The Official NAD C658 Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 421Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 1018 Old 02-16-2019, 10:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stash64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Packer country
Posts: 1,690
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked: 225
^
I don't know for sure but, if I had to guess, I would say not fully balanced. It would require doubling up on all the internals and $1500 is not typically fully balanced territory for a pre-amp... though I would love to be wrong. I'm not too concerned about XLR being fully balanced on a pre-amp because my amps are not.

There typically is a difference in gain between RCA and XLR on the same device, but I thought RCA would normally have the higher gain.

Sean

Last edited by stash64; 02-16-2019 at 10:43 AM.
stash64 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 1018 Old 02-16-2019, 11:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
T-smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Posts: 1,126
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post
^

I don't know for sure but, if I had to guess, I would say not fully balanced. It would require doubling up on all the internals and $1500 is not typically fully balanced territory for a pre-amp... though I would love to be wrong. I'm not too concerned about XLR being fully balanced on a pre-amp because my amps are not.



There typically is a difference in gain between RCA and XLR on the same device, but I thought RCA would normally have the higher gain.


I don’t want to derail but the Oppo Sonica DAC is fully balanced and had an msrp of 799 and I believe the 205 was also fully balanced at 1299.

I don’t expect to hear back from NAD until after the weekend but I’ll going to see if I can find out before then.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

-
Upgraditus is a real disease
T-smith is online now  
post #183 of 1018 Old 02-16-2019, 11:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
tbaucom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 593
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 407 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by candor View Post
I'm doing it that way to 7.1 on Marantz processor. I'm using fixed of 17db into 7.1 levels within -3db /+3 db. That gets me close to other sources (you have to experiment).



I have an older 8003 processor which has pretty good analog section. So I wasn't too concerned that I'd get noise I'd notice. And I don't.



Going the other way thru c 658 would/should be cleaner for 2ch. But handling the sub(s) is a challenge. You could run L+R full/large from 7012 w/o sub. Attach subs to c 658 and let it extract HT bass. The down side is you can't use C 658 analog bypass as the bass management is in digital domain. But if you are unhappy with using the 7.1 on 7012 doing it this way might sound better.



There is a lot of flexibility


I actually thought about running the left/right as large in the 7012 with no subs selected and sending preouts to the NAD. The problem with this for me besides the additional ADA conversion to get crossovers is my subs are not equidistant. There is not any way to set different distances(delay) for the sub preouts on the NAD is there?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tbaucom is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #184 of 1018 Old 02-16-2019, 11:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stash64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Packer country
Posts: 1,690
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked: 225
^
I wonder if Dirac would set the delays... though, of course, it is very much useless at the moment.

Sean
stash64 is offline  
post #185 of 1018 Old 02-16-2019, 01:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stash64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Packer country
Posts: 1,690
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Working Remote Buttons

Here is a list of the buttons that are working for me. I wanted to check all of them before programming it into my URC remote.
ON
OFF
DISP (info)
VOL+
VOL-
MUTE
DIM
PLAY
PAUSE
STOP
BACK
FWD
RAND
RPT
All four NAV buttons (up, down, right, left) but not ENTER

It is really odd that "Enter" on the remote has no function. The enter button on the device also appears to do nothing, though the manual suggests it is suppose to complete a selection or sequence... not for me. Also perplexed that there is no button to toggle thru sources and no other buttons seem to work for individual source selection. Lastly, the manual states the four upper "device selector" buttons have no function on the C658 but it seems you have to select "BLS" for the ON button to work.

Sean
stash64 is offline  
post #186 of 1018 Old 02-16-2019, 01:29 PM
Member
 
candor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbaucom View Post
I actually thought about running the left/right as large in the 7012 with no subs selected and sending preouts to the NAD. The problem with this for me besides the additional ADA conversion to get crossovers is my subs are not equidistant. There is not any way to set different distances(delay) for the sub preouts on the NAD is there?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not at this time.

Several posts back was a pic of another NAD product (M12?) that just got a BluOS upgrade that allowed setting subs off, One, Two (stereo?). And also a slider to set a crossover frequency.

