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post #1 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Amplifiers, Buzz, Power Conditioners

I have just received my first external amplifier, a Monolith 7X, and I have notice that I have a slight buzz coming from the speakers, which gets louder when the receiver is turned on.

To eliminate a ground loop issue, I disconnected the power every component in the system and the buzz is still there.

When I plug the Monolith into my Furman Elite-15 audio outlet, it reduces the buzz quite a bit. My concern is I have read that power conditioners can affect negatively audio performance. Should I worry about this? Is there a better solution?

For the record, I have about 30 light dimmers in my house, which can create some noise I believe.

Your help is the most welcome!

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post #2 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 05:44 AM
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probably it's not what you want to hear, but it's my honest opinion
if an amplifier is of such poor quality it produces a buzz and needs an additional power conditioner, I would through it away and buy something more decent...
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post #3 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
probably it's not what you want to hear, but it's my honest opinion
if an amplifier is of such poor quality it produces a buzz and needs an additional power conditioner, I would through it away and buy something more decent...
Indeed, not really what I want to hear lol... I read many reviews before buying and the Amp is suppose to be dead quiet. ATI is a reputable company and make great stuff, I would expect a product free of buzz.

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post #4 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 05:59 AM
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does it generate the buzz if you disconnect (shortcut) the input?
if yes it's poor quality or broken
if not you have to dig deeper to find the source
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post #5 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey Mouse View Post
does it generate the buzz if you disconnect (shortcut) the input?
if yes it's poor quality or broken
if not you have to dig deeper to find the source
Yes it does.

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post #6 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 06:06 AM
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The power amp has a three pin connector, the avr is probably double insulated and 2 pin. Try putting a cheater plug on the power amp (less than $1 at Walmart) to lift the ground and see if the sound goes away.

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post #7 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
The power amp has a three pin connector, the avr is probably double insulated and 2 pin. Try putting a cheater plug on the power amp (less than $1 at Walmart) to lift the ground and see if the sound goes away.

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Something like this?

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post #8 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 06:18 AM
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If you have a ground loop and not a bad amp, can be fairly easy to deal with. First, make sure all of your AV equipment is plugged into the same outlet (not some equipment into one outlet and other equipment into a different outlet). And as you already have seen, your Furman will help. Yes, the Furman may slightly impact your amp's performance (although it probably won't), but shouldn't have an effect on any of your other equipment's performance. I wouldn't worry too much about it, although you can search for power conditioners (usually the more expensive ones) that claim they have one outlet designed for high-power amps. Another potential solution is a ground loop isolator. Ground loops often come from your TV cable as it enters your house (assuming you have cable such as Comcast, Fios, etc). Have you tried detaching the cable where it enters the house to see if that eliminates the buzz? If so, this isolator should help.

https://www.amazon.com/Viewsonics-VS.../dp/B0017I3K9M

Of course, if the cable is the problem, another solution is to have your cable company come and properly ground the cable where it enters your house. Lastly, the problem could be coming from your light dimmers (they are notorious for adding buzz to AV equipment). If none of the other solutions help, you could have an electrician come and isolate all your AV equipment to a dedicated line to your fuse box so that no lights are on the same line.
Hope this help. But also search ground loop on google for more information.
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post #9 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post
If you have a ground loop and not a bad amp, can be fairly easy to deal with. First, make sure all of your AV equipment is plugged into the same outlet (not some equipment into one outlet and other equipment into a different outlet). And as you already have seen, your Furman will help. Yes, the Furman may slightly impact your amp's performance (although it probably won't), but shouldn't have an effect on any of your other equipment's performance. I wouldn't worry too much about it, although you can search for power conditioners (usually the more expensive ones) that claim they have one outlet designed for high-power amps. Another potential solution is a ground loop isolator. Ground loops often come from your TV cable as it enters your house (assuming you have cable such as Comcast, Fios, etc). Have you tried detaching the cable where it enters the house to see if that eliminates the buzz? If so, this isolator should help.

https://www.amazon.com/Viewsonics-VS.../dp/B0017I3K9M

Of course, if the cable is the problem, another solution is to have your cable company come and properly ground the cable where it enters your house. Lastly, the problem could be coming from your light dimmers (they are notorious for adding buzz to AV equipment). If none of the other solutions help, you could have an electrician come and isolate all your AV equipment to a dedicated line to your fuse box so that no lights are on the same line.
Hope this help. But also search ground loop on google for more information.
Thank you for your help. I do not have a cable TV, my service (Bell Canada) comes from a pair bonding of 2 telephone lines. It is a fix until fiber to the home is installed in my neighbourhood.

