb time of nearly 1s at 1kHz.
you can listen to music with a small difference, but that's sub optimal and doesn't justify the price for the equipment. If you want "high end" sound, you need exactly the same distance.

with multi channel sound it's a little bit less critical but still important. If the base is wrong, you'll never get the last percentage of perfection.

just an example: my Yamaha uses 2inch (US) or 5cm (metric) steps. This is just nearly the same, 2in are 5.08cm and not 5cm. So if a speaker is set to 200in there is no correct metric value for it with 5cm steps, either 505cm or 510cm, the AVR probably rounds to 510cm, 2cm or nearly 1in to much.
believe it or not: you can hear if you switch between inch/cm!

please don't misunderstand me
it's not about "destroying" the sound, it's about "high end" and perfection! I don't understand the people paying so much money for the electronics and don't care about the "real" problems. I have several power amps and I can't hear the difference between them but I can hear 1inch, for sure.
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post #12 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 11:15 AM
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The Arcam doesn’t allow universal cross-overs and slopes.

NAD has been having issues with hiss on some of their lines - id check the the owner threads to see how more elana this is.

Not a lot bad you can say about the Anthem.
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post #13 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcaouki View Post
hi guys

Looking for a top notch receiver that will take care of my music needs and family tv/movie needs.

Looking for a receiver that will get the best out of my speakers (currently 5 but will upgrade to 7 in the summer, that delivers a beautiful sound, but also packs a punch when the fam are watching movies.

At the moment not interested in the low end/middle of the end Japanese receivers but something more special, that will meet these needs, but also be somewhat future porrf. Since I will be investing a lot, want to make sure I get my moneys worth

Looking at ARCAM AVR850 vs NAD T 777 V3 vs ANTHEM MRX 1120

I am leaning towards Arcam. Started out my love of receivers
with a very old Arcam about 12 years ago, pre hdmi days, then replaced it with the FMJ 400, which I was not so impressed with and recently have a Yamaha, which I do not like at all.


What are your views?
You are not going to get better than this brand new in the box unopened 8802a for a steal of a price. I know the seller Bill, for what it is worth he is a good guy, honest and will not rip you off. For sale in the avs classified section.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-a...z-av8802a.html
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post #14 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
that's more difficult than this...

for stereo music 1 to 2 inch really matter!
of course that depends on your demands and the speakers/room. You can't assume to hear such things with the speakers 1ft to the side walls and a reverb time of nearly 1s at 1kHz.
you can listen to music with a small difference, but that's sub optimal and doesn't justify the price for the equipment. If you want "high end" sound, you need exactly the same distance.

with multi channel sound it's a little bit less critical but still important. If the base is wrong, you'll never get the last percentage of perfection.

just an example: my Yamaha uses 2inch (US) or 5cm (metric) steps. This is just nearly the same, 2in are 5.08cm and not 5cm. So if a speaker is set to 200in there is no correct metric value for it with 5cm steps, either 505cm or 510cm, the AVR probably rounds to 510cm, 2cm or nearly 1in to much.
believe it or not: you can hear if you switch between inch/cm!

please don't misunderstand me
it's not about "destroying" the sound, it's about "high end" and perfection! I don't understand the people paying so much money for the electronics and don't care about the "real" problems. I have several power amps and I can't hear the difference between them but I can hear 1inch, for sure.
It's your money and your call, of course. I'm pretty sure I couldn't pick this out consistently in a double blind test.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #15 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 02:04 PM
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I think you have already made up your mind and you will be happy. I will be in the same boat as you as my pre-HDMI Marantz 8000 series AVR will be replaced... one day. I think separates are the way to go but it's a price jump for no real SQ benefit in your seat.
If I got separates years ago I would just be getting a new preamp and just keep the rest. I may even use my AVR as an amp for the back/height channels.
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post #16 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
so what you say is: ARC supports smaller steps than 1ft (newly)?

No, I'm saying you're dead wrong when you say the sound can't be good because it only distances in 1 foot increments....

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post #17 of 55 Old 11-22-2018, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcaouki View Post
Looking at ARCAM AVR850 vs NAD T 777 V3 vs ANTHEM MRX 1120
I find it hard to think of any of the three as "high-end". Arcam as decent mid hi-fi, Anthem as OK also there, and NAD as trying.