At present you can use BluOS app to set with sub or not. With sub setting limits low frequencies to L & R (to presumably > 80 Hz).
candor is offline  
post #187 of 1018 Old 02-16-2019, 01:44 PM
Member
 
candor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post
Here is a list of the buttons that are working for me. I wanted to check all of them before programming it into my URC remote.
ON
OFF
DISP (info)
VOL+
VOL-
MUTE
DIM
PLAY
PAUSE
STOP
BACK
FWD
RAND
RPT
All four NAV buttons (up, down, right, left) but not ENTER

It is really odd that "Enter" on the remote has no function. The enter button on the device also appears to do nothing, though the manual suggests it is suppose to complete a selection or sequence... not for me. Also perplexed that there is no button to toggle thru sources and no other buttons seem to work for individual source selection. Lastly, the manual states the four upper "device selector" buttons have no function on the C658 but it seems you have to select "BLS" for the ON button to work.
The Enter or Select on the unit works. You have to use it to reset MCU and BluOS modules. I think you can do this from the remote as well.

I thought On & Off worked in AMP mode.

And Play, Pause, Stop, Random, Repeat worked in the BLS (BluOS) mode.

In Amp mode the ScanTuneSource rocker on the left moves through the sources.

The first time I tried to program a Harmony hub, it didn't recognize the IR codes. On a subsequent try, deft quick presses worked. I don't recall about enter/select (not much use for it).

According to manual you could teach the C 658 to react to IR codes. The oddity to me was you have to have a remote with codes on it first (some old device you kept the remote for ...). And then you have to remember how you chose to map them. Have doubts many will use this feature.
candor is offline  
post #188 of 1018 Old 02-16-2019, 06:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stash64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Packer country
Posts: 1,690
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked: 225
^
Thanks for the insight on the source/tune/scan button with AMP mode. That is really odd though that we have to make different device selections to get different functions on the remote to work for the same device. Come to think of it, I do think ON also worked for me when selecting the "AMP" device. The sooner I learn these to my URC remote, the better.

Sean
stash64 is offline  
post #189 of 1018 Old 02-16-2019, 08:41 PM
Senior Member
 
chris431's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 28
For those with pre/pros or receivers that provide streaming capabilities, what is your reason for wanting to use the C658? And, does it make more sense to upgrade an older HT pre/pro to one with better streaming capabilities? Feel free to ignore my wall of text (setting forth the reason why I'm asking).

(1) Superior analog output stage for 2-channel
(2) Superior DAC
(3) Superior controls and interface (eg. BluOS)
(4) Dirac
(5) Other



I have an Integra 80.2 and recently purchased Revel Ultima Salon2 and a Voice2 speakers. This has prompted me to consider an equipment purchase to focus on upgrading the 2-channel playback. I decided to research both separate streamers (all of my music is on my NAS/I do not have a disc player) and new HT pre/pros. I'm not sure if purchasing a separate streamer (Pre/Pro L/R -> Streamer -> Amp; I wouldn't buy a streamer that doesn't have this ability) in this price range (again, not getting into the debate of whether price is a signal of quality) would provide me any better performance than spending an extra $1000 or so to upgrade my pre/pro (eg., Marantz 7705 or Yamaha CX-A5200) and using its internal streaming capabilities.


Back to the question:

Do you think the output stage (arguably the more important part of a DAC/streamer than the DAC itself) will be sufficiently superior to a high quality HT pre/pro?


Are you considering the C658 (or any streamer) due to superior user-controls (eg., BluOS) versus the streaming apps/controls of new pre/pros. Streaming performed by the pre/pro was relatively new when the Integra 80.2 integrated the feature. Thus, the app is relatively limited (play an album or a song; no ff or rewind; no queue or playlists (the biggest shortcoming). But, it appears that newer pre/pros have a lot better apps for streaming.


For example, T-Smith's current setup (Marantz 8805) is ideal for examining this question. Certainly the Marantz 8805 has a high-quality analog output stage. Perhaps even better than the C658. And, the 8805 DAC's are top-of-the-line DACs (iirc, a higher tier than the NADs (from each of their respective DAC designers). I would hope that the streaming app of the 8805 far exceeds the limit capabilities of those provided in the 80.2 and provides fairly decent options for everyday use (my research hasn't gone that far - Yamaha/Marantz do a poor job of marketing this function and reviews don't seem to address the function/apps).



Or, is it Dirac? Dirac doesn't seem to be too common in mid to high-end pre/pros (Integra, Yamaha, Marantz) and there is certainly a lot of buzz about Dirac's efficacy. For reference, my 80.2 uses Audyssey xt32 and the 8805 uses a newer version of xt32).