I could try to disconnect the phone lines and see if it helps?

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post #10 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Amplifiers, Buzz, Power Conditioners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
The power amp has a three pin connector, the avr is probably double insulated and 2 pin. Try putting a cheater plug on the power amp (less than $1 at Walmart) to lift the ground and see if the sound goes away.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


I have made a home made Cheater plug with an old power bar. The buzz is completely gone when the amp is running by herself. Very slight buzz when I turn on the Marantz SR7010, but much less than usual.




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post #11 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post
I have made a home made Cheater plug with an old power bar. The buzz is completely gone when the amp is running by herself. Very slight buzz when I turn on the Marantz SR7010, but much less than usual.


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Your Furman has a dedicated amp hook up and is of high quality. Glad to hear is you are getting this worked out. Pesky issues when you spend that much money and expect perfection. . Good luck
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post #12 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post
I have just received my first external amplifier, a Monolith 7X, and I have notice that I have a slight buzz coming from the speakers, which gets louder when the receiver is turned on.

To eliminate a ground loop issue, I disconnected the power every component in the system and the buzz is still there.

When I plug the Monolith into my Furman Elite-15 audio outlet, it reduces the buzz quite a bit. My concern is I have read that power conditioners can affect negatively audio performance. Should I worry about this? Is there a better solution?

For the record, I have about 30 light dimmers in my house, which can create some noise I believe.

Your help is the most welcome!
The furman Elite 15-pfi has 4 high caps which are meant for subs and amps. The high caps are the plugs on the left next to the cable/satellite protection.
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post #13 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
The furman Elite 15-pfi has 4 high caps which are meant for subs and amps. The high caps are the plugs on the left next to the cable/satellite protection.


Mine is not the PFI but the older model (see pic). So I should not experience lower audio quality? Going back and fort last night made me believe I was losing some soundstage when plugged into the Furman. Might be my mind playing me since I was tired...





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post #14 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bdcody01 View Post
Your Furman has a dedicated amp hook up and is of high quality. Glad to hear is you are getting this worked out. Pesky issues when you spend that much money and expect perfection. . Good luck


Thanks! Will tried that again.


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post #15 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 08:22 AM
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Thanks! Will tried that again.


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What model is it? it probably has at least one high cap on it
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post #16 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
What model is it? it probably has at least one high cap on it


It just says “Elite-15” on the front panel. I believe it is this unit reviewed by Audioholics: https://www.audioholics.com/power-co...urman-elite-15


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Those light dimmers are awful sharing the same circuit as the A/V gear.

You can carefully check by shutting off one breaker at a time while noting what receptacles go with it. Try to make sure that the A/V gear is on its own circuit.

One of the best things I did for my system was have an electrician install dedicated circuits.
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...RFI and EMI are always trying to hitch hike a ride on your wires and cables, bringing on noise.
Keep power cords away from other wires. if speaker wire is longer than needed, don't coil it. The coiled wire can pick up nasty stuff and run it through the system as noise.
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Electrical problems are really tricky to solve. Like you said, someone can be telling you their tales of whoa about how bad a component is, and then you find out that they have a dimmer hooked up to fluorescent lighting in the same room that could be causing all kinds of problems. Each person's case is different, and the components have different methods of shielding that gets rid of most, if not all, of the electrical interference problems. That being said, a cheap AVR could get rid of the noise, while an audiophile grade component happens to detect the noise due to the way the circuitry is designed. I've seen it happen in a lot of cases, but usually the problem is solved by finding a component with shielding that will get rid of a particular electrical interference. All amplifiers and preamplifiers are capable of picking up certain electrical interferences, depending on the users unique situation. Sometimes there is a solution that you just have to stumble upon in order to resolve.

