The Official NAD C658 Thread - Page 49 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1441 of 1556 Old 02-09-2020, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EB1000 View Post
The only way to clear the filter slots is to do a full factory reset. I'm guessing that the new version is not yet compatible with the C658. You'll have to wait for a firmware update.

Haven't had to do that before and I'm hoping wont have to do that ever! After I posted, I went to Dirac and downloaded the new software but now it looks like I have to remeasure again because it says my saved projects will not open on the new software and I have not had time to do so yet. That may take care of the issue, fingers crossed.

Last edited by MoreVolume; 02-09-2020 at 03:09 PM.
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post #1442 of 1556 Old 02-09-2020, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by candor View Post
I logged a ticket to Dirac Support. I attached my project and log file to ticket. Might help if you did the same. FWIW, I had to make a separate support account from the Dirac license account.

According to their site the release was 2/7/2020. Just my luck that I made sub changes Friday but didn't get around to redoing Dirac till Saturday.

Wonder if install makes a recovery point?

Hope it is an easy fix as they did make some improvements.

Did you download the new software and are still having an issue?
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post #1443 of 1556 Old 02-10-2020, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by OVG74 View Post
BTW, I have noticed my new unit provides less gain then original. I do not understand, now I have to set amount on fixed scale to -5db while earlier it was -12db for the same level.
I immediately noticed the same with my replacement unit, my casual listening level was -40db with the original but closer to -34 with the replacement. After ~30hrs of play time the replacement is warming/opening up and hopefully will reach the same levels as the original after another month or two.
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post #1444 of 1556 Old 02-10-2020, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MoreVolume View Post
New Dirac update in last couple weeks I see! So I remeasured my 17 positions and I am getting this message:

Filter conversion error - An error with code 1 (General error) occurred when converting the filter

Any one know what this means? I cannot replace an existing filter.

And when I click on the upper left Dirac Live it says 2.4.0 but on my screen under the BIG red NAD square it still says 2.1.

After updating and rebooting the 658, logging out and logging back in to Dirac, remeasuring again, same thing, cannot export new filter to any slots and I gave up.

So frustrating when updates are released and they don't work. Probably something simple, if only they would tell you.
I just downloaded the new version (got version 2.4.1), and installed it on my (Win10) laptop (retaining the older version on my desktop if it didnt work).

Installed it, connected to the C658, and loaded my last project.

Loaded my target curves, to make the program recalculate the filters.

Proceded to upload to the C658, and it went smooth.

Perhaps you should try the 2.4.1 version, perhaps it is a bugfix?

As to any changes, I noticed the calculations of the filters went _much_ faster than normal.

And I believe I can hear the improved stereo imaging they advertise for this version. There seems to be even more clarity now, and more space around the instruments and performers.
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NAD C658 >
> Hypex UCD400HG/HxR > Dali Mentor 6
> BK XXLS400 FF

Last edited by KarVi; 02-10-2020 at 11:28 AM.
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post #1445 of 1556 Old 02-10-2020, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by KarVi View Post
I just downloaded the new version (got version 2.4.1), and installed it on my (Win10) laptop (retaining the older version on my desktop if it didnt work).

Installed it, connected to the C658, and loaded my last project.

Loaded my target curves, to make the program recalculate the filters.

Proceded to upload to the C658, and it went smooth.

Perhaps you should try the 2.4.1 version, perhaps it is a bugfix?

As to any changes, I noticed the calculations of the filters went _much_ faster than normal.


And I believe I can hear the improved stereo imaging they advertise for this version. There seems to be even more clarity now, and more space around the instruments and performers.
When I go to Dirac Live I see; Latest version: 2.4.0 (2020-02-07)
Super, glad to hear it went smooth and you notice some improvements, we are all wanting improvements! I'm sure my troubles are because I did not download the update, Ill be messing with it in the next few days.

Last edited by MoreVolume; 02-10-2020 at 11:54 AM.
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post #1446 of 1556 Old 02-10-2020, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreVolume View Post
New Dirac update in last couple weeks I see! So I remeasured my 17 positions and I am getting this message:

Filter conversion error - An error with code 1 (General error) occurred when converting the filter

Any one know what this means? I cannot replace an existing filter.

And when I click on the upper left Dirac Live it says 2.4.0 but on my screen under the BIG red NAD square it still says 2.1.

After updating and rebooting the 658, logging out and logging back in to Dirac, remeasuring again, same thing, cannot export new filter to any slots and I gave up.