At bottom, I'm torn b/w paying a bit more to upgrade my pre/pro or going with a streamer such as the C658 (or other streamer in the same price range). Am I missing something that suggests the streamer will still sound better than the pre/pros I'm considering (Marantz 7705 or Yamaha CX-A5200). My initial hunch is that it will either provide equivalent quality or possibly even worse than streaming within the pre/pro. I'm thinking that in these circumstances, Dirac may be the only reason (which then begets the question that if Dirac is the only reason to go with C658, is Dirac sufficiently better than Audyssey, particularly if the newer pre/pro has a better analog output stage or DAC).



Thanks all. My first "high-end" (to me) component was an NAD receiver (NAD 7100) I received when I was 11. I followed it with an NAD CD player (NAD 5000). I used the receiver for 16 or so years until replacing it with my first set of separates. I've always loved the NAD sound and found their products to be great values.
chris431 is offline  
post #190 of 1018 Old 02-17-2019, 05:19 AM
Member
 
Solomente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 19
@chris431
It seems to me you probably either just keep what you have and buy a Bluesound Node 2i for streaming, or get an NAD T758 or T777 receiver which have BluOs built in, plus Dirac. Order from Crutchfield or some other place with a good return policy, just in case you don't like the sound.
Solomente is offline  
post #191 of 1018 Old 02-17-2019, 07:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
tbaucom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 593
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 407 Post(s)
Liked: 117
@chris431 For me, the reason is absolutely Dirac. That is why I won’t make a purchase if I decide to do so , until Dirac is added to the NAD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tbaucom is online now  
post #192 of 1018 Old 02-17-2019, 07:52 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 42
i want
a better DAC
DIRAC
XLR balanced outputs
subwoofs output
streaming

these should all add up to better Sound Quality !!! specifically, an enhanced and deeper soundstage, holographic image and better subwoofer integration. i wish the NAD or Lumin unit could run Audnirvana natively
wassup is online now  
post #193 of 1018 Old 02-17-2019, 09:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stash64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Packer country
Posts: 1,690
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris431 View Post
For those with pre/pros or receivers that provide streaming capabilities, what is your reason for wanting to use the C658? And, does it make more sense to upgrade an older HT pre/pro to one with better streaming capabilities? Feel free to ignore my wall of text (setting forth the reason why I'm asking).

(1) Superior analog output stage for 2-channel
(2) Superior DAC
(3) Superior controls and interface (eg. BluOS)
(4) Dirac
(5) Other
Well, I initially purchased Bluesound devices several years ago to be able to easily consolidate, access, and control my music library thru one simple interface. BluOS definitely does that and there is only one aspect that I think needs to be fixed. If you turn off the device, it does not remember where you left off. I've probably asked Bluesound to fix this half a dozen times, but still no memory for the last song played in the queue. Seems to me that this would be an easy fix and it appears the NAD does remember your spot... so perhaps it was more of a hardware issue.

For the C658 purchase, it was the combination of BluOS and Dirac. The overall sound quality of the Bluesound products are already very good and I was just hoping Dirac would take it to the next level versus Audyssey on my Marantz prepro. I wonder how long we will have to wait to find out (about Dirac) !?!? If I hadn't made a trade for the C658, I would probably return it and wait awhile for reviews and more feedback on performance.
wassup likes this.

Sean
stash64 is offline  
post #194 of 1018 Old 02-17-2019, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
CDLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dark Side of the Moon-Right Side of the Bay, MD
Posts: 10,692
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 2046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomente View Post
Just got my C658 yesterday. Is anyone else using it with Roon instead of the BluOS app? I'm having a lot of trouble with it. It plays for between 10 and 30 seconds and then drops out. This is on a wired ethernet connection and happens whether it's a Tidal stream or a FLAC from my local drive. Also, Tidal MQA files do not appear to be decoding as MQAs. I have the C658 setup in Roon as a decoder and renderer, but when I play an MQA song the MQA logo never shows up on the front display. If I use the BluOS app and play the same song, the MQA logo does appear, but never via Roon.

In Roon it says the C658 is “uncertified.” I believe that's because it's so new it might not have gone through the administrative process for certification with Roon yet. But I thought it would still work. Maybe that's why I'm getting horrible drop-outs and no MQA...??

Also, I've noticed a sort of pop from my subwoofer right before a source starts to play. It's not loud, so maybe pop isn't even the right word, but I hear a brief sound from the sub almost like it's being switched on, but if I pause a song and wait a second then select a new song, I get that same sound. The sub isn't powering on and off that quickly and it never made a sound before when hooked up to my Marantz receiver.

