Dirac to Debut Multi-Subwoofer Bass Management Module at CES 2019 - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 144 Old 08-24-2019, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I'd like to know if a miniDSP DDRC (which is a 2x4 HD w/Dirac license) could potentially utilize the new DL Multi-sub Bass Management, integrate with a Dirac Live enabled SSP. @flax , can you comment on the possibilities for utilizing Multi-sub with external hardware?
It was either earlier in this or another thread around here that it talked about that scenario. Having a Dirac Live enabled 2x4 can't be combined with a Dirac Live enabled processor.

So a 9.4.6 system will require a 20ch processor by the look of things.

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post #92 of 144 Old 08-26-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
From Dirac Live Bass Management Makes Residential AV Market Debut at CEDIA 2019



I am looking forward to their CEDIA Master Class session to get some clarity on this claim. Is this somehow related to Dirac Unison or just loose marketing?
I'd like to know if they plan on making any of this available for existing processors from Arcam/Lexicon/NAD for those of us already well entrenched with dirac and expensive units...

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post #93 of 144 Old 08-26-2019, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I'd like to know if a miniDSP DDRC (which is a 2x4 HD w/Dirac license) could potentially utilize the new DL Multi-sub Bass Management, integrate with a Dirac Live enabled SSP. @flax , can you comment on the possibilities for utilizing Multi-sub with external hardware?
This is what I'm hoping to do as well. Hopefully miniDSP can provide some information on this after they unveil Dirac Bass Management at the upcoming show.

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post #94 of 144 Old 09-11-2019, 12:18 PM
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Well?
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post #95 of 144 Old 09-11-2019, 05:11 PM
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Reminds me of last year when they were demoing Dirac 2. No-one reported on it.
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Last edited by astr0b0y; 09-11-2019 at 11:41 PM.
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post #96 of 144 Old 09-11-2019, 09:25 PM
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I was expecting loads of reports...
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post #97 of 144 Old 09-12-2019, 07:44 PM
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I asked in the Dirac booth for this and they tell me it's up to the manufacturers to implement it but no one done it yet.

The monoprice guy said Dirac has not finished on their end and is expecting them to finish by November so they can release this at least by the end of the year, so don't know who's telling the truth but no one is showing this so it may not be finished.

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post #98 of 144 Old 09-12-2019, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by juanchibiris View Post
I asked in the Dirac booth for this and they tell me it's up to the manufacturers to implement it but no one done it yet.

The monoprice guy said Dirac has not finished on their end and is expecting them to finish by November so they can release this at least by the end of the year, so don't know who's telling the truth but no one is showing this so it may not be finished.

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We seem to be getting into a situation with lots of vaporware, hardware and software, and lots of excuses from numerous vendors. Too many fails in schedule performance.
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post #99 of 144 Old 09-12-2019, 09:21 PM
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So confused by this product..what is it? Is it ever going to arrive?
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post #100 of 144 Old 09-13-2019, 08:34 AM
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So confused by this product..what is it?
Bass management + subwoofer/speaker blending + multi-subwoofer optimization.

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post #101 of 144 Old 09-13-2019, 09:51 AM
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We seem to be getting into a situation with lots of vaporware, hardware and software, and lots of excuses from numerous vendors. Too many fails in schedule performance.
This was showed 1 year ago I believe right? So one year after and nothing yet.

There's a monitor from ASUS that was announced in CES 2017 and was just released like a month ago, maybe something like this will happen.

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post #102 of 144 Old 09-13-2019, 10:52 AM
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So confused by this product..what is it?
I've yet to see or read any evidence there is a product at all. There are a lot of vaporware red flags IMO. I hope to be proven wrong.
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post #103 of 144 Old 09-13-2019, 11:39 AM
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I've yet to see or read any evidence there is a product at all. There are a lot of vaporware red flags IMO. I hope to be proven wrong.
Just trust the process. Trust it.
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post #104 of 144 Old 09-13-2019, 12:27 PM
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Maybe @flax can provide any inside info?
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post #105 of 144 Old 09-14-2019, 10:01 AM
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Just trust the process. Trust it.
Yeah, you're right. It was probably just a miscommunication that titled this thread, "Dirac to Debut Multi-Subwoofer Bass Management Module at CES 2019". They probably just forgot the dates or something.
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post #106 of 144 Old 09-14-2019, 10:22 AM
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MSBM seems like it's heading towards Unison territory.
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post #107 of 144 Old 09-14-2019, 01:06 PM
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MSBM seems like it's heading towards Unison territory.
I was thinking the same thing myself. Their Twitter account is still strongly promoting it though.
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post #108 of 144 Old 10-04-2019, 06:15 AM
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Hi

Just trying to understand what exactly bass management is? Doesn't the current version of Dirace support bass management? Dirac supposed to be superior to Audyssey. Currently, you can do bass management with Audyssey. Are you saying that Dirac cannot cut low frequencies for the subwoofer while applying a high pass filter to the rest of the speakers? If it already does that, so what will this BM upgrade offer, say for a single subwoofer?

Thanks
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post #109 of 144 Old 10-04-2019, 06:51 AM
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Couple thoughts.

At first I was really excited about this. But, the fact you have to use up valuable channels in your processor in order to utilize this, sucks. For people really into this hobby, they are likely not going to have 4 open channels in their 11 or 16 channel processor available for subs.

If you could throw this in a minidsp ddrc, that would make the most sense. I'd be bummed if they don't do this.

