Monoprice HTP-1 announced. (16ch, 9.1.6 Atmos Surround Sound Processor) - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 2108 Old 01-09-2019, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post
Glad you asked that — I’m in the same boat... know they are completely different beasts and the Marantz 8805 is probably more similar, plus the unit isn’t even out yet, and this is based on hypotheticals... which one is better... I’m still leaning towards x8500 given it’s known?
I tend to agree. The Denon 8500 has a slight lead for me right now over the Marantz 8805. However, this one looks very intriguing to me.
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post #62 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 12:12 AM
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"Q: What is the max unclipped Voltage output from the balanced outputs?

A: The max unclipped output is 24dBu (12Vrms)."

The quote is from Audioholics.

That's pretty good in my book. I don't know any amplifier with an input sensitivity higher than 12Vrms.
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post #63 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post
Glad you asked that — I’m in the same boat... know they are completely different beasts and the Marantz 8805 is probably more similar, plus the unit isn’t even out yet, and this is based on hypotheticals... which one is better... I’m still leaning towards x8500 given it’s known?
I take 16ch processing and Dirac Live over 14ch processing and Audyssey any day.

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post #64 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 03:05 AM
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Seems to me that 9.2.6 is the optimum layout, but let’s restrict ourselves to the 16 channels available which would allow 9.1.6. So that requires 15 channels of amplification. Monoprice only seem to offer up to 11 channels. Does anyone actually make a 15 channel power amp? Or is one expected to have to use multiple power amps?

Even if only having 7.2.6, that still has 13 channels that need a power amp. Any 13 channel amps?

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post #65 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by UKenGB View Post
Seems to me that 9.2.6 is the optimum layout, but let’s restrict ourselves to the 16 channels available which would allow 9.1.6. So that requires 15 channels of amplification. Monoprice only seem to offer up to 11 channels. Does anyone actually make a 15 channel power amp? Or is one expected to have to use multiple power amps?

Even if only having 7.2.6, that still has 13 channels that need a power amp. Any 13 channel amps?
For 13 speakers you can drive them with a single 13ch Emotiva amp like this: https://emotiva.com/collections/amps...14844442542123

The max number of channels you can get from the Emotiva modular amps are 14.

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post #66 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Jdogger7 View Post
I tend to agree. The Denon 8500 has a slight lead for me right now over the Marantz 8805. However, this one looks very intriguing to me.
Why does the Denon 8500 have a slight lead over the Marantz AV8805 for you? The answer to that question will very likely help you decide if the Denon 8500 makes more sense for you than this Monoprice pre-pro. The HTP-1 is going to be a lot more similar to the AV8805 than it is to a Denon receiver as you will need to add external amps to either the AV8805 or HTP-1 and the feature sets of the 2 pre-pros are going to be more similar (other than the number of channels supported).

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I take 16ch processing and Dirac Live over 14ch processing and Audyssey any day.
In general, I'd agree with that, but there's also the question of overall quality of the unit; things like the DAC implementation, build quality, etc. Assuming the HTP-1 is a slightly stripped down version of the ATI ATP16, which is based on the Datasat LS10, it should be very good.

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Seems to me that 9.2.6 is the optimum layout, but let’s restrict ourselves to the 16 channels available which would allow 9.1.6. So that requires 15 channels of amplification. Monoprice only seem to offer up to 11 channels. Does anyone actually make a 15 channel power amp? Or is one expected to have to use multiple power amps?

Even if only having 7.2.6, that still has 13 channels that need a power amp. Any 13 channel amps?
Most people end up with at least 2 power amps. Even with digital amp modules, much beyond 7 channels starts to make for a really large and heavy box if you want decent power output for each channel. But this is a big consideration if the budget is somewhat limited or space is tight as AVR's can offer excellent value, take up less space than a pre-pro and separate amps, and can get surprisingly close to the performance of separates. Consider what your speakers need for amplification as part of this - efficient speakers (like Klipsch, for example), don't require as much power as less efficient speakers.
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post #67 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

In general, I'd agree with that, but there's also the question of overall quality of the unit; things like the DAC implementation, build quality, etc. Assuming the HTP-1 is a slightly stripped down version of the ATI ATP16, which is based on the Datasat LS10, it should be very good.

GSR:


The prepro is not based on the LS10. The Datasat uses multiple SHARC processors. The Monoprice has a single (new) TI DSP.