Jury is out on sound quality at this point. I'm leaving it to burn in by streaming 24/7 with my power amp turned off. Initial impressions with no burn in were middle of the road. My previous streaming DAC was a PS Audio DirectStream Jr, which is utterly amazing, so I knew this would probably be a downgrade but I was hoping only a minor one. I got the C658 due to the extra functionality of having HDMI audio with the module installed (for 2.1 stereo/tv setup in family room), for it's preamp functionality, and (eventually) Dirac Live. For all that I am willing to give up some sound quality but hopefully it won't be a lot.
I'm using ROON, perfectly.

All The Music In The World > NAD C388
CDLehner is offline  
post #195 of 1018 Old 02-17-2019, 02:00 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 2
The quote above from Solomente speaks to my dilemma. I am in the process of UPgrading not DOWNgrading my system as he has admittedly done by replacing the PS Audio DirectStream Jr. with the C658. I started with the Node2i as the features and BluOS app are very good, even the onboard DAC is fairly good. The streaming services are excellent, and as the DAC can be bypassed, it allows for a strong upgrade path.

Now I have upgraded my speakers and am looking to improve the rest of the components to match. I want to stay with the Bluesound system as I find it superior to the competition, Roon being a paid subscription exception that can be added later.
My dealer showed me the C658 and he was not impressed, he did not appreciate not being able to do anything meaningful with the controls on the panel, not an issue with me.

If NAD had a Dirac Live MDC module that would work in their Masters Series Preamp M12, we would have a high quality component with the functionality of the C658.

I may just feed the Node 2i stream to an Anthem STR, better DAC, room correction, great integrated performance.
I’ll check out the NAD M10 first.
Bobp2 is offline  
post #196 of 1018 Old 02-17-2019, 02:06 PM
Member
 
candor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris431 View Post
For those with pre/pros or receivers that provide streaming capabilities, what is your reason for wanting to use the C658? And, does it make more sense to upgrade an older HT pre/pro to one with better streaming capabilities? Feel free to ignore my wall of text (setting forth the reason why I'm asking).

(1) Superior analog output stage for 2-channel
(2) Superior DAC
(3) Superior controls and interface (eg. BluOS)
(4) Dirac
(5) Other
I wanted to improve digital music listening which needed better interface and features. Previous Oppo 95 into Marantz 8003.

A better DAC was anticipated (didn't want to regress).

Thought about deal on Marantz 7705 but worried it might not satisfy (though would have multiple feature upgrades).

From my reading digital music depends on timing between source and player/renderer. The source usually provides and the player has to sync to it. You usually better off if player/DAC controls timing (hence Asynch USB). BluOS devices mount file systems making it possible to let DAC control timing. At any rate I wanted to get away from DLNA servers for music on NAS.
candor is offline  
post #197 of 1018 Old 02-17-2019, 05:35 PM
mfb
Senior Member
 
mfb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Petaluma, CA
Posts: 401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 23
I'm racking my brain trying to figure out how to incorporate one of the MQA based streamers into my current HT setup. I think I'm going to swap out the C658 and just move to a T758. MY HT will get a nice upgrade/simple one box solution. I have Monitor Audio in-walls, they sound good, but not something I want to use for critical 2-channel.

I'll move my custom Hypex amps and look at this next level in DACs. Fun to be able to get back into listening again.
mfb is offline  
post #198 of 1018 Old 02-18-2019, 12:26 PM
Senior Member
 
chris431's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Thanks for all the responses. They're greatly appreciated. I'm looking forward to subsequent feedback from others once Dirac is implemented. Until then, I'm going to hold off on making a decision as to how to proceed.
tbaucom and wassup like this.
chris431 is offline  
post #199 of 1018 Old 02-18-2019, 06:35 PM
Member
 
Solomente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfb View Post
I'm racking my brain trying to figure out how to incorporate one of the MQA based streamers into my current HT setup. I think I'm going to swap out the C658 and just move to a T758. MY HT will get a nice upgrade/simple one box solution. I have Monitor Audio in-walls, they sound good, but not something I want to use for critical 2-channel.