So frustrating when updates are released and they don't work. Probably something simple, if only they would tell you.
I had a similar issue when I got a new laptop and the time was off so when it went to get the license from DIRAC it would fail because the license expired within 1 second, it work perfectly fine up until the filter processing verify your time and time zone are correct on the computer

Music System, NAD C658, Arcam P1 Monoblocks, KEF R700 Speakers, Wireworld Cables
Movie Room, LG OLED65C9, Panasonic UB820, Marantz 8802A, Krell S-1500 7 Channel, Carver A 705X amp, M&K MX 350 Sub, M&K S150's front, 4 M&K S85's for surrounds, sound treatments
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post #1447 of 1556 Old 02-10-2020, 06:09 PM
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The version I downloaded was 2.4.?

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Originally Posted by MoreVolume View Post
Did you download the new software and are still having an issue?
When I ran Dirac on 2/8, it said there was a new version and asked if I wanted to upgrade. I did and I had the problem. As you noted to Karvi, their web site says version 2.4 without specifying further. It also has release date of 2/7. Yesterday I installed an earlier version of the SW to get by.

I did receive a response to my ticket this morning before 5 am. Key thing it says is "We are working on this, expect a fix shortly."

I don't know how one can tell when they actually posted version 2.4.1, but it could be newer that what I installed on 2/8.

Karvi's success post lists as 4:21 pm my time. That is almost 12 hours past the support ticket response I got. My guess is 2.4.1 is new and fixes the issue.

I am unlikely to do another install and measurement for a few days. If support messages me that it fixed, I'll post that.

>>> 2/11/20 Update <<<
From Dirac support "Downloading the latest version from https://live.dirac.com/download/ should solve your problems now."

That version is 2.4.1! Plan to attempt loading project I made Saturday and see if can load a filter.

Weird happenings. I went to very same window I downloaded 2.4.1 from yesterday and got 2.4.0. I then refreshed and downloaded getting 2.4.1. Quite odd. They must have put old back for a bit
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Last edited by candor; 02-11-2020 at 04:17 PM. Reason: News
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post #1448 of 1556 Old 02-10-2020, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candor View Post
My guess is 2.4.1 is new and fixes the issue.
I upgraded from Dirac 2.3.x to 2.4.1 today, imported older projects / measurements / target curves with no issues and loaded to the C658 no issues.
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post #1449 of 1556 Old 02-10-2020, 11:18 PM
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Two things :
1. Ive upgrade to the Dirac full frequency , how can I know I'm using it ?
2. The C658 : When turn it OFF from standby , after a few seconds it automaticly turn ON again ...like a loop ..
Onlywhen using the back main switch to shut it completely ...
Any advice will be appreciated .
Thanks
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post #1450 of 1556 Old 02-11-2020, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ronenza View Post
Two things :

1. Ive upgrade to the Dirac full frequency , how can I know I'm using it ?
If you can move the right hand frequency curtain past 500Hz then you’re using it.
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post #1451 of 1556 Old 02-11-2020, 03:51 AM
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That what I have ...
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post #1452 of 1556 Old 02-11-2020, 04:39 PM
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Looks like full version

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Originally Posted by ronenza View Post
That what I have ...
Your correction window exceeds 500Hz so it looks like full version (guessing on phone or tablet).

You might not like the way you boosted the high frequencies from 9K and up. The standard Dirac curve would continue the line decreasing the volume of high frequencies. I'd urge you to make another filter without the treble boost to compare. You might also try the NAD curve (on their website) which is considered bass heavy, but I think less than the boost you have in the lower bass. FWIW, it might be easier running the Dirac SW on PC or MAC (pretty sure its easier to get a target curve file from web and use it in the app).

There are different standby setting on C658. I'd speculate one of them is reacting to something causing it to turn on (for instance your phone or tablet with BluOS app in focus and your C658 selected can control the volume with buttons). Disable them to see if behavior stops. If it does experiment to find what works best for you.

If having them all off and you still get the turn-on unsolicited behavior, Infra-red or IR noise can affect a C658. In my case I would get spontaneous pauses when my plasma TV was on. I worked around issue with 3 layers of masking tape over sensor. To test cover the sensor with a BD or DVD box (sensor is adjacent to display on the right). Note you need a good barrier, a business card is not adequate.