Electrical interference noise is one of the trickiest problems to solve, and nothing is carved in stone as to what needs to be done to remedy the situations. Sometimes it's just trial and error that will remedy the situation, but if you want to practically guarantee an interference, put a lighting circuit in the same room as your sound system, and then hook a rheostat or dimmer up to that circuit. They are on different runs to the main panel, but the switches sometimes house both the lighting circuit wires and the wires that supply the outlets in the room that may share a common wire or a ground, or both.
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post #20 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Indeed, my system is currently on a dedicated circuit and still get some noise.

I will continue to investigate tomorrow when I have more time.

Thanks guys for all your help, it is greatly appreciated!


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post #21 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post
I have just received my first external amplifier, a Monolith 7X, and I have notice that I have a slight buzz coming from the speakers, which gets louder when the receiver is turned on.

To eliminate a ground loop issue, I disconnected the power every component in the system and the buzz is still there.

When I plug the Monolith into my Furman Elite-15 audio outlet, it reduces the buzz quite a bit. My concern is I have read that power conditioners can affect negatively audio performance. Should I worry about this? Is there a better solution?

For the record, I have about 30 light dimmers in my house, which can create some noise I believe.

Your help is the most welcome!
I was just going to start a new thread on my issues with hum/buzz and noticed yours. I am in the same boat. Few days ago, I added Monolith 3x200 to my system. Its hooked to a Yamaha AVR and both are powered by Monster HTS3600 MKII Powercenter. I have connected amp to the dedicated amp outlet on the powercenter.

I my case, everything works fine until I connect the speaker cable to center channel and I get loud hum in center and R speakers. The moment I disconnect center channel speaker cable, the hum goes away. I have tried to swap outlets on powercenter and swap cables but no benefit. I will try some of the tips mentioned in this thread. For now, I am just using L/R channels. Please share if you are able to find a solution.
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post #22 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 12:06 PM
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Does anyone know how can I ground the amplifier? There is a 'GND' outlet on the back which I am assuming can be used to ground the amplifier to resolve the issues.

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post #23 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
I was just going to start a new thread on my issues with hum/buzz and noticed yours. I am in the same boat. Few days ago, I added Monolith 3x200 to my system. Its hooked to a Yamaha AVR and both are powered by Monster HTS3600 MKII Powercenter. I have connected amp to the dedicated amp outlet on the powercenter.



I my case, everything works fine until I connect the speaker cable to center channel and I get loud hum in center and R speakers. The moment I disconnect center channel speaker cable, the hum goes away. I have tried to swap outlets on powercenter and swap cables but no benefit. I will try some of the tips mentioned in this thread. For now, I am just using L/R channels. Please share if you are able to find a solution.


Funny, me too the buzz is a lot stronger in the Center channel. I thought it was because the speaker was more sensitive, but I could be wrong.

Please share your experiences on this thread


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post #24 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 12:19 PM
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...Yes you can ground the units together, starting with the amp ground that is mentioned above.
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post #25 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post
...Yes you can ground the units together, starting with the amp ground that is mentioned above.


Do you connect the ground on the Monolith to a screw on the receivers rear panel?


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post #26 of 66 Old 12-15-2018, 01:11 PM
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Do you connect the ground on the Monolith to a screw on the receivers rear panel?


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Yes and what type of cable/wire do you use?

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post #27 of 66 Old 12-17-2018, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
Yes and what type of cable/wire do you use?
I could not get rid of the buzzing no matter what I did, so I tried to ground the receiver and amplifier together. Buzz is now gone like magic!
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post #28 of 66 Old 12-17-2018, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post
I could not get rid of the buzzing no matter what I did, so I tried to ground the receiver and amplifier together. Buzz is now gone like magic!
Exactly how did you do that? Thanks

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post #29 of 66 Old 12-17-2018, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgrise View Post
I could not get rid of the buzzing no matter what I did, so I tried to ground the receiver and amplifier together. Buzz is now gone like magic!
Good news!
It appears that everything is now on the same ground.
Which makes me wonder if you have isolated grounding along with the dedicated circuits.

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post #30 of 66 Old 12-18-2018, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
Exactly how did you do that? Thanks

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Attache a 14AWG (or larger) wire from the ground post on the 7X to the ground screw on the back of the receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post
Good news!
It appears that everything is now on the same ground.
Which makes me wonder if you have isolated grounding along with the dedicated circuits.
There is something going on, I will investigate in the next days. But I am finally reassured!
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