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post #68 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereojeff View Post
The prepro is not based on the LS10. The Datasat uses multiple SHARC processors. The Monoprice has a single (new) TI DSP.
Hi Jeff - are you saying the ATI or the Monoprice (or both...) is not based on the Datasat LS10? Not sure what the different DSP's actually mean for the feature set and overall capabilities of the resulting product. A newer single DSP with sufficient horsepower could be as capable as older multiple chips, for example. It could also mean that the basic feature set is very similar, but the Monoprice has less room for future expansion. I believe you mentioned in the ATI ATP16 thread that they've changed the design direction somewhat, but it's not clear if the final product will be heavily based on the Datasat LS10, something amounting to a next generation LS10, or a radically different product.


But either way, in looking at the back panel of the Monoprice, there's clearly significant influence from the Datasat LS10. We'll have to wait and see what the actual product turns out to be; just because it looks similar doesn't mean the DAC implementation is as good, for example.


No matter what the final products end up being, I'm glad I went with a Marantz AV8805 for now. The ATI and Monoprice options aren't available yet and the Emotiva RMC1 is kind of a mess at the moment. I'll sit back and see how things shake out - if one of the 3 (ATI, Monoprice, or Emotiva) is a clear upgrade over the Marantz, has no major operational issues, and the price is reasonable, I will consider switching.
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post #69 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Hi Jeff - are you saying the ATI or the Monoprice (or both...) is not based on the Datasat LS10? Not sure what the different DSP's actually mean for the feature set and overall capabilities of the resulting product. A newer single DSP with sufficient horsepower could be as capable as older multiple chips, for example. It could also mean that the basic feature set is very similar, but the Monoprice has less room for future expansion. I believe you mentioned in the ATI ATP16 thread that they've changed the design direction somewhat, but it's not clear if the final product will be heavily based on the Datasat LS10, something amounting to a next generation LS10, or a radically different product.


But either way, in looking at the back panel of the Monoprice, there's clearly significant influence from the Datasat LS10. We'll have to wait and see what the actual product turns out to be; just because it looks similar doesn't mean the DAC implementation is as good, for example.


No matter what the final products end up being, I'm glad I went with a Marantz AV8805 for now. The ATI and Monoprice options aren't available yet and the Emotiva RMC1 is kind of a mess at the moment. I'll sit back and see how things shake out - if one of the 3 (ATI, Monoprice, or Emotiva) is a clear upgrade over the Marantz, has no major operational issues, and the price is reasonable, I will consider switching.

To be completely clear, I retired from ATI in 2017 and am no longer involved in their sales, product development or PR. I do know key personnel at Monoprice and ATI and made a friendly visit to their booths to say hello. I learned a little about both processors during my visit but as I am not actively in the processor market I did not make intensive inquiries.



The physical layout of the new ATI and Monoprice processors certainly resembles the LS-10. There are only so many places one can put 16 XLR connectors and a bank of HDMI's. However I do not believe it is appropriate to assume the internals are similar as we know the LS-10 is several years old and the new processors use radically different DSP solutions.



However, knowing Morris and his development team quite well, I believe we can assume any products emanating from this series will be top performers.


Jeff
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post #70 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 05:59 AM
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Don't need balanced if you can't hear noise.

My Denon x7200wa and Sherbourn 7-350PA combo (RCA to XLR connection) was made COMPLETELY silent by a Panamax M5400-PM power filter/voltage regulator.

I've had a tiny bit of hiss you could hear from the combo from about <2' away until the last month when I bought the Panamax. Now I can walk up to the speaker and not hear it. I don't have balanced on the Denon.
Yeah, but the Monoprice Pre/Pro only has XLR outs, so...

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post #71 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Jeff,

Am I reading between the lines that this may be an updated LS-10?

Not between my lines. I have no special knowledge of these processors beyond what I have already written.


Jeff
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post #72 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 06:43 AM
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any word from CES if the end user can do their own Dirac calibrations?
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post #73 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Jawaburger View Post
Yeah, but the Monoprice Pre/Pro only has XLR outs, so...
That really isn't an issue as XLR to RCA adapters are readily available.


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Jeff,

Am I reading between the lines that this may be an updated LS-10?
Just to be clear, I don't want to put words in Jeff's mouth here and given the limited info that's available at this point, most of us are just making wild guesses and speculating here. That said, I suspect it's likely that the ATI ATP16 is something along the lines of a LS-10 replacement (LS-10V2?) and the Monoprice HTP-1 will be a lower cost version with either fewer features or a somewhat lower end DAC implementation, somewhat akin to the Monoprice Monolith amps which are also made by ATI. I guess the big question here is if all 3 of these (LS-10, ATP16, and HTP-1) share the same product design and engineering team, which would make perfect sense with ATI buying out Datasat.