Greg
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post #1453 of 1556 Old 02-11-2020, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronenza View Post
1. Ive upgrade to the Dirac full frequency , how can I know I'm using it ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
If you can move the right hand frequency curtain past 500Hz then you’re using it.
Additionally you need to make sure you export that project / target curve to your C658 and have it enabled, all you've shown there is that you have measurements and a (very odd) target curve.
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post #1454 of 1556 Old 02-17-2020, 09:40 AM
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I got very strange problem with coax1. Only coax2 worked for me but after I found "https://support.bluos.net/hc/en-us/articles/360021056034" supporet article and disabled A/V mode, coax1 worked flawlessly. And sound got better.
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post #1455 of 1556 Old 02-17-2020, 10:52 AM
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Unhappy Goodbye C658!

Hi

I got my replacement unit today. I've tested it at the shop - same crap! The subwoofer output level is very low! Still scratching noise from the subwoofers when line 1 is selected. Still random pops and clicks. I'm now sure that this issue affects all units. I've asked users here to perform the subwoofer tests and only one user has confirmed the same problem. I've left the new unit at the store. I now have two choices: 1) Get a refund, 2) wait two more months for the M33 to arrive, and give it a try. I've contacted NAD support again and asked them for advice. I'll keep you updated, but it seems that the C658 experience is over...
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post #1456 of 1556 Old 02-17-2020, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by EB1000 View Post
Hi

I got my replacement unit today. I've tested it at the shop - same crap! The subwoofer output level is very low! Still scratching noise from the subwoofers when line 1 is selected. Still random pops and clicks. I'm now sure that this issue affects all units. I've asked users here to perform the subwoofer tests and only one user has confirmed the same problem. I've left the new unit at the store. I now have two choices: 1) Get a refund, 2) wait two more months for the M33 to arrive, and give it a try. I've contacted NAD support again and asked them for advice. I'll keep you updated, but it seems that the C658 experience is over...
Update your support request here with the same info - https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en...-app-NAD-C658-

More people need to be aware of this issue and pressure needs to be applied to BlueSound and NAD to fix it.
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post #1457 of 1556 Old 02-18-2020, 07:06 PM
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All went smooth this past weekend uploading the 2.4.1 and I love it! And I am not having the low sub-woofer volume anymore like I had, but 2 things seemed to have helped in my case;
1) Going from 658, 1&2 sub output into my L&R of sub amp input to going from line 1 of the 658 to my LFE amp input brought the volume up some, and it all sounds better omitting the crossover of my Dayton Audio SA-1000.
2) Adjusting the levels during volume calibration seemed to also have helped. I now have plenty of sub-woofer volume.
I have been tweaking my filters and my system has really come alive! Being I have a mix mash of drivers/crossovers I kind of threw together over the years, Dirac may do room correction but not very much on driver correction. It is taking some tweaking, but I am getting it and it’s sounding great!
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post #1458 of 1556 Old 02-19-2020, 07:54 AM
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Exclamation Subwoofer issues

Cant anyone else besides jb357 perform this simple test and report back?



1. Enable subwoofer output from setup.
2. Set the crossover to any desired value
3. Select Line 1, but DO NOT connect an RCA cable to Line 1
4. Connect a subwoofer to the subwoofer outputs on the C658. or connect any other amplifier with speakers to the subwoofer outputs, such as headphones amp
5. Listen while the master volume is above -20db. Make sure the subwoofer gain is high enough
6. Can you hear the constant scratching noises?
7. Connect an RCA cable to Line 1. It should drastically attenuate the noise.


So far, 5 units are affected by this. jb357's first and second units, my first and second units, plus a 5th unit tested by the local dealer. He told me that it seems that ALL units are affected by this issue. Today I was told that the low subwoofer output is actually a different problem that only happens with certain subwoofers, like SVS. The subwoofer level on a KEF sub tested at the shop was fine, even with the noisy units, but with the SVS SB2000, it was very low... It could be impedance mismatch related. But the random thud noises are still there

The shop owner told me he is returning all units and stop offering the C658 for sale until NAD comes up with a solution.

Please do the above test and report back

Thanks
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post #1459 of 1556 Old 02-19-2020, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EB1000 View Post
Cant anyone else besides jb357 perform this simple test and report back?



1. Enable subwoofer output from setup.
2. Set the crossover to any desired value
3. Select Line 1, but DO NOT connect an RCA cable to Line 1
4. Connect a subwoofer to the subwoofer outputs on the C658. or connect any other amplifier with speakers to the subwoofer outputs, such as headphones amp
5. Listen while the master volume is above -20db. Make sure the subwoofer gain is high enough
6. Can you hear the constant scratching noises?
7. Connect an RCA cable to Line 1. It should drastically attenuate the noise.