They may be high-priced, but the amplifier circuitry is firmly midrange, or entry-mid for NAD's case, by stereo hi-fi standards. That's not to say it's bad, as even midrange hi-fi is excellent sound, which very few people will find lacking, and most who say they do won't be honest! But the audio high-end is amps like Nelson Pass's balanced class-A XS-150. And a lot more that aren't as accurate or don't sound as good, but distort sound in pleasant ways and charge similar prices.

Anyway, the real answer to your question depends entirely on your speakers. That's what you drive and what you hear - the amp or AVR is just a tool to drive it.
If I were you, I'd get a much more affordable AVR, and invest more in the speakers. None of the AVR you mention is really a good match for the very non-cinematic speakers you're considering. The RX3 do not call for a powerful amp, and they won't perform much better with an Arcam than with a Marantz.

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post #18 of 55 Old 11-23-2018, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcaouki View Post
hi guys

Looking for a top notch receiver that will take care of my music needs and family tv/movie needs.

Looking for a receiver that will get the best out of my speakers (currently 5 but will upgrade to 7 in the summer, that delivers a beautiful sound, but also packs a punch when the fam are watching movies.

At the moment not interested in the low end/middle of the end Japanese receivers but something more special, that will meet these needs, but also be somewhat future porrf. Since I will be investing a lot, want to make sure I get my moneys worth

Looking at ARCAM AVR850 vs NAD T 777 V3 vs ANTHEM MRX 1120

I am leaning towards Arcam. Started out my love of receivers
with a very old Arcam about 12 years ago, pre hdmi days, then replaced it with the FMJ 400, which I was not so impressed with and recently have a Yamaha, which I do not like at all.


What are your views?
Can you clarify your budget for this? If I read this correctly, your 3 candidate AVRs have very different MSRP price points of $6000, $3500 and $2500 for the Arcam, Anthem and NAD.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #19 of 55 Old 11-23-2018, 10:13 AM
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No, I'm saying you're dead wrong when you say the sound can't be good because it only distances in 1 foot increments....
let me make it: not as good as it could be
I know the difference, but some people are satisfied with the second best
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post #20 of 55 Old 11-23-2018, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
let me make it: not as good as it could be
I know the difference, but some people are satisfied with the second best

Well, if it makes you lose sleep at night, I can't help you. I know it doesn't make me lose any. I guess I'm happy settling for second best.

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post #21 of 55 Old 11-23-2018, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcaouki View Post
hi guys

Looking for a top notch receiver that will take care of my music needs and family tv/movie needs.

Looking for a receiver that will get the best out of my speakers (currently 5 but will upgrade to 7 in the summer, that delivers a beautiful sound, but also packs a punch when the fam are watching movies.

At the moment not interested in the low end/middle of the end Japanese receivers but something more special, that will meet these needs, but also be somewhat future porrf. Since I will be investing a lot, want to make sure I get my moneys worth

Looking at ARCAM AVR850 vs NAD T 777 V3 vs ANTHEM MRX 1120

I am leaning towards Arcam. Started out my love of receivers
with a very old Arcam about 12 years ago, pre hdmi days, then replaced it with the FMJ 400, which I was not so impressed with and recently have a Yamaha, which I do not like at all.


What are your views?

What is your justification for labeling these three receivers as: "Best high end receiver"?
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post #22 of 55 Old 11-23-2018, 07:14 PM
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Did I miss it? I read the OP post again and I don't see where he labelled these 3 as best.

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Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #23 of 55 Old 11-23-2018, 07:29 PM
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Sold my marantz amplifier and processor , as I wanted to upgrade to 4K and thought I was due for a change , so I went with Anthem.
I didn’t have the money to go with Arcam, but wish I had . Although Anthems pretty decent , I’ll always wonder if Arcam would have improved things further.
I’m one of the few that dislike ARC and prefer Audyssey. Although I wish I tried bypassing Audyssey,as I find I much prefer my anthem AVM60 with ARC off . Never thought to do that with my Marantz setup , because I thought I had decent sound immediately after I did it’s room correction setup. .
My new system sounds very dead with ARC on , but obviously everyone’s room is going to give different results , so imo don’t take my word for it , but audition a receiver first in order to make a better decision.