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any word from CES if the end user can do their own Dirac calibrations?
I suspect it's way too early to get answers to this sort of question, but I think it's pretty unlikely that a product sold by Monoprice would require a dealer visit for a calibration as that really wouldn't make much sense.
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post #74 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 06:59 AM
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No need for legacy inputs on something like this IMO.
I have just one system, I have don't have a separate 2-channel audio room. With all the XLR outputs I'm disappointed it doesn't have a single set of XLR stereo inputs and probably no "pure audio" unprocessed no-video path. But nobody seems to be doing that anymore.
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I have just one system, I have don't have a separate 2-channel audio room. With all the XLR outputs I'm disappointed it doesn't have a single set of XLR stereo inputs and probably no "pure audio" unprocessed no-video path. But nobody seems to be doing that anymore.
Marantz does, if you get their 8805 processor!

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That really isn't an issue as XLR to RCA adapters are readily available.
Very true, you can get XLR to RCA cables direct from Monoprice, which I use for my subs since they don't have XLR inputs on them. Thank you for the reminder.

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[QUOTE=gsr;57411588]Why does the Denon 8500 have a slight lead over the Marantz AV8805 for you? The answer to that question will very likely help you decide if the Denon 8500 makes more sense for you than this Monoprice pre-pro. The HTP-1 is going to be a lot more similar to the AV8805 than it is to a Denon receiver as you will need to add external amps to either the AV8805 or HTP-1 and the feature sets of the 2 pre-pros are going to be more similar (other than the number of channels supported).


Thanks for the question. I will be posting the same question later on which I should go with between the Denon 8500, Marantz AV8805, and Anthem AVM 60. Would love your input when I do. Seeing new options right around this corner like this makes me interested in possibly waiting. I am in no way a pro at this, so trying to make sure I make the right choice since it is a pretty big investment.

So far, I have a hard time seeing the value of spending another $3k+ on the Marantz (since I also need to add amplifiers) since I don't seem to be getting much more than the Denon. I could always add one amp to the Denon to power some of the speakers in the future and still use the other ones for atmos. I am still getting Audessey in both (and from what I hear it is not the best). This one gets more interesting due to Dirac since I hear great things about it. If I can do it myself fairly easily with a machine like this, then it may be worth the extra cost if it truly works. I may be using faulty logic, so feel free to tell me if I am!
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post #78 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 07:45 AM
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I am still getting Audessey in both (and from what I hear it is not the best). This one gets more interesting due to Dirac since I hear great things about it. If I can do it myself fairly easily with a machine like this, then it may be worth the extra cost if it truly works.
Yes, Dirac Live truly works and in my opinion is head and shoulders above Audyssey because it corrects both the frequency and impulse response.
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post #79 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 07:51 AM
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Thanks for the question. I will be posting the same question later on which I should go with between the Denon 8500, Marantz AV8805, and Anthem AVM 60. Would love your input when I do. Seeing new options right around this corner like this makes me interested in possibly waiting. I am in no way a pro at this, so trying to make sure I make the right choice since it is a pretty big investment.

So far, I have a hard time seeing the value of spending another $3k+ on the Marantz (since I also need to add amplifiers) since I don't seem to be getting much more than the Denon. I could always add one amp to the Denon to power some of the speakers in the future and still use the other ones for atmos. I am still getting Audessey in both (and from what I hear it is not the best). This one gets more interesting due to Dirac since I hear great things about it. If I can do it myself fairly easily with a machine like this, then it may be worth the extra cost if it truly works. I may be using faulty logic, so feel free to tell me if I am!
First things first - you need to decide on a budget. That alone may make the choice easy for you as a pre-pro plus amps is pretty much always going to cost more than a receiver for comparable quality. But you need to decide what your short and long term goals are, consider what the rest of your system consists of, and so on. A few things to consider:

  • I have no idea what you have, but if you've got relatively lower end speakers, it doesn't make sense to spend extra money on a pre-pro and amps instead of a receiver. You won't be able to appreciate the better sound quality from the better electronics if your speakers aren't up to the task. You'd be better off upgrading the speakers and going with a lower cost receiver. There is, of course, the option of upgrading things out of order; just don't spend big bucks on electronics if never intending to get speakers that can take advantage of it.
  • Even if Dirac can be calibrated by the user, it's probably going to be more difficult than doing your own Audyssey calibration. If you aren't very technical, this would be an important consideration.
  • The extra cost for the pre-pro + amps compared to a receiver isn't as much about tangible things like additional features as it is about better sound quality. The only tangible feature difference you're really going to see is something like support for more channels. But support for the latest and greatest HDMI and HDCP features and most other checklist items should be pretty much the same either way.
  • A larger company like Denon / Marantz is typically going to have more of the flashy checklist items and extra features than a smaller company like ATI. But keep in mind that some of those items (such as HEOS, just to pick an example) can be added with external boxes (again, HEOS would be an example of that). Given the choice, I would choose to omit some of the flashy extra features that can be added on with extra boxes in favor of things like a better DAC implementation.
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Yes, Dirac Live truly works and in my opinion is head and shoulders above Audyssey because it corrects both the frequency and impulse response.
If you have a moment, please fix the quote in your post to make it clear that I didn't write the text you responded to.
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post #81 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 08:02 AM
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If you have a moment, please fix the quote in your post to make it clear that I didn't write the text you responded to.
Sorry about that man, I didn't realize there was an additional quote bracket in there when I quoted the post.
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I would love to know if Monoprice will be offering any other pre/pro or receiver (didn't see anything in the articles that I read). I'm looking for a DIRAC solution but only need 5.2.4. I don't want emotiva and am wary about NAD and the others. I would have a bit more confidence buying from Monoprice.