So far, 5 units are affected by this. jb357's first and second units, my first and second units, plus a 5th unit tested by the local dealer. He told me that it seems that ALL units are affected by this issue. Today I was told that the low subwoofer output is actually a different problem that only happens with certain subwoofers, like SVS. The subwoofer level on a KEF sub tested at the shop was fine, even with the noisy units, but with the SVS SB2000, it was very low... It could be impedance mismatch related. But the random thud noises are still there

The shop owner told me he is returning all units and stop offering the C658 for sale until NAD comes up with a solution.

Please do the above test and report back

Thanks
I performed the test with my SVS PC-4000 and heard very faint popping noises when standing right next to the sub. What's peculiar is that when I cranked the crossover from the C658 to 200 Hz the popping noises practically dissappeared. HDMI, Optical and BluOS are silent, and those are the ones I use, the rest are disabled.

With my previous sub Elac SUB 2070 I got "brrrr" noises whenever the playback stopped or when idling on HDMI. The SVS remains silent in these cases. The low output level is the biggest problem. I need to have the gain at -7 dB on the SVS to match the level of the main speakers. I'm hoping the M33 will have better sub outs.
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post #1460 of 1556 Old 02-19-2020, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by HRTF View Post
I performed the test with my SVS PC-4000 and heard very faint popping noises when standing right next to the sub. What's peculiar is that when I cranked the crossover from the C658 to 200 Hz the popping noises practically dissappeared. HDMI, Optical and BluOS are silent, and those are the ones I use, the rest are disabled.

With my previous sub Elac SUB 2070 I got "brrrr" noises whenever the playback stopped or when idling on HDMI. The SVS remains silent in these cases. The low output level is the biggest problem. I need to have the gain at -7 dB on the SVS to match the level of the main speakers. I'm hoping the M33 will have better sub outs.
Yes, I also had the exact same problem of faint popping noise with my SB-2000, but every now and then I get a loud thud, only when lines 1 or 2 are used. When disconnecting the RCA cables from line 1, I get the constant scratching noise. Did you try to disconnect the RCA cabled from Line 1 and check for the constant weak noises?


We need to keep reporting this to NAD support. They must let us know if it can be fixed by a firmware update or is it a hardware bug that requires service...


I've never had such a problem with a NAD product before.
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A serviceman who has replaced my C658 reported to NAD every described issues. In our country (Czech Republic) was my C658 the first device with this problem. But, the second unit has the almost the same problem - very simillar behaviour. In my opinion the bug is with the HW.
We will see more, I hope that FW will be relased soon, because I had to give up all the effort with fixed volume. After that I am going to make a decision... To have or not to have.
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post #1462 of 1556 Old 02-19-2020, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EB1000 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRTF View Post
I performed the test with my SVS PC-4000 and heard very faint popping noises when standing right next to the sub. What's peculiar is that when I cranked the crossover from the C658 to 200 Hz the popping noises practically dissappeared. HDMI, Optical and BluOS are silent, and those are the ones I use, the rest are disabled.

With my previous sub Elac SUB 2070 I got "brrrr" noises whenever the playback stopped or when idling on HDMI. The SVS remains silent in these cases. The low output level is the biggest problem. I need to have the gain at -7 dB on the SVS to match the level of the main speakers. I'm hoping the M33 will have better sub outs.
Yes, I also had the exact same problem of faint popping noise with my SB-2000, but every now and then I get a loud thud, only when lines 1 or 2 are used. When disconnecting the RCA cables from line 1, I get the constant scratching noise. Did you try to disconnect the RCA cabled from Line 1 and check for the constant weak noises?


We need to keep reporting this to NAD support. They must let us know if it can be fixed by a firmware update or is it a hardware bug that requires service...


I've never had such a problem with a NAD product before.
I have nothing connected to the Line 1 as I don't normally use it. I have already reported to NAD the low sub level and cracks and pops from the mains when idling with Dirac on.
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post #1463 of 1556 Old 02-19-2020, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVG74 View Post
A serviceman who has replaced my C658 reported to NAD every described issues. In our country (Czech Republic) was my C658 the first device with this problem. But, the second unit has the almost the same problem - very simillar behaviour. In my opinion the bug is with the HW.
We will see more, I hope that FW will be relased soon, because I had to give up all the effort with fixed volume. After that I am going to make a decision... To have or not to have.


I'm now 99.9% sure that ALL units are affected by this problem. The problem is that many users are not aware of the issue, either because they are not using analog input, not having a subwoofer connected to the dedicated sub pre-outs, or simply haven't yet noticed the issues, because their subwoofer gain is set too high.