However, if you are going to use a minidsp, then just utilize a standard 2x4HD and get everything set on one channel then turn on dirac live BM??

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post #110 of 144 Old 10-04-2019, 06:55 AM
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Bass management is performed by the AVR itself, not Audyssey or Dirac Live.

Dirac Live's Unison appears to be a scheme that uses speakers in array fashion to optimize bass frequency response.
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post #111 of 144 Old 10-04-2019, 09:00 AM
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Just trying to understand what exactly bass management is?
Dirac Live Bass Management will apparently come in two versions, one that does crossovers and subwoofer/speaker blending and another version that does those same things but adds multi-subwoofer optimization.
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Doesn't the current version of Dirace support bass management?
No, each input channel (speaker or subwoofer) is equalized independently, with no crossovers and no consideration of other input channels (i.e., no blending speakers and subwoofers at the crossover point).
Quote:
Currently, you can do bass management with Audyssey.
No, the receiver or pre-pro does the bass management; Audyssey does the equalization.
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Are you saying that Dirac cannot cut low frequencies for the subwoofer while applying a high pass filter to the rest of the speakers?
Correct, that functionality is not built into the current version of Dirac Live.

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post #112 of 144 Old 10-04-2019, 09:40 AM
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No, the receiver or pre-pro does the bass management; Audyssey does the equalization. Correct, that functionality is not built into the current version of Dirac Live.
Thanks. But when I run Audyssey on my Denon, the results sets all crossover points automatically. Isn't that called bass management?
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post #113 of 144 Old 10-04-2019, 09:53 AM
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But when I run Audyssey on my Denon, the results sets all crossover points automatically. Isn't that called bass management?
Yes, but your Denon is doing that, not Audyssey.
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post #114 of 144 Old 10-04-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Yes, but your Denon is doing that, not Audyssey.
Do you know if Dirac live corrects speakers by pairs? Audyssey only corrects each channel separately, therefore, if you have a standing wave, it cannot modify the phase of two speakers as a pair in order to reduce mutual cancelations. The Dirac kive demos I've heard only output frequency sweeps for each channel separately, so I'm guessing it cannot correct mutual problems, otherwise, you would have heard test tones coming from two speakers at the same time. Will the MB upgrade add this feature?
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post #115 of 144 Old 10-04-2019, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by EB1000 View Post
Do you know if Dirac live corrects speakers by pairs? Audyssey only corrects each channel separately, therefore, if you have a standing wave, it cannot modify the phase of two speakers as a pair in order to reduce mutual cancelations. The Dirac kive demos I've heard only output frequency sweeps for each channel separately, so I'm guessing it cannot correct mutual problems, otherwise, you would have heard test tones coming from two speakers at the same time. Will the MB upgrade add this feature?

Why do you want to reduce mutual cancellations? One of the advantages of multiple subwoofers if they are spread around a room intelligently, is that room modes may be partly cancelled. Depending on location, adding more subs may not increase total SPL as significantly as envisioned, but it will smooth response. A room mode peak at one location from one subwoofer fills in a valley created by another subwoofer at that location. Do you believe these peaks and valleys should instead by reinforced.
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post #116 of 144 Old 10-04-2019, 10:53 AM
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Do you know if Dirac live corrects speakers by pairs?
Not yet, but some time ago they did mention an upcoming feature that would check the phase between adjacent speakers to improve imaging (not to cancel standing waves). This was not related to their bass management option. The most effective way to address standing waves remains placement (subwoofers, speakers, listeners). Plus it's free (doesn't cost anything to move the listener location or subwoofers).

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post #117 of 144 Old 10-04-2019, 12:01 PM
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Technically, using the "full" version of Dirac Live, you can set target curves to accomplish high-pass and low-pass filtering. In theory you can match crossovers that way. It practice it is a PITA requiring a lot of work and going back and forth measuring and tweaking curves to get it right (err, "close"). I did it once. Probably (hopefully) never again, and am not using those settings now as after changing speakers I have no desire to (try to) repeat the process.

So in the real world Sanjay is right (as usual).

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post #118 of 144 Old 10-07-2019, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EB1000 View Post
Thanks. But when I run Audyssey on my Denon, the results sets all crossover points automatically. Isn't that called bass management?
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Yes, but your Denon is doing that, not Audyssey.
And just to piggy back on this, your Denon is not testing the blend between the speakers and the subs to make sure the XO selected is the most appropriate or even time aligned for that matter. This is why many have to do the SDT (Sub Distance Tweak). The BM software for Dirac is supposedly going to do this, and other than Trinnov, be the only other REQ software that does....(maybe room perfect too? Can't remember).
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post #119 of 144 Old 10-07-2019, 10:44 AM
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The BM software for Dirac is supposedly going to do this, and other than Trinnov, be the only other REQ software that does....(maybe room perfect too? Can't remember).
Wasn't aware that Trinnov and Lyngdorf actively blended speakers and subwoofers. The only one I knew about for sure was Harman's old ARCOS room correction, which used all-pass filters to fine tune the phase between speakers and subwoofers to get a smoother/flatter blend. They had a speaker design algorithm called Auto Curve Sum that could automatically figure out how best to blend various drivers in their loudspeakers. They simply adapted this to their room correction suite for sub/speaker blending.

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post #120 of 144 Old 10-07-2019, 11:12 AM
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I don't own a Trinnov myself (wish I did!), but I remember from some old reviews I read that the Optimiser tries to actively correct the crossover area.

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