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post #83 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 08:09 AM
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I would love to know if Monoprice will be offering any other pre/pro or receiver (didn't see anything in the articles that I read). I'm looking for a DIRAC solution but only need 5.2.4. I don't want emotiva and am wary about NAD and the others. I would have a bit more confidence buying from Monoprice.
My NAD has been trouble free. Hold your nickles and send me a friend request because I will be selling my 777v3 whenever the Monoprice or Emotiva goes prime time and the bugs are sorted.
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post #84 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 08:42 AM
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Marantz does, if you get their 8805 processor!
Oh yeah, thanks. And I guess it's not much more $$$ than the HTP-1. My Onkyo 5508 has died and I was hoping for something in that class (price range).
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post #85 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 09:00 AM
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Monoprice HTP-1 announced. (16ch, 9.1.6 Atmos Surround Sound Processor)

This one has my attention. On paper it seems like the right mix of features and price. ATI is also more likely to get the basics (bass management, for example) than the Emotiva folks. Based on history I don’t trust them to know what they’re doing. Very interested to see the UI and final features.
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Given the choice, I would choose to omit some of the flashy extra features that can be added on with extra boxes in favor of things like a better DAC implementation.[/LIST]
Good input gsr. Thanks. I sold my entire system with my house and am not building from scratch again, so have a lot of work to do. I did keep the B&W CM10 S2 left, right, and center. Thanks again for the input.
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post #87 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Jdogger7 View Post
Good input gsr. Thanks. I sold my entire system with my house and am not building from scratch again, so have a lot of work to do. I did keep the B&W CM10 S2 left, right, and center. Thanks again for the input.
Meant to say I am "now" building from scratch!
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post #88 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Jdogger7 View Post
Which would you rather have? Denon 8500 or this new one? I know it is a little apples to oranges, but I am in the process of upgrading, and not sure I want to spend the money on the 8500 if I just want to buy something else in 6 months. I narrowed it down to the Denon 8500 over the Anthym Pre/Post but this one now has me thinking. Thoughts?
Others have said it already, but this is WAY apples to oranges. When you factor in the extra amplification these come in at totally different price points. Conservatively you're probably going to have to spend at least another $2500+ on amplification with a 13-15ch pre/pro (e.g. a Monoprice Monolith 9ch amp for $2K for the 9 floor speakers and $500 for a cheap 7ch amp to run the overheads).

So you shouldn't really be cross-shopping those at all, rather the first question you need to answer is do you want a receiver or full separates?

If the the answer to that question is separates, then you are comparing the Monoprice to the Marantz 8805 not the Denon 8500.

Then secondarily you want to decide how many channels you want. The Anthem options are great and ARC is well reviewed but they max out at 11ch solutions.

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post #89 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Others have said it already, but this is WAY apples to oranges. When you factor in the extra amplification these come in at totally different price points. Conservatively you're probably going to have to spend at least another $2500+ on amplification with a 13-15ch pre/pro (e.g. a Monoprice Monolith 9ch amp for $2K for the 9 floor speakers and $500 for a cheap 7ch amp to run the overheads).

So you shouldn't really be cross-shopping those at all, rather the first question you need to answer is do you want a receiver or full separates?

If the the answer to that question is separates, then you are comparing the Monoprice to the Marantz 8805 not the Denon 8500.

Then secondarily you want to decide how many channels you want. The Anthem options are great and ARC is well reviewed but they max out at 11ch solutions.
Any thoughts on the Monolith HTP-1 paired with the Outlaw Model 7000x? This might be a nice setup.
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post #90 of 2108 Old 01-10-2019, 12:51 PM
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Just in case people missed it, this Audioholics article from yesterday includes an interview with Hobie Sechrest, Business Unit Manager of Monoprice, about the HTP-1: https://www.audioholics.com/av-pream...monolith-htp-1
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