It very hard to tell if it's a hardware problem or software issue. The fact that the noise disappears when the crossover setting is changed, or when the subwoofer is disabled from settings, may indicate a software issue, but the fact that connecting RCA cable to line 1 changes the noise behavior, hints a hardware related issue. I have a feeling that NAD engineers haven't figured it out yet. What happens if it turns out to be a hardware bug? Will they recall all units or offer a service?


I'm also almost certain that the long delay in Dirac's bass management enabled firmware is somewhat related to this issue...


We need more confirmation of the problem from other users here.
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NAD support update regarding subwoofer issues

This is the reply I got today (the good news - FW related + March update may fix some issues and add DL BM support, the bad: no timeline):

In regards to the C658 subwoofer issues: we can confirm that it is firmware related, and we hope to resolve it in a future firmware release -- however, please be advised that this will take some length of time and, as Technical Support, we are not provided a timeline on future development and releases so I can not say for certain when this update will become available.

Currently, there is a firmware update aimed for release in early March -- it should include fixes targeting some subwoofer issues, though at this time I cannot say for certain if it will directly resolve your issue.

I'm sorry I do not have a more immediate solution for you. However, if you have any further questions for me, please feel free to let me know.

Kind regards,
Sam R.,
Support Crew Analyst

Last edited by EB1000; 02-19-2020 at 02:28 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petri Aarnio View Post
I got very strange problem with coax1. Only coax2 worked for me but after I found "https://support.bluos.net/hc/en-us/articles/360021056034" supporet article and disabled A/V mode, coax1 worked flawlessly. And sound got better.

No help-problem still exists. All though little less frequency
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post #1466 of 1556 Old 02-19-2020, 11:03 PM
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My Update :

After connecting to my TV via Optic Toslink cable , Sound level very low .
When connecting to the Sat Box :
In a Few channels pops and clicks when Dolby Digital ON
Ok sound for PCM .

From NAD Support :

"We are tracking an issue where the Optical and Coax outputs via a Node 2i will prevent external equipment from going into standby, but RCA should still work just fine."

Anyway , Ive sold my C658 - Upgraded to another kit ...

Somehow a bit disappointed from NAD ...
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post #1467 of 1556 Old 02-20-2020, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronenza View Post
Anyway , Ive sold my C658 - Upgraded to another kit ...



Somehow a bit disappointed from NAD ...

Sorry it didn’t work out for you. Sadly the C658 is very hit or miss. That seems to be NAD’s reputation as a whole. I’ve had good luck with mine so far but my setup is very basic and I wonder if I had a more complex setup if I’d encounter some of the same problems. Sadly my system has been packed away in a box for 2 months now as I build up the courage and finances to revamp my entire music listening room. I hope it still works okay when I get it back out again months from now.

What unit did you choose as a replacement?
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post #1468 of 1556 Old 02-20-2020, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
Sorry it didn’t work out for you. Sadly the C658 is very hit or miss. That seems to be NAD’s reputation as a whole. I’ve had good luck with mine so far but my setup is very basic and I wonder if I had a more complex setup if I’d encounter some of the same problems. Sadly my system has been packed away in a box for 2 months now as I build up the courage and finances to revamp my entire music listening room. I hope it still works okay when I get it back out again months from now.

What unit did you choose as a replacement?
Mcintosh MC255
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post #1469 of 1556 Old 02-20-2020, 06:45 AM
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The popping / clicking noises are now present on my replacement unit. It was fine last night, went to bed, woke up and heard the popping.

If this was a software issue something would have needed to change to introduce the popping and that didn't happen. So I can only imagine this is a hardware issue that just takes time / burn-in to present itself.

I'll give them one more try with the March firmware update, but if that doesn't fix it I'm done fighting this damn thing and am returning it for a refund.
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post #1470 of 1556 Old 02-20-2020, 10:29 AM
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The popping / clicking noises are now present on my replacement unit. It was fine last night, went to bed, woke up and heard the popping.

If this was a software issue something would have needed to change to introduce the popping and that didn't happen. So I can only imagine this is a hardware issue that just takes time / burn-in to present itself.

I'll give them one more try with the March firmware update, but if that doesn't fix it I'm done fighting this damn thing and am returning it for a refund.
I have a feeling NAD really screwed up this time. It feels like a bad hardware design more than a software issue. Makes no sense for the scratching noise to change behavior when all you do is connect an RCA cable to line 1 when the cable is left unconnected on the other end... The C658 feels like a beta testing device.


I'll give it another chance until the next FW update. NAD insists that it is software related but won't give technical explanations. How come nobody else here is bothered by this? Most participants of this thread remain silent.
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