In my case I’d have to say I’m pretty impressed with the sound as long as ARC is off
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post #24 of 55 Old 11-23-2018, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
let me make it: not as good as it could be
I know the difference, but some people are satisfied with the second best
You must be satisfied with less than second best if you are using Yamaha.
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post #25 of 55 Old 11-24-2018, 04:37 AM
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You must be satisfied with less than second best if you are using Yamaha.
I think you should stay by the facts
1ft is roughly the wavelength at 1kHz under normal conditions, or half the wavelength of 500Hz, which means 1ft is the same as 180 degree phase shift at 500Hz
is there anybody here who wants to deny that this doesn't affect the sound quality? Really?

I can attach the Oppo player directly to the TAG McLaren power amp or use the Yamaha pre in between, no difference. So what's the problem with the Yamaha?
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post #26 of 55 Old 11-24-2018, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
I think you should stay by the facts
1ft is roughly the wavelength at 1kHz under normal conditions, or half the wavelength of 500Hz, which means 1ft is the same as 180 degree phase shift at 500Hz
is there anybody here who wants to deny that this doesn't affect the sound quality? Really?

I can attach the Oppo player directly to the TAG McLaren power amp or use the Yamaha pre in between, no difference. So what's the problem with the Yamaha?
Perhaps I am hearing the incremental measurements that you are describing and they do make a difference (not for the better). That might explain why I prefer many other brands over Yamaha.That would place Yamaha 4th best when comparing these models.
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post #27 of 55 Old 11-24-2018, 10:51 AM
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which "incremental measurements" are you referring to?
I don't even know what it is / what you mean?
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post #28 of 55 Old 11-24-2018, 11:01 AM
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I am in the process of upgrading my AVR

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmed_gharbawi View Post
I think it will be real hard to beat the arcam avr850 for sound quality, the class g amps and the sheer power they're capable of is something else! I myself have an older arcam avr600 (same amps)

There's also the possibility of a future upgrade to atmos to consider, the anthem does 11 speakers out of the box so it's nice to know if you ever want to upgrade, you can.

I myself will be upgrading to the mrx1120 as i will be implementing atmos. If however money was not an issue, i would have gone with the avr850 and external amps for a full 7.1.4 setup, but that would be too much for me.

So in the end if you go with the arcam you'll pay roughly double the price for a slight upgrade in sound quality (both receivers are very musical and have decent amps, it's just that the arcam's are better), and better room correction. the anthem on the other hand is more "user friendly" and you'll have the option to upgrade to atmos in the future.
I trust the AVR 850 has an upgrated amp over the AVR 600 (seems more wattage and also capable of higher output in 4 ohm, which the AVR 600 does not give if my understanding is correct (my speakers are 4 ohm).

The other thing is trust you could configure the Arcam to 5.1.2 (i would not possible be able to fit more speakers into my home)

Right now Arcam has a trade in offer reducing the cost 25%.

The Arcam misses the eACR and if I have understood correctly has only one setting for the room correction (I'd think you would benefit from one setting for music and one for film not least on large screens when such is only down during film watching.


However, both receivers are old designs (3 years if I am not mistaking) so should I wait for a whie till some new versions are released from Anthem and Arcam being the two potential candidates at least if Anthem improve their design as they did for the stereo receivers?
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post #30 of 55 Old 06-16-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by nuri58 View Post
However, both receivers are old designs (3 years if I am not mistaking) so should I wait for a whie till some new versions are released from Anthem and Arcam being the two potential candidates at least if Anthem improve their design as they did for the stereo receivers?
Anthem did improve their design in a way - the new ARC Genesis. Although I have an AVM60, I have yet to use Genesis (just no time yet!), but it is getting some good reviews by Anthem owners as compared to previous version (which is also very good) - people are still trying to get it all figured out, but you should check on the ARC Genesis thread to see what is being said.

If you have time to wait, sure, why not? But only those manufacturers know when something new is coming out and what features might be onboard. Not sure about Arcam, but Anthem is coming due. Does not mean anything coming from me though. I'm in no hurry to upgrade. Nothing I need at the moment and possibly for years to come really.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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