I'll move my custom Hypex amps and look at this next level in DACs. Fun to be able to get back into listening again.
I'm in almost exactly the same spot. In my media room I am thinking of replacing an older Marantz receiver with the T758. I use Roon so right now I stream to the Marantz via Roon to a Chromecast audio. Having the T758 would give me BluOS which is a Roon endpoint with MQA capability. The C658 will go in the family room for a 2.1 setup. I bought the HDM-2 module so I can also use it as an HDMI-switcher and feed the audio through my 2.1 speaker setup. We listen to a ton of music in the family room so I wanted a good stereo system in there and again, BluOS will give me another MQA capable Roon endpoint. I'm hoping Dirac will improve the sound quality. If so, it will make a fairly ideal 2-box setup. NAD C658 as preamp/DAC/streamer connected to my Musical Fidelity A308cr power amp. I'm not aware of any other device that is focused on stereo that will also give me the HDMI audio and switching. I don't want to buy another receiver which may or may not sound better, and have unused amps in it - not to mention the space it will take up in comparison. And most pre/pros are ridiculously expensive for what they offer and way overkill for a 2.1 system.

I take that back, Arcam makes a stereo receiver with HDMI but it's insanely expensive and still has amps inside that I don't need. Fingers crossed Dirac takes the C 658 to the next level!
Solomente is offline  
post #200 of 1018 Old 02-18-2019, 06:36 PM
Member
 
Solomente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
I'm using ROON, perfectly.
CDLehner - are you also getting MQA to work through Roon? Via Tidal
Solomente is offline  
post #201 of 1018 Old 02-18-2019, 08:45 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Wheaton Illinois
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 84
I contacted Dirac via facebook today.

Me: Is there an anticipated release date for Dirac on the NAD c658?
Dirac: No, but it is running in our test room at the moment, so not far away
Me: Is it wonderful?
Dirac: Of course

95% of my purchase was based on Dirac so I am waiting with baited breath.
markrubin and Solomente like this.
iH8usrnames is offline  
post #202 of 1018 Old 02-19-2019, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
CDLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dark Side of the Moon-Right Side of the Bay, MD
Posts: 10,692
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 2046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomente View Post
CDLehner - are you also getting MQA to work through Roon? Via Tidal
Yes sir.
markrubin likes this.

All The Music In The World > NAD C388
CDLehner is offline  
post #203 of 1018 Old 02-19-2019, 12:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 19
A quick update on trying out the NAD C658

Hello folks

Thought I'd post an update to my earlier posted impressions of NAD C658.

When I bough the unit, I had really high hopes because the product feature-set checked all the boxes. The reality became clear soon enough that the product is still under development, and NAD support is not willing to share any progress or roadmap of features that are missing, that were advertised at the launch e.g. sub woofer options, Dirac etc.

Adding to that, I found the sound quality to be overly bright, edgy, clinical, and digital in my setup (YMMV). I also found that listening to Tidal MQA was more fatiguing than listening to Qobuz Hi-RES. Not sure why that is, or if I can objectively prove this, but sharing for what it's worth. Sometimes I thought that Tidal may have a higher dynamic range and cymbals / hats came out more pronounced - but who knows? All I know is that it was un-listenable for me and after 45 minutes of listening made me feel like I've just gotten off a long-haul flight. A bit disorienting, at times. Again, YMMV and I am sure there are multiple uncontrolled factors here from my equipment to even room setup. I am talking about my subjective experience only.

The logical thing for me was to reach out to NAD support to get some advice, and help. I sent them a short email asking for some guidance on taming the highs, and I got even a shorter note back to speak with my dealer ... essentially return it, if I am not happy with it. Not very helpful!
I did let them know that I was disappointed by the response, and eventually somebody did reach out to check gain setting in the BluOS app. But this is not fanatical customer support.

So, C658 is going back.

I am now considering Teac NT-505, or a Lumin D2. It's a shame that none of them have analog inputs to be a true preamp. The good news is that Teac uses AKM chipset, and Lumin uses Wolfson. My understanding is with all other things being equal, and decent output stages, both of the chipsets are more analog sounding than Saber ESS that NAD uses. I'd love to know if someone has used teac or Lumin and how they compare to C658.

I've given up on the idea of Dirac for now. I just want to be able to get back to the point where I can enjoy my music for more than 30 minutes without feeling nauseated by the sound of nails on a chalkboard.
audiocat5 is offline  
post #204 of 1018 Old 02-19-2019, 01:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
T-smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Posts: 1,126
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 328
@audiocat5

Which Preouts are you using, XLR balanced or RCA unbalanced? If you’re using balanced I’d recommend trying unbalanced as they do sound different and IMO better.

I haven’t heard back from NAD yet regarding my question if the Balanced Preouts are fully balanced or not but I’m fairly certain they are not.

I ran music through mine all weekend and after initially using Balanced Preouts I switched to unbalanced RCA on Saturday and haven’t looked back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
audiocat5 likes this.

-
Upgraditus is a real disease
T-smith is online now  
post #205 of 1018 Old 02-19-2019, 02:02 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I am using unbalanced pre-outs, as my amp doesnt do xlr balanced. I've tried changing a few cables including a silver coated copper, and while the sonic character does change, it never sounds musical to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-smith View Post
@audiocat5

Which Preouts are you using, XLR balanced or RCA unbalanced? If you’re using balanced I’d recommend trying unbalanced as they do sound different and IMO better.

I haven’t heard back from NAD yet regarding my question if the Balanced Preouts are fully balanced or not but I’m fairly certain they are not.

I ran music through mine all weekend and after initially using Balanced Preouts I switched to unbalanced RCA on Saturday and haven’t looked back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
audiocat5 is offline  
post #206 of 1018 Old 02-19-2019, 04:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
T-smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Posts: 1,126
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 328
The Official NAD C658 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiocat5 View Post
I am using unbalanced pre-outs, as my amp doesnt do xlr balanced. I've tried changing a few cables including a silver coated copper, and while the sonic character does change, it never sounds musical to me.


It’s interesting how the opinions of this DAC are all over the place and not just the usual difference of opinion.

I was ready to box this DAC up on Saturday to send back when I was using XLR Balanced preouts and before I tried RCA unbalanced out which I ended up liking. I don’t like BluOS though but not sure if that’s enough for me to return it.

I signed up for a free trial of Tidal just for MQA but so far not overly impressed although that may be due to lack of available music that interests me so I doubt at least for now that I’ll be keeping the service.

At this point I’ve decided to sell my Oppo Sonica DAC regardless but the jury is still out on this NAD although I like it better today than I did on Saturday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

-
Upgraditus is a real disease

Last edited by T-smith; 02-19-2019 at 04:41 PM.
T-smith is online now  
post #207 of 1018 Old 02-19-2019, 05:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stash64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Packer country
Posts: 1,690
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiocat5 View Post
So, C658 is going back.
I agree with most of your assessment. I was listening to Qobuz this weekend and the first hour or two was OK at low volume, but I did eventually get a headache... something I've never experienced with Bluesound devices that I have owned for about 3 years now. I had the same experience two days in a row with the C658. I suspect something is not right with the DAC's upsampling. It would be helpful if there was a setting to turn off any upsampling and just pass thru at the source's native frequency.

I'm also very disappointed with NAD customer service. They have yet to respond to my inquiry from last Thursday. Bluesound is much better. This is likely my first and last NAD purchase.

I purchased the C658 with a trade, otherwise I might return it as well. I will probably put my Bluesound Node 2i back in service and take a wait and see approach with NAD.

Sean

Last edited by stash64; 02-19-2019 at 05:28 PM.
stash64 is offline  
post #208 of 1018 Old 02-20-2019, 06:32 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Wheaton Illinois
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 84
I have not suffered the results of "analytical" reproduction but that could have something to do with my VTA ST120 tube amp or speakers - Goldenear Triton Five.
iH8usrnames is offline  
post #209 of 1018 Old 02-20-2019, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
CDLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dark Side of the Moon-Right Side of the Bay, MD
Posts: 10,692
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 2046
Any luck, Solomente?

All The Music In The World > NAD C388
CDLehner is offline  
post #210 of 1018 Old 02-20-2019, 04:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stash64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Packer country
Posts: 1,690
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post
A little bit off topic, but has anyone else noticed that the BluOS shuffle and/or autofill feature appear to be broken ? I noticed this just last week. If I want to play randomly from my music library, I will select any song and BluOS throws up an alpha ordered list of songs in the queue (starting with the one I selected). I then select shuffle to randomize the queue. It worked fine previously, but now it only queues about 100 songs. So If I originally selected a song starting with "A", I get about 100 songs in the queue and all the shuffled songs start with "A". It's doing the same now with the C658 as it did with the Node 2i last week... so definitely a BluOS problem, not a device issue.
Quoting myself, I received a response from Bluesound on the autofill feature and indeed they have made a change... purposely, but I still don't understand the logic. Autofill now only adds 100 songs and the songs are not random but in alpha order, starting with the initial song selected. You then have to select the last song in the queue to load another 100 songs and so on, and so on. And I believe all these songs will continue to be in alpha order rather than random. If, like me, you think this sucks ... please contact BluOS support and let them know.

Sean
stash64 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
nad 658 , nad c658

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off